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In fairness to wiggy JPMs do not say that crew must live within an hor and a half from their base. What they do say is this:
1.16.2.3 - "The essentials are identified by the words 'should' or 'must', desirable features are identified by the words 'should' or 'may'." 1.16.24.3.2 - "If the journey time from home to normal departure airfield is usually in excess of 1 1/2 hours, crew members should make arrangements for temporary accommodation nearer to base." So there is a desirable not essential onus on the individual to ensure that their normal travelling time is less than 1.5 hours or to make arrangements for temporary accommodation closer to their base. There is no absolute requirement to do this within BA scheme rather a statement that it is desirable that you do this. JPMs further state: 1.16.2.2.1 - "Responsibility for the proper control of flight and duty time does not rest on the Company alone. The formal responsibilities of crew members under the Fatigue of Crew provisions of the Air Navigation Order are described in Requirements of the ANO 2005 furthermore, individuals must not operate if they know that they are, or are likely to be, in breach of this Scheme." So basically if you have a long commute, irrelevant of whether it is by air or car you may well be putting yourself in a very dangerous position should there be an incident and subsequent court case. You have responsibilities under the ANO and Scheme which you may well be ignoring with a long commute prior to operating unless you make temporary arrangements to have ensure rest prior to operating, and by rest I mean a nights sleep, not an hour with your head down in the carpark or quiet room. |
HiFlyer14
Crew have been told that they could use ST to get to work. When regional bases were closed down, staff were told they could use it instead of relocating to London. When language speakers were recruited from all over Europe, they were told that they could use ST. We could debate this as much as you like. You will still be insisting that they have not. I will be insisting otherwise. I am not criticizing PCCC. As we are in a dispute with the company, surely it would be in your best interest to step forward now and not later. I don't think it will help once the dispute is over and everything has gone back to normal. As you are backing BA, you would probably get the support needed from them. And, no. I don't always feel proud of BASSA but they are also responsible for my terms and conditions, some of the best in the industry, which YOU are also enjoying at the moment. BASSA are not all bad. Why did you choose BA? You could have gone to BMI or Ryanair surely? Of course I blame everyone who went to work. Every crew who crossed the picket line. Every pilot who trained to become crew. Every VCC who trained to do our job. Every ex-temporary crew who have come back to cover the strike. If they hadn't, this strike would have been over in a couple of days. Instead, we see that WW are desperately trying to break the strike by using any means possible. Getting VCC from the US because he's not getting enough support in the UK for instance. WW does not want to negotiate. It has never been part of his agenda. Our last proposals were £10 million apart, yet he refused it. He has spent hundreds of millions on a strike which could have been easily avoided if he had wanted to. Don't blame us for being responsible for not getting a share scheme, an extra ticket and bonus. Blame WW. He doesn't want a negotiated settlement. Can't you see it? He was recruited to BA with a purpose. What was this purpose? WW is responisble for this mess. Don't blame us for trying to protect our jobs and what we have. He won't be here forever whilst the rest of us are intending to stay here and create a career until we retire. WW has created such a misery in this company and we would be better off without him. IB doesn't want him either and the cabin crew, with an 80% support, will go on strike if WW takes over. He's not welcome in BA. He's not welcome in IB. Surely that says something. |
He's not welcome in BA |
The 1.5 hrs quoted in your JPMS is a direct migration of CAP371 which is the law. It is to ensure that you are not fatigued through travel at the start of duty.Alleviations are possible to facilitate dual bases.
To ignore this means you are exposing yourself and the company to liability in the event of an incident. More than 1.5 hrs means not rested and therefore to work you are breaking the law. Yet another worm creeping out of the can thanks to Bassa. Its not just applicible to air commuters but everyone who travels further than 1.5 hrs to get to work but even worse if you are not correctly acclimatised when commuting from another timezone grater than 2hrs wide where you have been for more than 3 local nights There are many ways the company can get you if they choose to cover their legalities. |
MissM has informed us that:
I am not criticizing PCCC. As we are in a dispute with the company, surely it would be in your best interest to step forward now and not later. When MissM becomes a subscription-paying member of PCCC she will be entitled to offer it advice. Until that happens . . . Of course I blame everyone who went to work. Every crew who crossed the picket line. Every pilot who trained to become crew. Every VCC who trained to do our job. Every ex-temporary crew who have come back to cover the strike. If they hadn't, this strike would have been over in a couple of days. IB doesn't want him either and the cabin crew, with an 80% support, will go on strike if WW takes over. He's not welcome in BA. He's not welcome in IB. Surely that says something. WW is responisble for this mess. When MissM declares that WW is responisble for this mess Willie Walsh will not contribute to PPRuNe; he is too busy running British Airways. But that is absolutely no reason whatsoever for MissM to malign the man in that scurrilous manner. |
It is important to be aware that within JPMs "should" does not mean "must". There are many references that have this wording, they are carefully worded like that to give some latitude and room for interpretation.
