Cargair
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, Canada
Cargair
Anyone had any experience with training at Cargair, out of St-Hubert airport in Montreal?
Their rental and instructor prices seem to be the most competitive near Montreal, and their manager of sales and pedagogy is very quick on the return on information requests.
Any first-hand accounts (or even rumors?)
Currently doing PPL ground school at Toronto Airways, planning on doing most of my flying in Montreal over the summer.
Their rental and instructor prices seem to be the most competitive near Montreal, and their manager of sales and pedagogy is very quick on the return on information requests.
Any first-hand accounts (or even rumors?)
Currently doing PPL ground school at Toronto Airways, planning on doing most of my flying in Montreal over the summer.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Hello Four-Six North,
I have flown at Cargair to do my IFR, I even rent a plane from them occasionaly. I have never been one of their employe. It is a good group of people, you can choose your instructor according to your personnal need. They have been in the buisness for years. It is a typical flying school with enough resources to make sure you do your course in a timely mater.
If I was you, I would do my flying from their Mascouche (CSK3) base instead. You will reduce the time you spend taxiing on the ground and get more flying done. Mirabel, Dorval, St-Hubert and St-Jean are close enough so there is no problem for the IFR training. Joliette is a very quiet VFR only airport closebuy where you can do more training without coping with busy airport traffic that make you do 10 minutes circuit patterns and lose your precious airtime.
Cheers,
YL
I have flown at Cargair to do my IFR, I even rent a plane from them occasionaly. I have never been one of their employe. It is a good group of people, you can choose your instructor according to your personnal need. They have been in the buisness for years. It is a typical flying school with enough resources to make sure you do your course in a timely mater.
If I was you, I would do my flying from their Mascouche (CSK3) base instead. You will reduce the time you spend taxiing on the ground and get more flying done. Mirabel, Dorval, St-Hubert and St-Jean are close enough so there is no problem for the IFR training. Joliette is a very quiet VFR only airport closebuy where you can do more training without coping with busy airport traffic that make you do 10 minutes circuit patterns and lose your precious airtime.
Cheers,
YL
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Cargair is as good as any other school out there. If I had one complaint, it would be the age of their fleet. They run "experienced" airplanes. Both Aztecs they use for their Multi / IFR training are good airplane, they just don't have the latest toys in them.
I too would go to the Mascouche base. Same distance and driving time from tdowntown Montreal, but minimumtaxi time to get airborn.
D
I too would go to the Mascouche base. Same distance and driving time from tdowntown Montreal, but minimumtaxi time to get airborn.
D
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, Canada
Well, you pay for where you play I guess. I’d be doing my PPL there… what are their 150s and 172s like? Also, do they have a contingent of English-speaking instructors?
I’m actually leaning towards St-Hub. I realize the taxiing and circuits may be longer, but I’d be living downtown Montreal so Mascouche is a little bit more of a drive, given my schedule that could pose problems… and I don’t mind learning to fly in traffic!
As an alternate question, what is the best flight school in Montreal?
Thanks to you both for the infos.
I’m actually leaning towards St-Hub. I realize the taxiing and circuits may be longer, but I’d be living downtown Montreal so Mascouche is a little bit more of a drive, given my schedule that could pose problems… and I don’t mind learning to fly in traffic!
As an alternate question, what is the best flight school in Montreal?
Thanks to you both for the infos.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 548
Likes: 15
From: US
I've only transited at St Hubert and it never seemed that busy. If you are intending on going commercial or doing your IFR it is really nice to train at a towered airport. Just gets you used to the radio work, ATC interaction etc. You pick up a fair bit from listening to the other traffic. Not a big deal but something to consider.
Most important is you are spending a lot of $$$$$$$$. Be demanding of yourself and the school. Get an instructor you can work with and don't get fobbed off on who ever is hanging around. When they loose some rental time because they won't keep a proper schedule they'll treat you differently. Don't under estimate the prep time required. Be at the field early and ready and expect the the same. Make sure you get a brief before and a debrief after every lesson. Insist on getting a running review of our progress and push for the next step.
What I never did was tell em - OK, you said 45-60 hours, I'm at 20, how does it look to finish in another 30. It was only when I got nasty with my flight school and owed them money that someone began to pay attention.
It is very easy to get bounced from one instructor to another, have your time wasted etc etc. You don't need to time build, the instructor does so there is a conflict there.
Good luck with it, best way I've found to spend money so far.
20Driver
Oh yea - don't put any $$$ up front unless you are getting something back in terms of a discount. Get it in writing that any up front cash is 100% refundable and pay with a credit card. It is very easy to get the card company to get your money back if you fax them an agreement that says the funds are on deposit and refundable.
Most important is you are spending a lot of $$$$$$$$. Be demanding of yourself and the school. Get an instructor you can work with and don't get fobbed off on who ever is hanging around. When they loose some rental time because they won't keep a proper schedule they'll treat you differently. Don't under estimate the prep time required. Be at the field early and ready and expect the the same. Make sure you get a brief before and a debrief after every lesson. Insist on getting a running review of our progress and push for the next step.
What I never did was tell em - OK, you said 45-60 hours, I'm at 20, how does it look to finish in another 30. It was only when I got nasty with my flight school and owed them money that someone began to pay attention.
It is very easy to get bounced from one instructor to another, have your time wasted etc etc. You don't need to time build, the instructor does so there is a conflict there.
Good luck with it, best way I've found to spend money so far.
