Canadian licence fiasco
I just talked to TC and was told they are delayed again (late Oct for the first ones)
. TC will mail every pilot an explanatory letter and a copy of the application form. ATPL's will be converted first than CPL and PPL.
. TC will mail every pilot an explanatory letter and a copy of the application form. ATPL's will be converted first than CPL and PPL.
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Hey Ricky 1
In defence of Chuck and I really don`t know him, looks like the whole sand box thing didn`t work out for you kid. Ears open mouth closed. And in the future remember if you thought that CRM class was just AWESOME then pick another profession. When your busy busting a dude on his spelling the terrain is rising fast. Sorry about lashing out at you but there are many valid points to be made on the pprune forum and those with more experience than myself and you, do have some good info. Ironic I know that I waste time talking about this but I just had some clowns do much the same as yourself when I asked a simple question. Ans sorry I don`t know the difference between there and their please let me know if you ever visit the office of my 744. If I wasn`t board to tears hear in Asia and counting the days till I get back home then I wouldn`t post. So relax Kid and you may have a long and enjoyable career ahead. I got a smilie for you but it runs vertical and doesn`t fit on the screen.
Hamtarro Man
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Good advice, Ham...
I can hardly wait to hear the new fees for our fancy new license. Do you think they are going to be free??
Count on it being larger and more unwieldy than a passport - a case of Guinness says they never asked a pilot what he thought would be a good format.
Every time you add a type or other bureaucratic bs it will have to be reprinted or sent in for a stamp - Chuck's right, expect the worst at the highest cost. Maybe they'll transfer the medical fee to the license so they can get paid and we will have to stop thumbing our noses at them?
I can hardly wait to hear the new fees for our fancy new license. Do you think they are going to be free??
Count on it being larger and more unwieldy than a passport - a case of Guinness says they never asked a pilot what he thought would be a good format.
Every time you add a type or other bureaucratic bs it will have to be reprinted or sent in for a stamp - Chuck's right, expect the worst at the highest cost. Maybe they'll transfer the medical fee to the license so they can get paid and we will have to stop thumbing our noses at them?
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Quote: “.....was my place of birth. I'm sure having that recorded immensely improves safety and security.”
It might be more likely to cause your death! For people who were born in countries that are the targets of various terrorist groups it is not a good idea to be openly connected with such countries. Terrorists have been known to select execution or kidnap victims from passengers and crew on the basis of their obvious citizenship, including where they were born.
If you are from one of those target countries you should try and arrange to obtain a passport from a relatively neutral country that stands for nothing (Canada?) and ensure that it does not show your place of birth in the high profile country. The same applies to other documents such as pilots’ and drivers’ licences.
Another issue: as somebody who has worked overseas on a Canadian licence and been subjected to considerable inconvenience because there was no TC approved CAME or examination/flight test capability where I was based, or in any neighbouring country, has TC given any thought to providing competent and timely service to those Canadian pilots who are based overseas? With this new booklet, what will be the procedure at renewal time for medical, instrument rating, etc?
It might be more likely to cause your death! For people who were born in countries that are the targets of various terrorist groups it is not a good idea to be openly connected with such countries. Terrorists have been known to select execution or kidnap victims from passengers and crew on the basis of their obvious citizenship, including where they were born.
If you are from one of those target countries you should try and arrange to obtain a passport from a relatively neutral country that stands for nothing (Canada?) and ensure that it does not show your place of birth in the high profile country. The same applies to other documents such as pilots’ and drivers’ licences.
Another issue: as somebody who has worked overseas on a Canadian licence and been subjected to considerable inconvenience because there was no TC approved CAME or examination/flight test capability where I was based, or in any neighbouring country, has TC given any thought to providing competent and timely service to those Canadian pilots who are based overseas? With this new booklet, what will be the procedure at renewal time for medical, instrument rating, etc?
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Of course Transport Canada has thought of this, and they publish their policy fairly clearly to anybody who cares to read it.
You can use any aviation medical examiner overseas who is certified by the national authorities (if an ICAO country) to do the exam. Send it in, and TC will send you a new medical as long as the medical is done to TC standards and in good faith. The foreign examiner cannot stamp the back of your medical to renew it though, and it takes maybe a month to get the new medical-- that only requires some preplanning on your part, but that is part of what being a pilot, or an expat, is about.
As far as living overseas and getting flight tests, TC works on a cost recovery basis. They will send an examiner anywhere in the world but of course, you need to pay the costs associated with that, or you can get a DE to come out but I imagine he will want to have his costs covered too. If you wanted it for cheap or free, well . . . aviation is an expensive activity. If you want an FAA examiner or a JAA one, that is possible too but as always, there are costs involved in that too.