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MissM
Of course I blame everyone who went to work. Every crew who crossed the picket line. Every pilot who trained to become crew. Every VCC who trained to do our job. Every ex-temporary crew who have come back to cover the strike. If they hadn't, this strike would have been over in a couple of days Our CEO is standing up to you MissM, with our backing, the board, the city and the public in general. |
Of course I blame everyone who went to work. Every crew who crossed the picket line. Every pilot who trained to become crew. Every VCC who trained to do our job. Every ex-temporary crew who have come back to cover the strike... ...Getting VCC from the US because he's not getting enough support in the UK for instance So, basically, everybody is to blame - except BASSA of course. |
Crew have been told that they could use ST to get to work On another more interesting point. Rather than go around the houses to discuss the red herring of ST perhaps Unite should lokk how it got into this untenable situation. A situation that I am fairly sure will lose its shine and its priority after tomorrows emergency budget as Unite will have its hands (and resources) full dealing with the potential huge public sector JOB LOSSES (not, we are going to remove one from the office) to come. Is the current balloting method really acceptable in this day and age? The fact that non returned votes are counted as yes votes is symptomatic of the Union and New Labours 'opt out' system where you say yes unless you say no. Surely in such a contencious and expensive issue as this dispute there should be a clear majority of members voting yes, not a majority of returned votes voting yes. If a non returned ballot was cast as a 'no' vote instead of a yes vote then an absoloute majority, with no quibbling, i.e. more than 50% of the total membership would be required to take IA. in excess of 50% of the returned votes would not be enough unless the total number of yes votes returned exceeded 50% of the membership. This woudl avoid the 5000 ballots returned from 12000 sent out with 4000 voting yes giving a landslide victory from 1/3 of the membership. Bound to be cheaper in the long run for the Union and gets an accurate representation of the members views rather than headline grabbing figures of 81% of those that could be bothered to return the paper. |
Originally Posted by MissM
Our last proposals were £10 million apart, yet he refused it.
Some the Bassa costings were, imaginative at best - I understand the figure was nearer £17M difference, this has been accepted by Bassa in their reply to BA's way forward document. Also don't forget that a huge part of Bassa's proposed 'savings' are a loan that BA is required to pay back in full.
Originally Posted by MissM
Don't blame us for being responsible for not getting a share scheme, an extra ticket and bonus. Blame WW. He doesn't want a negotiated settlement. Can't you see it? He was recruited to BA with a purpose. What was this purpose?
Approx 40,000 other staff managed to negotiate with their unions still intact. Of course I blame everyone who went to work. Every crew who crossed the picket line. Every pilot who trained to become crew. Every VCC who trained to do our job. Every ex-temporary crew who have come back to cover the strike. If they hadn't, this strike would have been over in a couple of days. |
Where to start?.....
Ok, from the top.
Yes they may have been told they can use ST to get to work, but they were explicitly NOT told it was a contractual right. Because it isn't. Just as I have been told I will be provided with somewhere to park my car at Heathrow, but it is not in my contract, and may be removed at any time. Yes BASSA are responsible for not only your current terms and conditions, but also the pickle in which you find yourself. They have spent all their industrial muscle defending your prehistoric work practices, and failed to adapt them to modern conditions. Adapt or die seems the most apposite phrase. Blaming everyone but yourselves, and regurgitating false and repudiated BASSA "facts" is not a convincing argument anywhere except planet BASSA. Your argument can be summarised as "This dispute would be over if you had let us have our way". An infantile and utterly ridiculous position for a supposedly 'professional' union to take. Finally, when all other lines of 'argument' have failed, play the man, not the ball. This dispute is not about WW. He is regarded by most employees as the right man for the job. The evidence for this is that every other department has reached agreement on cost reduction, and the Backing BA campaign has been overwhelmingly supported from all other sections of the company. Including many members of your own beloved Unite. WW has begun to turn this company into an airline with a future, not just a past. Surely THAT says something. |
When will people realise that Willie Waslh did not wake up one morning and decide on a whim to reorganise the cabin crew and their agreements.
