I'm told this will be one of the first routes for the new fleet, should it ever get of the ground.

But is another faceless city in the USA really a carrot? Its a dump as are most large cities in the USA:yuk:

Those places are where most people want to go too? You have lost your spark a little, it is still a great company with many commited and professional staff, just like yourself.

'Its a dump as are most large cities in the USA'.

They are if you don't go out and eat at McDonalds ,otherwise in vegas you can see a show,have a flutter,eat cheaply, go to the hoover dam or fly over the grand canyon for $10 on a ID90 and still have change from allowances.

Surely the question should be ,"Does it work?" eg. LGW. The answer depends on whether you are a beancounter, in which case, Yes or whether you are crew, in which case the loss of over £1000 per month certainly means No! It occurs to me this is another example of "shorttermism" This country is being used by groups to turn a buck and run. Sod the long term viability. Ship in the cheap labour, grab the cash and get out before the enquiry.

Been to Vegas recently Norm? Unless you do visit Macdonalds cheap eats is definitely off the menu these days!!

The problem is long term viability and paying £50K for a CSD or £35K for a Purser do not go hand in hand. Cabin crew costs and inflexibility are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Rather than turning a quick buck and running, the goal of newfleet is to create long term sustainability for the airline. Do you think LGW LH would be the only fleet in the company making money now if the old WW terms and conditions were still in force?

Loss of over £1000 per month, is that fact?

Equates to a loss of over £12000 pa sounds a bit hysterical rather than realistic.

This is inflexibility:

A so called "Early Report Day" (day off BEFORE the actual trip) is required if cabin crew has to report before 8 AM. The only trip in the network which actually gives this is a two day trip to TLV (Tel Aviv). The flight is around four and a half hours one way and includes a 24 hour stop in Tel Aviv followed by three local nights in London. The crew usually also gets at least a 20 minute break each way.

Jean Lil, Hysteria? No no facts my friend. I have the payslips to prove it. Busy times at LGW dashing back and forth across the Atlantic a few times in a month only equate to £1600 after deductions.

Carnage, CC clearly unworthy of that money but others are worth double and a whole lot more? I struggle to think positively about that. I do not resent modernisation. I do resent the importation of employees who will see no further than a few dozen paychecks to return to their mother country with, leaving the T & Cs here in tatters.

That's straying dangerously close to BNP territory pinkaroo. What has the nationality of newfleet employees to do with anything? Most temps I've flown with at LHR are from the UK and they are the ones who'll be crewing newfleet. Contrast that with the large numbers of Spaniards, Italians, French and Irish flying on present contracts.....

Also remember that £1600 per month after deductions would require an equivalent salary in the real world of around £24000, or around £2000 per month gross. Median full-time weekly earnings in London in 2008 were £613, and just £500 in the South East excluding London. £1600 per month is not a poverty wage but it does highlight just how lucrative some of the existing contracts are.

I happen to think some of our cabin crew are worth double the money they get. The problem is not that many are worth that money so the union agreements generate a huge salary bill but don't generate corresponding value for money. Add to that the fact that no CSD ever gets demoted back to Purser regardless of performance and you can see the problem. Perhaps the new performance management program the company is working on will address that, allowing those who excel to be rewarded and those who don't to face the consequences, but while we continue to put 4 supervisory grades on a jumbo on inflated wages simply because thats what the union wants then newfleet is going to appear a no-brainer for the company.

As for this new fleet (mixed flying), most airlines do it.

Alitalia (when they excisted), Emirates, Etihad Airways, KLM, Lufthansa, Qatar Airways, SAS and Swiss to mention a few have mixed flying. Why couldn't BA do it?

Most airlines also pay a hourly flying pay as opposed to premium payment, destination payment and such.

CM, I support the need to ensure a quality product is delivered by quality people. The less the poor quality give the more their colleagues who do care have to give to make up for them as well you know. I support the need for flexibility and terms may need tweaking. I have vast, but not personal experience, of short term, ten-in-a-house hotbedding, with a view to doing it cheap and getting out in three/four years with a cash sum to set up a business elsewhere. The likes of MOL thrive on it. Blair did it and made £16 million last year. I hope WW does not "Blair" BA and leave it on the life support machine UKplc finds itself in. The hotbedders are leaving in their droves. Who will stay and rebuild? I suspect WW has a deal that pays out on the difference between what he found when he arrived and the bottom line when he leaves. I realise this company is part of a career path you worked hard to achieve but please do not forget others may not have the technical background you have acquired but still enjoy being part of the success that is BA. They deserve to be recognised for that. Comparing Southeast medians does not always cut it when you are tired and stuck in some hotel etc.

I would love to have £1600 a month after deductions, and a lot of people would as well!

