"Best passenger..."
 

I just read the thread about Indian and Arab pax, and became very curious about reading the comment about 'the best customer you've ever had'.

I fly an absolutely alarming amount, and being the type of person I am, like to make your [cabin crew] lives as easy as possible (where I'm concerned... I know you have enough difficulty with other pax!). How does one become the best pax you've ever had? I just tend to sit there and keep my mouth shut, except to say "thank you" when appropriate.

double stacked trays
 

Hi WX ,

There is one thing which makes a huge difference. If you are in Economy , when you hand your meal tray back for collection , lay everything flat on it. Each tray has to slide back into a slot with a limited height. If your tray is returned piled high , we the crew have to pick through your unwanted meal debris . This invariably means sticking our fingers into a piece of half eaten food or yoghurt pot in order to rearrange the tray to allow it to be stowed back in the trolley. Yuck. And then , think about it , we have to move along the cabin collecting the next tray and the next tray. The cross contamination issues are frightening and the whole experience is one of the worst aspects of the job. If each customer took just a few moments to straighten out their trays before returning them , this hideous task would be a lot more pleasant and you the customer would be able to get out of your seats much , much quicker.
Whilst on the subject , there's always the proud customer on the aisle seat who has very "kindly" stacked all three trays from that row into one pile. They don't go into the cart I'm afraid. (Physically won't). This means unstacking the whole bunch and sorting through the contents to create three level trays.

And rubbish. Wouldn't you all put it in a bin at home ? Haven't the public noticed that there is a bin in each toilet on board. This goes for babby's nappies too. We are food handlers , not nappy disposers.

All of the above certainly makes our jobs much easier but think about it, it makes life on board better for you too. The meal service will be completed faster allowing you to move in the aisles without being hindered by trolleys , the cabin will be a cleaner environment , after all , you are the ones who have to sit in it and our hands won't be covered in quite so many yucky things.

One other thing. If you are waiting to pass one of us on a trolley. Give us some space . Don't move right up behind us . And if you want our attention , please don't grab onto our clothes . It's really not polite at all.

One last thing. If you are absorbed in the movie . Take your head set off when we are trying to serve you. There are plenty more mouths waiting to be fed whilst we wait for you to listen to us. Please , please , please don't leave them on , let us ask if you want "chicken or beef then say " what did she say" to your partner. Aaaaargh. imagine doing this through twenty odd rows , five-six deep. Even saints run out of patience. Even saints get jet lagged and tetchy. Just good manners and a bit of common sense make all the difference really.

In return , I promise that when I bring the guy next to you a drink and you take a look at it and say , "hey , great idea , can you bring me one of those too" , I bring it back and then your wife says , "actually , I wouldn't mind one either" , I will come back for the third time and I will smile genuinely.

Thankyou. You are now a great passenger. Press call bell to collect free drink now.

Thanks WX man, kind of you to ask. These would be my suggested guidelines...

• Smile back when smiled at...
• Make eye contact when speaking to us or vice versa...
• Acknowledge and respond with basic courtesies (Hello, Goodbye, Please, Thank-you etc.)
• A lightness of manner and a sense of humour make life more pleasant for all involved

In short, treat Cabin Crew with the same courtesy and respect with which you would wish to be treated yourself.

While I'm at it, a word about what to do when you are dissatisfied! When things go wrong, it is a little pointless letting rip at people who have no responsibility for the problem, or who are unable to influence the outcome of events in any way. Abusing or berating cabin crew for aircraft technical delays, lost baggage or seat pitch is unproductive for you and demoralising for us and can achieve nothing except to generate bad humour all round. These are all matters appropriate for communication with the Customer Relations department. If the problem lies with an individual crew member's behaviour or attitude, the the senior cabin crew member is the person to talk to (note: talk not yell). In this way, seniors may be able more easily to spot those who are persistently involved in complaints. These methods of complaining are true for airlines, supermarkets, call centres and just about every industry you can think of: target complaints at those who are responsible or who have authority, not those who have neither. Abusing the powerless is bullying, pure and simple.

I hope this answers your question, although the very fact that you ask it probably means that you are a "good" passenger in the first place - therefore I hope to fly with you.