That decision was taken by the City, the Board and the Shareholders long ago. Mr Walsh is the figurehead of the Company and the one who is paid to take all the abuse thrown at BA by BASSA and Unite. It strikes me that those within the Company who think this is personal should get over themselves..........not many of us ( including myself ) are that important. |
Juan Toguh
Most of the other employees have a union which not WW is after. Their union is not being busted by management. 80% of the cabin crew at IB have also made their point. They don't want him either. I can only salute them. I will happily buy a full fare ticket to MAD and join them on the picket lines (if allowed). Chuchinchow Ignored. ranger07 BASSA agree to changes. Initially they didn't. They thought BA would leave them alone if they didn't speak. But, look at their last proposals and you will see that they are agreeing to it. Dogs ears up If they had minded their own business in the first place, none of us would have been here today. The strike wouldn't have lasted very long. Instead, they insisted on crossing the picket lines and supporting WW in his union busting. Of course I am disappointed with them. Meal Chucker WW is to be held responsible for this mess. He never wanted to negotiate. He pushed us into the corner which we are at. No, those of us who went on strike are not responsible for this dispute. A strike is always a last resort. Nobody wants to strike. If nobody had crossed the picket line or done our job, WW and his contigency plan never would have worked and he had been forced back to the negotiating table. |
Wirbelsturm
Nothing in writing but of course BA would never write anything on a piece of paper which could be held against them. They prefer gentlement agreements which they can break whenever it suits them. They never seem to honour any exisiting agreements. Look at the operations over the past few months. We seem to be operating without any agreements in place. |
Miss M,
Instead of apportioning blame, isn't it time that the leaders of Unite and BASSA ask themselves why so many crew have broken the strike? Why so many people have volunteered? I'll give you a hint. For many, it has nothing to do with staff travel! If they can fully understand that then maybe there will be a glimmer of hope of seeing this dispute finally resolved. In the meantime, back at LGW, a fully paid up member of BASSA recently went to them with an issue. They were told that as the majority of crew at the base had not supported the strike, BASSA weren't interested. Fair enough. But if that is the case, then they need to advise all of their members at LGW that they no longer feel able to represent them and stop taking their money! |
Originally Posted by MissM
When regional bases were closed down, staff were told they could use it instead of relocating to London.
Miss M, you really must try to get your information fom sources other than the BASSA and Crew Forums, which simply repeat the same tired old lies. The inner clique there continues to convince itself that: If only Willie would leave the problem would be solved (Keith Williams fully supports this process, and he's the next CEO); That the only 9 out of every 20 VCCs is finishing their course because crewing is too hard (completely fabricated,they aren't); That Willie is desperate for volunteers (he isn't); That they're recruiting VCCs from the US because nobodys applying in the UK (they are overwhelmed with applicants from the UK, so much so that the other departments are running out of staff they can spare. The US VCCs don't need US visas either, so rapidly add to the numbers of US -capable VCCs); And finally - this one is my favourite - that there are rumours that a massive 'yes' vote will force Willie out! Thats right, the massive 'yes' vote that didn't work first time, and has clearly failed a second time, will work third time around. Do they not learn? Will you swallow that fib for a third time? Let me leave you with a quote from Einstein: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results |
MissM
You continue to confuse your own version of events with reality.
Facts. The majority of your cc number did not support you in the most recent IA. The vast majority of staff back WW and BA, including many VCC who are Unite members. (The introduction of USA VCC's are the result of US staff request, and a need to spread the load amongst departments, not lack of volunteers.) NO other group of BA staff support CC in the IA. Any future IA will have BA fly the entire Long Haul route network, flying all booked pax. Short Haul will probably not be ramped up much further as BA will only fly the moneymaking routes and continue wet leasing, as they are cheaper to fly than our own a/c with the restrictive rostering practises of Eurofleet. Public opinion is against you now, but just wait until you announce strikes in the Summer holiday period. The City support BA, look at the Share price during IA. BA now run the day to day operation, not BASSA (No 48 hr diversions. No one down in F/C so close it and downgrade the pax. No BASSA consultation ex LHR if departure delayed, etc etc. etc.) The BFC brigade said loss of ST no problem as not used much, and WW could stick it up his -etc etc (Sky News footage) So why the outcry about its reinstatement? I could go on but it's getting boring!! |
Chuchinchow Ignored. |
Crew crossed the picket line for different reasons. I could think of the most obvious ones:
1. Not being part of a union. 2. Not being able to afford to strike. 3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed... 4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion... 5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC. 6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job. I could think of a combination that some went to work convinced that there would be enough crew going on strike so they didn't need to do it and at the same time keep their ST. As for LGW, they should have received representation if they needed assistance regarding a personal matter, especially if they are a paying member. |
MY final word on staff travel and recruitment
Miss M I am not going to conduct a tennis match of a debate with you over the argument of using staff travel as tool to get to work.I have been montitoring your comments and appreciate that you have not been judgemetal in this context.
