QANTAS: The Thread II
 

The following is a cut and paste from the D&G forum.
It illustrates a situation where an airline attacks it's own operational staff in an effort to force them from their jobs.

IS it a "window" into the situation now facing those of us at QANTAS????

If so it is a VERY dangerous ploy to use on the FRONTLINE staff of a FULL SERVICE carrier like ours.

I'm not going anywhere, anytime as I have a mortgage and a family to feed but the more I am kicked, bullied, intimidated and harrassed by my "management team" the MORE determined I will be to RESIST their efforts, WHATEVER THEY ARE, at EVERY LEVEL.

Food for thought for those of us at the rat?
---------------


Revealed: Aer Lingus 'quit or be pushed' plan
From Irish Independent:
(need to be registered)
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independ...&issue_id=12759

AER Lingus developed a 12-point plan to make life difficult for its employees in order to persuade 1,800 staff to accept voluntary redundancy.

The plan included:

* Suggesting the airline would introduce a tacky uniform for cabin crew.

* Tedious training programmes for some pilots.

* Deliberately changing shift patterns to make life at the company uncomfortable.

According to one informed source there was also a suggestion that cabin crew, including older air hostesses, would have to abandon their current uniform for jumpsuits and t-shirts.

The total plan is documented in a confidential Aer Lingus report called "Business Plan - HR (Human Resources) strategy 2004".

The 12 initiatives designed to make life difficult for staff are referred to in the documents as "environmental push factors".

A spokeswoman for the company acknowledged that the document had been drawn up by Aer Lingus but dismissed it as a "discussion document". She said: "Those tactics have never been embraced by either the past or present management team."

Nowhere in the 40-page report is there any suggestion that it is a draft or discussion paper.

It states that initiatives to make life uncomfortable for staff were essential to the success of the voluntary severance scheme which was, in turn, essential for the success of the business plan.

The report states: "Environment (sic) push factors are key to driving applications (for the voluntary severance scheme)". The document then details the 12 "push factors".

Top of the list is: " 'Tap on the shoulder' of all relevant superintendents." This is understood to be a reference to 200 supervisor-grade employees who were individually approached by senior management and told they had no future with the company.

The second "push" factor listed calls for performance improvement plans. Sources said these were designed to put staff under pressure at work. The third push factor listed is "attendance management".

One of the more controversial initiatives in the plan comes in at number four and is titled "adverse changes in work/shift patterns". Adverse shift changes would make life at Aer Lingus particularly difficult for employees with families.

The fifth of the strategies outlined is "called lack of availability of IWSL". This is a reference to "In Week Special Leave" which gives cabin crew the option of flexible working arrangements.

The ninth "push factor" is called "assignment to resource centre". It is understood this initiative was aimed at surplus pilots who would be assigned to the centre, known by some staff as 'Guantanemo Bay', where they would spend weeks on training modules which, according to one source, were considered by pilots to be boring and tedious.

A number of the 12 points have already been implemented. These include number 10, "no transport", which is a reference to the abolition of the special bus which ferried cabin crew working unsociable shifts to and from airport car parks.

Other initiatives include "closure/reduction of bases", "significantly reduced overtime" and "working contracted hours".

The HR strategy also deals with plans to reduce employment levels by outsourcing services such as catering and cleaning. Under the terms of an EU regulation written in to Irish law, the 1977 Transfer of Undertaking Protection of Employment (TUPE), the new contractor is obliged re-employ existing staff.

According to the report the way to avoid transfers is to make TUPE offers "unattractive". It states: "An 'unattractive' TUPE offer will give surplus staff the option to transfer to new service provider with no exit package, reduced pension rights and lessened security of employment."

Tom McEnaney

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not a dull moment
 

as i mentioned many month ago GD is having a great time at the "toaster". until now. given that the board has recently been not too happy with various parts of the business (AO, jetstar asia, qf catering, LHR base, some associated businesses) , madam jackson has been tapping GD on the shoulder. i think the time frame has been set for next year when peter gregg will take over. as always we will be still here watch out office guys/girls, you are as allways first in the firing line. dont take on any big mortgages is my advise. peter being a specialist in risk management can and will see that there are too many chiefs and not enough indians.
also the new transport minister with his comments in the australian regarding qf being sydney centric has more then a good point. with BNE and MEL having few red tails on the international departures he is effectively given notice to qf and madam jackson.

