The Virgin Strike Thread (Merged)
 

Thought some of of you might be interested in this topic ( Not just Virgin crew )

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...o_Florida.html

Take a look at pages 8 onwards especially.

This was the post that was removed

Actually I have experienced the fantastic training on aircraft.
Last time we went to Florida My 3 year old choked on a sweet. Not one of the cabin crew knew what to do. It was me that dislodged it and saved her life.(without any formal training). Although I will say they were very good at cleaning up the aftermath when she vomited everywhere afterwards. Not once after that did they even bother to check on her.
On the same flight we were stuck on the tarmac for an hour in a heatwave. With no aircon. My 18 month daughter got hysterical and started suffering from heat exhaustion. The cabin crew, however just came over and simply told me to put her lap belt on otherwise we would delay the flight further. (At this point we were still at the gate!). Not an offer of a drink for her or anything. She was purple by the time we took off. After landing we realised that she had had a febrile convulsion. What caring crew!
On another flight we had to make an emergency landing. One of the highly trained cabin crew cried the whole way down, very reassuring for passengers
Cabin crew have 6 weeks training which just gives them enough time to touch on each topic, not explore them in depth.
You should be ashamed of yourself to think that you are anywhere on par with firefighters or nurses.
As for 9/11, that was an isolated incident. Lets remember that 1000's of emergency crew lost their lives when they bravely chose to go into buidings which were highly unstable. If the cabin crew had a way out, they would have walked without thinking twice. The firefighters however did not.
I have many friends who were/are cabin crew and they don't do it for the money. they do it for the social life, the travel and the discounted flights.

Hats off to AV8babe on there, obviously argued a case professionally vs the other poster/s that kept having their post removed, lol .

I see virgin won lots of awards yesterday too, wonder if the headlines for those will be tied up with crew about to ballot for industrial action too.

be strong crew
 

Listen i have been with virgin for more than 10 years, and i love my job, but enough, is enough, i am fed up of getting paid in parties, discounts on other virgin companies, flight concessions that cant use cause i have no money etc, if virgin thinks they can get away with for ever , well sorry, but time has now come, we have come this far and we must stick together, the campaign now to get us all divided must not work! do you seriously think virgin will go down because of a stike???? i mean how many airlines ( incl. BA) have had strikes and nothing happened! if they didnt go down few years ago when they managed to pay pilots 30% !!!!!!!! more, and that probaly represents much more than giving us a 10% rise!!
So gro up people, be strong, stick to ur guns, i youll see how quickly the money comes up from under rock! ( actually, some fiscal parasise in the caribbean)!!!!!

Actually I have experienced the fantastic training on aircraft.
Last time we went to Florida My 3 year old choked on a sweet. Not one of the cabin crew knew what to do. It was me that dislodged it and saved her life.(without any formal training). Although I will say they were very good at cleaning up the aftermath when she vomited everywhere afterwards. Not once after that did they even bother to check on her.
On the same flight we were stuck on the tarmac for an hour in a heatwave. With no aircon. My 18 month daughter got hysterical and started suffering from heat exhaustion. The cabin crew, however just came over and simply told me to put her lap belt on otherwise we would delay the flight further. (At this point we were still at the gate!). Not an offer of a drink for her or anything. She was purple by the time we took off. After landing we realised that she had had a febrile convulsion. What caring crew!
On another flight we had to make an emergency landing. One of the highly trained cabin crew cried the whole way down, very reassuring for passengers
Cabin crew have 6 weeks training which just gives them enough time to touch on each topic, not explore them in depth.
You should be ashamed of yourself to think that you are anywhere on par with firefighters or nurses.
As for 9/11, that was an isolated incident. Lets remember that 1000's of emergency crew lost their lives when they bravely chose to go into buidings which were highly unstable. If the cabin crew had a way out, they would have walked without thinking twice. The firefighters however did not.
I have many friends who were/are cabin crew and they don't do it for the money. they do it for the social life, the travel and the discounted flights.


All this from one passenger? Ummmmmmm very unfortuante and very unlikely.

Strike1

You are missing a major point - the company is not trying to divide us. The fact is that the crew are divided - you only have to look at the overall number of crew who said no to the last deal in relation to the total number of crew emplyed by the company - its a minority. The company adhered to the demands of the union. They gave what they were asked for.

