I'm going to run out of "chill pills" soon!

jakejet,

I dont want this post to turn into a heated arguement. You do have some valid points in your posts. I totally agree with you. From day one the first thing our instructor wrote on the board was 2 words, "INTENSE and FUN" ---> that is what EPs is all about! And they were absolutely correct!

Now lets come to the FUNNY side of things.

I am sure you also had your funny moments (if you are a flight attendant and if you did EPs training) so ease off a little. We only started last week and we are being bombarded with new information everyday. Its a learning process and its not like we were all "issued with an EPs certificate at birth"!! It takes time...hence why it is called TRAINING.

I think people need to be a little even tempered when it comes to reading posts because it really S#ITS ME when you have people telling you off, when all you are trying to do is radiate the good vibes you get from doing something you absolutely love across to others!

Having funny experiences is a part of the EPs process. Especially the first week. Obviously people are going to stuff up and we are all going to laugh at it together and LEARN from our mistakes...and make sure we do not do it again. AND let me tell you that I will be more than happy to welcome you on one of my flights Just to prove you wrong!

If I was as bad as you thought I was, I dont think Qantas would have missed it and I am sure I would have been issued with a warning...but my results from exams and practicals indicate otherwise! So no further comment.

Rollz :ok:

I don't think it is a MAM thing, please don't blanket all casuals as all having the same view as a lot of casuals are a damn lot better than some permanent crew! In regards to safety etc, have you ever really watched/listened to some permanent crew do the safety demo or the overwing briefing? A lot of them are terrible and obviously take safety seriously enough to warrant them doing it correctly! As i said, when Adecco were doing the interview some absolutely shocking people came online and unfortunately it is a little hard to get rid of them! I honestly can't believe some of the people i've worked with casual and permanent. I also believe saftey should be taken extremely seriously, ie i was on a Virgin Blue flight once when one of the Flight Attendants got a passenger up to do her safety demo, this is totally unacceptable for so many reasons. Yes, EP's are a serious time all the time, moreso when you're new and you have never heard the info before in your life, therefore you should be concentrating even more, however you do need a laugh every now and then to break up the stress etc of the day.

Anyone get a shortlist email?

I read (elsewhere) that an email had gone to an applicant saying they would be on an (infamous) shortlist for 6 months.

At least they have some closure. I think a call to check my email has been recorded properly is in order, as I have not even got the "progress reports" that others on here have got.

JB

Fingers crossed

I support jakejet 110%, over the past couple of months the standard of new crew is getting worse and worse and their attitude to serious aspects of the role including EP's never ceases to amaze me.

I recently flew with 2 girls who had never been on an aircraft before joining MAM, needless to say there were a few tears on arrival after passing through a thunderstorm on decent into Sydney. I use to admire my fellow crew for their ability to cope with any situation but when the tears and screams start flowing from crew during turbulence you have to wonder what the hell's going on.

Long term MAM casuals are a totally different breed with more life and work experience and usually a joy to work with Im talking new recruits from the past 10-12 months (and not all by the way just a large majority). I could care less about age but the majority that I have flown with aged 22 and under have no life experience and cant even cope with being away on a 3 day trip. There are mature young adults and immature young adults and sadly QF/MAM has taken quite a few of the latter in recent times.

Another problem is a lot of good people will not accept casual anymore, it does appear we are getting some people who would normally be rejected at the assessment centre purely because they are prepared to accept casual. 2-3 years ago this wasnt the case as Im sure any MAM casual employed 3 years ago would have expected to at least been given the opportunity for permanent employment. NOW people on the outside know there is zero chance of this happening therefore instead of the old attitude of I will take casual as it may lead to permanent has been replaced with bugger that Im not going to be a casual for ever so we get whatever is left and thats people like the above who have never flown in their life.

Furthermore as longer terms casuals are now realising its not impossible but VERY VERY difficult to borrow money for a car or house. The flexabilities of being a casual are gone and replaced with more of a part-time style of work without the benefits and yearly the old tease comes out that maybe just maybe we will employ some of you into permanent jobs and never do. The last MAM casuals converted to permanent was in 2003, over 2 years ago now.