And maybe now, finally, we will again see the demise of an ex crewmember turned traitor.
Lee Peterson was the architect and manager who set up the London base.

She used to be crew; shame, shame, shame on you.
But at least she did dig her own grave....

:O

Just what the company needs...an accountant who looks at everything as a number..

Accountants are advisers, I remember the distinction well they record the result of decisions made by others. They count they don't decide..

It just gets better and better:uhoh:

Apparently,no one has been stood down,although crew have been searched.
It is amazing how many people have been spreading that text message about 32 crew being stood down,rumours spread fast in this business.
I wonder where JBM is,at breakfast the other day in Brisbane , I overheard a family talking about their VirginBlue flight and the husband said that it would have been easier to win Lotto than get the attention from the crew on board.So maybe they are good at face painting but not so good at the basic reason they are there.

"It is amazing how many people have been spreading that text message about 32 crew being stood down,rumours spread fast in this business."


I recieved the message from 7 seperate people.
These messages were sent in an effort to protect me and the hundreds/thousands of others who recieved them from our own management's attack.

A perfect illustration of the posionous level of mistrust CC have for the visitors on the ground.

Is management at Qantas so bereft of creative and constructive ideas for the business that all they can do is level attack after attack after attack at it's own ???

What a sad, negative and pathetic way to run a business.

Hundreds of crew searched it seems and not a single count of theft found ??

Its obvious that the thieves at Qantas are further up the food chain.

They are the ones ripping the heart out of the business in an effort to line their own pockets.

The London base is in a shambles at the moment. 3 crew have been arrested for drunken behaviour and ended up in a Bangkok jail. 2 have been released, 1 still remains there. Another LHR crew member was completely intoxicated in Singapore and was sick in the hotel lobby in front of hotel guest and management. Reports still coming in of aircraft left in a disgraceful state after sectors, Thai based crew being used to cover massive amounts of sick leave and people leaving. Little wonder passengers are leaving in droves to Emirates and Singapore Airlines.

Total Crap
 

Bad Adventures another total crap story.

I was in BKK, one person was detained for a very minor incident and it is over now. Not 3 people as there was a group on a night out and one had a misunderstanding so much that you would not even get a caution back home. Lets put it down to cultural differances.

LHR base is going to start to feed back every little bit of "nit pick" from now on. It's a joke, evertime something is not done on a hand over to me I just let it go because it's not that big of a deal but 2 can play that game from now on. I could write a list from every trip but never bother as it can be fixed so easly by just understanding other people have work to do.

This thread should be changed to I hate everything because I'am so bitter. It's the same old heads, check out the LHR results at the next roadshow. Please don't make me laugh that the board is unhappy with GD. He is the golden child even the second coming of JC.

Trust me, turn your hate into a positive and now stories about other airlines are being joined in on the qantas thread to make your pathetic stories more appealing in your hate campaign.

I'am still waiting for the base closure notice that was offical 6 weeks ago according to the thread nazis.

Peanut Pusher
If they didn't complain we wouldn't have a thread!!!!!

I see SMH is saying Jetstar Asia has taken over Valuair.

Peanut Pusher,

Cause and effect.............

Peanut Pusher,Now I have heard it all,GD is the next JC!!!!!

I knew that there are alot of QF sycophants out there but you take the cake with that one and of course we all believe what the company roadshows say don't we!!!!!

Hold on ,there is that formation of pigs flying past again

minor incident
 

peanut pusher is stealing a minor incident? you have been writing and reading too many bu**s**t stories in your office.
why did a team of management go to london? sightseeing? i dont think so

Peanut Pusher,

While we are talking about the LHR base and that you are one of those on the inside will you EVER confirm or deny that there is an hour limitation that is lower than the 240 hour mark that the base was calculated on?

or are you going to keep dodging this question????

valueair and jetstar asia to merge by years end. according to sin straites times reports it going to be called orange star. ken ryan is still going to be ceo.

