ATC in Canada
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ATC in Canada
I am a TMA Radar controller in OZ and think it is time to move on (and perhaps up). To those controllers in the land of the Maple Leaf, would you recommend the shift across the Pacific? Do you enjoy the job? Are benefits commensurate with performance?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
CL
[This message has been edited by Chicken Lips (edited 02 June 2000).]
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
CL
[This message has been edited by Chicken Lips (edited 02 June 2000).]
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Chicken Lips...
Nav Canada operates the air navigation system in Canada. They are definately short-staffed, a situation that existed even when the system was operated by the government.
I can't speak to the benefits offered, except to say that many controllers are very unhappy with their current contract.
Anyways, here is a link to the the Nav Canada recruiting web-site:
http://www.navcanada.ca/publications/recruit/cover.htm
And here is a link to the Canadian Air Traffic Controllers Association (CATCA) web-site:
http://www.squawkident.com/
Nav Canada operates the air navigation system in Canada. They are definately short-staffed, a situation that existed even when the system was operated by the government.
I can't speak to the benefits offered, except to say that many controllers are very unhappy with their current contract.
Anyways, here is a link to the the Nav Canada recruiting web-site:
http://www.navcanada.ca/publications/recruit/cover.htm
And here is a link to the Canadian Air Traffic Controllers Association (CATCA) web-site:
http://www.squawkident.com/
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Thank you both. I'll look at the sites. From the research I've done the prospect is looking more and more favourable. Hearing from Radar people as to job satisfaction etc would be invaluable. I've had the opportunity to read the 1999 collective agreement between NAVCAN and CATCA, and it appears (from the outside) quite workable. Anyone working under said agreement able to comment? If you would prefer email is [email protected]
CL
CL
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Like Chicken Lips I too have the desire to move on and for pretty much the same reasons.(we work in the same place) I have the added desire of working in Canada as I spent a year working and living in BC and loved every minute of it and would give my left one to get back there. I shouldn't have left in the first place but getting married simply to get landed status wasn't an attractive option at the time.
Starting to think differently now. (want to help me out xward?) Seriously I have checked out Nav Canada's site and it appears that achieving landed status would prove the biggest impediment to landing an ATC job. Rumour has it that Nav Canada will be 1500 controllers short over the next couple of years. Will this shortage give ATC the critically manned criteria which usually allows Immigration and Naturalisation Service to grant landed status to those foriegners seeking employment in this area?
I would be most interested in hearing from any ATCO's in Canada particularly those in BC. I can be reached at [email protected]
By the way how are the Canucks and BC Lions going this season. I was there at BC Place when the Lions beat Baltimore 26-23 on the last play of the game in '94. Fantastic stuff. I was also there to watch the Canucks amazing trip to the Stanley Cup Final only to be pipped by the Rangers. Also lived downtown when the subsequent riots occured. Not so fantastic stuff! Can still smell the tear gas.
Starting to think differently now. (want to help me out xward?) Seriously I have checked out Nav Canada's site and it appears that achieving landed status would prove the biggest impediment to landing an ATC job. Rumour has it that Nav Canada will be 1500 controllers short over the next couple of years. Will this shortage give ATC the critically manned criteria which usually allows Immigration and Naturalisation Service to grant landed status to those foriegners seeking employment in this area?
I would be most interested in hearing from any ATCO's in Canada particularly those in BC. I can be reached at [email protected]
By the way how are the Canucks and BC Lions going this season. I was there at BC Place when the Lions beat Baltimore 26-23 on the last play of the game in '94. Fantastic stuff. I was also there to watch the Canucks amazing trip to the Stanley Cup Final only to be pipped by the Rangers. Also lived downtown when the subsequent riots occured. Not so fantastic stuff! Can still smell the tear gas.
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Working for NavScum is the 'pits'. They treat their controllers like dirt. Their motto is : "We're not happy til you're not happy."
While it is true that the staffing situation is critical, for us it only means mandatory overtime. Another thing to remember is that your chances of being posted in BC are slim. To increase your chances however, tell them that you realllly want to work in Newfoundland. That's the way they operate.
They recently commissioned a 'Climate Survey' to see how the employees felt about the Company. Among some of the nastier findings were that : Most would not recommend NC to their friends or family and; that most would rather work somewhere else given the same remuneration. Very unflattering for the Co. Their answer: "The results are in line with what we expected."
Remember, "the grass is always greener.....
navcant
While it is true that the staffing situation is critical, for us it only means mandatory overtime. Another thing to remember is that your chances of being posted in BC are slim. To increase your chances however, tell them that you realllly want to work in Newfoundland. That's the way they operate.
They recently commissioned a 'Climate Survey' to see how the employees felt about the Company. Among some of the nastier findings were that : Most would not recommend NC to their friends or family and; that most would rather work somewhere else given the same remuneration. Very unflattering for the Co. Their answer: "The results are in line with what we expected."
Remember, "the grass is always greener.....
navcant
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NavCant,
Sorry for the delay in reply, I've been away. The conditions you mention don't sound great. Do you work in Tower, App, or Enroute? What sort of overtime hours do you have to work and are you financially compensated for said hours? And what about the actual controlling you do? Is it interesting work? Email me at [email protected] if you prefer.
Cheers,
CL
Sorry for the delay in reply, I've been away. The conditions you mention don't sound great. Do you work in Tower, App, or Enroute? What sort of overtime hours do you have to work and are you financially compensated for said hours? And what about the actual controlling you do? Is it interesting work? Email me at [email protected] if you prefer.
