Retribution
 

Many crew are concerned about retribution when making a complaint to/or about ops.The response when questioning a decision certainly make you think twice about doing it again.
As a crew member it is mostly easier to go sick rather than suffer the confrontation.Clause 11s being administered because of a misunderstanding with a scheduling clerk are also a consideration.
The clauses and sub paragraphs relating to many of our work rules can be quite complex.
Call Ops in the morning and you get one interpretation.Call in the evening and you get another.
Ops are undermanned and overworked like most Qantas departments.Fielding questions from CC can be time consuming and no doubt often frustrating.
Perhaps a working committee formed by the FAAA and OPs could go some way to alleviating and clarifying misconceptions and ultimately frustrations on both sides.
In the meantime odd rostering results lead many to believe that the system is being manipulated."D" days for those in the top 10% of a category indicate excess work over available manpower.These so called demand days can make a mess of a roster and certainly add to sick leave.

Top idea Pegasus,so what are you telling us to do,is to take a video camera into the building every time we go in or have a hidden microphone so we can record any conversation?
I think you've been watching too much TV.
Are you seriously suggesting If I had questioned the propriety of the act I had witnessed I would have received an honest and truthful answer.All I would have got would be a nice little chat with my manager and the worst rosters of my career for the next 12 months at least not to mention a reserve line from hell if not the threat of a clause 11 for false allegations.The office as everyone knows never admits anything wrong.
In fact describing my post as anecdotal clap trap shows what sort of response I would get.

By the way,you did not answer the question as why the pilots get an answer for why they did not get a trip and who got it and why when all we get is the run around.

A Tale of Two Workplaces
 

Most of us hate QCC and those that dwell in it.A very toxic place where you need to keep your voice down and head down.No laughing and no smiling allowed.Definitley no joke telling in case you offend someones delicate sensibilities.
Get on the bus and breathe a sigh of relief.You still need to check out the crew and determine who you can trust.Find the dobbers and those that have a promotion agenda and are looking to use colleagues as a springboard.
Do you job,apologize for service failures, (of which there are many)and cop the abuse.A normal day at the office.
The aircraft environment can still be fun with the right crew.At least you are out of earshot of the enemy in QCC.
As they say..once the front door closes you can be yourself(well almost)

i dont know how many times you need to be told there is no difference between the info that pilots get and flight attendants except that flight attendants are afraid to ask or are easily fobbed off

I always get an explanation if i want it and so to many crew. i also know that you are entitled to ask the question of the OT officer.

If you are met with a fob off then ring the FAAA and ask the enquiries officer to ring the duty manager.

as far as the so called bribes are concerned , i have been hearing it for 25 years and everyone has a view on it. if you have the proof you need to do something about it.

If you expect someone else to do it for you and make accusations that you are not prepared to make yourself then forget it

I have never accused anyone of anything in 25 years as i cant prove jack !!!!!. despite my personal views and theories unless there is some compelling evidence you cant do anything about it. And neither can the pilots. Given that the pilots sick leave is the lowest in the company, the open time takes about 30 minutes to do

the flight attendants open time takes most of a day sometimes its much more complicated with different EBA requirements.

Under Siege
 

Managers threatening and intimidating
Dobbing
A paper and information blizzard
Ongoing service failures
Poorly resourced
Soon to be further under manned
A hostile Ops lacking in transparency
Training courses that are now done at home
Company training websites that dont work
A roster system that doesnt deliver
Ongoing and unecessary BPRs
Dangerous cart tops
Plasitc tubs/standard units that slice fingers
Constant pressure to deliver a level of service that is unachievable
Lip service from a faceless management
An economic environment that forces you to stay

Gosh - QF crew not happy? Well I never!

Guys - can we try and lift this a little, above the level of lists of things that make you cross. You've all been behaving really well recently, and we appreciate your efforts. Thanks.

Back to you...