On the theme of treating crew, I read with interest the comments about the food tray, and I will make a conscious effort to flatten the contents. But I do haveone question. I tend to fly a lot of scheduled business trips across Europe, and if I fly on a scheduled flight, and a meal is served, the vast majority of the time you get real metal cutelry. However, on a "holiday/charter" flight you ALWAYS get plastic. These plastic things couldnt cut runny butter, they are awfull.
Do the airlines not trust the general public, or are there more concerns with the infrequent flyer (or great unwashed) that frequent these types of flight and the potential dangers of metal cutelry.

cutlery
 

Hi ukhomerj ,

The cutlery thing is all about cost. Scheduled carriers tend to charge more and therefore spend a little more on their inflight product. Charter prices are generally extremely reasonable and competitive and therefore do not budget for such niceties . Speaking from experience in several airlines and several cabins within , the most feisty passengers are often in Business Class not charter passengers. Just look at some of the well publicised behaviour of certain celebs and business people who drink too much , knock back a few tranquillisers , go la-la , behave abysmally then pull the "don't you know who I am ? " card.

As far as the UK goes , the CAA have banned the use of metal cutlery (even tea-spoons) into and out of the uk since 9.11.
You may however find metal cutlery on shuttle flights operated by UK carriers. i.e. flights which stop in Bangkok for instance may well have metal cutlery between there and Sydney. I can't comment on any other nations I'm afraid. I do know that this is a big problem for crew working in the premiere cabins on scheduled carriers as the customers sometimes cause a big old fuss when they have to use plastic. And if you think about it , it's all a bit silly really as there are plenty of potential weapons still on board. Another example of an ill thought out , reactionary measure by some official somewhere. (Who probably has shares in a plastic cutlery company).

On a more positive note , I have to say that disruptive passengers really are still a rarity and although I sound bitter , I'm giving you worst case scenarios here. It's actually still a pleasure to serve the majority of punters and a job I am proud to do.

Sorry aeroflirt, but I take a different view about some of your points. A lot of crew moan about meal trays, but I don't see it as a passengers job to re-pack their meal, or even to know that it matters. Why should they? Tidying up while clearing in is just something that goes with the territory. I don't particularly like sticking my fingers in food, but I've stuck them in a lot worse (during in-flight medical incidents before someone gets rude) and it is hardly up there with war & famine in terms of hardship. I don't see that cross-contamination is an issue with food that will be gashed, and catering equipment that will be cleaned back at the unit. Those who stack their trays on the aisle lap tray may need to reclaim space ASAP if travelling with kids, or may actually be trying to help us out. It's just something that people do, and I find it easier to roll with it than fight it.

Rubbish & nappies? No, some people don't know about bins in the toilets. They hand it to us because they don't know how else to dispose of it. After two kids, I've handled thousands of nappies, and 1 more or less makes no difference: I just bag it up and gash it with a smile - where's the problem?

Movies & headsets? - sure it's irritating, but your employer has provided the movie in the hope that people will watch and enjoy, so I can't blame them if they do. It would be nice if headsets were removed, sure, but life doesn't always work like that.

You are right about cutlery being cost-related. It costs more to purchase in the first place, and then much more to clean after use. Many airlines are secretly relieved about the post 9.11 ban.

I agree with you that the overwhelming majority of people are pleasant, and a tiny minority disruptive. It is still the best way to make a living that I know of!

Please understand that I'm not looking for a fight by posting these views, I just see them as being something so integral to the job that I no longer notice them. You may of course, disagree.

Tightslot ,

I never said they are things that really bug me that much . If you read the originating post , the customer wanted to know from us what would make him a winner with crew. I mentioned my pet niggles in what was intended to be a light hearted way. I didn't say it really bugs me if this doesn't happen , merely that I prefer it to happen. After all , we were asked. What should we have said? "Oooh no kind sir , we just love you all and everything you do". I know I'm not alone on this one as these are a selection of the grumbles I hear from crew on every flight. We are human after all and allowed to have our likes and dislikes and as I've reitereated several times now THE QUESTION WAS ASKED OF US , This was not some unsolicited whinge for the sake of whinging and I repeat again , it wasn't meant in a particularly serious manner anyway. You say you aren't looking for a fight but your tone is certainly verging on sanctimonious. Why don't you read the original thread again once more and chill a little. I'm sure you are a wonderful caring hostie darling but surely sometimes things must bug you too ? By the way , as a mother myself , I would not dream of handing anyone other than my hubby a dirty nappy. It really does not take a great deal of intellect to work out that they can be disposed of in the lavatory bins. I don't see any reason to inflict these on anyone else. As for the cross contamination issue , think about it. I pick up used tray and touch half eaten yoghurt pot etc. Then I move to next customer who wants a cup of water. I pour customer a cup of water with the hands which have just been all over the dirty tray of the customer before. Customer touches cup to drink. Bingo , he touches the same germs I may have left on his cup from handling the contents of the tray before . Very sanitary. hmmmm.

and as I pointed out. The majority of measures I suggested that the original poster consider when flying would ultimately benefit the passengers themselves.