Cheers,
CL
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Lips if you work for who I think you do, you'll find that the after tax salary for an IFR controller in Canada equates to your before tax salary at present, exchange rates converted. The grass has to be greener if you work at a salt mine in the 'boonies'. NavCant, you people don't know how lucky you have it.
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Bishop,
For the sake of discssion use
$100,000CDN to compare salaries. (With our recent contract, this is app. what you'll make in Canada after being in the TMA for 11 years.) This salary puts you in the 54% tax bracket.
You don't really mean that an 11 year TMA controller in OZ earns $50,000/year do you?
Additionally to compare the cost of living, follow the link below.
http://www2.homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html
For the sake of discssion use
$100,000CDN to compare salaries. (With our recent contract, this is app. what you'll make in Canada after being in the TMA for 11 years.) This salary puts you in the 54% tax bracket.
You don't really mean that an 11 year TMA controller in OZ earns $50,000/year do you?
Additionally to compare the cost of living, follow the link below.
http://www2.homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html
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Dawgweed, for the record I have a copy of the navcan agreement and an application for an IFR position being currently processed by YOUR company. $100,000CAD equates to $115,000AUD, $52,900AUD after tax using your tax scale. I know a terminal supervisor with over 11 years experience that earns around $54,000AUD BEFORE TAX at an international airport albeit a quieter one compared to Lester Pearson International and Vancouver. A team leader at Sydney might pull $115,000AUD but a reasonable house in a decent area within 'cooee' of the airport costs in excess of $400,000AUD ($465,000CAD), something that would cost under $270,000CAD in BC (I've done the research). Petrol costs around upwards of $1.00CAD per litre and cars 30% dearer. The ATCO that earns $54K works for an 'employer' that takes a dim view to 'ppruning' so I can't go into his specifics. E-mail me at [email protected] and I can expand if you like PLUS I can ask a question or two about working in your magnificent country.
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[This message has been edited by The Bishop (edited 17 June 2000).]
[This message has been edited by The Bishop (edited 17 June 2000).]
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[This message has been edited by The Bishop (edited 17 June 2000).]
[This message has been edited by The Bishop (edited 17 June 2000).]
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Dagweed,
$100000 CDN x 1.17 = $117000 AUD
which would be about $65000 net with our tax brackets
One of the two ATC providers in OZ pays well less than $65K for ALL online controllers, no matter the exerience.
The other provider pays from $70 - 120K depending on location, experience (not incl journeymen) and penalties.
*figures used are approx imates only
Cheers,
CL
$100000 CDN x 1.17 = $117000 AUD
which would be about $65000 net with our tax brackets
One of the two ATC providers in OZ pays well less than $65K for ALL online controllers, no matter the exerience.
The other provider pays from $70 - 120K depending on location, experience (not incl journeymen) and penalties.
*figures used are approx imates only
Cheers,
CL
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If I have gone into too much detail and confused everyone with my gibber, which I am often wont to do:
$50,000CAD (dawgweed's approximate salary AFTER tax) = $57,500AUD (the BEFORE TAX salary of a 'top increment' line controller with maximum benefits that they pay the 'alternative' providers of ATC in Oztraylia-Airservices australia employees get paid somewhat more). Before you comment on overtime and penalties bumping the money up, the 'alternatives' don't qualify.
O'Canada, O'Canada......
[This message has been edited by The Bishop (edited 17 June 2000).]
$50,000CAD (dawgweed's approximate salary AFTER tax) = $57,500AUD (the BEFORE TAX salary of a 'top increment' line controller with maximum benefits that they pay the 'alternative' providers of ATC in Oztraylia-Airservices australia employees get paid somewhat more). Before you comment on overtime and penalties bumping the money up, the 'alternatives' don't qualify.
O'Canada, O'Canada......
[This message has been edited by The Bishop (edited 17 June 2000).]
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Since I'm giving the top earner in Canada it would only be reasonable to compare to the top earner in OZ. The top vs top salaries are apparently very similar. The comparison then becomes cost of living and working conditions.
The Nav Canada Climate survey says....
The Nav Canada Climate survey says....
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Hey Dawgweed,
Thanks for the info! I checked your site for comparing cities and:
Earning $70,000AUD in Canberra, would need, to maintain standard of living, $93,000AUD in Vancouver ($80,000CAD, which happens to be what an AI-05 IFR controller gets paid, including OFP).
However, to maintain that $70,000 standard of living in Canberra, you only need to earn $68,141AUD when living in Toronto($58,480CAD, now we are talking, since Toronto controllers appear to be paid more than Vancouver ATC's).
If you think that Vancouver is more expensive than Toronto, Sydney is EXTREMELY more expensive than
Canberra.
can anyone tell me why is it 35% more expensive to live in Vancouver than Toronto, Victoria etc?
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Thanks for the info! I checked your site for comparing cities and:
Earning $70,000AUD in Canberra, would need, to maintain standard of living, $93,000AUD in Vancouver ($80,000CAD, which happens to be what an AI-05 IFR controller gets paid, including OFP).
However, to maintain that $70,000 standard of living in Canberra, you only need to earn $68,141AUD when living in Toronto($58,480CAD, now we are talking, since Toronto controllers appear to be paid more than Vancouver ATC's).
If you think that Vancouver is more expensive than Toronto, Sydney is EXTREMELY more expensive than
Canberra.
can anyone tell me why is it 35% more expensive to live in Vancouver than Toronto, Victoria etc?
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