I will simply state yet again ..That as part of the recrutiment and selection team within cabin services we emphasised the need to reside within 90 mins travelling distance of their airport base...secondly on overseas campaighns we again stressed that it was a responsibility of the individual to relocate to the uk mainland in order to live within a reasonable travelling distance ie 90 mins from their allocated airport base.This ideal was encouraged...of course we acknowledged the candidates choice if sucessful to live in the uk or anywhere else in the world...was essientially their own personal choice. Please remember that it takes 6 months of continuous employment and not being on the probationary peroid of emplyment to earn the staff travel perk...so to suggest that it is used as a means to get to work at the outset would be ludicrous....not forgetting travel embargoes...air traffic control fairlures...industrial action from any airline. oraviation associated company.....weather disruption...terrorist and security alerts etc would make any crew member who relied on BA staff travel totally as a means to get to work totally vunerable....to the unpredictable happening.IE who would believe that a Volcano in Iceland could bring airtravel to a complete halt for a week! I get the tube into work....thats not my only source as sometimes part of the line is out of functionality due to engineering works...signal failure etc.I need to be dextrous with my forward travel planning. As previously mentioned by myself and others ...it is an individual choice if one decides to commute from London...New York or the moon! The individidual is obligated to make their own necessary arrangements in order to get to work on time, fit....fully rested and ready to work. Yes indeed it is an advantage of cabin crew as well as pilots to be able to commute from far away lands.They also realse that its their responsibility ,and not the airlines, to get themselves to their workbase. You state that peoples opinions differ on this issue...I am merely stating fact. from my own perspective, not an opinion on the issue of BA stating that part of the recruitment package was to woo candiodates to BA particulary from overseas with the promise of staff travel to assist them in getting to work. Any overseas candidate whom I assessed at group or interview stage..or who I may have been aquainted with during the group presentation...would be able to state that they were in fact encouraged to relocate...and were certainly made aware of the 90 min travel distance window.It was in our best interests to stress this as we would not wish to waste resources recruiting candidates who felt that getting to work for them would be a physical impossibility without acess to BA staff travel.Again they would not have been entitled to staff travel at the outset. I cannot speak for all cabin crew selectors...and all overseas based crew etc...but this has been my actual experience and many of my fellow selectors who i have been in discussions with on this very issue. This is ,my last word on this subject. Enjoy the footie!! |
Nothing in writing but of course BA would never write anything on a piece of paper which could be held against them. They prefer gentlement agreements which they can break whenever it suits them. They never seem to honour any exisiting agreements. Look at the operations over the past few months. We seem to be operating without any agreements in place. The last time I looked it was neither BA's concern nor indeed any of their business where you live as a consenting adult. They require that, under normal rostered circumstances, that you be within the vicinity of your work place 2 hours prior to report time. The company you seem to be denigrating doesn't exist. In the real world agreements are made, broken, discarded and remade as circumstance allows. I have worked in many places before coming to BA and, trust me, BA is a good employer to work for. But like all employers you must pull your weight both with respect to your individual job and your department. BA do not owe anyone a living. BA do not have to give anyone staff travel, BA does not have to give free parking, free uniforms, discounted meals etc. etc. etc. What we have now is a generation within BA who have become so used to having everything given to them on a plate and cosseted to the Nth degree that the loss of anything becomes a personal attack. Many within BA don't realise how nasty the real world can be. Perhaps soon the BASSA militants who blame everything and everybody for their situation except themselves will find out. Time will tell. 1. Not being part of a union. 2. Not being able to afford to strike. 3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed... 4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion... 5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC. 6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job. 7. Don't believe in the self centred, militant rantings of a Union from a bygone era protecting their own backsides and demanding that everyone else pays for their 1980's style cushy expenses whilst stubbornly denying that anything is foing on nasty outside of Plabet BASSA. |
Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed... Is it too hard for you to fathom that if only 56% of cabin crew voted for strike action that many of the remaining 44% simply don't agree with you? Not scared, not greedy, not ambitious, not skint, they just don't agree with you. |
MissM
