Moving to the UK
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Moving to the UK
Hi all,
I have about 3000 TT 500MPIC Canadian ATPL and I want the ability to fly commercially in the UK. I don’t really care what I fly as long as it has a turbine or 2 pistons on it, so im thinking that maybe a full ATPL JAA conversion may not be required...but I am finding the regs to be a little confusing.
Anyone have any advice on converting/validating. Where to work? What to expect?
I have about 3000 TT 500MPIC Canadian ATPL and I want the ability to fly commercially in the UK. I don’t really care what I fly as long as it has a turbine or 2 pistons on it, so im thinking that maybe a full ATPL JAA conversion may not be required...but I am finding the regs to be a little confusing.
Anyone have any advice on converting/validating. Where to work? What to expect?
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Search!!
As mentioned on replies to some of your previous posts to have an easy conversion you need Multi Crew hours in a Multi Pilot aeroplane (in plain English an aircraft certified as requiring two pilots ie: not even a B1900!!!!) therefore you will have to do all 14 written exams, CPL skill test & IR skill test. You might get an exemption in having to do a MCC course if you can prove that the SOP's in your current job required two pilots....
As said before do the search function and also call a school such as CATS http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk/ or others who will give first hand advice....
With regards to work, plenty of opportunities to get going the minute your JAA licence is in hand. Lots of commercial single pilot operators who would be very interested I'm sure. Also, TP and Jet boys.... I'd recommend you join BALPA (British Airline Pilots Association) or the IPA (Independent Pilots Association) to get operator lists and employment advice.
The whole process is not cheap, not easy and a PAIN IN THE A##.... BUT does reap a quicker reward than compared to Canada at present and can pay a LOT LOT BETTER..... However, lifestyle sucks in comparison...
Your call & best of luck
JG
As said before do the search function and also call a school such as CATS http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk/ or others who will give first hand advice....
With regards to work, plenty of opportunities to get going the minute your JAA licence is in hand. Lots of commercial single pilot operators who would be very interested I'm sure. Also, TP and Jet boys.... I'd recommend you join BALPA (British Airline Pilots Association) or the IPA (Independent Pilots Association) to get operator lists and employment advice.
The whole process is not cheap, not easy and a PAIN IN THE A##.... BUT does reap a quicker reward than compared to Canada at present and can pay a LOT LOT BETTER..... However, lifestyle sucks in comparison...
Your call & best of luck
JG
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Hi,
the following is for an FAA but I think it should be the same for TC ?
For a FAA CPL/IR to be converted to a JAA CPL/IR (fATPL) the requirements are as follows:
To begin with you will need a valid Class 1 JAR Medical Certificate.
You need to commence your training by completing the full ATPL theory course. You can have two options: Distance learning which is split into three modules (approximately 3 months each) where we supply you with the Study Guides and with the support of web-based training and a one week refreshment course at the end of each module where you will be taking the theory exams.
Option Two is the In-House theory training (takes approximately 6 months)
For the CPL module you need to be able to pass the JAR CPL skill test, and you need flight training that is deemed necessary by a head of training. Usually candidates needs between 5 to 10 Hours.
For the IR module there is a compulsory 15 hours flight training (min. 10 in complex - multi aircraft) and also any extra flight training deemed necessary by a head of training. At the end of this course you will need to pass the IR skill test.
Hope that helps?
YYZ
the following is for an FAA but I think it should be the same for TC ?
For a FAA CPL/IR to be converted to a JAA CPL/IR (fATPL) the requirements are as follows:
To begin with you will need a valid Class 1 JAR Medical Certificate.
You need to commence your training by completing the full ATPL theory course. You can have two options: Distance learning which is split into three modules (approximately 3 months each) where we supply you with the Study Guides and with the support of web-based training and a one week refreshment course at the end of each module where you will be taking the theory exams.
Option Two is the In-House theory training (takes approximately 6 months)
For the CPL module you need to be able to pass the JAR CPL skill test, and you need flight training that is deemed necessary by a head of training. Usually candidates needs between 5 to 10 Hours.
For the IR module there is a compulsory 15 hours flight training (min. 10 in complex - multi aircraft) and also any extra flight training deemed necessary by a head of training. At the end of this course you will need to pass the IR skill test.
Hope that helps?
YYZ
Join Date: Sep 2000
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With the likes of Ryanair , Easyjet , taking dozens and dozens more aircraft in the coming months , flightcrew hiring in the UK is finally on the upside , and it can only be good for those with the right tickets - JAA UK ATPL (frozen accepted ) and , residence visa , better yet a full passport allowing EU residency. Good luck , with determination , patience , lotsa dosh , you`ll get it. This Canuck is happy here....for now.
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JAA conversion process
Hello there,
I just finished the conversion from a Canadian ATPL to the U.K. issued JAA ATPL last month.
