How to get started?
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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How to get started?
Hello All,
I am a student pilot with 110 hours, nothing compared to just about all of you! I, like just about any other commericial student pilot out there, am extremely out to lunch as to how to land a first job. I look at many posts in here and see that lots of pilots have nearer to 1000TT and are still looking for "entry-level" jobs. So what am I supposed to be looking for? A "pre-entry level job"!? to fill the 200TT to 1000TT void in my logbook? I was wondering on what to start into. I am 17 years old and will hit my commercial very close to my 18th Bd (in May, if anyone is wondering...). I am just finishing high school and there is no other life for me outside of the skies. Naturaly, the first little while (ok, MAYBE big while...) in aviation will not be glamourous in terms of pay, yet it will be the best years of my life! (From what other pilots tell me, it should anyways, but I'm easily ammused!) I am very excited to start my career. I am extremely willing to locate anywhere (whats wrong with Alert!? lol) and of course will do just about anything to land a job... (living out of my truck cant be THAT bad!?). From my time doing what pilots do best... (after flying that is! or at least for your passenger's sake I do!!) killing time by talking, and my general observations ( I have a keen eye for the obvious!) there seem to be 2 mainly used paths to get into this unique field. Flight instruction seems to be used comonly, which im not totaly opposed to doing; and ramp/dock work, which can be good too. So how does one go about finding a job, (yes, I do know you need an instructor's rating for the flight instruction... keen eye for the obvious, remember!?) as I will be ready to spread my wings and fly to my first calling in June. Could anyone do me a huge favour and give me any "inside scoop" or tips as I almost feel like I'm in IMC with a faulty suction pump here (hopefuly not due to my incompetance!), and if anyone can give me some direction for my career (in magnetic degrees if able... sorry... had to use a stupid joke!) I will be forever grateful. By the time I finish my CPL, I will have a group 1 (or maybe 3 if my future looks like floats) IFR and potentialy floats.
Thanks a lot!
CYQG Flyguy
P.S. Sorry about my dumb sense of humor... I'ts contageous I swear!
I am a student pilot with 110 hours, nothing compared to just about all of you! I, like just about any other commericial student pilot out there, am extremely out to lunch as to how to land a first job. I look at many posts in here and see that lots of pilots have nearer to 1000TT and are still looking for "entry-level" jobs. So what am I supposed to be looking for? A "pre-entry level job"!? to fill the 200TT to 1000TT void in my logbook? I was wondering on what to start into. I am 17 years old and will hit my commercial very close to my 18th Bd (in May, if anyone is wondering...). I am just finishing high school and there is no other life for me outside of the skies. Naturaly, the first little while (ok, MAYBE big while...) in aviation will not be glamourous in terms of pay, yet it will be the best years of my life! (From what other pilots tell me, it should anyways, but I'm easily ammused!) I am very excited to start my career. I am extremely willing to locate anywhere (whats wrong with Alert!? lol) and of course will do just about anything to land a job... (living out of my truck cant be THAT bad!?). From my time doing what pilots do best... (after flying that is! or at least for your passenger's sake I do!!) killing time by talking, and my general observations ( I have a keen eye for the obvious!) there seem to be 2 mainly used paths to get into this unique field. Flight instruction seems to be used comonly, which im not totaly opposed to doing; and ramp/dock work, which can be good too. So how does one go about finding a job, (yes, I do know you need an instructor's rating for the flight instruction... keen eye for the obvious, remember!?) as I will be ready to spread my wings and fly to my first calling in June. Could anyone do me a huge favour and give me any "inside scoop" or tips as I almost feel like I'm in IMC with a faulty suction pump here (hopefuly not due to my incompetance!), and if anyone can give me some direction for my career (in magnetic degrees if able... sorry... had to use a stupid joke!) I will be forever grateful. By the time I finish my CPL, I will have a group 1 (or maybe 3 if my future looks like floats) IFR and potentialy floats.
Thanks a lot!
CYQG Flyguy
P.S. Sorry about my dumb sense of humor... I'ts contageous I swear!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Flyguy,
What you need to do is very simple and it's what I did and most pilots I know did to get started: get in you truck and drive to all the airports that you can, knock on the doors and try to meet the chief pilots.You will have to knock on a hundred doors maybe before someone talks to you but that is the only way.With your time and experience don't bother mailing out CV's .....you will be waisting money on stamps.