Sadly this is byproduct of the Qantas strategy of no permanent employment and something we just have to accept.

In repsonse to GalleyHag - I have flown with older mature/immature crew who have never flown before and been like you have described the younger ones with less life experiecnce to be like. Just because people are older doesn't mean they have more life experience....there are some seriolusly boring people out there who I think have sat around just watching life go by without any experiences.....

Your post is only one side of the coin really. Both sides are exactly the same.

In terms of safety/eps/demos, like oz mentioned, I have seen some shockers from young crew and some shockers from older experienced crew - being that from my last recurrent eps session.

Just wanted to highlight it's not all young crew who have never flown before that are like what you describe, it's across the board.

Have a great night

RaverFlaver :)

How depressing is the following information from the FAAA Victorian branch www.faaa.net. This is just 2 parts of the newsletter I thought would be relevant to this thread:

5 May 2005

Attention All Victorian Based Long Haul Cabin Crew

Sadly the end of Bid Period 237 will see several of our colleagues on fixed term contracts and secondment leave our ranks. Priority of employment will be offered to these individuals over the next 6 months. However, the Company has categorically stated that there will be no additional employment within Australian Long Haul in the near future. I therefore urge all affected members to submit applications to all areas of flying within the Qantas Group as soon as possible.

Having worked with many of these crew, I can only commend them on their commitment and the contributions they have made during their employment.

The Future of Flying?

The Association is aware of the angst of members regarding the continuing reduction of traditional flying out of Victoria . Qantas CEO Mr Geoff Dixon has made it abundantly clear that the Company, through its Sustainable Futures Program, will seek to achieve maximum cost efficiencies. In doing this, the Qantas Group will restructure its workforce as required, and Long Haul Flight Attendants are not exempt. Management have stated that there will be an alignment of flying to achieve the greatest degree of productivity within the terms of the EBA.

The Association will actively campaign to avoid marginalisation of the Long Haul Division and while many of the changes may be unpalatable, they will be inevitable. We will continue to look to the future with our primary objective being to maintain employment for ALL Australian Based Long Haul Flight Attendants.

galley hag get a life!
 

Too funny!

Have not posted for about 6 months. Relocated o/s, done my training, travelling the world, live in a gorgeous villa ( not that I have time to enjoy it ) just LOVE IT. Interesting to see the same rubish printed here ages ago by the samer losers, STILL saying the same old crap. Get a life!

My old mate Chinup - translation of your post - still living in a caravan out the back of mum and dad's house, took the afternoon off from the fast food restaurant to catch the skybus to tullamarine to watch the planes.

Glad to see not much has changed with you either, I will keep my own life thanks im pretty happy unlike you.

Thanks but no thanks!

Oh well, the day arrived where I finally got some closure and feedback after 9 long months of waithing after the interviews... the dreaded email...

Fortunatley since the time of the interview I have realised that this is not the be all and end all. Actually with my life leading me out of WA in the near future to the eastern states of Aus and beyond it is fortunate really that I wont be in a MAM role for 6 months then have to resign when I move east.

There are plenty more oppurtunites in the eastern states I know, so I will give it another shot in 6 months when im over there!

Good luck to everyone else!

JB

JB

You have waited so long...only to hear this? Dont worry...you deserve alot better anyway. I am sure there will be some permanent positions coming up after 6 months time.

Keep your chin up!

Rollz :ok:

I see you have now been through the QF Brainwash, permanent positions, yeah right, keep dreaming!

jb_flyer, so sorry to hear that things didn't work out at this time. I'm glad to see you are looking ahead to other opportunities, when one door closes another one opens. There's so many of us on here that are testament to that!

Stay positive and focussed and jump right in to what life throws your way. I know you'll get there in the end. :ok:

well everyone i finally have received an inviation for a medical for the fixed term cabin crew position ex Perth. It has been a long wait almost 9 months !!! Everytime I push it out of my mind WHAM they call me......

Let you know how it goes,

Suelle x

Well done Suelle! Its heartening to know that someone else who went through the same things as me got a good response!

I hope they can offer something more concrete then a shortlist position, lets face it permanancy is a pipe dream, but even casual is better then a shortlisted position followed by a thanks but no thanks at the end!