Canada is no longer a welfare country, although still pay a lot of money in taxes for Government overspending in the past. Nevertheless, TC does provide the services.
As for the expat aspect of it . . . well, that's a cost of doing business overseas.
You can use any aviation medical examiner overseas who is certified by the national authorities (if an ICAO country) to do the exam. Send it in, and TC will send you a new medical as long as the medical is done to TC standards and in good faith. The foreign examiner cannot stamp the back of your medical to renew it though, and it takes maybe a month to get the new medical-- that only requires some preplanning on your part, but that is part of what being a pilot, or an expat, is about.
As far as living overseas and getting flight tests, TC works on a cost recovery basis. They will send an examiner anywhere in the world but of course, you need to pay the costs associated with that, or you can get a DE to come out but I imagine he will want to have his costs covered too. If you wanted it for cheap or free, well . . . aviation is an expensive activity. If you want an FAA examiner or a JAA one, that is possible too but as always, there are costs involved in that too.
Canada is no longer a welfare country, although still pay a lot of money in taxes for Government overspending in the past. Nevertheless, TC does provide the services.
As for the expat aspect of it . . . well, that's a cost of doing business overseas.
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What Transport Canada’s policy is and what they provide are two different things!
In several years of living overseas I never once had a renewal arrive within one month. In one case the medical renewal arrived just four days before its expiry date and TC expected me to pay $55 for just those four days! In all cases I commenced the process in good time and had to send many follow-up communications, both directly to TC and through my MP. Fortunately I was not depending on my TC licence. I did have it validated when I initially arrived overseas but I could foresee the problems with TC’s well known lack of customer service. I took the precaution of obtaining a licence from the country where I was based. I wanted to keep the TC licence for possible future use. In any case, a true professional pilot should have more than one pilot’s licence, driver’s licence, headset, etc.
In the private sector in any contract or deal there is an implied covenant that the goods or services being provided are suitable for the purpose for which they are provided. There should be no difference for government. For TC to provide a medical renewal that arrives just four days before its expiry date and attempt to charge for this useless “service” shows that they have the moral standards of common fraudsters!
TC’s “policy” changes at random at the will of whoever is dealing with a particular matter. On more than one occasion TC after receiving a medical report stated that they would not accept that medical done by a particular doctor when over the previous few years they had renewed my medical more than once on the basis of reports done by the very same doctor. This happened with more than one doctor. The same information in the same format from the same doctors that they had accepted several times previously was arbitrarily refused. Sometimes TC claimed that the doctor was not recognised by the Civil Aviation Agency in the ICAO country were I was based and which had issued me a CPL, even though I pointed out that my local CPL had been renewed on the recommendation of the same doctor at the same medical examination that he used for supplying the report to TC, just as the local CAA had done with previous renewals. Two or three renewals by the CAA on the basis of a particular doctor’s reports indicates to any person of normal intelligence that that particular doctor is indeed recognised by the CAA. Doh!
I have always ensured that every medical report has all of the necessary information. This includes the doctor’s name clearly printed, the hospital that he works at, the full address and his work telephone number - international code, number and extension - so that if TC requires any clarification it can be done without delay. All they have to do is pick up a phone, dial the number and ask for whatever they need. Naturally they do not do this, even knowing that airmail each way takes three to five weeks. They sent ME by airmail a query asking me to obtain from the doctor and send to them some information that was already on the form that they had received! This came from the Senior Medical Consultant at TC, who is either functionally illiterate and unable to read a simple medical report or is deliberately obstructive. This sort of thing happened several times. It is just like the deliberate obstruction that appears in the Third World until one pays the bribe! Then of course there was the idiot at TC who thought that the African city I lived in was located in Hong Kong!
For many years now TC’s “written” examinations have been done on-line on computers. To anyone with any sense of customer service and above the level of a moron that should indicate that a candidate living in a foreign country ought to be able to do TC examinations such as IATRA, SARON and SAMRA at the nearest Canadian Embassy, High Commission or Consulate. They all have computers that are connected to the Internet. Just turn up for your appointment at the Canadian embassy, produce suitable ID, pay the fee and do the exam. Naturally such common sense customer service is not available from Canada’s government. Even private sector examination outlets for TC exams are not available in other countries. Contrast this with the FAA, whose exams anyone may do in Hong Kong, Dubai, Germany, etc! When I enquired at TC about renewing my Instrument Rating they were unable to advise of any Designated Examiners located outside of Canada. It is possible to renew FAA ratings overseas. There are FAA DEs in many countries and continents.