:ok:

Posters Not Representative
 

There are around 15/20 regular posters in Qantas CC forums.They are not indicative or representative of the broader Qantas CC community.
Those who read and moderate these posts should bear that in mind.

quick question...hope this is the right spot to ask

What is QF's policy on FA's posture during take off/landing

I know some airlines recquire them to sit in a "normal brace" position-hands beneath thigs or folded across lap, back straight, feet parallel to knees...

Brace Position for T/O and Landing
 

'Relaxed Brace position' is the position we are instructed to adopt.

for an FA, what is the relaxed brace position?

Machine Gun,by your own post that includes yourself and pegasus etc.:oh:

Pegasus,You have to be kidding,the schedulers will of course tell you the real reason and it's 100% believable and crew have no reason to doubt the info at all.
Pegasus,how exactly are we supposed to do that?

Your own post shows the type of response we would get from any allegations and unless we go in wired and have a hidden camera there is little we could do to prove anything.Pegasus,life is a little different to TV shows.

Jack Brownbill it depends which way you are facing, forward or aft.

Forward facing is lap belt and harness fastened, feet flat on floor, legs to 90 degree angle to floor, chin lowered towards chest, hands on top of knees.

Aft facing same as above except head is held up and rested back on headrest.

These are both relaxed positions if it was for an actual brace position then a more pronounced head position is required for both.

Out of interest why do you want to know?

i was curious as i always new FA's were supposed to sit in some form of brace position during take off/landing but on a recent United flight the FA just sat chatting away to the opposite passenger...

Just interested in finding out what exactly the normal FA take off/landing posture if with QF...

fairly odd question, i know

the point that i am making is quite clear. I have been hearing the same clap trap about open time for the 20 years that we have had it. before that it was the best rosters went to the people that bribed the schedulers.

It may be that it actually goes on..true

But without proof there is NOTHING that you can do. If you make allegations against another employee from ANY department you have to have proof otherwise you are screwing yourself.

There is NOTHING that can be done that i can think of, other than asking for an explanation from the OT officer.

If you are pay protected and not trading and you have 50 hours pay protection and the trip gets awarded to someone who is trading then its a breach of the EBA and trading is second.

If it goes to someone on annual leave and its the last paris trip ( and this happened) and you call the FAAA the person will be removed from the pattern, it will be awarded to the PP flight attendant and someone in OPS has a lot of explaining to do.

There are some things that we can do as flight attendants and some things that we cant, just as its your word against a police officer if caught speeding or something else there are appeals processes. some of which you have a degree of success with and some you get screwed.

There has never been a perfect system of anything in my entire life in any field that i have ever been involved in or seen and ppl will complain of faults in the system or corruption and often there is just sadly nothing that can be done.

The FAAA has been monitoring this as have 000's of crew for decades and there has never been a perfect system no matter who is in management or in the Union.

If you are looking for perfection perhaps you need to join a buddhist temple

Pegasus,you certainly are an enigma.

Firstly,you describe the comments made about OT bidding as claptrap.

So I assume you don't give any credence to them and so believe them or you wouldn't describe them as absurd and nonsensical.

Then you try to sound reasonable by saying that they may actually be true.

So which way is it pegasus,you can't have it both ways.

Peagasus,why was the initial system of open time bidding where we could see who else was bidding for a trip changed for the current hidden one Pegasus?
What are they trying to hide?
No Pegasus,all we want a system that is conspicuous by it's clarity.In other words one in which we can see what's going on and not told to join a Buddhist temple just because we want the truth.

the privacy laws changed a number of years ago and it made the publication of who was bidding for trips etc was no longer possible.

Its also the reason that names were removed from seniority lists. Crew complained that they didnt want other crew to know what they were doing.

