Canadian PM Dumps Pilot after request to turn off cellphone and Blackberry
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Canadian PM Dumps Pilot after request to turn off cellphone and Blackberry
Globe and Mail Article (free registration required) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../?query=bytown
I expect Canadian Aviation Regulations 602.08, 705.40(4), 725.40(3), 704.33(5), 724.33(3), 703.38(3), 723.38(3) will shortly be redrafted so the the Prime Minister is no longer inconvenienced
The unwritten bylaw of Bytown: Fall in line or fall out of favour ... on a recent trip, the Prime Minister was asked by a flight attendant to turn off his cellphone and BlackBerry. Mr. Harper declined. The pilot then made a request, saying it was for safety purposes. The PM relented. But, at the end of the journey, one of his staffers gave the pilot some news: His services would no longer be required on prime ministerial trips.
The aviator should have known that this is the new Ottawa. In Harpertown, you fall in line or fall from favour.
The aviator should have known that this is the new Ottawa. In Harpertown, you fall in line or fall from favour.
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I've seen numerous people using Blackberrys while taxiing and takeoff and it does not seem to impact the flight.
Isn't there only one documented instance where a cell phone/transmitting device interfered with the avionics -- that too when the instrument was in a cargo hold.
Isn't there only one documented instance where a cell phone/transmitting device interfered with the avionics -- that too when the instrument was in a cargo hold.
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Man, I never knew that as a CAPTAIN I was God!
Maybe Canada should get a proper aircraft for their elected leader.
Doesn't have to be a bloody 747, maybe a Global Express? It is built in Canada.
Maybe Canada should get a proper aircraft for their elected leader.
Doesn't have to be a bloody 747, maybe a Global Express? It is built in Canada.
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Harper is the PM. That doesn't mean he is not a micro-managing prat.
The aircraft is a specially outfitted military A310. I've been onboard. It's semi-posh. The flight crews are military.
The aircraft is a specially outfitted military A310. I've been onboard. It's semi-posh. The flight crews are military.
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Ok, so now phone calls are more important than aircraft safety (in the PM's eyes!) ... don't cha just love it! ... unless the phone itself was designed and permitted for use during a flight (which I doubt).
He obviously thinks he's above everyone else (in the clouds), but not when it comes to safety. Looks like this PM will find out possibly the hard way!
Why we're at it, why not allow all passengers to use mobiles as well?
The Captain made the right decision, I would have done the same.
He obviously thinks he's above everyone else (in the clouds), but not when it comes to safety. Looks like this PM will find out possibly the hard way!
Why we're at it, why not allow all passengers to use mobiles as well?
The Captain made the right decision, I would have done the same.
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Might encourage him to put some flight-safe comms on board the CAF VIP fleet??
What a prat. Really helps anyone in authority trying to get someone to comply with a reasonable request. I hope this gets bigger airplay in Canada and he's forced to publicly apologise to the pilot concerned.
Back in the '80s the then Australian PM was filmed in his (moving) VIP limo not wearing a seat belt
... it made the press and he quickly 'fessed up and paid the fine. Can't recall if his driver lost any points, though.
What a prat. Really helps anyone in authority trying to get someone to comply with a reasonable request. I hope this gets bigger airplay in Canada and he's forced to publicly apologise to the pilot concerned.
Back in the '80s the then Australian PM was filmed in his (moving) VIP limo not wearing a seat belt
... it made the press and he quickly 'fessed up and paid the fine. Can't recall if his driver lost any points, though.
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Well Done Skip.
Services no longer required ?? Perfect. Some bu@@er else can have the inconvenience of transporting this prat around. Now if everyone did this, he would have to travel by road. That may persuade him to change his behaviour.
Services no longer required ?? Perfect. Some bu@@er else can have the inconvenience of transporting this prat around. Now if everyone did this, he would have to travel by road. That may persuade him to change his behaviour.
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Originally Posted by shon7
I've seen numerous people using Blackberrys while taxiing and takeoff and it does not seem to impact the flight.
Isn't there only one documented instance where a cell phone/transmitting device interfered with the avionics -- that too when the instrument was in a cargo hold.
Isn't there only one documented instance where a cell phone/transmitting device interfered with the avionics -- that too when the instrument was in a cargo hold.
if my minds didn´t fails me, there was a few years ago a story in the Flight Int´l about cell phones and false fire warnings on board from Dash 8-4000 a few years ago.
When SAS introduced the de Haviland Dash 8-4000, there were several inflight cargo bay fire alarms. In all cases, after the subsequent emergency landings, it turned out that they were false.
The technical staff tried to figure out, what might triggered this this alarms. After a long, fruitless search, one SAS engineer was in the cargo bay (or room, what ever, as SLF I´ve never been in this part of a Dash 8), when his cell phone rang. And, in the same moment, the fire alarm was triggered, too.
That´s the story, as I remember it.
With regards
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Originally Posted by shon7
I've seen numerous people using Blackberrys while taxiing and takeoff and it does not seem to impact the flight.