Crew crossed the picket line for different reasons. I could think of the most obvious ones: 1. Not being part of a union. 2. Not being able to afford to strike. 3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed... 4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion... 5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC. 6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job. I could think of a combination that some went to work convinced that there would be enough crew going on strike so they didn't need to do it and at the same time keep their ST. As for LGW, they should have received representation if they needed assistance regarding a personal matter, especially if they are a paying member. 8. Wish to Back BA and respect the customers who pay their wages. 9. Believe that BASSA have not acted in their interests by at least stating the company offer (s). 10. Sick and tired of the moaning whinging minorities who make their working life a misery. |
All quotes posted by Miss M Crew crossed the picket line for different reasons. I could think of the most obvious ones: 1. Not being part of a union. 2. Not being able to afford to strike. 3. Not wanting to lose a SIN or HKG. Interesting that many LR flights departed... 4. Not wanting to get the word STRIKE on their file. Craving for a promotion... 5. Not wanting to lose ST. Interesting that we had many commuters at BFC. 6. Not wanting to strike for the very reason that others can do the "dirty" job. Many of us also believe the strike is unjustified and morally wrong, Miss M. |
BASSA negotiators?
Psalms 135:16
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Miss M,
Final question please as you've refused to answer this previously. There are no lifelines left... You can't ask the audience because you know what they think......the public hate us. You can't phone a friend as many of them came to work and you know what they think. There isn't an option for 50:50. Please tell me honestly, what has going on strike achieved for you and what will future strikes achieve? |
It would seem that I am not the only one wondering over the lunacy of minority/majority 'automatic yes' votes!
Make it harder to strike, say bosses | Mail Online How surprising that they use pictures of a useless, ill informed, non event strike as the picture. Take IA over the management have the audacity, the sheer audacity to decide how many crew are required on an aircraft. I mean, come on, how could they even dream up such radical changes without the safe, steering guidance of Auntie BASSA? BASSA, who were so certain that crewing levels were contractual, until the Judiciary told them otherwise. BASSA who were so certain that action by them would 'ground the airline', only it didn't. BASSA who were so certain that they would get ST back 'in days' only they didn't. BASSA who have run out of ideas in a strike they should never have called but they don't know how to do anything else. But Auntie BASSA tells us that we will all be smiling and she'll buy the ice cream when that nasty man Willie Walsh goes and the nice man Kieth Williams takes over because he's a nice money man....... who knows exactly what savings are required...... and what the cost savings will be ........ when the CC are rationalised into modern practices........... and who fully endorses the current non compromising action ........ oh .......? Unite are going to be fighting wars on all fronts from tomorrow as the public sector, who have been largely cushioned from the recession as the private sector took the hits, gets the result of 13 years of extravagent Labour over spending. Will they care about CC whose jobs aren't threatened? Who have a jolly nice Pimm's up on the picket line? Who are pictured drinking beer next to their M3 convertibles? Oooops. If you haven't got anything by tomorrows emergency budget then I suggest you leave BASSA and save the money. You are going to need it! |
Miss M
I know you blame the ones that saw sense and went to work to do nothing more than the job they are paid to do. I myself blame the bassa leadership for not doing the job that they are paid to do. Rather than looking for the real views of the members at the meeting at sandown last year they manipulated the ones that were present into a unanimous vote for no negotiation with BA. No view was sought from the three quarters or more of the membership that were not present or any opportunity given to voice any opinion other than the pre determined one. What do you think would have happened to any member that put their hand up and said they would like to see more negotiation? The next ballot, if there is one, will give a clearer indication of where the feeling truly is. Will you join me in encouraging people to make their own minds up on the issues? |
Originally Posted by MissM
(Post 5765973)
Wirbelsturm
Nothing in writing but of course BA would never write anything on a piece of paper which could be held against them. They prefer gentlement agreements which they can break whenever it suits them. They never seem to honour any exisiting agreements. Look at the operations over the past few months. We seem to be operating without any agreements in place. Wow, what a disaster that must have been for those involved. Well no, it wasn't. For all involved the atmosphere was positive, can-do, and highly satisfying knowing that the best that Bassa could offer was being thwarted by a great team, working together to get passengers to destinations without the malevolent influence of the Bassamentalists. That's how we will work in the future. With you (if you adapt to the new order) or without you. |
90 minutes from base
People are made aware of the need to be able to get to their base within 90 minutes even before they join BA. Here is an advert for CC: it's a couple of years old, but I can't imagine that it would be different today.