Perfectly chilled, thanks.

As you say, we were asked - agree to disagree on this one.

Ladies ladies please,

I think "we" the general punters were only asking what would make your life better from us. I was not and do not want to start an argument between you all. I for one dont want a meal tray launched at me across three seats (and this is a joke)!!!
As far as I am concerned, you do a job I would not want to do anyday, dealing with the general and hoy poloy public. I consider myself as a well travelled and well behaved passenger, but tend to believe that charter passengers are treated more like cattle at times. NOT by the crew, but by the airlines making as much profit from a fixed amount of cabin space.
I think all that was asked was how can we help in some small way.
But one thing has crossed my mind, again it is the difference between scheduled and charter flights, is that on charter flights, the attendants always wore disposable gloves when clearing away meal trays, but not on scheduled. Just an observation.

disposable gloves
 

Depends on airline. With my last airline we (the crew) and union had to fight long and hard to obtain disposable gloves for clearing in. After all its more hygenic!!

With my new airline, when asked, they said NO WAY IT LOOKS UNSIGHTLY AND PUTS A BARRIER BETWEEN CREW AND PAX.

We dont have a union yet, but when we do boy this will be first on my agenda.:mad:

sorry tightslot
 

Sorry Ms Tightslot (love the name by the way) and thankyou for your good humour homerj . I have had some nosh , blood sugar levels are normal again and I am a happy hosty once again. Tip to me : eat before getting on this board. There's really no need to be so bolshie so I do apologise.

Homerj , WX et al , why don't you tell us what really annoys you about cabin crew or what we could do to be your favourite hosty ? Only clean stuff though......x

here's some potential annoyances :

PAs in the middle of a night flight.

Knocking your knees with our trolleys.

Too much strong perfume.

That sniffy look we are such experts at when asked a simple request but can't be bothered.

Saying "chicken or beef" in exactly the same tone of voice 100 times.

Being spoken to like a two year old when you forget to buckle your seat belt or nip to the loo during turbulence.

Promising to come straight back with that drink , not to be seen again for the rest of the flight.

Flirting with that seriously good looking man in the row ahead and blatantly giving him extra drinks.

Pretending we can't see you gesticulating wildly from three rows behind.

Scowling if you DARE walk into our galleys whilst we are "busy" reading the paper.

Any more you want to add ? Go on , we can take it. I promise not to get in a strop with any replies.

Wash your hands
 

Just a thought! If your airline doesn't allow you to use disposable gloves, (before you fight your way to change this situation) wash your hands as often as you can! Don't touch your face or anything for that matter during clearing in and also you can buy those liquid *no water needed* antibacterial soap *thingies* - very handy.

Oh, and I personally never serve anything to pax during clear-in. Surely they can be kind enough to wait that long..?

To be a nice passenger you :

1) Understand we are only humans
2) Smile :D
3) Understand we are only humans...

And we will smile back - thats'a a promise! :ok:

Aeroflirt, you asked for it so here goes:

Trolleys : Now i am a big lad (tall I mean) and sometimes i just dont fit in the crummy little space given, now I know I am in for a big fall here, but steer the bloddy cart straight. In a fight between my kneecap and the trolley corner, I have never won.

Bottoms and hips: When you are taking the extra big drink down to the bloke in 1A, why do you bang against my elbow, which is either
A) holding my PPL course books (had to get that one in) or,
B) My first and only drink in 4 hours, or
C) Crappy plastic knife with last bit of butter to spread on my ickle bit of bread.

Safety Briefing: Please dont give me daggers because I have not bothered to look up from my rivetting Air LAw book, I know where the exits are, I know how to buckle up, life vest...waste of time if we ditch we all die.