The only thing (and honestly its the only thing) is that I had a MAM application progressing at the same time as the QF one, and they considered them to be the one and the same. If that had of been the case, I wouldnt have bothered struggling to take the 2 extra days off work for the second interview and second panel interview when they were simply disregarded. Oh well, for first attempt all the practice is needed!

Thanks for your well wishes, hey if I got in first time I would consider myself VERY lucky! Especially after reading all the troubles people on this board have had and the hoops they have jumped through to get the positions!

See you all in the sky! I have some flights coming up... so I will be watching enviously from the departure lounge and in the seats!

JB

Suelle!!!

Well done, hopefully will see you online soon! so what is this fixed term position they're talking about? How long is it for? and what will happen at the end of the contract? your guess is probably as good as ours!

Oz

Sorry to hear it wasn't your lucky day, jb. Know you've been wanting this for ages.

I had the opportunity to meet up with Craic at the EK Open Day today, she's in a similar position, tried with EK so many times, can't get an interview with DJ (wish I could give her my place!)

It'll be your day soon JB. I hear NJS are looking/will be looking again soon.

Congrats Suelle, how long is your contract?

Sky

hi,

well I went and did the medical yesterday, gosh its really in depth !! I was in their for almost 2 hours...... the position is a fixed term 11 month contract. Originally when I was first interviewed they said it was a long haul position, but with all the restructuring Qantas has done, I guess it may be short haul. They are letting me know within two weeks - three weeks of the outcome.
I think I will keep my current job if I get the cabin crew position and do both. My position where I am at now will allow me to do casual hours.

suelle

xox

It will be interesting.

Especially how that will affect the current PER casuals. PER already has SYD/MEL casuals doing PER flying which has seen a drop in PER casuals' hours, if they employ a group of people in PER short haul on full time rosters for 11 months, i wonder how that will affect casuals' hours? Time will tell.

Oz

Ozcabincrew

If the shoe was on the other foot and you were being offered fixed term or full-time flying out of Sydney/Melbourne like MAM's are currently getting (for a limited time) out of Perth from the east I highly doubt you would care less how this would effect other MAM casuals.

I know there is another thread in regard to this very topic but a casual is a casual you shouldnt expect anything more or anything less.

QFRegional

i'm not having a go at the people who have come over because of course, if something is going to benefit you, you are going to do it. I am however having a go at QF for stuffing PER casuals and casuals in other bases for that matter around. There are casuals in Perth more than willing to take a roster for the month, but instead QF decide to bring people over from interstate and accommodate them for the month and give them the roster aswell. Because of this situation, PER casuals HAVE been disadvantaged, something that supposedly wasn't supposed to have happened in the first place. It was even brought up to management who agreed it was a big stuff up from the start.

I understand completely what the meaning of casual is, as i am sure every other casual is aswell, but thanks anyway :suspect: . I understand no guaranteed hours etc blah blah blah, but there is no point ruining a system that was working and making it harder for people when there was no need.

Oz

QF can and does whatever it likes, you are employed by MAM and if MAM via QF choose to give other casual employees opportunities like a temp basing in Perth that is their choice. The system that you speak of is clearly defined you are a casual on-call to be used when and if the company choose to use you no more no less.

Well it is all very political isnt it. When i first applied for the position it said it was as a fixed term 11month contract long haul cabin crew. Then when i had my panel interview, it was said that there were no positions avaiable for long haul but a short list was being made and in the mean time they did pose the question would i be interested in doing MAM casual short haul. of course I said yes.

Since then all of my phone calls, letters and emails have referred to the position as fixed term 11 month contract with no stipulation short or long haul, so whether they are intorducing more long haul or short haul im not in the know but it is so confusing for a newcomer like me.

finally...
 

Well i got an email today inviting me to attend a medical. It then went on to say that after the medical i'd be contacted again within 4 weeks, i'm sure ive heard that once or twice in the last 18 months!? hahaha looks like im in for more waiting, but im not complaining, im just glad to get some contact from them!!!

:) jess

suelle-
what did u wear to your medical? i guess just everyday clothes hey? dont have to sorta 'dress up?'