Ref UKLGW95 Region UK - Gatwick Location London - Gatwick Category Customer Contact Job Description Closing: 10th March 2008 Air Cabin Crew - Gatwick Fleet LGW Interacting with a wide variety of people from a broad range of cultures forms a major part of the Cabin Crew role. Cabin Crew must be able to relate to others and show a passion for delivering excellent customer service. There is a need to balance confidence and professionalism with a friendly approachable manner. Anticipating and exceeding customer expectations is essential. Requirements * The right to live and work within the UK with no restrictions. * Holder of a valid European Union passport allowing unrestricted world-wide travel or a passport issued by one of the following accession states: - Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Cyprus, Malta. * Aged between 18 and 62 at time of application. * Experience of front line face to face customer contact in a busy and challenging environment. * Demonstrate respect, attention and professionalism to customers. * Fluent in English, both written and spoken. * Educated to GCSE or equivalent standard in Maths and English. * Willing and able to apply for a criminal record check. * Able to provide the names and addresses of references covering 5 years continuous work and academic history. * A high standard of physical fitness. * To be a minimum of 5ft 2in (1.585m) and 6ft 2in (1.88m) in height, with weight in proportion, such that the ability to perform all job functions is not hindered. * The ability to, whilst facing forward, walk and fit comfortably down the aisle, fit quickly through the overwing window exit, and to fit into a jump seat harness without modification including closure without a seatbelt extension. * Able to successfully pass a comprehensive medical questionnaire. * Live within 90 minutes of the airport from which you are based. You as a person Representing British Airways as a member of our Cabin Crew is a unique experience. Our customers have their own unique needs and requirements. You?ll find every day holds a different challenge - from the moment you welcome our customers aboard the aircraft, their safety and comfort are your responsibility. Your role includes all aspects of customer care from communication to serving refreshments. You will hold the key to our customers having a fantastic flight and, most importantly, wanting to fly with us again. * Friendly and caring personality. * Competent in handling difficult situations. * Confident communicator and great listener. * Supportive of colleagues and a team player. * Able to remain calm and efficient under pressure. * Willing to treat everyone as an individual. * Satisfy current BA/CAA health requirements. * Takes pride in personal grooming with no visible tattoos or piercings and willing to conform to uniform standards. * Able to swim well with confidence. * Be prepared to work unsociable hours any day of the year, at any time, including weekends and public holidays. * Able to work to tight time constraints. * Successfully complete initial training and recurrent training programmes Benefits Full time basic starting salary £10,815.00 per annum. Flying allowances variable and can vary each month depending on trip allocation. Typical new entrant cabin crew member can expect to earn in the region of £500 per month additional flying allowances. Holiday entitlement is 28 days (including public holidays pro- rated in first year). As the flying operation is 365 days a year, Cabin Crew must be able to fly on public holidays and religious festivals. Hotel accommodation whilst on flying duty. Free Uniform, worn in accordance with uniform regulations. Your remuneration package will be determined by your individual contract of employment. Whilst this varies from business to business, typical benefits include: * Profit share scheme* * Bonus* * Employee share scheme* * Car park, subsided catering, sports and social facilities. * Choice of contributory pension and private healthcare schemes * Opportunities for reduced air fare travel and travel discounts* |
Miss M.