Meanwhile that is another $40 million dollars we have had to spend to prop up Jetstar Asia to make the deal appealing.

I wonder if that will have an effect on JC's sorry GD's bonus

Now there's an ugly thought,GD in drag!!!!

Guys I have just started my training with Qantas UK and all I can say is that everyone in my course and all the trainers are great. Almosrt everyone in my course has very good experience and we are looking forward to work for Qantas and give our best. Please lets be positive and encourage those who have just started in UK. It is not our fault and there is no point in bitching about each other. I am not English or Australian but I can represent Qantas like the best. We had to go through a very hard selection process so it means that they havent chosen just anyone. I havent had the chance to talk to anyone who is already working for Qantas UK. There are a few questions I would like to ask you because I am bit shy to ask in class. How much money do you normally get in your bank account after tax? And how much do you get cash per day when you are on a night stop? Are you enjoying it? Did it meet your expectations?

Cheers

Yes... I know what some of you are thinking... but he/she is young, keen and happy and we were all like that once! Be gentle, pretty please ;)

Camaron
Welcome to QF.
Things like after tax pay and allowances are probably best left to a quiet chat with colleagues in the back galley.
Also I am not LHR based so couldn't give accurate amount.
Am I enjoying “the job”? After more than 25 years…hell yes.
Did it live up to my expectations? Yes and no. It has changed a lot in those times and I have had to learn to role with the punches/changes. But the fun I have had on board, in slip ports and at home have made up for it.
Enjoy

Amazing how much crap is invented on this thread.

Re the security checks - they are performed by an external security company, not QF employees.

Re the 32 crew reportedly stood down, the facts have now emerged that it was the QF32 that was searched (not others).

The "crap" you are refering to re the searches wasn't invented on this thread.

It was a [sent by the thousands] text message that was bounced from individual crew member to individual crew member warning each other of what we believed was an attack against us.

Sad yes, however completely understandable given the industrial environment we are subjected to and created by, QANTAS management.

What difference does it make whether the searches were carried out by QANTAS employees or sub-contractors?????

Nothing.

Except the fact that QANTAS doesnt have to pay subcontractors a living wage.................

Par for the course at the rat, no????

I don't see what the big deal is about having your bags searched, unless of course you are guilty of theft or have something to hide.

As for a random bag search being an "attack" on crew......

Do you pipe up when you are asked to have your bag searched in a shopping centre when leaving a store by their door greeter, and say that it is an attack on you for simply being a shopper???

At the end of the day they (QF) are allowed to search bags, and they chose to do so. Why are people so upset about it? Nothing to hide, nothing to worry.

Have a great day,

RaverFlaver :)

GD is the new JC - JULIAN CLARY ?

:D

Camaron,

congratulations on your position with QFUK.

Make the very most of your new job at every opportunity.

If you intend a career in this industry you would be well advised to apply to BA ASAP. THEY ARE RECRUITING.

If unsuccessful keep applying until you get in.

You will be treated with respect by management, recieve better pay and conditions, career progression, excellent union protection/respresentation, better network, transfer opportunities etc,etc.

Best of all at BA you will be a full time employee of the actual company as opposed to a "shaky" offshoot subsidiary who's parent company operates out of the other side of the world.

Don't forget that QFUK is the bastard child of GD and LG, who's days at QF are clearly numbered...........

Raver...you should have a problem with bag searches! Basically your employer deems you guilty until you prove yourself innocent! Makes for a great working environment?

If it was a solo operation and I was the only FA on board, i.e a dash 8, and that happened, then your statement maybe the case. However there are 10 crew (flight deck included) on the aircraft I work on, so why would I feel guilty if I knew I had taken nothing from the aircraft.

Cheers,

RaverFlaver :)

Thanks TightSlot you are such a nice person and thanks for the compliment although I am 33 male and have receding hear. But yeah I must admit I feel young.

Jetltager, I applied for BA only once and didnt get it. Anyway I would have to wait at least a couple of years to do long haul. And although the money is a bit better in BA it is not like in the old times. Dont know but here all the managers seem to be really nice. Anyway I come from another airline where the conditions were much worse. I still think I have been very very lucky to get Qantas. I remember people who came from Australia just for the interview.