And I think the CEO's main objective at the minute is BA's long term survival, which means the whole airline has to change, as its competitors are and have. BA can not sit back and keep the status quo otherwise there will be no BA as we know it.

i believe about 60% of the cabin crew commute to and from heathrow.thats from UK airports and throughout europe and beyond.if longhaul crew had to fit shorthaul flying into their rosters,that would prove virtually impossible,if commuting some distance to work.considering the problems trying to park in the staff car park ,if commuting crews who now fly,opted to relocate near london and drive to work,another staff parking area would have to be provided,just think of the cost to BA of another huge car park ! if it could be secured near to T5,what a problem.also the loss of revenue from id90 commuters.all these proposals have problems attached.the current lack of facilities for staff driving to work is just one i can think of.

Bermudatriangle,

Can I just point out that being able to commute is a bonus and not a right? I don't think the company will look into how many commuters are in the company and how "shiny" fleet will impact on their lives.

As for earning £1600 a month (take home pay) - that is a good wage for an "unskilled" job. Yes, I know we're skilled in avmed, sep and the rest of it, but "unskilled" means no requirement for a degree from university, apprenticeship etc. What I don't agree with is the vast difference between bases doing the same job (but that's another story).

We thought we'd get the Vegas route on the LGW network, but no such luck. We'll have to wait another 3-4 days before we find out about our new route(s).

Gg

Glamgirl, I agree that the CC are trained in Avmed, SEP and deal with all matter of inflight scenario's BUT all too often if a crew is involved in such incidents we often hear CC claiming stress from the situation and declaring themselves unfit to continue to op despite the fact that they've been trained to handle such events.

Glamgirl, You seem so grateful for what you receive. I'm pleased for you.
You work at LGW and get the lower wage. Sadly BA would have everyone on it in the way Virgin do. I don't see the wage as being acceptable for the fatigue and disruption endured. The more the job is talked down the less the selfworth. Others sit and pontificate over the need for reduced wages and longer hours whilst hoping their own T & C s go unnoticed or hope their union has their back.

I suspect that last sentence was a subtle dig at pilots, but at the risk of sounding like a cracked record we've been benchmarked for years, and prior to the downturn BA were having such problems recruiting pilots they were actively considering restarting their cadet program. If you don't pay market rate people won't come. Simple. BA don't seem to be finding it too hard to get recruits for newfleet. Fatigue and disruption is a factor in the job, but it's a job we all chose and frankly it's a lot less of a burden than your average shift worker suffers. Fancy 2 days of 6 til 2, 2 days of 2 til 10, 2 days of nights and then 4 days off. Forever? Me neither!

Pinkaroo,

Am I grateful for earning less than LHR crew for the same job? NO
Am I grateful for a job in the current climate? YES

I chose to be based where I am, and I'm glad I've stuck with it. It brings me the quality of life I want. Yes, sometimes it's hard going, but mostly it's good.

What riles me with you, is your attitude. I don't care for it much. The way your posts come across is that you (and the rest of LHR) are the only ones who deserves a "decent" wage, and LGW and pilots aren't worth much. You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about something or other. I'm not really interested as to why you have this attitude/opinion, just wanted to point it out to you.

Gg

Juud,

There are 3 fleets in what we call "Mainline" (not franchise etc). Worldwide (long haul only) and Eurofleet (short only) - both at LHR. Single Fleet is LGW, mixed flying. Within each fleet, there is old contract and new contrac, ex-dan air contract, ex-cityflyer contract and ex-eog contract. Confused yet? So am I.

As I'm at LGW I can only speak for our allowances. We have basic, then hourly pay from check-in to check-out. A set amount per night away (peanuts, honest). Two days off after a long haul as minimum. "Overtime" (slight increase on hourly rate) after a certain amount of hours.

At LGW, most crew (apart from Cabin Managers) have 3 aircraft to their name: B737 (3 variants), B777 (2 variants) and A319/20/21. The reason we can have the 3 'buses on 1 licence is due to doors being the same on all of them.

On short haul, 1 supervisory grade (can be Purser or CM). On B777, we have 1 CM and 2 Pursers (for now anyways, we're threatened with one being taken off).

We have restrictions as to how many "earlies" you can do and how many "night flights" you can do, but it doesn't incur extra payment.

LHR fleets have a completely different allowance system, and tend to earn quite a bit more than LGW for doing the same job - whence the disagreements between bases sometimes, although most of us just get on with it. It's only when riled I get involved in the discussion.

We have a bidding system on LGW and EFLHR. Part time is guaranteed if you have a baby (although only for the mother). There is a list you can put your name on for part time, but the waiting can be endless.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Gg