I would be very interested to understand what you think would have happened when CC went on strike,had no one had volunteered to take striking CC's place. Do you and others think that you would be on the same TC's now. Rgds BF |
3cessnapete
We could argue over this for a lifetime. I believe a full WW schedule when I see it. That they are looking for VCC in the US is nothing but a sign of desperation and they are having trouble finding enough of VCC in the UK. I don't even want to know how much this is costing BA. They should have settled with our previous proposal and none of this would have happened. It is not OUR fault that the public is against us. Blame WW and his so called management. Chuchinchow Why? I said to you earlier that unless you remove your patronising attitude I don't want to debate with you. You said in a PM that you couldn't care less. What's the problem? skylight Crew have been told different things then. I know of several "language speakers" who were recruited and told that they could use ST to get to LON. Wirbelsturm I think you will see that most crew are taking their responsibility in getting to and from work. Commuting crew are spending a huge amount of time and money to enjoy their lifestyle. But, some crew were recruited to the company and told that they could use ST. Some will argue otherwise. This is a discussion which could go on and on forever. If BA is a good employer is debatable. At least it used to be until WW took over. He has done nothing good to the company. We are becoming a laughing stock with a falling service and brand. Timothy Claypole No, it's not difficult for me to fathom that everyone doesn't agree with me. Everyone crossed the picket line for whatever reason. But, I still think that every member should follow what the majority vote for. If a union calls for a strike, every member strikes. Facts remain that every ballot has had a strong turnout so there is definitely some disagreement amongst the cabin crew. Tiramisu You are paying your mortage with money which BASSA have negotiated for you. It says BA on your payslip but the amount of it is because of BASSA. I can't afford not to strike. Sure it's a dirty job. I have lost £1400 in basic pay plus trip allowances. I don't know exact numbers but I have probably lost somewhere around £2500 in total. Why am I striking? Because I believe in it. It's always a last resort but dealing with a management which is not interested in serious negotiations is not easy and brought us to where we are today. Our strike has not achieved anything yet which is the fault of all those crew who reported for duty and all VCC who have been trained to do our job. If they hadn't, we wouldn't have been here today. I can only hope that any future strikes will bring back both sides to serious negotiations and a reached settlement. beesflyer If nobody has crossed the picket line or volunteered to become cabin crew, BA would have been grounded and WW had been forced back to the table for some serious negotiations. I don't doubt we would have reached a good deal. |
MissM wrote:
If nobody has crossed the picket line or volunteered to become cabin crew, BA would have been grounded and WW had been forced back to the table for some serious negotiations. I don't doubt we would have reached a good deal. Hint: that person was you. |
If BA is a good employer is debatable. At least it used to be until WW took over. He has done nothing good to the company. We are becoming a laughing stock with a falling service and brand. BASSA and its advocates take everything to heart and act emotionally. Willie Walsh was also CEO when BA made its greatest ever profit. Willie Walsh is not interested in Jane Bloggs from IFcE personally. He doesn't know, personally, the names of all BA's employees. That is the line managers job. From them to the department manager to the head of department to the CEO to the board. Welcome to business. Willie Walsh has a mandate to ensure that the company survives, is profitable into the future, provides investors with a safe investment vehicle and is competitive. He will delegate the responsibility of deciding what changes are viable to his senior management team, in the case of IFcE Bill Francis. In this case the prior history of the intransigence of BASSA has led BA management, finally, to decide to grasp the nettle and address the problem head on. As far as BASSA are concerned that makes Willie Walsh the henchman. However BASSA have been a thorn in BA's side through their militant stance for the past 15 years. Hardly a year has gone by without threats of strike action from BASSA because they don't like something. The benefits taken into the future far outweigh the short term costs now. This is no longer about £10 million here or there, this is about BASSA disobeying Unite, as they felt they were sold down the river by Tony Woodley last time, and desperately trying to cling to the power they felt they held over the past 15 years. Far from being a bully, Willie Walsh, through his management team is finally standing up to the playground bully that is known as BASSA. |
Miss M
Miss M,
Whilst I applaud your tenacity, you may want to consider a thought: When you fly in the face of adversity, in this case adversity means 40,000 other BA workers, other Unite members, your senior management, your board, your shareholders and the majority of the general public, so in total maybe 40 million people, it may be prudent to consider that maybe you've got this wrong... "he/she who hold their head high in the face of adversity are likely to get it shot off" |
Miss M