The proces in a bit complex and very expensive. I have the required 2 crew time so what I had to do was the 14 written exams, radio practical exam, multi proficiency check and both an IR (IFR to us) and a commercial flight test. Both were done on a multi. To convert the IR a minimum of 15 hours is required prior to the flight test and for the commercial there is not mimimum requirement but I would count on at least a couple of hours. It sounds like you may also have to do the multi crew course to but I would contact the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) directly and ask them. You can find prices for it on many U.K. flight school web sites.
The whole thing is pricy. Each written exam costs £60 to write and you can either do a distance course (I did) if you have enough hours or an in class course. There are many schools that do that in the U.K. and in the U.S.A My distance course cost approx. £3500 including books. The flight training is very expensive if done in the U.K. I was paying close to £400/hr. The commercial flight test can be done in Canada with Moncton Flight College and the IR training but the IR flight test must be done in the U.K. I'm not too sure about the schools in Florida etc. Each flight test also has a £690 fee that goes to the CAA.
In total the conversion with out the multi-crew course and doing the minimum hours cost me close to $30,000 Canadian (£15,000). It is also a great deal of work. I did the whole thing in 7 months but I quit my job and went at it full time. The other thing with the exams is that you can only write them on the first 4 days of every month. Each exam has a set day and it never changes. The normal procedure is to write 7 exams in one go then the next 7 at a later time(this equals two sittings). You are allowed 6 sittings in total and a maximum of 4 attempts at any one exam. The exams must be written in the U.K. and one of several exam centers. It also takes 3 weeks to get your results.
I'm not too sure how easy it is to find work, I had an offer before starting the conversion. From the rumours that I hear someone with your experience should be in a good position.
The groundschool I delt with was Ground Training Services in Bournemouth U.K. It is a distance program and they were excellent. They prepare you very well for the exams. Other popular schools are Bristol and Oxford but there are many options. Moncton Flight College does the flight training in Canada and there are also schools in the U.S. and U.K.
Best of Luck
I just finished the conversion from a Canadian ATPL to the U.K. issued JAA ATPL last month.
The proces in a bit complex and very expensive. I have the required 2 crew time so what I had to do was the 14 written exams, radio practical exam, multi proficiency check and both an IR (IFR to us) and a commercial flight test. Both were done on a multi. To convert the IR a minimum of 15 hours is required prior to the flight test and for the commercial there is not mimimum requirement but I would count on at least a couple of hours. It sounds like you may also have to do the multi crew course to but I would contact the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) directly and ask them. You can find prices for it on many U.K. flight school web sites.
The whole thing is pricy. Each written exam costs £60 to write and you can either do a distance course (I did) if you have enough hours or an in class course. There are many schools that do that in the U.K. and in the U.S.A My distance course cost approx. £3500 including books. The flight training is very expensive if done in the U.K. I was paying close to £400/hr. The commercial flight test can be done in Canada with Moncton Flight College and the IR training but the IR flight test must be done in the U.K. I'm not too sure about the schools in Florida etc. Each flight test also has a £690 fee that goes to the CAA.
In total the conversion with out the multi-crew course and doing the minimum hours cost me close to $30,000 Canadian (£15,000). It is also a great deal of work. I did the whole thing in 7 months but I quit my job and went at it full time. The other thing with the exams is that you can only write them on the first 4 days of every month. Each exam has a set day and it never changes. The normal procedure is to write 7 exams in one go then the next 7 at a later time(this equals two sittings). You are allowed 6 sittings in total and a maximum of 4 attempts at any one exam. The exams must be written in the U.K. and one of several exam centers. It also takes 3 weeks to get your results.
I'm not too sure how easy it is to find work, I had an offer before starting the conversion. From the rumours that I hear someone with your experience should be in a good position.
The groundschool I delt with was Ground Training Services in Bournemouth U.K. It is a distance program and they were excellent. They prepare you very well for the exams. Other popular schools are Bristol and Oxford but there are many options. Moncton Flight College does the flight training in Canada and there are also schools in the U.S. and U.K.
Best of Luck
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Moving to the UK was the best thing I could have done for my career hands down. Been here 3 years in March and have had nothing short of a rocket booster strapped to my back in terms of career progression. Made it to BA, loving it and making an absolute fortune compared to my mates back in Canada (including AC an WJ). Would do it again in a heart beat no questions asked.
My advice to anyone trying to do it is this. You must give 110% from day one through until completon, including finding employmet. Do this and you will succeed. Canadian aviation experience is highly regarded here and I am pleased to say that from week to week I hear more and more voices from home on the air.
Good luck to all and never doubt its a bad move!!
My advice to anyone trying to do it is this. You must give 110% from day one through until completon, including finding employmet. Do this and you will succeed. Canadian aviation experience is highly regarded here and I am pleased to say that from week to week I hear more and more voices from home on the air.