Anyone who is familiar with Canadian aviation will know that the sort of TC problems I have outlined above are common, whether one lives in Canada or overseas. The many posts on various forums by Cat Driver, Widow et al confirm that there are serious problems in all areas of TC and at all levels and that my experiences are not unique. TC is known for being incompetent, obstructive, evasive, uncaring and untruthful! I do know some really good people in TC but they are the exception. They must find it heartbreaking to have to work in such an environment.
TC’s track record confirms that they have given little thought to providing the COMPETENT and TIMELY services that Canadians need. You can be fairly sure that this applies to any overseas renewals involving the new licence format. The responsible senior bureaucrats and politicians must be delighted that there are some who are prepared to accept their BS at face value and who are willing to pay a second time for (sometimes not provided) services that have already been paid for through general taxes!
In several years of living overseas I never once had a renewal arrive within one month. In one case the medical renewal arrived just four days before its expiry date and TC expected me to pay $55 for just those four days! In all cases I commenced the process in good time and had to send many follow-up communications, both directly to TC and through my MP. Fortunately I was not depending on my TC licence. I did have it validated when I initially arrived overseas but I could foresee the problems with TC’s well known lack of customer service. I took the precaution of obtaining a licence from the country where I was based. I wanted to keep the TC licence for possible future use. In any case, a true professional pilot should have more than one pilot’s licence, driver’s licence, headset, etc.
In the private sector in any contract or deal there is an implied covenant that the goods or services being provided are suitable for the purpose for which they are provided. There should be no difference for government. For TC to provide a medical renewal that arrives just four days before its expiry date and attempt to charge for this useless “service” shows that they have the moral standards of common fraudsters!
TC’s “policy” changes at random at the will of whoever is dealing with a particular matter. On more than one occasion TC after receiving a medical report stated that they would not accept that medical done by a particular doctor when over the previous few years they had renewed my medical more than once on the basis of reports done by the very same doctor. This happened with more than one doctor. The same information in the same format from the same doctors that they had accepted several times previously was arbitrarily refused. Sometimes TC claimed that the doctor was not recognised by the Civil Aviation Agency in the ICAO country were I was based and which had issued me a CPL, even though I pointed out that my local CPL had been renewed on the recommendation of the same doctor at the same medical examination that he used for supplying the report to TC, just as the local CAA had done with previous renewals. Two or three renewals by the CAA on the basis of a particular doctor’s reports indicates to any person of normal intelligence that that particular doctor is indeed recognised by the CAA. Doh!
I have always ensured that every medical report has all of the necessary information. This includes the doctor’s name clearly printed, the hospital that he works at, the full address and his work telephone number - international code, number and extension - so that if TC requires any clarification it can be done without delay. All they have to do is pick up a phone, dial the number and ask for whatever they need. Naturally they do not do this, even knowing that airmail each way takes three to five weeks. They sent ME by airmail a query asking me to obtain from the doctor and send to them some information that was already on the form that they had received! This came from the Senior Medical Consultant at TC, who is either functionally illiterate and unable to read a simple medical report or is deliberately obstructive. This sort of thing happened several times. It is just like the deliberate obstruction that appears in the Third World until one pays the bribe! Then of course there was the idiot at TC who thought that the African city I lived in was located in Hong Kong!
For many years now TC’s “written” examinations have been done on-line on computers. To anyone with any sense of customer service and above the level of a moron that should indicate that a candidate living in a foreign country ought to be able to do TC examinations such as IATRA, SARON and SAMRA at the nearest Canadian Embassy, High Commission or Consulate. They all have computers that are connected to the Internet. Just turn up for your appointment at the Canadian embassy, produce suitable ID, pay the fee and do the exam. Naturally such common sense customer service is not available from Canada’s government. Even private sector examination outlets for TC exams are not available in other countries. Contrast this with the FAA, whose exams anyone may do in Hong Kong, Dubai, Germany, etc! When I enquired at TC about renewing my Instrument Rating they were unable to advise of any Designated Examiners located outside of Canada. It is possible to renew FAA ratings overseas. There are FAA DEs in many countries and continents.
Anyone who is familiar with Canadian aviation will know that the sort of TC problems I have outlined above are common, whether one lives in Canada or overseas. The many posts on various forums by Cat Driver, Widow et al confirm that there are serious problems in all areas of TC and at all levels and that my experiences are not unique. TC is known for being incompetent, obstructive, evasive, uncaring and untruthful! I do know some really good people in TC but they are the exception. They must find it heartbreaking to have to work in such an environment.