Isn't there only one documented instance where a cell phone/transmitting device interfered with the avionics -- that too when the instrument was in a cargo hold.
Isn't there only one documented instance where a cell phone/transmitting device interfered with the avionics -- that too when the instrument was in a cargo hold.
).ATEOTD it's not allowed, so that's the rule and it should be followed. Just because you've seen numerous people using those horrible little enslavement devices doesn't mean it's ok
. So have I and I've no problem in telling such people to turn them off. Are they really so important that they can't wait until we're on stand?Moreover in this case it's a rule promulgated by the Canadian Government of which this
is the head; he should be following his government's own rules.
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PM Arrogance
It seems to me that the technical rationale for the rule, while a valid discussion on its own, is not the only primary issue here. Rather, it is the difficulty VIP flight crews have in exercising safety authority and the related arrogance of VIPs.
The event shows that Canada’s Prime Minister (elected primarily on an accountability and law and order platform) believes that he is above all rules. Unfortunately, extensive precedent shows that such Canadian politicos’ attitudes towards flight crew are widespread.
During the late ‘90s, heard of a well known but hushed up incident wherein the military captain of an air force Challenger VIP jet was nearly turfed in similar fashion. He had had the temerity to tell the Prime Minister’s aide that the aircraft could not land at the intended destination due to weather. Said aide not only did not accept this decision, but insisted via a loud and arrogant hissy fit that the aide would make such decisions, and the captain should land forthwith. The captain stood his ground. Only the steadfastness of the VIP squadron CO allowed him to keep his position.
Another famous case was that of the incident in the late ‘80s when the PM’s wife discovered in Toronto that she had left her extra shoes back in Ottawa, and ordered the aircraft to go back and pick them up. The captain was resourceful enough to quickly decide that the aircraft was unserviceable, and an RCMP officer was duly delegated to find a Toronto shoe store and find replacement shoes.
It was around that time that it became practice for a “shadow” aircraft to follow the PM around in case the primary became unavailable.
I suspect that other nations have similar problems with their VIP flights, but Canada does seem to have a poor track record.
The only spot of sunshine in this incident is that, since it made the national press, at least some letter writers were able to draw conclusions about the character of the PM.
The event shows that Canada’s Prime Minister (elected primarily on an accountability and law and order platform) believes that he is above all rules. Unfortunately, extensive precedent shows that such Canadian politicos’ attitudes towards flight crew are widespread.
During the late ‘90s, heard of a well known but hushed up incident wherein the military captain of an air force Challenger VIP jet was nearly turfed in similar fashion. He had had the temerity to tell the Prime Minister’s aide that the aircraft could not land at the intended destination due to weather. Said aide not only did not accept this decision, but insisted via a loud and arrogant hissy fit that the aide would make such decisions, and the captain should land forthwith. The captain stood his ground. Only the steadfastness of the VIP squadron CO allowed him to keep his position.
Another famous case was that of the incident in the late ‘80s when the PM’s wife discovered in Toronto that she had left her extra shoes back in Ottawa, and ordered the aircraft to go back and pick them up. The captain was resourceful enough to quickly decide that the aircraft was unserviceable, and an RCMP officer was duly delegated to find a Toronto shoe store and find replacement shoes.
It was around that time that it became practice for a “shadow” aircraft to follow the PM around in case the primary became unavailable.
I suspect that other nations have similar problems with their VIP flights, but Canada does seem to have a poor track record.
The only spot of sunshine in this incident is that, since it made the national press, at least some letter writers were able to draw conclusions about the character of the PM.
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Did anyone notice that the report didn't give names or specifics of the alleged incident? Unless the reporter is willing to give more details, I would treat this as hearsay and nothing more.
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I couldn't agree more that this smacks of a lot of rubbish. There is also alot of ignorance being shown here too. Is Harper an aide to the PM? Good God come on guys let us learn abit about your northern neighbour !!
For those who care, here is the link to 412 Sqn who is the VIP Sqn for Canada.
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/8wi...dron/412_e.asp
For those who wish to slam Harper I would say that he is the best PM Canada has had for quite sometime. He stands up for what he believes instead of dithering about like some headless cockroach!
For those who care, here is the link to 412 Sqn who is the VIP Sqn for Canada.
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/8wi...dron/412_e.asp
For those who wish to slam Harper I would say that he is the best PM Canada has had for quite sometime. He stands up for what he believes instead of dithering about like some headless cockroach!
Last edited by saudipc-9; 11th Aug 2006 at 03:02.
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Yup, typical canadian leader. Nice guys until the election is over and won. Soon after they get arrogant and invinceable. BTW,thanks guys! I'm an ex canadian living abroad and thanks to you I know who the PM is, not that I give a F**K!!
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Originally Posted by shon7
Isn't there only one documented instance where a cell phone/transmitting device interfered with the avionics -- that too when the instrument was in a cargo hold.