Drinks service: When I ask for a large scotch, I am not being greedy. I have a drink problem, I need alchohol after my meetings. You think you have a bad day, wanna swap sometime.
When I ask for another, dont worry about me. I am a big boy now. I know my limits, and when I fall asleep, thats it.

Smile sometimes, we too have bad days.

Emergency exits: If you see a big bloke crammed in to a cattle seat, ask him to swap with the 4ft2 midget in the Emergency exit. In case we are needed, I will be out of the plane before you, leaving a HUGE hole for the rest of the passengers.

I could go on, but I find the best crews are, in order of service and quality:

BRITISH
EUROPEAN
ASIAN
sorry but US crews, not my thing. Too surly and dont want to be bothered or treat you like kids.
Gotta tell you this one:
Flew to Phoenix with an US based carrier, darent name names here. Got my upgrade and had 8 hours of alcholic bliss to CHicago. Plane delayed to Phoenix, so topped up in the bar.
FInally got on plane and thought, water. Rehydrate get ready for getting off, getting luggage, getting hotel etc.
Announcement from crew..............no film.
So we had a nice freindly US crew member divide the plane into 4, and each section had, YES HAD, to sing If Your Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands, stamp your feet and all the other bits that go with it.
Grumpy, sobering up, British business man, didnt join in. And was seen by crew not to join in. And told whole plane I didnt join in.
Was I bothered..........................................

So in conclusion, as I have said before, you do a sterling job. I wouldnt do it, looking after me. I now know to be attentive, smile, flatten tray, watch briefing, dont ask for seconds, dont ask for doubles, dont ask for anything really.

See you all soon at FL360.

CHEERS

In direct response to your last post:

PAs in the middle of a night flight. Breaks the drunken stupor, so its OK.

Knocking your knees with our trolleys. See above.

Too much strong perfume. Thats Ok too, it masks the smell of the beef. Is it really beef????????????

That sniffy look we are such experts at when asked a simple request but can't be bothered. You ask me a question on my profession, and you too will get the same look.

Saying "chicken or beef" in exactly the same tone of voice 100 times. Try asking beef or chicken. COme on show some originality.

Being spoken to like a two year old when you forget to buckle your seat belt or nip to the loo during turbulence. Got used to that by now, first of all my dear old mum, now the bloody missus.

Promising to come straight back with that drink , not to be seen again for the rest of the flight. Now that really gets me. I am desperate, I would not have asked otherwise.

Flirting with that seriously good looking man in the row ahead and blatantly giving him extra drinks. Now you are getting me really mad. Flirting...who cares. Its the drinks I want woman!!!!!!!

Pretending we can't see you gesticulating wildly from three rows behind. Oh you will when I stand up and bang my head on the bloody over head bins. Crawl over two other passengers and stagger down the aisle bumping every elbow and leg on the way down.

Scowling if you DARE walk into our galleys whilst we are "busy" reading the paper. Well i do need to exercise in case of DVT. And I dont care if you are a Sun reader.

Any more you want to add ? Go on , we can take it. I promise not to get in a strop with any replies.

Yes I do

When we are interrupting you in the galley, we are all not trying to pull you. Just have a chat and a laugh.

Laugh at our jokes, they are funny, honest.

Get us a flight deck visit. PLEASE

Even better, get us a jump seat visit for landing. PRETTY PLEASE and I will never drink again.

So looks like double dose of eyedrops for me then.

ukhomerj you are a funny man
 

homerj ,

I'm gutted honey. What do you mean you don't come into the galley to chat us up ? You've destroyed my fragile ego. It's not that I particularly enjoy being chatted up by bleary eyed middle aged businessmen but it's nice to know they want to. And do you mind not telling the whole board that I read the Sun ?

However , given the blatant toadying about British crews being your favourite , I will forgive your transgressions , reluctantly dig out one more scotch for you (wearing my sniffy look naturally)and bash my trolley into the annoying woman who forgot to take her headphones off AND did not stack her tray properly instead.

You want an overwing exit seat with loads of legroom ? Sorry , you have to know the check-in duty manager (intimately) or flirt outrgeously with the crew. Grovelling always helps.

Sorry , can't smile. I'm still waiting for a trip to Capetown to get my teeth bleached.

Just one more thing , please don't ring your call bell unless you are squashed into a window seat. I'm far too busy to answer as I've still got OK magazine to get through. And as I gave up my vegetarian crew meal to a passenger who forgot to order one , I've got to try and eat some of the left over , now congealed beef option.