Don't stop driving until you get a job.......and believe me eventually you will find one.A lot of places will hire you to clean aircraft,load cargo,work the docks or other weird things.....but remember that is their way of testing your determination.....do a good job at it and you will be flying the line in no time.
After you get that first job it does get easier (not easy though) as you will now have helpful contacts and more experience...
Most guys working at my airline started this way.........and even though you will make peanuts you will most likely have the best time of your career and make lifelong friends.
Good luck and keep driving until someone says yes
meaw
What you need to do is very simple and it's what I did and most pilots I know did to get started: get in you truck and drive to all the airports that you can, knock on the doors and try to meet the chief pilots.You will have to knock on a hundred doors maybe before someone talks to you but that is the only way.With your time and experience don't bother mailing out CV's .....you will be waisting money on stamps.
Don't stop driving until you get a job.......and believe me eventually you will find one.A lot of places will hire you to clean aircraft,load cargo,work the docks or other weird things.....but remember that is their way of testing your determination.....do a good job at it and you will be flying the line in no time.
After you get that first job it does get easier (not easy though) as you will now have helpful contacts and more experience...
Most guys working at my airline started this way.........and even though you will make peanuts you will most likely have the best time of your career and make lifelong friends.
Good luck and keep driving until someone says yes
meaw
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Before you start driving around, start at your local airport. I know of some people who went across the country and eventually found a job not more than 15 minutes from home. Networking is also important so maybe try to meet people that work in entry level jobs or airline pilots who have worked in these jobs, sometimes they will be nice enough to get your name known with the chief pilot. Entry level jobs are all being occupied by high time guys, but once they hiring cycle starts up, especially with Air Canada calling back and hiring tons of guys for their new fleet, all of the lower end jobs will be open. As much as I hate it, instructing really is the only way to go, unless you find luck doing air tours.
Good luck,
BFD
Good luck,
BFD
Join Date: Jan 2003
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instructing is one of the ways to go, not the only way. It works for some... Driving across the country is a great idea, however it is is also worth considering picking an area and spending a little time. People may not higher you on the spot, however if you are persistant good things can, and do happen. Places you might consider include Yellowknife. May seen like 13 hours is a long way to drive from Edmonton, but there is a variety or 703/704/705 operators in the area, and frankly, Yellowknife isn't the worse place to spend a few weeks in the summer. Beats the hell out of the humidity in Toronto! Good luck, and happy driving 
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This article may be of some interest.
Nice attitude, BFD ... I feel sorry for your students. 
Hopefully you will soon move on to the cockpit of an Airbus where you can't do much harm (Robert Piché and Dick Dejager notwithstanding).
As much as I hate it, instructing really is the only way to go
Hopefully you will soon move on to the cockpit of an Airbus where you can't do much harm (Robert Piché and Dick Dejager notwithstanding).
It's not just an adventure....
it's just a job!
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Flyguy,
Try the Military, it's free and you will get the heavy time you want with ATG.
I went that route in the 70's and the experience I gained has kept me employed with the biggest RW employer in Canada ever since. Many will say dont do it, but if you just play the "pretend" game and dont get too caught up in the military brainlessness, you will do alright.
It will mean a 5 year commitment but hey, has any company out there given you a guaranteed job offer for the next five years?
Cheers and Merry Christmas!
OffshoreIgor
Try the Military, it's free and you will get the heavy time you want with ATG.
I went that route in the 70's and the experience I gained has kept me employed with the biggest RW employer in Canada ever since. Many will say dont do it, but if you just play the "pretend" game and dont get too caught up in the military brainlessness, you will do alright.
It will mean a 5 year commitment but hey, has any company out there given you a guaranteed job offer for the next five years?
Cheers and Merry Christmas!
OffshoreIgor
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The military is a good route, but
As far as a timeline there your looking at about 5 years just to get your wings, and then [what is it up to now] 7 years operational pilot. By the time your ready to bolt [if you have enough hours/they dont fly to much] you'll have a real tough question to ask yourself. Do I spend the next few years so as to get my pension, or just split and see what civvy street is like.
As far as a timeline there your looking at about 5 years just to get your wings, and then [what is it up to now] 7 years operational pilot. By the time your ready to bolt [if you have enough hours/they dont fly to much] you'll have a real tough question to ask yourself. Do I spend the next few years so as to get my pension, or just split and see what civvy street is like.
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Thanks alot guys!
All your advice is handy, ESPECIALY that article... I really liked it! yet i think bush will be my calling, it sounds to be a great experiance! I guess my next challenge after the commercial ride will be staying alive out in the bush! Military would be great too, yet from what i also hear, there is not too much flying going on these days...