If you believe that BA did not suffer damaging effects from their numerous strikes, the you are very misguided. They also have the stronger brand, resources and pots more money in the bank to weather difficulties like that. A recent compensation case based on flights cancelled by strike is likely to cost BA millions. They can afford it. VAA cannot and to promote the myth that we can is foolish.

You may well have seen the communication on I-Fly stating that they have not heard from the union regarding the Industrial ballot. I asked Mr Boyd about this and the Ifly memo and why we have not received our ballot forms yet, his response (I wont cut and paste it but was worded in the following fashion)

Thanks for your email I will forward your question to MR SMITH (name changed) who is the officer responsible for VA. In order to conduct an "Industrial Action Ballot" the membership details for all our members has to be confirmed, VA are aware of this he went on to suggest that the memo that has been issued on I-fly is likely to be an attempt to disenfranchise the cabin crew from the efforts the union is making on our behalf

VCCM

It's all gone quiet.....
 

I don't often post on here and have kept well out of this argument so far. I have my own thoughts and feelings on the subject and don't want to get dragged down with all the politics. But has anyone else found that it all seems to have gone a bit quiet on board? I.e, apart from the day when the news came out about the deal being rejected, in my experience no one seems to be discussing it? At least in galley 4 anyway! To be honest, from the chat you wouldn't know anything was going on!

Is this because the crew are beyond caring? What do you think?

I can confirm boyds email in sorts as amicus contacted me last week to confirm my details, so at least something he has said is true !!!! And i certainly dont think the crew are beyond caring. Yes it has gone on for ages but i know that i aint talking about it onboard as the passengers dont need to hear it!!!! We all care about the company, just want a decent deal.

Issued recently fromt he union

Dear Colleague,

Re Industrial Update


Following on from my recent letter, I thought it would be helpful to update you on the process that will follow as we move towards the ballot for industrial action.

The process of conducting such a ballot requires a thorough check on our membership details which has now been completed. Our legal department are now also conducting a crosscheck on this information before any formal correspondence is sent to Virgin Atlantic advising them of the next step in this process.

We thought it was important, however, to remind you that your representatives are currently operating to their flying roster during this dispute with the company. Representational issues involving disciplinary and grievance procedures are, however, continuing and will be supported on your behalf by your reps.

As you are also no doubt aware, there are several outstanding issues, other than pay, still being dealt with through the grievance procedure, two of which are;

Late Payment of Allowances
The uplift in the subsistence allowances that you recently received in 2007 was in fact monies owed from 2006! – 2007 monies are still owed and have yet to be submitted to the Inland Revenue for approval, thus the delay in receiving the correct monies is still ongoing!!

Part Time Crew
Part time crew may be working too many days in relation to their contracts and therefore not receiving the correct payments. This issue should have been reviewed in August 2007 and as a result leaves the policy open to possible challenge if an agreement is not achieved.

Other Issues
Hotel moves out of Manhattan(VS017/001) into New Brunswick, not to mention the 5 hour wait for crew rooms on the Friday ANU!, issues over car park passes, promotion, missing variable payments, 900 hour roster equitability, Crew Down and so the list goes on!

It is vital therefore that as members you engage and support your representatives on all of the issues that continue to have an effect on your terms and conditions at Virgin Atlantic.

We do, however, need this support, not only in relation to delivering a pay award that is acceptable, but also in increasing our strength and standing within Virgin Atlantic, that will allow us to resolve these and other industrial issues on your behalf.

Your continued support is vital.

Yours sincerely

Strike Vote Ballot Going out on the 3rd December Result 20th December Linda Manure throwing toys out the cot on Ifly saying no further talks and no 11th hour deal will come.

Now everyone vote this time please and lets get what we are due.

From cc.com

Strike dates
 

The industrial action regulations (to my understanding) are that the first day of action must take place within 4 weeks of the LAST day of the ballot and the union should give 7 days' notice of the the first day of action.
So, a maximum of 3 weeks after the ballot before the union has to notify its intention to take industrial action, for negotiations to continue. If the union wants to and the company lets it!

And you expect people to take you seriously.......:hmm:

My thoughts exactly Capt.

I believe that there will be no more talks as there are legal requirements and constraints which now have to be met.