Phew . Managed the beef although not entirely convinced that's what it was , although it tasted better after I'd sprayed it with my bottle of extra strong perfume that I keep just for work.

Blood sugar levels now normal..........

"Hello sir ! Of course I don't mind you coming into the galley . Scotch sir , no problem. Shall I make you a double ? By the way ,
I've noticed that you're a big chap and I've been meaning to tell you all flight that there is a spare seat at the overwing if you want it . I notice from your reading material that you are a pilot . What a shame. I would have loved to take you onto the flight deck for a visit but since 9.11 we are not permitted to do so. Just press your call bell if I can do anything else for you at all sir."

We are all humans , cramped into a tube together for long periods of time. We all have good and bad days. To be good crew or lovely passengers is simple . Rise above your preconceptions and smile , even when you really don't want to. Let's face it , as the cliche goes , it really does cost nothing.


End of sermon. Peace to you all xxxxxxxxxxxx

Just a couple of thoughts...
 

... and I'm putting on my armour as I write ;)

I'm a regular pax - but my job is to work with airline operators. When I work with them, I sit in the jump seat of their aircraft. Usually completing five to six sectors a day (no rules to protect me!).

Add to this a piece of history - my very first 'proper' job whilst still at school was as a silver-service breakfast waiter at a posh hotel in my country of domicile.

Thought No.1 - re Best passenger
I have been treated like sh!t by people out for a good time - as I suspect have most cabin crew. I remember what it's like and so I treat cabin crew the way I'd liked to have been treated when trying to silver-serve a fried egg onto a plate. 'Thanks' for a start would be nice. So I smile, use eye contact, crack a joke, listen to the safety brief (although I know B737s and A320s to such detail that I honestly don't have to - 'cos that's my job) and try to help you as much as possible (pax+heavy bag; hostie helps+too heavy = me load into compartment to help = happy, cheery hostie).

Thought No. 2 - Hosties
I think you're a fantastic bunch of folk, but I sometimes wonder about two things. Firstly, when I'm working with your airline (and I will have) and there's are no pax around what fun we have! However, as soon as those pax arrive - woomph. Smiles gone. Fun gone. Starchy stiffness arrives. Now I know you have to present a front that demands a reasonable amount of respect, after all, you expect to be obeyed in the event of an 'incident'.
But please, please, please - show that you can at least think 'fun'. The second point is (am now completely covered in flame-proof armour) is that remember I said I was a breakfast waiter? Who do you think were the worst people to wait on? The Americans? The Germans? No. The aircrews. 'I said white bread, not this muck'; 'Is this tea? Next time make sure it's hot'; 'This food is disgusting. Can't you do any better?'; 'I want two cups of coffee. Now.'; Please tell that table over there to be quiet. I have a headache.'; (after dropping a piece of bacon on a hostie's handbag) 'You idiot! I'll make sure you don't work here again!'

I think you might have the idea by now (but I got that EVERY Saturday and Sunday for about a year).

So, as with all things, there's two sides to every story and two ways to experience people - off-duty and on-duty.

The Cabin Crew I have met professionally have been brilliant - without exception. But the reason why I totally respect the difficulties you have in your job is because of how badly your older colleagues treated me!

Anyway - I know you're about to get me, so I'm going to duck now!

I'll leave you though with one of the fun moments I've enjoyed with hosties (it's not rude!) - Pax were loading on aircraft. Operator involved had no seating allocation policy. Due to certain ops restrictions (due to Training Pilot being on board) I was to spend some time in jump seat and the rest as pax on this sector. Was very full flight with only one seat spare.

Well, v kind hostie said that she'd reserve a seat for me on row A. Ill-natured pax compained that he couldn't sit there, and didn't you operate a no reservation policy? Hostie explained ina quick witted way that I was senior manager in the airline checking on service quality and did he mind? Of course not.

Oops. Flight delayed 1hr 45mins. Who got it in the neck from lovely pax. Yup - yours truly; hosties laughing their you-know-whats off. I knew what the problem was, however couldn't say. So that was a bit of a test and did I squirm!

However, a/c finally took off, I did my stuff in jump seat, joined hosties (still laughing) as they were serving the coffees. I was asked if I could help cos they were busy, so I made coffee in the rear galley.