TC’s track record confirms that they have given little thought to providing the COMPETENT and TIMELY services that Canadians need. You can be fairly sure that this applies to any overseas renewals involving the new licence format. The responsible senior bureaucrats and politicians must be delighted that there are some who are prepared to accept their BS at face value and who are willing to pay a second time for (sometimes not provided) services that have already been paid for through general taxes!
Last edited by Carrier; 1st Jul 2008 at 20:36.
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For those here on Pprune who do not know who Cat Driver is it is a name I use on Avcanada.
What carrier says is only the tip of the iceberg with regard to the incompetence in Transport Canada.
However incompetence is forgivable it is the outright dishonesty and abuse of power that is so systemic within the top level of management at TC that is stunning.
To protect several of their own they ruined my company and made it so difficult for me to work in aviation in Canada that I was forced to spend the last years of my career flying outside of Canada.
Yes, carrier has only scratched the surface of the problems within TC in Canada.
What carrier says is only the tip of the iceberg with regard to the incompetence in Transport Canada.
However incompetence is forgivable it is the outright dishonesty and abuse of power that is so systemic within the top level of management at TC that is stunning.
To protect several of their own they ruined my company and made it so difficult for me to work in aviation in Canada that I was forced to spend the last years of my career flying outside of Canada.
Yes, carrier has only scratched the surface of the problems within TC in Canada.
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I don't have a problem with Transport Canada!
Of course, I'm a senior inspector at Transport Canada who will secure his government pension and enjoy his well deserved retirement soon.
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about...HEY!!!!
Of course, I'm a senior inspector at Transport Canada who will secure his government pension and enjoy his well deserved retirement soon.
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about...HEY!!!!
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So as a senior inspector at TCCA what do you think of the allegations this former TCCA inspector Hugh Danford is making angryblackman?
Urcombot - U R C O M B O T
Urcombot - U R C O M B O T
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Could be any one of them.
Of course, I'm a senior inspector at Transport Canada who will secure his government pension and enjoy his well deserved retirement soon.
I would imagine that retirement would be right up there on the job satisfaction list.
Of course, I'm a senior inspector at Transport Canada who will secure his government pension and enjoy his well deserved retirement soon.
I would imagine that retirement would be right up there on the job satisfaction list.
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skimmed the whole thread and...
Can't finger out why folks think that another hoop or 2 to jump through is a good thing.
I never fly without my passport anyway. I hate going to the DMV every few years for a new photo, and then to get a new health card and then renew my passport and on and on. My kingdom for one stop shopping and less bureaucracy...
I never fly without my passport anyway. I hate going to the DMV every few years for a new photo, and then to get a new health card and then renew my passport and on and on. My kingdom for one stop shopping and less bureaucracy...
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Yep, passport is always smart to carry... if you have an emergency near the border and you have to land, aim for Canadian soil. If you land on US soil, even in an emergency situation, ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
This seems like an appropriate thread for my rant
In December, I flew to Edmonton to spend Christmas with my son, watch some great hockey games in the World Junior competition and re-validate my Canadian PPL.
So in the balmy conditions that Edmonton was experiencing (above freezing!), I showed up at the Edmonton Flying Club, flew a 172 and a DA20 (lovely aircraft), wrote the PSTAR and got my logbook endorsed.
However I couldn't fly solo. Why not, you ask? Well, because I had assumed foolishly that my shiny new "Aviation Document" containing all the documents that I would need to aviate. I'm sure some of you already know where this is going
I didn't have my Radio Operator's Certificate with me! It is hard to believe that the two government departments involved could not have co-operated over this. Did Transport Canada even approach Industry Canada over this issue?
My Radio Operator's Certificate is now safely taped into the back page of the Aviation Document.
So in the balmy conditions that Edmonton was experiencing (above freezing!), I showed up at the Edmonton Flying Club, flew a 172 and a DA20 (lovely aircraft), wrote the PSTAR and got my logbook endorsed.
However I couldn't fly solo. Why not, you ask? Well, because I had assumed foolishly that my shiny new "Aviation Document" containing all the documents that I would need to aviate. I'm sure some of you already know where this is going
I didn't have my Radio Operator's Certificate with me! It is hard to believe that the two government departments involved could not have co-operated over this. Did Transport Canada even approach Industry Canada over this issue?
My Radio Operator's Certificate is now safely taped into the back page of the Aviation Document.
Last edited by India Four Two; 16th Jan 2012 at 13:31.