The medical is done at a doctors surgery, so i wore casual clothes. They do a through check of you, so comfy clothes is best i guess. well it was me anyway.

suelle

Qantas Panel Interviews
 

I hope this note will help any applicants for cabin crew positions.

The interviews in which I excelled (and got the job), were the ones in which I was level headed, friendly and calm. My failed attempts were the ones in which I tried too hard (and probably came across as desperate).

Oh, and ignore anyone who tells you to smile a lot during the interview. Smiling for no apparent reason makes people look silly at best and deranged at worst. You're supposed to create the impression that you will be able to take care of people's safety, comfort, etc.

:ok:

Thanks for the encouraging words Marsha. glad to hear u loved it, and sorry to hear u weren't made permanent!
Best of luck for the future!
Jesski xo

QF - IR Issues and Debate
 

Rumour has it that CC will be moving with the Techies back to the Millenium Gloucester Hotel.

Jettlager

Not a rumour any more... now fact!
Not that too many Aussie based crew will ever see it.

.

Qantas:How did it come to this ?
 

Background
This relates to Longhaul Cabin Crew and can viewed by looking at two distinct periods:Before October 1988 and after October 1988.
Before October 1988.
Rosters were 56 days in length and were allocated.After 3 years of service you were entitled to a "request trip"which you were guaranteed of receiving.Onboard there was a Flight Service Director.A Chief (who ran P/C)He was assisted by a P/C FA and the food was prepared by a dedicated "Air Chef".Air Craft were generally configured 16/16/401(P/J/C). J/C and Y/C were run by Senior flight Attendants.They were responsible for Selling Duty Free and completing bar orders and any Customs Documentation.
Everyone was paid the same ,irrespective of the hours worked.Supervisory crew were paid a higher duties component and the Air Chef received a skills loading
If you were married you could request to be on the so called"married roster"ie. fly with your partner.If you needed to be home fairly regularly(not do long trips)you could apply for short division flying:nothing longer than four days.
Allowances weren`t worth much as the $A was managed not floating.Most of us spent most of our wages before we got home through a cheque encashment facility QF had arranged with slip port hotels.Allowances were not adequate to live on while in slips.Most of us had second jobs where we earnt more than we were paid at QF.Standown time was 75% of the lenght of the trip just completed.ie a 12 day trip had 9 days of standown.
Whatever happened on an aircraft or while you were away stayed there.No bringing it back into the office.
Since the sixties QF had developed a reputation for having friendly efficient service with a touch of Australian larrikinism thrown in.Lots of fun was had on board and the pax benefitted from seeing happy smiling crew faces.
There were two unions:a so called "boys union" and a "girls union".Prior to around `85 there was generally one girl onboard.She worked in P/C and handed out landing documents.
Things began to change around 1985.More females were employed and the Australian dollar was floated.Allowances became worth something.
After 1988.
Through a deal done with the Girls Union a bid system and a new set of work rules were introduced.Suddenly you could fly where you wanted to if you had the seniority,allowances were worth something and you were paid an hourly rate.For this you relinquished 25% of your standown time.Small subgroups began to develop.There were those who only went to the states.The "yen men" began.The downside was that new crew generally flew with new crew.The experience and knowledge was not passed on.Inconsistencies in service began to creep in.Resentment between senior and junior crew started.
Next step was QF merging with TAA(Rebadged Australian Airlines)New problems of differing crew cultures and merging of seniority occurred.It was not a generally happy marriage..Further resentment.
Next was the horseshoe..a crew member was removed in Y/C.Qantas was now privatised..costs and profit were now important.Next was a restructure of crew complements.Chiefs were removed.Next senior Flight Attendants were renamed supervisors and then eventually two were removed.The FSD became the Customer Service Manager.Another crew member was removed and the Air Chef position was abolished.
From an Association point of view you had QF longhaul,Ansett Shorthaul and Australian Shorthaul thrown in together.Not a happy mix.Both shorthauls had the numbers and pushed their own agendas.Ansett flight attendants were making decisions that were affecting QF longhaul crew.
Unfortunately Ansett failed and in steps Virgin to fill the void.Competition breaks out.The cosy domestic duopoly is finished.Low Cost Carriers were in abundance in Europe and the States.The time was ripe for further change.
It was about this time that things began to turn nasty between QF management and its employees(particularly Longhaul Crew).Consultation disappeared.Threats were made.Sars and the Gulf War intruded.The Company asked for some leeway.It was given in the form of a wage freeze and a shortened EBA.A couple of clauses regarding off shore bases were inserted.Promises of consultation were issued by QF management.
No consultation.Employees find out about the LHR bases through tthe media.Betrayal.
In order to further reduce costs the quality and quantity of food is reduced.Qantas begins outsourcing.Aircraft stores are distributed around the world by DANZAS using ocean going transport.Shortages become chronic.The IFE(in flight entertainment System) is introduced..A disaster.Maintenace and engineering have their cost base reduced.Aircraft breakdown more often or leave with toilets not working,ovens not working,coffee makers INOP,lights and sound systems malfunction regularly.Apology Airlines is born.Crew are now apologizing more than ever to now irate passengers.Crew write reports..these are largley ignored.Frustration becomes endemic.Crew can no longer do their job well and must apologize for shortcomings caused by others.Frustration and Anger=disengagement.
This is a brief history of the current circumstances.The chronology may be a little off but the rest is fairly accurate.
I hope this gives a clearer understandoing of why QF CC are so upset.Too much change poorly managed through a lack of communication and consultation.
Crew who want to do their job well and being denied the resources and the avenue to remedy the shortcomings.
This is why I left..I was prevented from doing my job well.Prevented by my employer who insisted I do my job better with less or no resources.As the frustration increased retirement beckoned.
I understand the anger ,the frustration and venom that circulates in these threads.
Qantas is no longer a happy place and no one seems to care but the employees.It is no longer a good airline.There are those who will argue that it is no longer even a good business.