I also believe that LM was simply restating that there will not be a higher offer made to counter the threat of strike. Many still falsely believe that the company will be held to ransom and offer more to avert strike action. It is not going to happen.

Hardly throwing the toys out of the pram. At least VAA and Linda have the common courtesy to keep staff up to date. The same cannot be said for the Union (who it seems cannot even achieve the simple administrative task of keeping their members details up to date).

Please tell me exactly what your grievancies are ..and will it be worth striking if the company goes under in a week?

Vote NO to a strike and lets get back to flying as normal!!

Exercise your democratic right to make a choice of your own.

I will be voting YES to strike. Its about time things changed at Virgin Atlantic. They've been taking the p**** out of crew for too long and nothing has been said. We can now vote to get things changed.

Low trip pay, allowances not being paid correctly, crew down too often and not paid enough for working crew down, changes of hotel without union consultation, not being informed of delays so stuck at airport in UK or overseas even though company know there are delays, no formula for crew rest breaks on board, no long range pay and on and on and on.

Vote YES to strike

strikertworedshoes - you do get paid for dayas off, and you will lose money for every day that you are on strike. If you earn £900 per month, and there are 30 days in the month that works out to £30 per day. If you go on strike for 5 days, of which 3 days are rostered as a trip and 2 days rostered as days off, you will lose £150 of wages, not £90.

It will be worth it :ok:

It all comes down to risk versus reward. Some are willing to risk a relatively low % of their yearly salary in order to seek rewards for the rest of their careers within the airline.

What it will cost the airline in comparison to the individual crew member is huge. Crew would rather not take the risk but when backed into a corner there is no further choice and a joint front must be presented.

Perhaps other parties who have bonuses linked to turnover (which may be reduced by Industrial action) wont love the idea.

Good luck everyone.

There are probably quite a few "Other Parties" who have their livelyhood linked to their continued employment with VA. Ah well... at least BA will do better when VA are out of the way ....:ugh:

strikertworedshoes - let me explain it another way. Your salary will be divided by 365 to get a daily rate. VS will deduct that amount from your wages for every day you're on strike. You will be considered to be on strike from the first day you refuse to work until the day that you next go to work. That's the law.

Why don't you ask one of the flight deck reps next time you go to work - BALPA seems to be a much better organised and more efficient union than Amicus - they're certainly better informed.

Sorry tired, Not sure how flightdeck works but striker is right regarding the calculated value of a day off work, it is not simply salary/365 for us. Take a day of unpaid leave and it is much higher becasue of this.

Take for example this extract from another poston another forum

If we were on £55 a day x365 would on £20K basic for a junior... I dont think we would be in this situation if that was the case ;)

Yes it will be pro-rated for part time crew

Yachtnumber1
I don't think BA would be better off without VS's competition, as I believe competition is healthy for all concerned.
But then I also don't think that anything except a very lengthy strike (which I can't see happening) would bring VS down.
Do any of you VS guys & girls feel slightly miffed that the bearded one says he hasn't got the money to give you the deal you want, & yet has got the money to bail out Northern Rock? I know VS & the Virgin "empire" have different financial structures, but even so............................................
Matt.

Isn't the 'bearded one' heading a financial consortium with most of the money for Northern Rock coming from other groups and institutions? I think has financial involvement is comparatively small.

Virgin's consortium, including hedge fund Toscafund and US buyout specialist Wilbur Ross, would pay for £650m of the capital injection, including £200m from Virgin itself. The rest would come from a six-for-one rights issue of stock at 25p a share, which would leave Virgin owning 55pc of the company if shareholders take up all their rights.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai.../cnrock127.xml

You'd almost feel sorry for them....:hmm:

I was looking back to see just what it was that BA cabin crew called off their strike for, here is what they achieved.

SO that sets the benchmark then ;) <<note this wink it means something

edited to keep the peace

BA made £600 million profit last year. Virgin allegedly made...........£6 million. The BA crew also had the support of the union and followed their recommendations. I wish you the best of luck but you are a complete dreamer if you are holding out for 18%.

Certainly not holding out for anything like that, though am looking forward to the next negotiations when Amicus and T&G will have completed their merger and the experience and might of T&G will be on board.

