Our airlines policy is that Unaccompanied minors are to be sat at an aisle seat only and the seat/s next door are blocked unless chockers.. Ums also are allocated seats closest to FA jump seats/Galleys. Any other airlines around with similar policies??? :cool:

This thread does not make me think happy thoughts about going back to work on Sat. In our 19 seat aircraft, we have no cabin crew, so the flight crew (specifically the FO, i.e. me) becomes responsible for the cabin. I think of a flight recently where I had 2 U.M.s I just wonder how long it will be until something ugly happens.

As a passenger, let me suggest that parents have to take more responsiblity here. I was on a flight from DC to Savannah, small jet, two seats each side of the aisle, fully loaded. Sat next to a very-extroverted 10 year old. She wanted to tell me all about her life, and exchange e-mail and home addresses so we could stay in touch. I declined and explained to her that she should not give indentifying information to strangers, and to talk with her parents about it. (Both parents were very busy professionals, and spent little time with her, she suggested.) Parents, talk with your kids before these flights. Be a friend and spend time with your kids. If you don't, others you don't want may. Maybe some of us parents have to slow down.

Why not ban UMs completely, unless they travel with a designated and responsible member of airline staff? A total ban might bother or incovenience some parents who want their children to fly unaccompanied but a ban would make a lot of sexually normal frequesnt travellers feel a lot better about flying, without being categorised as perverts as a starting point for a seating plan.

I'm an Amtrak Assistant Conductor out of Oakland. I've been on quite a few trains out here where parents dump off UMs on our trains. They're required by Amtrak policy to have a copy of their UM paperwork and to present it to the Conductor. The Conductor/ A.C. is then only allowed to turn the child over to the adult/ parent/ family member at the UMs destination. UMs under the age of 11 are only allowed to ride between staffed stations and during daylight hours only.

A lot time this does not happen. The parent goes in and buys the ticket for the UM and the station agent doesn't know he/she are selling a ticket for a UM. I've worked trains from OAK (our symbol is OKJ for Jack London Square) to SAC on Sunday evenings when parents send their kids back to their custodial parents. A few of them have the proper papers and we can somewhat can control it.

On the San Joaquin trains, however, I've UMs without the proper paper work, especially on 715 out BFD on Sundays which I've seen loads just from BFD as high as 250 alone! There are only two of us, plus the LSA and SA to watch out for them. I can't even count the times I've seen single males hit on teenage UMs. I wish we had the controls the airlines had.

Amtcndtr35

That's amazing, amtcndtr35. I checked the Amtrak web site and it says children as young as 8 can ride unaccompanied. I don't see how you keep them from getting off at the wrong stop. I ride the Northeast Corridor. I've seen some strange characters get on, and get booted off at the next stop. Also, around the 4th of July I can count on seeing thieves jump on at Newark, NJ, grab the chemical light sticks out of the fire extinguisher box, and run away. They could grab a kid just as easily. As you say, you are just not staffed sufficiently to see everything at once.

Like the other contributor suggested, I'd like to see UM's banned completely. On a commuter rail line that I have a little familiararity with, there used to be an entire private school class, all traveling on a regular basis, without supervision. The school, the parents and the railroad management couldn't seem to see the potential seriousness of the situation. One of the little girls claimed some weirdo tried to lure her into the restroom. This, in addition to the fact that, with no supervision, they were a constant disciplinary problem. The railroad manangment apparently didn't want to appear as the "bad guy" by denying them passage. I think they eventually broke down and bough a school bus. I haven't seen them lately.

Yesterday, a kid got on the wrong train, going the wrong direction. Parents use public transportation as a means of "day care" and the kids aren't savvy enough to figure out schedules, connection points and all the other details. Who cares, as long as they're out of Dad's (or Mom's) hair for the weekend and he/she can then go scoring for action at the nearest nightspot? :mad:


I brought the following over from a similar discussion thread over on "Rumours & News."

This will probably be a problem as long as unaccompanied minors are handled by public transportation.

And the kids aren't always innocent angels either. Amtrak had to modify their unaccompanied minor policy on the Los Angeles-San Diego route to a restriction of handling kids only during daylight hours. Why? Seems there was an incident of an unaccompanied female who befriended some
Marines and got off the train with them, short of her intended destination.

Camp Pendleton --- the undiscovered Southern California vacation destination! :eek:

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: ONTpax ]

ONTpax and others put it well. Having thought about it some I agree. As a passenger with a child, I say ban UMs on aircraft (and trains!). As ONTpax says, these are not day care centers, and you all are travel and safety professionals, not day care workers.