By gee I think you nailed it captainrats.

Another user asked the following question in another forum but as usual the unionists played the man and not the ball so no response was forthcoming. I too would be interested to hear the answer.

Any takers?

Ah...................

The CC and tech crew will BOTH be moving into the Millenium Gloucester.
Sorry.

Jettlager

You could not have hit the nail on the head any closer..

Airport Hotels
 

If you are SYD Based Crew you are a long way from home in LHR.Airports generally have nothing around them.No retail shops(except duty free) no supermarkets,no gyms or bookstores.Nothing to do.Boredom even for 38 hrs.London is not Heathrow Airport.A tragedy in Architecture and design if ever there was one.
The issue is fairly self explanatory.
As jettlager says..it aint happening anyway.

The QF specific history certainly gives some balance and further understanding to the issue but it is only representative of how business operates generally in the modern world. Do you honestly think we would have tolerated queueing in a bank for 20 minutes only to be charged for the pleasure in the early 80's. Hell No.

Things change, things move on, nothing stays the same. What is at the heart of my position is that as much as we want things to stay the same, they never do. You can either move with it or be swamped by it, or leave.... not that many would actually do that.

But stop it? You haven't got a chance.

flugenluft:
And another reason is to do with suitable rest.
Airport hotels generally have lots of aircraft noise.

captainrats:
I think your post should appear as the starter for every QF post so outsiders can have an understanding of the demise and why some of us are so passionately opposed to what's happening.

I think most crew would accept some degree of change and rationalisation to keep our beloved QF profitable and safe.
But this is down right cannibalism for the sake of an executive bonus...... :)

And for the unsure: the use of cannibalism in this context refers to the eating of the flesh of the bones while it is still moving... :eek:


.

I decree a black ban on Jet_Black_Moron.
Do not answer the posts.
Clearly the intent is to inflame and the best remedy is silence.

What exactly is the issue with my post?

Your issue is that I diagree with you, wholeheartedly!

JBM Change
 

No one denies that change needs to occur.It is how it is managed and communicated.In Qantas it is poorly on both counts.Hence the anger and frustration.Throw in the hypocrisy regarding management wage increases while asking the troops to tighten their belts.Illustrates a total lack of both principles and morality and absolutely nothing to do with change.