20Driver
Oh yea - don't put any $$$ up front unless you are getting something back in terms of a discount. Get it in writing that any up front cash is 100% refundable and pay with a credit card. It is very easy to get the card company to get your money back if you fax them an agreement that says the funds are on deposit and refundable.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, Canada
I tried several times to contact Air Richilieu to get some pricing & training info from them with no reply. Their inability to do something simple like that didn't give me much confidence in their ability to provide fight training, let alone problem-solve or provide adequate customer service.
But if you say they're good, I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt and try again...
Thanks!
But if you say they're good, I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt and try again...
Thanks!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Lille
That's news to me, I definitely have a high opinion of them. I actually used to work with the competitor, who went broke a couple of years ago. Just so you know, I do not have any interest whatsoever in their business, left the area and the country in 2004 and am now flying cargo in Europe. But hey, a very dear friend of mine actually still instructs there, Samy. Here his direct e-mail: [email protected]
Good luck
Good luck
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, Canada
I just check and Air Richilieu has a new website that has a lot more info than the one that was there just a few weeks ago, so they're still alive and kicking.
I've investigated about 10 flight schools in the Toronto and Montreal areas and for the most part I've satisfied myself that the pricing is more or less the same, within $1500-2000 difference between schools for a PPL based on the base 45 hours. Saving that $2k is attractive but I'd easily pay that knowing I was choosing the right school, in terms of learning/networks/career. It's pretty much down to Cargair, Air Richelieu, and St-Hubery Flying Club, though I admit I haven't physically visited any of them yet and won't br able to do so for another couple of months.
Anyone have any more thoughts?
I've investigated about 10 flight schools in the Toronto and Montreal areas and for the most part I've satisfied myself that the pricing is more or less the same, within $1500-2000 difference between schools for a PPL based on the base 45 hours. Saving that $2k is attractive but I'd easily pay that knowing I was choosing the right school, in terms of learning/networks/career. It's pretty much down to Cargair, Air Richelieu, and St-Hubery Flying Club, though I admit I haven't physically visited any of them yet and won't br able to do so for another couple of months.
Anyone have any more thoughts?
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 877
From: Canada
Laurentide Aviation at Les Cedres Airport.
Go There!
No I do not work for them.
I do have lunch with the boss occasionally.
http://www.laurentideaviation.com/english/home.htm
Go There!
No I do not work for them.
I do have lunch with the boss occasionally.
http://www.laurentideaviation.com/english/home.htm
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: CYHU
Cargair is fine.
Pros...
The insurance (deductible) is $90 per year (cheap). Most instructors speak English. They are open late. Any instructor can sign you off. Cheapest wet rates near Montreal. I think it's under $100/hr for a 152. Lots of planes, I think they have about 15: 150, 172, and aztecs. Radios and transponders work (important for montreal class c airspace). Busy ATC environment. Most A/C have GPS.
cons...
YHU can be congested on busy days and summer evenings. Busy ATC environment (at least half in french). The planes are never gassed up!!! Alot of time wasted waiting for the truck! difficult to get a/c for more thatn 2 hrs block at a time (on short notice). 30 day flight currency requirement (1 hour, strict). 90 days on type.
note: I just rent there, it's efficient, people are nice, but it kinda feels like renting a car at Hertz! Don't really know what the school is like.
152
Pros...
The insurance (deductible) is $90 per year (cheap). Most instructors speak English. They are open late. Any instructor can sign you off. Cheapest wet rates near Montreal. I think it's under $100/hr for a 152. Lots of planes, I think they have about 15: 150, 172, and aztecs. Radios and transponders work (important for montreal class c airspace). Busy ATC environment. Most A/C have GPS.
cons...
YHU can be congested on busy days and summer evenings. Busy ATC environment (at least half in french). The planes are never gassed up!!! Alot of time wasted waiting for the truck! difficult to get a/c for more thatn 2 hrs block at a time (on short notice). 30 day flight currency requirement (1 hour, strict). 90 days on type.
note: I just rent there, it's efficient, people are nice, but it kinda feels like renting a car at Hertz! Don't really know what the school is like.
152
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, Canada
Thanks. I expect to be in Montreal by June, I figure I'd give Cargair a shot based on the pricing and the comments posted here. The only thing that cncerns me is the age of the fleet. But like I said, I'd still give them a shot. Thanks all.
46N
46N
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Dans ma bulle
The only thing that cncerns me is the age of the fleet.
airplanes are not cars. They dont become less reliable with time. Bad maintenance does. I fly 767's that are approx 10-15 year old presently. When I fly my own C150 1959 (300 hrs old engine), I feel like in a brand new aircraft compared to my Boeing.
Yo
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, Canada
So I've heard... but... wouldn't a 150 that's been used as a training aircraft for the past 20 years (or an even older aircraft used for training for, say, 10 years) have more of a risk of structural damage than a newer craft? After being put through X number of spins, stalls, bad maneuvers by students, etc., the effect on the frame and components must be collective, no?
I mean, I understand there's near-constant inspections by pilots and maintenance staff, but seems to me that a more "experienced" training aircraft, in principle, has more of a chance of the wings popping off than somethig with a little less age and wear on it.
Do I have it backwards?
I mean, I understand there's near-constant inspections by pilots and maintenance staff, but seems to me that a more "experienced" training aircraft, in principle, has more of a chance of the wings popping off than somethig with a little less age and wear on it.
Do I have it backwards?