All your advice is handy, ESPECIALY that article... I really liked it! yet i think bush will be my calling, it sounds to be a great experiance! I guess my next challenge after the commercial ride will be staying alive out in the bush! Military would be great too, yet from what i also hear, there is not too much flying going on these days...
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Military would be great too, yet from what i also hear, there is not too much flying going on these days.
Additionally, if the bush is your ultimate career ambition, I think it would be fair to say that military flying (which is highly structured and supported) would be rather poor training for the largely independent life of the bush pilot. Just my two cents.
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Quote :
"but if you just play the "pretend" game and dont get too caught up in the military brainlessness, you will do alright. "
-----------------------------
However if you really are brainless or get caught up in that mindset you could consider sliding sideways from the military into TC.
An added bonus of going this route is if you spend the required time in each job you will have two pension plans to retire on....
...and even better after leaving TC you can set up a consulting business using your contacts in government and pull down three paycheques.
Chuck E.
"but if you just play the "pretend" game and dont get too caught up in the military brainlessness, you will do alright. "
-----------------------------
However if you really are brainless or get caught up in that mindset you could consider sliding sideways from the military into TC.
An added bonus of going this route is if you spend the required time in each job you will have two pension plans to retire on....
...and even better after leaving TC you can set up a consulting business using your contacts in government and pull down three paycheques.
Chuck E.
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Consider saving money and not doing a Group 1 IFR. You likely won't need it for a very long time. Do a Group 3 now, and you can upgrade to Group 1 later. Use that money for a float rating or instructor rating.
Instructing or bush both have their positives and negatives, so it depends on what you really want. You sound like you want to do the bush, so go for it.
Expect to spend 2-3 yrs working on the ground. If they allow you to fly sooner, then you can consider yourself lucky. Don't buy into people saying ground work times are only 1 to 1.5 yrs because you can be easily disappointed. Work hard and be positive even when things are really crappy. Treat your co-workers with respect, and absolutely do not participate in 'backstabbing' a fellow employee. Do your job and go home. Try and have a life and friends outside the company to keep your sanity.
Goodluck on the job hunt.
Instructing or bush both have their positives and negatives, so it depends on what you really want. You sound like you want to do the bush, so go for it.
Expect to spend 2-3 yrs working on the ground. If they allow you to fly sooner, then you can consider yourself lucky. Don't buy into people saying ground work times are only 1 to 1.5 yrs because you can be easily disappointed. Work hard and be positive even when things are really crappy. Treat your co-workers with respect, and absolutely do not participate in 'backstabbing' a fellow employee. Do your job and go home. Try and have a life and friends outside the company to keep your sanity.
Goodluck on the job hunt.
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It used to be if you had 5o hours on floats and went to the deepest regions of the armpit (Pickle Lake,Armstrong,Pine Dock, Gods Lake Narrows) you could find something, now it seems this is not enough anymore unfortunately.
Buffalo Airways out of Hay River would take you off the ramp eventually. I have two friends and know of others that just kept showing up there every day until Joe put them to work. They worked their butts off for 6 and 9 months respectively in delightful conditions. But, they both went right seat on the DC3.I don't know if this is the cae anymore though.
For that you would need a multi IFR and and to write your IATRA. If you are building the time between your private and commercial I recommend doing as much as you can afford on floats if that is what you want as a carreer. Any other build time at night (and winter in canada allows for a lot) for the night PIC-good for you're ATPL later.
The post earlier suggesting picking a spot and concentrating on it is good. If you make contact and hang about it's probably better than the drive by shooting approach.
Other than that. best of luck, you could check out the canadian aviation chat site "www.avcanada.ca" also.
Buffalo Airways out of Hay River would take you off the ramp eventually. I have two friends and know of others that just kept showing up there every day until Joe put them to work. They worked their butts off for 6 and 9 months respectively in delightful conditions. But, they both went right seat on the DC3.I don't know if this is the cae anymore though.
For that you would need a multi IFR and and to write your IATRA. If you are building the time between your private and commercial I recommend doing as much as you can afford on floats if that is what you want as a carreer. Any other build time at night (and winter in canada allows for a lot) for the night PIC-good for you're ATPL later.
The post earlier suggesting picking a spot and concentrating on it is good. If you make contact and hang about it's probably better than the drive by shooting approach.
Other than that. best of luck, you could check out the canadian aviation chat site "www.avcanada.ca" also.