Simply repeating BASSA soundbites neither makes them facts, nor any more convincing. They remain simply that: BASSA soundbites. Carry on repeating them, if it makes you feel better. In the meantime, here are some more FACTS to dispute your BASSA soundbites. Base closures were handled, as stated earlier, by 2 years of DUTY TRAVEL. Foreign recruits were given exactly the same staff travel perks as every other BA employee - to use as they feel fit. But hey, carry on "insisting" you are right. Your insistence, which never has any shred of evidence alongside it, does not make it right or fact. You also claim that the rest of us "enjoy" the achievements of BASSA. Wrong again. In the last 20 years or so, all the key agreements - long range agreement, midfleet, BEP 97, CSD talks, have all been negotiated by CC89/AMICUS. BASSA have either been on strike over them or refused to sign the relevant documents, even though they operate on them. I have neither the time nor the inclination to continue this "debate" when one side of it merely insists on repeating, parrot fashion, infathomable, unjustified statements. Miss M..... Malone, I presume? Could that explain why you're so concerned about the Professional Cabin Crew Council? www.mypccc.co.uk ;) |
MissM
I believe a full WW schedule when I see it. That they are looking for VCC in the US is nothing but a sign of desperation and they are having trouble finding enough of VCC in the UK. They should have settled with our previous proposal and none of this would have happened. It is not OUR fault that the public is against us. Blame WW and his so called management. Was it "WW and his so called management" who broke the confidentiality of negotiations by tweeting? Have you actually asked any members of the public why they were against you? I know of several "language speakers" who were recruited and told that they could use ST to get to LON. If BA is a good employer is debatable. At least it used to be until WW took over. He has done nothing good to the company. The fact that he was appointed as CEO of BA-IB suggests he's well-regarded by the board of at least one other airline. It's always a last resort but dealing with a management which is not interested in serious negotiations is not easy and brought us to where we are today. The following's from the judge's ruling in the February court case. "BASSA had a heated argument with Amicus and refused to cooperate together" "I heard evidence as to the course of events at ACAS and the following emerged. The BASSA and Amicus factions were separately represented and sat in separate rooms. Despite the efforts of ACAS they could not be persuaded to join forces for a meeting with BA. The latter raised the possibility of separate agreements with the respective factions but, understandably, that did not appeal. In the overall result there was no meeting between the Union and BA." |
MissM:
Chuchinchow Why? I said to you earlier that unless you remove your patronising attitude I don't want to debate with you. You said in a PM that you couldn't care less. What's the problem? I have a job I love, a salary and allowances that satisfy my material needs, reasonable pension expectations, and (for the most part) very congenial company while I am at work. I am not going to jeopardise all that by consorting with a morally bankrupt trade union that appears to function solely to protect and to advance the personal interests of the very "representatives" who are entrusted with the professional affairs of the rank and file membership. I expect and demand that my CSD gets off his/her rear end and help with serving the passengers. You are "playing the person, and not the ball", MissM, and that is a direct contravention of PPRuNe rules. You are doing that not only with me (who can and will respond) but also with Willie Walsh and every other member of the BA leadership team. And don't suggest that WW responds here; he will and does talk to your elected representatives - when they show up. If you don't like what I contribute to this thread you are under absolutely no obligation to respond. But you have - again. |
Wirbelsturm
Of course they should take it personally when WW is after their union. If we are to believe BA, he has never met any of the BASSA reps. He probably already has his opinion of BASSA. That is personal. BA has a fund which will help them. They will not go bankrupt. This has never been about fighting for our survival. It was one of his many, unsuccessful, attempts to send a message to IFCE. He has done nothing but damage to this company yet he's cashing out a huge salary every year. It's obvious it is no longer about £10 million. This has always been about breaking our union, once and for all, at any cost. It has NEVER been about reaching an agreement with us. We could have sold our souls and they never would have accepted it. Take the new trick for instance. How much will it cost to bring in the VCC from the US? harrypic A majority means nothing. A majority can be wrong. HiFlyer14 Sorry to disappoint you but I am not the one you are insinuating. DeThirdDefect BA will never be able to run a full schedule. But, I believe it when I see it. In such case I want proof that they are fully crewed with passengers and not just cargo or even worse, empty. Maybe there haven't been any fresh calls after VCC because they know it won't help. Maybe the interest previously was so low that they are going abroad. Who knows? We could have accepted any of the proposals put forward by the company if they had been waterprooved, which they obviously have not been. BASSA are making sure that any proposal includes that we will be fully protected but BA are not wanting this. BA pushed us to take industrial action. We did not. Nobody wants to strike and we are not striking for the sake of it. We are striking because we feel we have reached a dead end and we are not getting anywhere with BA. WW may be well-regarded by the board but it does not mean that he is well-regarded by the workforce. IB crew have conducted a poll and 80% of them have said that they will go on strike if WW takes over. They don't want him. As I said earlier today, I will buy a ticket to MAD and join them at the picket lines. BASSA were, as I have said a couple of times, in the beginning not interested in negotiations. That Amicus and BASSA could not sit in the same room was unfortunate. Ridicilous to say the least. Chuchinchow Good for you. |
Miss M...
It is not OUR fault that the public is against us I just hope that the public are purely against the 3,000 or so BASSAmentalists, and not the BA CC in general, who (in their majority) are backing BA by working through the strikes, resigning from BASSA, and generally NOT turning up at BFC. |
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