Thanks guys for the info

Recently heard that cross crewing between the LHR crew base and Australian based crew will not be allowed to occur under any circumstances. Flights just will leave short crewed if necessary.

missed the point
 

Raver you have fallen into managements hands.
I find having your bags searched in hotel lobbies and public places humiliating, all crew have been placed into the same basket and branded "thieves"
I find the whole idea of being searched as degrading, it just shows how much contempt management have for us.
They will never stop the thieves just by conducting ramdom searches, all that does is upset the majority of innocent, honest crew.
I recently spoke some of the staff in Singapore and Hong kong and they stated that they had no idea that there was such a high level of crime within qantas.
When I asked them how they come to this conclusion they stated that they have never seen any other airline conduct searches on crew in the scale that QF has been doing.
They will be targeting AO soon, then tell me how you feel being searched in the lobby of a hotel after doing a long sector and all the check in counter staff looking at you..

Qantas inquiry

Author:
Publication: The Australian (002,Thu 21 Jul 2005)
Edition: 2 - All-round First
Section: Local
Keywords: Qantas (4)

A POLICE investigation has been launched following an incident involving a Qantas staff member in Bangkok, Thailand.

A Qantas official said last night the airline would not comment on the nature of the investigation.

She also declined to comment on reports Qantas was looking into claims of theft of company property.

Hey Peanut Pusher I guess we put this down to cultural differences. You’re the ultimate company spin doctor for the LHR base! The ‘GD being the 2nd coming of JC’ comment is the best I’ve ever heard. It’s certainly easy now, not to believe a single word that comes out of your mouth. Keep up the good work!

:ok:

Tow-Truck.

It seems some people are just more sensitive than others. I find having my bags searched in a hotel lobby in front of staff, no big deal. There are far more worse / embarrassing things in the world than having your bags searched.

Have a good night.

RaverFlaver :)

Raver Flaver,

The way you are carrying on it sounds like you would enjoy it.

Weird..........?

JC was in relation to the boards opion D...Heads
 

If you think GD's job is in anyway in jepody you are playing with both hands.
He will deliver another record profit next month and will recieve the usual pats on the back all round.

Q1,I don't know about the duty time limits as I havn't had a minute to spare to check it out but will this week.

Q2,BKK incident, I was there and nothing involving company property was involved. The incident was sky larking and is now under control and much less of an incident compared with things of seen in the past.
Don't want to say too much as it's that crew members business and the qf rumour mill is out of control at the best of times.
No 5kg of coke like gecco in LA and the other trafficers we had in SYD over the years.

LHR base is going well and on track for all KPI's, hope to shut a few posters mouths permantly with another round of outstanding customer feedback results.

Well informed?
 

Mr. P Pusher
..for a cabin crew member you are just a little too well informed.It detracts greatly from your credibility.I know for a fact that the LHR base is in deep KAKA.My sources are closer to Dixon and Gregg than yours..count on it.You are doing some huge spin doctoring or else you are regurgitating what some one else is telling you.If it is the latter you are being lied to.The LHR base is nothing more than a union breaking exercise that is costing a lot more than was envisaged.
Don`t be surprised if it is closed down when Son of Dick leaves.

Peanut Pusher,

1: How long does it take to know about the hour limitations?You seem to know or claim to know everything else and this issue has been mentioned for at least a month now.So I will take it that there is a lmitation on hours

2:was the issue or cultural misunderstanding over the alleged theft of a clock?

3: You really sound like either one of the brainwashed or management ,either way one of the sycophants who push the same line.

4: The only reason for the LHR base' existence is to diminish the amount of flying done by Sydney based crew and if it was to save money by reducing accomodation costs and allowances why are there so many Thai based crew operating to LHR and doing standby's for 5 days straight.

6: The KPI's as you are so fond of would be good for the LHR base but at the expense of the BKK base crewing so many Thai based crew.