Pax loved seeing a 'senior manager' making the coffee; Pissy pax happy they'd complained to 'senior manager'; hosties happy to have a helping hand; Hosties happy to 'senior manager' to handle the problems; 'senior manager' happy too - not had so much fun for ages!!

You know who you are - thx to all

Celloistic

I love you Aeroflirt.
 

Aeroflirt

I was not toadying to British crew, it is what I believe to be true.

Some years ago I used to do a lot of long haul to the Far East. Now anyone who has travelled extensively over there, even though it is a great place wants to come home. I used to make sure I got a seat with the worlds fave airline, coz it was British. British tea, British papers, marmelade.....oh how sad I am.

But the best thing was on one return trip, the whole world was falling through me. Asked to sit by the toilet, crew asked why. So in my most delicate scouse manner I explained. No probs. A couple of mins later, two little tabs and glass of water. Problem solved.

So I do love you all, epsecially Aeroflirt. And if anyone is flying MAN to GAT to Crete next Tuesday, I am the big bloke with the Air Law book all cramped at the back.

Now how do I get intimate with the Duty Manager for a over wing exit. Hope it isnt a geezer.

I'm blushing
 

Oooh Homer , I've gone all flustered and bashful now. Thankyou for your kind words. Which airline/s are you flying with ? Will you be checked through from Manchester ? Have you rung the airline to see if they can reserve an overwing seat for you ?

Tip for you : Stop in one of the restaurants (I use the term loosely) at the airport and swipe a couple of their plastic cutlery packs. Chuck them in the top of your handluggage ready for when the inevitable occurs and you need a replacement knife or fork.

Have to say that I work for a large Brit airline (daren't say the world's fave for fear of being shot down in flames)and the majority of Brit tourists and particularly expats always comment on how wonderful it is to have a taste of home as soon as they step on board.

I once asked an American pax who had been whinging about everything for virtually the whole flight why on earth he was flying with my (not literally obviously) airline given his patent dislike. "Hell no , honey" , he responded , " I just love ******** Air (why do they always abbreviate this word ?) , I can complain as much as I want and you still remain polite"

Don't know where I'm going with this one really. Think I need to go and find my life.

Byeee.

PS Love you to homerj x

Celloistic ,

Have to say , I hear what you are saying about some airline crew's attitude towards other customer service staff. You'd think we'd show a little empathy given the circumstances but I have had occasion to witness SOME (not all) crew giving serious attitude over the pettiest of gripes. Has to be said , there must be a reason why crew are invariably unpopular in many of the hotels that we stay in.
Mind you , some of the worst offenders when it comes to ignorance and rudeness are airline staff on their holidays and I'm DEFINITELY not talking about crew here. We wouldn't be that daft knowing only to well what the crew are thinking of us.
It always amazes me how someone sitting in First or Business who has paid diddly squat for the privilege can get so worked up about things such as not getting their first choice of meal or paper because the paying punters obviously get first option. They always take these things so personally as if they are being victimised or something.

Sorry , gone off at a tangent here, nearly deleted but decided it was a valid point even if somewhat off the original topic.

Ok. Definitely going to find my life now.

UK Homer study harder
 

In ref to your comment on not listening to safety demos. If and when you get your PPL I hope you'll realise the importance these demos. Everybody should pay attention to these, even if you are a frequent flyer. Do you know the difference in SEP between different variants of 737's alone?!


It could save yours and other pax lives!

hiya guys,
but maybe UKHJ travels with the same airline each time... Same airline, same plane, they dont change the drills that quickly :ok:

Safety issues
 

Millno

I do agree with you. But what you do have to realise is, many times I am a passenger with the same people, on the same airline, on the same route.

Now I always check which exit is nearest to me, and I then count, every seat from mine to the exit, so I know if the s**t hits the fan, which way to go, and how many seats before I exit the aircraft.

In my PPL training, I have already been taught the importance of pax safety, especially when doing forced landings. But the difference here is, my pax is sat next to me and in arms reach of every switch, button, lever, and control column. Not the same as a passenger aircraft.

I dont want to go down the route of "I dont listen, I dont care, I have done it before", but please do credit us with some sense, especailly on the short haul business passenger routes, as many many of us fly so often. CHarters I agree are different. And I will listen to the briefing because it will be a different aircraft, with different exit locations.