I feel there will be some serious changes in line for Virgin. From a company that refused to recognise the cabin crew union 6 years ago to the stepping stone of Amicus, to the might of T&G, it's going to be so refreshing. I cant wait :)

BA's pay deal
 

Just to clarify that BA c.crew didn't get a 18% pay rise in the last strike threatened deal.
That figure relates to the % of the basic pay that was pensionable in the newer pension package. ie the amount of the basic pay that was pensionable went up by 18.75%.
The strike was threatened as the crew felt that there were several issues that were not being talked about/negotiated by the company & the list of "failure to agree" motions was growing alarmingly.
There was a historically large % of union members returning their voting papers, & over 96% voted for action.
Even with that level of solidarity, it was bloomin' scary/horrible stuff to go through, & the rumour mill about what BA would do to strikers was rife (& inaccurate). There was eventually quite a few crew who felt the final deal was still not good enough, the pension part of the deal in particular was not popular.
BA being unwilling to put money into the pension package, yet still posting fair profit figures & spending large sums of money elsewhere (eg the fuel surcharge affair. Thanks a lot, VS!!) & Branson refusing to pay VS crew any more yet put £200 mill into N.Rock is fairly similar to my eyes, unless I'm missing some detail.
Best of luck,
Matt.

scoobydoo

You see, your post just highlights the ignorance and lack of awareness of what you are all doing.

BA do not pay pension contributions on all the money you earn. VS do. Every penny of basic wage is pensionable.

That means that for every 100p you earn, Virgin put in 10p (or whatever) to your pension.

For the purposes of this simple explanation, let's assume that BOTH companies contribute 10% to a pension.

In BA, for every 100p they earn, BA put in a percentage (let's say 75%) of pensionable pay into a pension for you. So,again, let's say they put in 75% of pensionable pay into a pension at the same contribution rate that VS do, i.e. 10%:

100p x 10% (x75%) = 7.5p per 100p earned in a pension for you in BA

100p x 10% = 10p per 100p earned in a pension for you in VS.

Even if BA upped the pensionable pay by 18.75%, that is still less than you have put in your scheme, because it still does not add up to 100% of pensionable pay.

So, before you go bandying about 18% pay rises, why don't you read their paydeal properly and try and understand it before listening to bullsh1t.

Go on strike and the WHOLE company suffers. Other jobs WILL be lost and you will achieve nothing.

ACCEPT the paydeal and move on to the next set of negotiations in 18 months as a more unified and dignified group.

It's an inflation busting and very VERY fair deal in the business climate we are in currently.

Yours, a Virgin Atlantic A340 FO.

VS 100% of cock all is still cock all.

BA 75% of a very good wage is still good.

stansdead

...and the other side of the coin is we would love it if not all our pay was pensionable but in return we even came close to what BA cabin crew earn in non pensionable pay allowances trip pay crew down, working up, block payments, delay payments etc etc the list is endless, if we had that I would earn more per month, the company would contribute less to my pension however I could contribute personally to my pension and reclaim the governments portion on my tax return, outcome I would get more in hand and in my pension etc etc.

The reason for the post was to highlight what can and has been "achieved" through industrial action.

As to what it will cost the company and others (maybe, allegedly in jobs), I am fully aware of that too but thanks fore refreshing me on the issue.

Why are you so agressive anyway ?

p.s. its posts like yours (insinuating I have mentioned an 18% pay rise [whish I have not], use of foul language, telling us to accept the deal [when you are on considerably more than us] and move on) that probably push people who were not sure on what to vote into the yes zone, thanks :ok:

scoobydoo

Don't be so silly.

If you were not insinuating an 18.75% rise, why did you write it in bold ?

You know that your post is misleading and haven't got the balls to admit you are wrong on it.:mad:

Scoobydoo,

VS recently declared less than 0.5% ROS. I don't think you'll get any more money - sadly there will then be three groups that lose out: the crew, the company & the customers.

Accept the offer this year, and as you say go in to the next round of negotiations with your new and improved union in a stronger position.

Some posters seem to think all BA f/as are on big bucks it's not true the Gatwick contingent are on a similar rate to Easy ...:)

Wow, if that is a valid reason to strike, my teddy will be called Mohammed.


FFS - Get a life. :ugh:

Been talking to a few of the crew & there would appear to be a big move in the support the flightdeck are giving. Could that possibly be due to Pilots pay talks in January:confused: