BA cabin crew to strike
 

British Airways crew vote for Heathrow strike - BBC News

Thoughts please

If they do actually take action I don't believe it will be effective. Of 4,000 mixed fleet crew only 50% are members of unite. Mixed fleet is only 15% of the total cabin crew work force.

Therefore it would not have the same devastating effect that the last strike involving BASSA members had.

I think stories of crew sleeping in their cars because they can't afford the fuel to drive home are a tad exaggerated.

From some of the comments I read recently, I'm not so sure pax will notice the difference! :E

BA strike
 

Note to self

Avoid BA - I will book with a reliable airline - their loss, my money

Before people slip into the default mode of Blackadders Sir Talbot Buxomly people should think a little bit about the very low wages mixed fleet and therefore very junior staff get paid. They are young and come from a generation who have seen their actual and real wages decline over the last decade and I for one can believe that soem have had to sleep in their cars .

Do we really want BA to be cabin crewed entirely by Slovakians just for the sake of a few quid on the ticket . twenty years ago working for BA in any front line role in Flight and cabin crew, Line Maintenance, Check in /passenger services were decent career jobs, all thats gone now so they can pay the senior management a fortune. It is the way of the world but try not to be so nasty to them

Pax Britanica
Having had dealings with BA current crop of air crew this year, I would welcome Slovakians with open arms if I was WW. I agree with the comments you make about wages, but there is a fundamental attitude issue with some BA staff and I do not think it is a financial issue, but a customer service one or lack there of. I have not used them for many years, but did make a journey down and back to BA, and unfortunately they did not seem to have improved on either leg of the journey so will not be spending my, or my companies money with them again unless unavoidable.

You are absolutely right Pax. In my day it was a well paid job with great benefits, decent time off and a good career structure. You felt proud to do the job, you had decent rest and, usually went to work with a feeling of pride and left with a feeling of satisfaction. We really could call ourselves 'the worlds favourite'.

These days I don't know how these young guys and girls do it, appalling salary, minimum rest, extra long duty days and the threat of dismissal hanging no over their heads for the slightest infraction.

BA has made a rod for its own back, it has split CC into the 'them' and 'us'. These MF folk do the same job as others yet you would not believe the difference in their terms and conditions. Yes, CC themselves can take part of the blame, the rot set in in 1989 when BA financed and supported a rival union and split crew down the middle.

It seems to me the attitude now is, 'well if we burn them out, there are always plenty of others to do their job'. That, sadly is probably true, but let's remember what they are there for. Not to sell M&S meals as the next plan is, turning BA into some sort of 'Orange Long Haul'. I for one wish them well in their action, all they want is a decent pay rise to do a responsible and difficult job. At the end of the day, the airline is that one that will ultimately suffer by treating its staff in such a way. It's no wonder people say they attitude onboard is not what it should be, I am not surprised. You need to treat your employees with respect if you want the same back from them.

And finally, sadly some of those stories of some crew sleeping in cars and borrowing money from relatives to buy new uniform shoes are true.

Mr M
I understand your point and indeed have experienced plenty of indifferent service on BA on all routes from LGW to Bordeaux down the back to F London to Jo burg. But I did think the mixed fleet people had either not grown up under the occasionally poisonous attitudes of very long term staff. I just think it is a shame in this country where we always blame the staff who strike or their unions but never hold the management to account for failing to manage a peaceful and productive environment.
These people are badly paid, are seen as an enemy by upper management who spend their day trying to reduce their roles and wages and are regularly told they are worthless and that they could and should be replaced. So, how are some of them going to think when they come to work

If Walsh reduced his wage to a paltry £1,000,000 per year, you could give all the 3,500 staff a bonus of £3,500 to help them through the winter.

They don't need to "actually take action," and I hope they never need to. Before any dates are even announced, it's all over the news that BA cabin crew can strike any time after the 21st Dec. Customers will already be factoring that into their travel arrangements.

This issue is already costing BA money.

IAG is a company that will make +£2billion this year, and will pay it's management team eye-watering sums of money! There's money for pretty much anything in BA! EXCEPT paying the (generally young and keen) staff that interact most with customers, a decent wage!

Why?

Just because they can!! If 'they' don't like it, there's thousands more who'd do this job for half of nothing!

Get 'em in. Burn 'em out. Then sling 'em out!

Bonuses all round, and another yacht for the fat cats!

Wonder which other BA work groups will be volounteering to work in the cabin this time round??

Tonker...
 

Really? He earns that much???

£3,500 * 3,500 =£12,250,000...

Yep it should have read 2,000 staff.

Expurser I echo every word you say. I was one of the lucky ones to work for BOAC and then BA. You had a brilliant lifestle and were proud to work for a decent company that actullay cared for its employees. It was a career to be proud of. OK so we didn't have long range aircraft to take us 7000 miles non stop but when the 744 came out there were long range payments which made up for for loosing Middle East layovers.

Back in those days paassengers and crews used to respect each other. These days we have the low cost carriers to thank for the demise of service levels and standards. Yes the world is changing and us oldies need to keep up with the pace of life, but at what cost?

I will never understand why BA have to have different contracts for cabin crew. It's just inviting trouble.

BA will reap what they sow in paying very low cabin crew wages.
The present cabin service on my recent flights has been variable to say the least.
Recently Qantas Business Classs connecting to Lhr BA A380, fortunate to be bumped into First Class.
The QF flight was on a full aircraft with 12 Business seats. An immaculately turned out CSM (27 years service QF) dealt with the front cabin on his own, no other person in the galley. Great food and service efficiently and professionally carried out. Small things stood out, the wine service , full knowledge of the product, and presented and served from the bottle at the seat.

The BA service did not compare. The A380 cabin service procedure doesn't help by serving from the front rearwards by one crew member, meaning a long wait if you sit in the rear seats (40 mins to get the first drink)
The crew member in our isle less than immaculately turned out, re QF, hairbrush?, and either the uniform too small or she two sizes too large.
The wine service."Do you want some wine with your meal luv?" No knowledge of the product just referred to the menu. Served from the galley in the glass, could have been anything.
Small points but not what you'd expect if you'd paid a large amount of money for the FC seat.
I realise the BA procedures contributed to the poor service on this occasion, but as far as the crew members performance, BA obviously get what they pay for.
I would choose another carrier next time.

Can I just ask how many duty hours cabin crew can expect to pull in a year? Because if they did, e.g., a 160 hour month, then 3 quid an hour makes almost six thousand pounds p.a., meaning a salary of around 18,000 a year. And am I right in assuming that "Flying Hours" starts from the time you pitch up at the airport?.

Because if so, this is not bad at all.

Is this just the old BASSA grumps trying to use the masses to fight their own battles again?

Either way, Walsh knows how to handle them. Let them go on strike, I'm sure a lot of cabin crew remember getting led down the garden path last time, and I would question Unite's appetite to subsidise BASSA's churlishness one more time, as well as much of the cabin crew's appetite to do it just before Christmas.

Only one winner here.

I can get decent service from restaurant waiters who are only paid £7/hr to £10/hr - it's essentially the same job, so why should cabin staff be paid more than that?

I’m not getting into the rights and wrongs of this particular dispute here, but this sort of attitude is simply ill informed.

Why is it that being a profitable company is seen as somehow unworthy? And that the only beneficiaries are “fat cats” whose sole motivation is “another yacht”?

IAG, the parent company of BA, is owned by its shareholders. The vast majority of those shareholders are financial institutions and fund managers who invest their own customers money in IAG the expectation of a decent return on that investment. So ultimately the “fat cats” are ordinary people, and the “yachts” are their savings and pensions.

IAG exist to make money for their shareholders. That is their purpose. How they go about that, including the balance between maintaining an effective workforce and keeping costs under control, is something that could be debated all day long.

Do your cabin staff only serve food?

No, they do drinks as well, and see me too/from my seat, like all waiting staff.

With an attitude like that PDR 1, I don't think the crew will in any sort of a hurry to save your sorry a$$ should you take a turn for the worse at 38000 ft. Regardless of the rights and wrongs, all crew deserve more respect than that.

On the subject, some other carriers may view this as karma seeing as they've had the "we're considerably better than you" and "we earn twice as much as you" spouted year on year, over the past 30 years. Clearly not the case any longer.

You need to re:read it Islandlad. I was pointing out the fact all CC serve more of a purpose than just serving T&C and escorting people to their seats. The crew with my outfit are very well trained and a few months ago I witnessed them in full CPR mode desperately trying to save the life of a customer. I was just highlighting to the uninitiated / plain ignorant* (* amend to suit) that the cabin crew are more valuable on board our aircraft that some think. I know that if I'm taken I'll, that there are 10 or so highly trained crew to hopefully sort me out.

Threat? - don't be silly. Just highlighting the ignorance of others'.

As one ex training Captain once told me early doors in my career, " Your steak can kiss the rim of a toilet before being presented with the sweetest of smiles". That advice has served me well.

Who is being disrepectful? I am friendly and polite to all waiters and waitresses. As Islandlad says, it's just not realistic to expect megabuck employment packages for jobs that add only centibuck value to (a) the employer and (b) the customer.

And given that my experience of BA cabin crew has found them arrogant, unhhelpful and rude (second only to AA in deservingness of a sound instructional thrashing) I remain to be convinced that they deserve salaries higher than (say) the waiting staff in the Hard Rock Cafe off Times Square (whose eagerness, helpfulness and enthusiasm add significant value to the evening). Virgin, Singapore and Delta CC were much better, so BA staff need to wind their necks in a bit IMHO.

PDR - I have no issue with you point regards to attitudes. You get that everywhere. My point is that the CC are very well trained and serve more of a purpose than serving T&C

Islandlad. No not food poisoning. It was a cardiac arrest with the crew performing CPR and using a de fib.

"3 or 4 CC on a 737 800". Couldn't answer that, we don't have tiddlers in my outfit.

The point my ex training Capt was making was that irrespective of whether being in the sharp end or not and regardless of our role, everyone deserves to be treated with respect.

No-ones being nasty, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that most, if not all crew, are highly trained beyond that of the obvious customer service. When you see 6 crew hands on trying to save someone's life with equipment strewn everywhere, you might appreciate what I'm saying. Obviously, not everyone gets to see or experience that and let's hope not. That said, it happens fairly regularly in LH.

PDR's experiences and comments on the attitude of crew he has met has resulted in him having a blinkered opinion of the real value of the cabin crew. I'm not taking about pay and salaries, I'm talking about the training and ability to look after someone in need or save a life especially when time is crucial

We're trying to rid the industry of this attitude as it's clearly not helpful or appreciated. Let's not cloud opinions based on whether someone smiles or not when offering a drink. Still doesn't make them less capable of saving a life.

I trust this concludes the discussion

I'm not. I took issue with PDR's personal opinion of cabin crew and responded accordingly. My argument isn't centred around pay or conditions. My argument is that PDR 1 totally underestimates the worth of a cabin crew member within their onboard role. To which, I have answered.

If you want me to express an opinion on BA MF terms and conditions, just say so. That said, that's about of much interest to me as your salary t&c's if you get my drift.

We're done I think

Well trained? IIRC the course has no academic entry requirements and lasts less than three months. Not exactly gruelling!

Yes, they do more than wait tables, but so do plenty of others. Swimming pool attendants do as much first aid training, as do many supermarket shelf-stackers and waiting staff in the larger chains. As far as I can see the only real justification for paying more than basic wages would be the anti-social work patterns, but again many shift workers have similarly anti-social patterns.

I think your figures are a tad exaggerated. I don't know of any cabin crew that earn up to £75K, however there were generous increments at the time which obviously help towards anyone's salary.

Well... everybody has been reporting everybody else this morning, so I've deleted a few posts that added little except heat to the conversation. Back on topic please folks.

My company offers First Aid training to all employees, and we have Defib machines dotted all over the place.

There is nothing magical about being trained in how to do CPR and use a Defribillator. More employers should offer it.

Fair point to a degree Chico however not in a metal tube, miles high in the sky with the nearest hospital potentially being hours away even if that airport can Handle that Aircraft type. Valid point about more employers jumping on board which I think is improving.

Tightslot - Ever the voice of reason. No worries

I just think it is very sad that people here seem to glory in the idea of airline staff being employed on rubbish contracts with crap pay.
These people generally do a decent days work-they don't lie for a living like journos, they dont steal your pension money like banks and financial advisors and insurance companies, they don't run the NHS into the ground for the sake of their bonus like NHS managers, they don't chase ambulances or rip people off with fees like lawyers. They don't impact your lives much at all.

Its a free country-just about and if they want to strike to draw attention to their situation they are entitled to. If we keep on depressing the wages and conditions of people in jobs where they are one of several thousand like these folks, Amazon workers, council contractors you are creating a society out of Dickens where the majority cannot afford even the sinmplest luxury and that in itself is enough to destroy overall prosperity

I started my career operating the Vickers Viscount in two roles, flight deck and cabin crew. I still think this taught me one heck of a lot about life in the industry. And as a bonus it was great fun, always being the 'baby' of the crew. Perhaps this should be made compulsory??

CC earning £21- £25k and striking in the very same industry that pilots pay to fly. Madness.

They're not earning £21-25k!

If they're earning 12k my point still stands - it's madness

I read earlier that cabin crew will strike for 24 hours on 25th December. Not sure how accurate but probably reasonable assumption.

How much do you think they are earning T250? Also, what do you think would be a fair salary for the job?

Sky News are saying Xmas Day, and Boxing Day for the first strikes. BA "determined the strike will fail"!

Hope Unite have explained to these young folks how these things play out!

For example, they WILL be threatened with the sack. Though to be honest, I suspect this particular section of the workforce will be far less concerned with that prospect, than most BA have previously dealt with.

I still support them though!!!

LCC are the cause. Directors of companies like BA and Cathay have allowed themselves to be ruled by accountants and, as someone just said, you get what you pay for.

It's such a shame for these youngsters who are being used as cannon fodder by Len McClunky & his bunch of Unite thugs.

The last time that they tried to take on WW they lost as they will again. :ugh:

It's just a shame that 1,000s of pax will be caused unnecessary worry & stress & the CC members will have their careers ruined by union militancy.