Soap box getting wobbly now, so better get off.

AERFOLIRT, there is a PM for you chuck.

Happy landings.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

If I understand correctly, pilots perform checklists because even though they may know by heart the procedures, the checklist serves to check and remind and establish a pattern for subsequent procedures. The same is true for the verbal briefing on taxi out for an abort or divert: It re-enforces agreed procedure and understanding.

ukhomerj - wouldn't it be easier to just watch the damn thing? What's 60 seconds out of your life? When I position with pilots on commercial flights, they watch the briefing, even on their own aircraft: It's a courtesy thing - sets an example to others around. Also, for the reasons above it can be useful.

Don't get me wrong, you can do what you want during the demo (so long as your newspaper or conversation don't obstruct others), and who knows maybe you are as knowledgeable about SEP procedures on that type and carrier as you believe. It just seems to me that for reasons of common sense, courtesy and professionalism you might as well watch rather than try and buck the system. It just seems to me to be such a terribly small imposition to place on you, but hey, who knows? I rarely see it from the passenger side.

You know? I always listen to the safety announcements (even though I could do it in stereo with the crew after so many sectors) - but I always put down the paper/PPL texts etc etc because it is PLAIN GOOD MANNERS to give attention to someone who is talking to you..... especially when they are not trying to sell you something, but to give you information that could one awful day save your skin....

Perhaps manners are dying out. Pity.

TA

Every pax,If you have the skills to deal with situations!

Perhaps this question deserves its own thread, nevertheless.

All this talk of safety briefings raises a question with me, especially the bit about ditching and flotation devices and life vests. When was the last ditching in the sea where pax were successfully evac'd in life vests? I can't recall a story on this - only unsuccessful ditchings? Anyone care to comment?

Ozzy

I have only seen one incident of an aircraft ditching in the sea.

It was some years ago, and the plane for whatever reason, I dont remember, ditched parallel to a beach in the Caribean somewhere. It dirched very slowly indeed, almost in slow motion.
It was all filmed by a sun bather. Other sunbathers swam out to help.

Dont remember if there were any casualties.

There is a movie on the web somewhere of a, I think it's a 757, maybe 767, ditching in the sea due to a hijacking - think it ran out of fuel. Many fatalities, don't know if there was time to brace - question still stands tho'

Ozzy

It was a 767, Ethiopian hijacking, most killed (many due premature inflation of lifejackets inside the a/c) - filmed from the beach.

Last premeditated ditching I know of was a DC-9 in Carribean some years ago - some survivors.

It is more than possible that water survival eqpt will be required even if not flying oceanic. Many runways project into oceans and rivers - a/c can come to earth anywhere inc. rivers and lakes.

Correct,it was ethiopian air lines.many died and some servived!
then again, it was very close to the beach,not in the deep sea.

That's right HKL,

It was a B767-200ER of Ethiopian Airlines and it was hijacked shortly after take off from Addis Ababa en-route to Nairobi.

The 3 Ethopian hijackers forced the Captain to change course several times.

The aircraft eventually ran out of fuel and as a result was forced to ditch into the sea about 200ft from the coast of Moroni,the capital of the Comores Islands.

All 3 hijackers died as they were reportedly standing up when the aircraft hit the water.

Sadly, 10 crew also died,as did 117 out of the 160 passengers.

gladrags:cool:

Homer,

regardless of how many times you fly on a particular aircraft, still pay attention. As Tight slot said, even crew who actually work on the aircraft watch the safety demo when they are positioning- even pilots.

When I was CC it really bugged me to see pax reading whilst I was showing the demo. It's very rude!!!

Brgds Millno

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/xla0xla0/7672.gif

2 british women survived this crash, and subsequently told BA SEP instructors that paying attention to the safety instructions, particularly seatbelt/life jacket and brace position, along with deternination 2 survive- saved their lives. How many regular pax really know quickest exits? Can U undo Ur seatbelt with UR eyes closed? Find UR lifejacket?

None of the pax onboard knew they were going 2 crash, and the hijackers didn't believe the pilot when he said they were running out of fuel.

Always keep UR seatbelt fastened when seated, like pilots do. Always strap in small children, even if U edit VOGUE. Always eat UR pudding first, never knowing when U'll finish the rest of UR meal.

My humour is my way of dealing with the fact that it could be me in that situation. Be safe. I will remove the link if it is considered inappropriate.

safety demo.
 