Safety to the UMs, yes. But what about safety to other passengers? Do those emergency plans you study and practice as crew take into account the presence of UMs? I read about these FAA evacuation experiments, where manufacturers try to show they can evacuate the plane in so-many seconds. Do those experiments, or your crew practice drills, include four crying UMs frozen to their seat in fear? My guess is no.

You would be guessing right, Eboy. But then, better to have something small frozen to its seat that a sumo wrestler. Who knows how anyone will react...?

But then, no doubt if we threw a UM down the shute, someone would acuse us of abuse.

It's amazing to me that so many parents don't hesitate one second to send one or all their children as UM:s. Maybe the same way they motivate sending their kids to daycare...

Anyway, if the parents are worried about their children being molested on the flight, why don't they fly with them? Surely the best way to avoid this possibility?? Unfortunately, this requires an effort by the parent...

It is interesting to know that I am concidered a possible child molester every time I travel. Maybe thats why the cabin crew gives me such lousy service :D :D

Why don't airlines sit these UMs according to their age? but again crew's are made up of both adult males and females, they might as well end up as pontential molesters..;-). I might agree with that the UM should be banned but then again again I got no kids yet so I might need to send the duo when I got them to their grand parents in the future and is cheaper to send the kid alone anyway.

Surely a good conclusion fitting both will be reached hopefully before more kids are REAL molested and innocent people are accused of things they didn't do. Kids DO tell lies sometimes so let's not over look this.

Quite, Friends. And isn't a kid more likely to lie if they know that adults around them are already palpitating with anxiety and suppressed rage over something the kid only vaguely understands... But which it knows will generate its 15 minutes' fame..?

JS, you're on the right track there. There are innumerable cases where kids lied about abuse because of the way they were questioned by therapists with a hidden agenda. Essentially, what happens is the therapist subjects the kid to an interrogation until the kid gives in and tells her (in nearly all such cases the therapist is female) what she wants to hear. It happened with a lot of adults as well before the "recovered memories" scam was debunked. The problem is that the whole area of child abuse has taken on the characteristics of a witch-hunt, to the point where a kid who alleges abuse is not only instantly believed but is rewarded with boatloads of attention while those who say "nothing happened" are subjected to endless sessions of psychobabble. Hardly surprising the choice most of them end up making.

Well, to answer the question on UM policy of Amtrak, is that UMs under the age of 11 are allowed to ride in daylight hours ONLY and with the proper paperwork between staffed stations ONLY. Does this happen all the time, NO. A lot parents just find it convienient to drop them off at the station with a ticket to send them off to the other parents. I found, one time, a kid who couldn't've been more 11 or 12 riding by himself. He said his brother, who I saw right before they got off the train and was about 19 or older, was sitting at the other end of the train had his ticket. :eek: I wasn't happy but I sent him to get the ticket from the brother and kept my eye on him the rest of the trip.

There have been times when accompanied minors have caused problems on night trains. Kids these days need more control and disicipline. I don't agree with dumping a child off on a train or a plane. I think the child SHOULD be accompanied and not babysat by flight crews or train crews. Too many things can go wrong to both the child and a possible innocent by stander.

as i'm 99% of the time up front i don't get to witness most off it but in the begining of this year we did a wetlease in France for a regional carrier. Apperantly there was a holiday period and we shipped masses of UM's from north to south and visa versa. i was not aware that there were so many children flying around!!! and most of them were frequent flyers!!! as for the seating, it was on some flight just like a shool cafeteria...the FA's were going mad.
But the point to make..it is as normal there as eating breakfast. The hysteria arround law suits is out off proportion. therefore as a wise FA said "break the chain" and stick to the rules! not the most elegant way but banning UM's is not the sullution...think about UneMploiment :rolleyes:

My vote:
Ban UMs.
Ban kids in business and first.
(and while we're at it, ban any luggage from being taken on board that the passenger can't lift!)

Seriously, though, I was SLF on a flight last night, which was due to be mostly empty and then became mostly full owing to a girls soccer team on their way from Denver to California. I was window over the wing and got two 12 year olds next to me. I helped two of them with their luggage in an effort to help get the flight out on time. No doubt I have been branded a "molesterer" (if any of you saw that recent South Park episode)
Now these girls weren't unaccompanied, but the two or three adults travelling with them made no attempt whatsoever to keep them under control of any sort. It was without doubt one of the most unruly flights I've had the misfortune of being on. Thankfully I slept through much of it - until one of the girls presumably fell out with another and lobbed a glass of water all over her, most of which ended up on me!