7: If the company was so fond of efficiency why is there no cross crewing as there is with other bases

LL, the duty duty hour limitations as set out in CAA document 371 re: crew duty hours are only applicable to crew working on UK registered aircraft. So unfortunately the LHR base is not covered by said document. I have spoken with several of the English hired crew who are not happy about this and are investigating it further. They feel that they are English and therefore should be covered by UK law, not Australia. Mind you nearly all of the English crew I have spoken to in slip ports are waiting to hear from BA (they are hiring 2000 crew apparently). So maybe the base will cost even more due to hiring and training of new crew in the not too distant future.

2 - Yes it was about the theft of a clock.

3 - Peanut is a CSM

4 - They are only saving on hotel bills in the UK but in reality spending more money on hotels in Asia. They also save a small amount by not paying overtime on long range sectors.

7 - I remember reading something from the FAAA last year advising they would not allow cross crewing with the LHR base. Can you imagine the punch ups that might start? The base doesn't have seniority either so how would Oz based crew fit in work position wise?

I think it would be great if QFUK and mainline crew crossed,it would give these new local hires a bit of experience,cos they are all workin as slow as each other,its rather embarassing workin with them,it takes 3.5 hours to do a simple supper.I must admit I aint the quikest girl with the trays,but gettin a service done compared to sydney crew is a long long process.And leave the girl in bangkok alone.i believe it was the local police attacking her that caused the problem.

str,
Thanks,the reason I am wondering about the financial viability of the LHR base is why the huge number of Thai crew operating on their flights and also why are there thai's doing 5 days standby's at a time? Why are they also cancelling some flights when there is an embargo on staff travel the loads are suppose to be very high

The cost of accomodation must be huge in comparison to 4 Thai crew arriving on a flight.

I have nothing against the crew employed by QFUK but people there and in QF QCC have to understand that this base has taken away a lot of flying for us and that means money and whenever you jeopordise peoples income they are bound to get upset.However,I do not hate anyone , I am just dissapointed in the company's continued attitude.If the company really wanted to save on hotels..etc..then why did they not offer a base in LHR to the techies?

The answer is that they want to get rid of as many Australian based cabin crew by stealth,so much for the spirit of Australia

There would not be one crew based in Australia that would lose a moments sleep if the base folded,it isn't about the crew over there just the principle of the matter

My 2c worth
 

I can promise you LG, JB and GD couldn't be more happy with the LHR base.
It just came through it's first management review in SYD with flying colors and will be published with end of year results.

1,Most embargo's were lifted on LHR base flights 3 weeks ago.
(BA & QF have taken turns at cancelling one flight a week as I posted 5 weeks ago)

2,UK Duty limitation does not seem to apply as I'am trying to get more info but op's say it's business as usual. Most rosters are 186hr per 2 month.

3,Lower and crew, do you think if they opened a base in Hawaii with $25,000 relocation allowance, work 2 to 3 days a week.
3 to 4 days stand down ater each trip there would be a continual hate campaign like this ??? I think the wait list would be as long as your arm.

4,No I'm not a management hitman, just a LHR csm trying to do my job with continual lies from my old work mates. I will wear it if it's real but can't stand the bullshi_ rumours. I try to keep informed so I can tell my crews the real story not the rumours that put a hand break on this great airline.

5,They wouldn't mix the two bases at the moment for fear of a full brawl onboard. (I'd love to get a few in on some) just joking.

6,Yes I understand why everbody is pis_ed off but so was I and decided to make it work for me and not persist with a fight I know I'll never win.

7, Please another topic and I promise a full review after 1 year, 2 years etc.

8, There is no more than 4 Thai crew on stand bye in LHR at the airport hotel on a rate of 38quid per night will training and ep's take place. (please check my other posts for the reasons, some crew not coming last minute etc, greater reserve coverage, 2 x crew sacked for staff travel breeches etc etc)

9,Watch the BKK base, little birdy has been looking at an expansion program. Now that base has done more damage than any other in LH history.

10, BA have many O/S bases aswell, Argentina comes to mind and ask the 22,000 who got the shown the door after 9/11 to asked back later on much less wages. QF is just like UA,AA,BA etc etc trying to get a better deal for itself and compete against government subs. and oil rich airlines.

11, I'am waiting for someone to blame the Iraq war and terror attacks on GD,LG and the LHR base. Thats how much blame and crap gets shoveled our way.

Piece to all crew