Personally i think of lot of the so called "corruption" in ops is grossly exagerated. i dont believe its impossibe for people to be favoured over others i just personally dont see any real evidence of it

Privacy v Secrecy
 

If privacy is the concern then there is no need to publish personally identifying information. They could publish a de-identified list saying Person A is bidding against X hours pay protection, Person B is a Reserve Line Holder etc etc in their ranked order and then the winning bidder has a tick against them at the close of that day's open time allocation. When any discretion is involved in the decision a reason must also be published. All open and above board. No-one identified except for publication of the winner on the crew list. Crew members must already opt in to have their names published on crew lists anyway, why couldn't this be done for open time bidding?

At the moment it's like a card game where everyone knows the value of their own hand, the dealer (ops) collects all the cards and then announces who has the highest hand without anyone else getting to see them all. You can ask the dealer why you didn't win and all they'll say is 'someone else had a better hand.' You still can't actually see their cards, you just have the dealer's word for it.

If you're not satisfied you can call the union who will call the dealer's supervisor and ask them to check. The dealer knows how infrequently they get checked and knows that it is extremely unlikely anyone will ever find out if they give it to the wrong player. The union can't be told the players' details either because the union is not exempt from privacy laws.

Some players say they've seen others give gifts to the dealers or the dealers are friends/relations of other players.

Who would ever willingly place a bet at this casino?

obira

Only two kinds of people I can think of Obira.
The owner of the casino
Friends of the owner.

posted by PegasusI like this one because everyone know's that the chance of someone getting proof or seeing all the cards as obira put it are virtually zero.

qantas divisional transfers soon?
 

hi has anybody heard anything re divisional transfers short to longhaul? the list was updated 9 march, so maybe there will be some movement soon?

trolldolltrolldoll
 

?

i wouldn't get my hopes up

as of yesterday the company decided to reduce 1 crew on the 74's
( kangaroo and pacific a/c ), down from 16 to 15 crew

:mad: :ugh: :{

difficult times we were told and it also to deal with crew surplus...

if that is the case it would not make any sense bringing more FA's from sh to lh

But Hey...
 

Everyone gets to keep their job
If you dont like working on the jumbo...bid around it.
BTW is the Black Widow still employed?

Reducing crew on an aircraft creates an even greater surplus.
It is only being done because of lower than normal forward bookings.
On flights that are full, an extra crew member will be added on a case by case basis.
There is some good news, no more bar services in economy!

Part time at 50% is available on demand for all ranks all bases as a result of the EBA. 75% rosters are also on offer in all bases including BNE and MEL from next BP.

those crew that dont have LSL plans in place will also be given LSL. Most of the crew that came over from SH will soon be getting their LSL awarded to them as many have months in place and most dont have leave burn plans like the majority of LH crew.

Some crew have suggested that all crew take a reduced divisor however i dont believe that its a suggestion that would be supported by the majority. And it doesnt appear that its necessary at this stage.

I think that the most important thing is that we do what's necessary to reduce the risk of compulsory redundancy. Its last on first off, and despite some of the callousness expressed here from time to time i dont believe any of us want to see the new kids lose their jobs .

I have a lot of faith in the vast majority of crew that they will pull out all stops to work together to avoid CR.

I think middle management have far more to fear with the downturn than LH cabin crew. My experience is that whenever there is a downturn its middle management that tend to have less job security.

CR is something we have not known among crew for 20 years and even then the ones that were put off were employed again within 6 months.

I would suggest that many people are pulling out all stops to avoid CR and if a temporary de-crewing achieves that i think as unpalatable as it is we have to work through it

thousands of people are actually losing their jobs and their livlihoods. We should consider ourselves fortunate that we have never faced that and may yet escape it if we are pragmatic

Pegasus,I don't think reducing the divisor would be a problem with the majority of crew as long as the union publishes these ideas and tells everyone the pro's and cons and not just the points the union likes us to see.

After tax, the take home pay difference would be very little and with the divisor spread over 56 days.I think most crew would see the benefit and if it stops the company from reducing the crew complement then it's far better.Like I said before once the company has taken away the crew member it will almost take an act of God to get them to bring them back.Did the union suggest this or anything else as an alternative to reducing the crew?

I don't care what really happens with management,all I care about is the impact on crew and let's face it,management don't stand up for us when we get conditions reduced.