Good luck to all and never doubt its a bad move!!
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Its nice to hear that other people have had good experiences coming to the UK. The process seems a bit more complicated now than back in 1990 when I came (from Toronto Airways, Buttonville) but it is worth it.
I keep thinking its time to go back but a quick look at salaries etc holds me here. Still my current company is starting flying to Hamiliton next year and onward to Calgary and Vancouver so I am holding out for a Canadian Base! You never know in this industry!!
I keep thinking its time to go back but a quick look at salaries etc holds me here. Still my current company is starting flying to Hamiliton next year and onward to Calgary and Vancouver so I am holding out for a Canadian Base! You never know in this industry!!
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While on the topic of conversion from ATPL to JAA, a quick question came to mind. Ater you are issued your UK License. Are you still able to keep your canadian ATPL aswell? in other words, once done the conversion, do you have both lisences? or just the JAA. thanks
Aaron
Aaron
While it is subject to medical and IFR currency requirements, once you have your ATPL, it is yours to keep. You are not de-qualified by getting another license.
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Canada CPL ME/IR > UK (f)ATPL?
I am also here in Canada looking at the conversion - my limitation is that I would only get the JAA frozen ATPL - my current hours approx 1200TT (500 PIC of which 300MPIC) I am wondering if this is too little time to justify the cost yet? Not too sure whether I would get hired in the UK with this kind of time. (I am a dual national)
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Yes, you would get hired with this kind of time. Yes, it is worth the expense. Just get the licence, get the job and then unfreeze the ATPL. This is a country where people with the basic licence, no experience, get RHS jobs in big jets.
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Considering the Move
Hi All,
I am currently flying a light Twin in Northern Canada and sitting around 1100 Hrs. My plan is this.....obtain my CDN ATPL and a bunch of Multi-PIC over the next year or so. I am then planning on moving over to the UK and doing the Licence conversion at around 2500TT. I see more potential for career progression in the UK compared to Canada, and having read all these forums it seems like the right choice for me. I hold Dual citizinship Canada/UK and a 4 Year University Degree (Business Administration). Do you think I'm better off racking up some more PIC hours up here and then going over, or would I be better off going sooner? What do you all think of this plan? Thank you in advance for any comments!
I am currently flying a light Twin in Northern Canada and sitting around 1100 Hrs. My plan is this.....obtain my CDN ATPL and a bunch of Multi-PIC over the next year or so. I am then planning on moving over to the UK and doing the Licence conversion at around 2500TT. I see more potential for career progression in the UK compared to Canada, and having read all these forums it seems like the right choice for me. I hold Dual citizinship Canada/UK and a 4 Year University Degree (Business Administration). Do you think I'm better off racking up some more PIC hours up here and then going over, or would I be better off going sooner? What do you all think of this plan? Thank you in advance for any comments!
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I came to the UK with 1325 TT straight onto a SD 360 RHS, 13 month later RHS 737-300-400-500, 5 later Years LHS 737 Exams were a pain though.
can't guarantee the same would happen for another but it gives you an idea of the possibilities.
can't guarantee the same would happen for another but it gives you an idea of the possibilities.
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WestCoast,
Your predicament is almost exactly the same as mine - (my hours just under 1100, 800 multi, 320 MPIC)
The feedback I have been getting from the UK regarding what you are proposing is on the whole positive. There are a lot of 250-300hr guys who are just out of flight school looking for work, so your line experience and multi time will help you a lot. As for staying in Canada until 2000hrs+ and your ATPL, thats a tough one. If you can get some turbine time, then it may be worth it. The flipside of the argument is apparently if you come over with too much time (but no jet time) then some companies find it a bit hard to pigeon hole you - you are too experienced to be a RHS driver but not necessarily experienced enough to go Captain on particular type. In fact, I have heard that around 1000-1500hrs TT is a good ball park figure of hours to hop on over to the UK and get going on the conversion.
I wonder where you are in the north? (West Coast?) Are you driving Ho's up there?
Cheers,
F19.
Your predicament is almost exactly the same as mine - (my hours just under 1100, 800 multi, 320 MPIC)
The feedback I have been getting from the UK regarding what you are proposing is on the whole positive. There are a lot of 250-300hr guys who are just out of flight school looking for work, so your line experience and multi time will help you a lot. As for staying in Canada until 2000hrs+ and your ATPL, thats a tough one. If you can get some turbine time, then it may be worth it. The flipside of the argument is apparently if you come over with too much time (but no jet time) then some companies find it a bit hard to pigeon hole you - you are too experienced to be a RHS driver but not necessarily experienced enough to go Captain on particular type. In fact, I have heard that around 1000-1500hrs TT is a good ball park figure of hours to hop on over to the UK and get going on the conversion.
I wonder where you are in the north? (West Coast?) Are you driving Ho's up there?
Cheers,
F19.