From a pax perspective, the safety demo is so often done all wrong. Many airlines present it as this stand alone activity which isn't an inherent aspect of the flight.

Virgin Blue's is the best i have seen at circumventing this, as the demo is incorporated more subtly into the welcome aboard announcements.

However, I would question the use of the term "disco lighting" to refer to the emergency exit and aisle lighting, as it assumes that everyone on board a) speaks sufficient English to understand the duplicity of this term and b) has prior flying experience/knowledge. However, this is probably just a part of this airline's attempt to strive for 'cute' and 'fresh', which, in my opinion, simply results in 'ditz'. While hearing announcements such as 'ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls' and 'thanks for flying my big, red, shiny toy', may engender a positive reaction in some pax, to me it is just cringe worthy.

Back on topic, has anyone ever been scowled at by the f/a while watching the demo? You know, the look which says 'I am embarrassed enough to be doing this naff demo now keep your eyes firmly planted on the seatback in front until the pain of it all is over'.

Thanks Golden Runways that's the incident I was thinking of. I DO pay attention to the safety briefing even though I have heard it probably 6 or 8 times that month, and I admit the first thing I do is check out the nearest exit to my seat. But, I still have a hard time believing that an aircraft could survive a ditching, unless you count "Airport '77" a 'course. To me, lifejackets and seat cushions aint going to help much. Reminds me of the Billy Connolly routine about the Jobee Weecha. "If ye're heading towards Manchester at 500 mph, vertically, ask the captain to aim for a puddle..."

Ozzy

Golden runways, fab job with your last comment! welldone!!

Well it looks as though I have been rightly told off about the safety briefing. As someone mentioned, what is 60 seconds out of my time.

So, as I am away on my holibobs on Tuesday, I will pay full attention to the brief, and whenever I fly.
I didnt want to give the impression that I knew it all, or wasnt interested etc, but that must be how it comes across from the CC side I suppose.

So, I consider myself well and truly told off, and will not ignore the briefings ever again.

Kindest reagrds to you all.

I had these mid thirty year old guys on my BNE to Emerald flight the other evening. I was doing my thing with the Safety Demo and the Life Jacket and these two thought it was pretty funny. (Now I can understand that it may be a little funny to see a full on safety demo - life jacket included - on a Dash 8 36 seater departing for the desert, so initially I smiled politely back at them and went on with what has to be done). By the end of the demo they were in loud fits of laughter - I am talking tears rolling down cheeks! Well, I juust happened to find this a little embarassing (humilating) and VERY distracting to my job.

Come service time, the ring leader then asked "Could you get me a VB, darl?" I said "Certainly Sir" (still smiling, still nice) "I will be RIGHT BACK!" Needless to say, everyone else was slurping on their second round of cold drinks and this rude man got his beer (singular not plural) at top of descent. :E

Moral of the story is: Never be mean to the lady in charge of the Beer cart.

Well, this forum allows you to say what you think, so here's my ten pence worth....:
I'm only a "low on the PPL totem pole" pilot who also travels Long Haul at least once per month..normally on BA 747-400's.
I have a fair idea of what the end result of a ditching will be in one of these aircraft. I also have a fair idea of the statistical likelyhood. However, should the worst happen, I am not in any way consoled by those lovely videos showing nice people stepping of the side of the A/C into what is presumably a beautiful Carribean sea. I say presumably because we never see the sea! The CAA does not require any formal testing of such an escape. They do however presume (as with evacs) that the plane is full of able-bodied people who have landed on a "moderately calm" sea and calmly left their seats in a sensible order....folks, us grown-ups just know it ain't going to be like that.

Oxygen masks... yep, needs to be shown even though most people won't have a clue in a real emergency. As for "breathing normally"....hmmm.....
Yes, I always use my seatbelt in flight...that makes real sense. I always check the exit options but the reality is that most of the other drills, like a number of things in flying, are carry backs to halcyon days.
Having said all that, I think it's still polite to show interest in the video and CC demos....it's their job and they have to do it. It's the CAA who need to get their act together on this one.
Anyway, that's what I think...... so there!

Hey Forty - our procedures have us despatching an able bodied pax onto the wing with the escape strap, rather than sending a crew member (naturally there will be a lengthy queue of volunteers) - know which company I'd rather work for! :E