Interestingly, all my upcoming flights still have 16 crew on them...will they take a crew member off before the flight?? The premium loads are, some ok, some bad, some full....?

some of mine have been changed from 16 to 15 but others have stayed with 16

flitegirl
 

how will they determine 16 or 15 ?
we all know that things happen/change at the drop of a hat

its gonna be a nightmare

anyone knows anything official to clarify that ?

have not found anything

Clarification From The Mods
 

I have made two posts.
Both deleted.
Why?
If I am to learn form my mistakes I need to know what the mistakes are.

If the pattern is already allocated as 16 crew complement will they replace a crew member if one goes sick or leave it at 15?

Bla Bla and A B P - both good points to bring up. I guess we will see as we get further through the roster. I note now all my pattern codes bar one have changed

"Creation Reason: adjust crew comp. 1cfa removed from pttn" is now stated on all of these patterns

Just wondering about the actual cost saving.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Since the crewing level has been reduced by one and the rosters are already out, the dropped crew member would therefore be pay protected so regardless they would still have to be paid for the trip that was dropped.
Also,since operations have already got crew allocated on reserve, there is going to be excess crew available, so chances of crew getting a trip on pay protection is going to be less or close to nil.
Besides hotel allowances,since accomodation is already paid for via contracts, the pay protected crew will still be paid PAY PROTECTION.
Any cost savings will not occur until the NEXT bid period.
So why bother taking a crew member off now as there is no cost benefit.
It should start at the next bid period, not now.
Can anyone else see the logic, or is management in panic mode?

Shazz-zaam,The company does tend to act on impulse and then change their minds a few hours later.However,in this case I think they have been very clever.
As TBar said once we have given up the crew member a precedent has been made and they will do it again and again whenever they like."Sorry crew,We know we have made a huge profit but there is the usual slow down in forward bookings after Christmas so we will be reducing the crew by one on selected flights.
They have never replaced the crew they took off last time and given half a chance will keep on doing this latest trick to reduce the crew number.

Did the union explore all possibilities before agreeing to reduce the crew number or did they blink first in the latest game of chicken.

Also what happens if the first sector out of Sydney is light and continues to be for the next one as well but the return flights are full as the proverbial public school.Will they pax a crew member up to Singapore or LAX to make up the numbers?

I think agreeing to a lowering of the divisor during this economic mess would have been a better option but we all know the company has more far reaching objectives.

No need to lower the divisor
 

The company does not do this though. It constructs rosters in the range from the divisor to the Company maximum hours which is only half the range stipulated above. By making us bid to the divisor they have changed the range. You could argue that forcing us to bid for more hours than the EBA says creates a completely unnecessary surplus and this practice should be abandoned. Surely this is a reasonable measure which must be taken before more drastic changes.

obira

Pegasus747
 

is that available to QCCA ? or only employees under part 1 ?

part 1 only, who are not on the A380.

one crew member down on the 4 class Kangaroo
 

Can anyone deny or confirm the rumour that only Australian based crew are operating this aircraft type, one down?

no not true. To clarify (and these are not my words), if the loads are 95% or more in the premium classes then the 16th crew member will be added. BUT this is not written anywhere....interesting....nothing to do with oz based or not.

I reckon this rumour could be true, but we will have to wait and see and count how many London based crew are on each 744 flight and whether there are any done out of London with 15.
There was a rumour that when we previously had 15 before premium economy was introduced, that Melbourne base always operated with 16.
Any Melbourne basers care to confirm or deny that one?

QF9/10 MEL/SIN/MEL. think it started early last year, was due to 'service delivery issues'. i have no idea what it/they was/were. don't know if crew numbers on these sectors will be changed.

Well...If it is true ,it's very sad that the company would think of money before service....

In that regard I would be surprised if the company did it...but then again ....Nah we all know who we're talking about here.

Or is it that Twiggs is developing a sense of humour and irony with her statement?