Am I making a point? Not really. Just need to vent. :)

OK pigeons,here comes the cat:
Has anyone heard of an accusation of inflight molestation being made by any child or young adult who wasn't American? I haven't.
A straight question. But it makes you wonder...

Although this may be slightly "off topic" because it involves a train rather than an airplane, here's another horror story in the continuing saga of unaccompanied kids on public transportation.

Date: Friday, Sept. 7, 2001
Location: Metrolink's Anaheim Canyon station
Train: Metrolink train # 804

With this being a Friday, we're treated to all the divorced parents taking their kids down to the commuter train station so they can "pawn off" those kids for the weekend to the person they divorced.

Biological Dad and stepmom place eight-year old Brandon on the train and advise me, the conductor, that biological Mom and stepdad will be picking him up at the next station downline, which is West Corona. Unlike you hosties, I am not furnished with any paper documentation showing the names and phone numbers of the parties involved in this "kid swap."

About mid-way through the trip, I ask Brandon if he has a telephone contact for biological Mom in case we don't see them at the station. I have an uncanny way of seeing these events unfold before they actually do. Sometimes the parent at the "receiving" end is "forgetful" or "confused" or "uninformed." Brandon announces that he's just moved to the area and hasn't had an opportunity to memorize any phone numbers. The only tidbits of information he can furnish me are his name and age. Wonderful. Just as I expected, when we arrive at West Corona, biological Mom and stepdad are nowhere to be found. I delay the train for a good five minutes, waiting for the mass of exiting passengers to disperse and allow us to see if his Mom is anywhere to be seen. No such luck. I decide to take Brandon to the train's destination, San Bernardino, and figure on turning him over to the police there. They can then sort out the mess. As per procedure, I have to call Metrolink's operational headquarters and advise them of what's happening. For reasons I can't quite understand, one of the clerks there calls my immediate supervisor and advises him of what's happening. He then calls me and more or less wants a continuous minute-by-minute appraisal of the situation. I might be exaggerating a little here, but, the point is, he's now in the mix of it all, in addition to the operational headquarters.

Brandon suddenly makes the proclamation "OH! Sometimes my mom meets me at the Riverside - La Sierra station", which, as it happens, is the next station downline. Sure enough, at La Sierra, we finally find biological Mom and stepdad.

Observations:

<> If we're going to assume the role of daycare center and provide free babysitting services, all for the cost of a train ticket, you'd think the parents could at least come to an agreement as to where the kid should be received off the train. These yo-yo's couldn't even accomplish that much.

<> All for the revenue of a $5.00 ticket, I had to make two cell phone calls (one to advise operational headquarters of the problem, another to advise them that the crisis had been solved), and received one from my immediate supervisor. Calculate, also, the time and money involved of having three (or more) employees devote their energies in an effort to take care of this problem.

<> All of the other duties that I could have done were, more or less, put on "low priority" while I was handling this situation.

<> If there had there been a more important crisis evolve (running over a trespasser, as an example), I would have had to bump the "unaccompanied kid" crisis to a lower priority. This might have opened a "window of opportunity" for a child molestor to have his way with this kid, while I would have been preoccupied with other details such as walking the right-of-way counting body parts and dealing with emergency personnel and the coroner. :eek:

<> Had I allowed the kid to get off at the first stop, West Corona, and if anything bad had happened to him, you can be assured that it would have been my ass on the carpet for not handling the situation "correctly." I just love having parental responsibility rammed down my throat as a requirement of my job. :mad:

<> Once, during a similar fiasco like this, we did have to turn the kid over to the police at San Bernardino, as his "receiving party" never showed up. To this day, I still remember his emotional state, realizing, more or less, that no one wanted him that particular weekend. I think the cops finally sorted it out, but what a price to pay just to get parents to act responsibly. :mad:

<> I think the fact that the commuter rail agency gets taxpayer money for its operational budget requires them to provide this "social service." You don't bite the hand that feeds you, and if the taxpayer dollars coming from divorced parents keeps you afloat, you haul their kids around from point "A" to point "B" and you smile while doing so. They have a lot of political clout. Any discussion of banning UM's would never be seriously considered. :eek:

<> If there will ever be any reforms, it will only be after a kid is molested, injured or killed. There is no such thing as proactive responses. :mad:

<> Sometimes I wish the cell phone had never been invented. It's hard to do your job and have to handle endless calls, both received and transmited. :rolleyes: