Here at Planet Cranebank I was told yesterday that indeed there are nearly 1000 suitable candidates in the hold pool should any unpleasant things come to pass. Additionally there were 10 extra SEP trainers taken on last September with presently little extra work to meet that requirement. Added to this as well it was discussed last year that CST training staff could take on large segments of the NECC classroom days. The senior management of CST have stated that there is a need for 12 more training staff with presently not enough work for the existing staff.

Threat it may be or merely a logistics exercise as so many times in the past plans have been put forward and come to nothing. Past experiences have seen many fall at the first hurdle and one only needs to think of the great day a year or so ago when WW hailed the dawn of a new day that went t--s up about an hour later.

£8.34 an hour isn't exactly a long term attractant to the best and the brightest though. Having had a quick look through a couple of recruitment sites night cleaners and data entry clerks fall in to this sort of salary bracket.

With some sadness I have recently hung up my wings - fed up with being treated as some sort of problematic, overpaid cog in the corporate machine. I was lucky enough (and I know just how lucky in the present climate ) to go back to working as a Director's PA in London. I work hard, make use of my degree and languages and am paid the going rate which is something just above £26,000 a year.

In simple terms once the economy stabilises crew like me will leave. If you have brains, and a decent CV why work your heart out for under £9.00 an hour? For the first time in years I actually feel valued and able to progress on my own merits. I will always miss flying, but the mis-management and constant chipping away of cc terms and conditions made this decision inevitable.

I don't know why anyone who doesn't work as BA crew have such a huge interest in seeing our 'lucrative contracts' slashed. I go back to my origianal question. How would you like it if it were your contract in question. Forget the 32 points. Its not about that. It's about New Fleet. Its exactly what they did at LGW. They basically want rid of us. Why shouldn't we fight tooth and nail for our jobs and accept the £6000 per year pay cut. And also, lets face it, it's almost just how QF did it as well. Does it come as a shock that we say no?

In response to Crunchy, the Single Fleet at LGW wasn't exactly implemented overnight, ALL BA Crew knew it was happening but because it didn't affect the "Golden Runways" and you were unaffected it was allowed to happen. Another example of this has been the 11 month temp crew, again BASSA did little to allow this trojan horse onto the field.

I put it to all BA Crew, had BASSA gone to BA in the previous few years and negotiate a more sensible set of T&Cs then you may not now be left standing on top of a very big cliff.

In response to the "you can't take £500/month off me" posters, how about seeing it as having been paid that much over the odds (see CAA Crew Costs if you dn't believe me) for the past 25 years. I don't want to see anyone out of pocket, but I know so many crew that are intelligent, qualified people who must have known that this situation couldn't go on forever.

edited to correct my typos...F33

Flaps - Fair comment. We do share some opinions. I was at LGW when they shut it down and introduced the single fleet. I made my feelings quite clear then, that this 'not my aisle' attitude would bite us up the backside - not if, but when they tried it at LHR. I agree that BASSA should have done more then as well, but at the end of the day, when the deal was done, we had no choice. It was 'take lhr or leave it'. I personally went up there kicking and screaming. Now, it's happening again. Slowly but surely, the T&C's are eroding and we will not have it anymore. Enough is enough!! Yes, we're all standing on that edge of that cliff and it's not fun. I will support BASSA. I need to support BASSA. I don't want to go on the 'new fleet' thanks. :{

[quote][/Let us do some basic math on those figures 10,000/1200 = £8.34ph - now please remind us all of the minimum wage in the UK QUOTE]

We do live in a high cost living area. Our mortgage's is often out of kilter with our earnings. This is before ususal suspects such as water, electricity etc.. blah blah. The rest of our income is variable and is triggered by timmings, unfortunately not all crew enjoy 900 hours. My destinations are a lottery ticket, which come with different payment values. What may seem a busy time in the air may not have much value in the bank. I do enjoy my work, infact I do not see it as work. But I do need to feed and support my young family. So yes in my eyes this is minimum wage..

Hi Blue Riband

To be honest, if a reasonable hourly rate, with an increase to my current basic was offered. There is no reason why I or others would not explore this option.

Nevertheless, back to reality I am on a allowance based system with my Company looking to take away allowances trigger payments. I cannot afford this. My move is defenisve , but I am bringing the shutters down to protect my income.:hmm:

No, not hearing anything except unfounded rumour and heresay. Time to look for another job methinks.

I cant see us winning this one.

Sadly I suspect your right.

Sadly I feel that the company has the jump on BASSA on this one. If a strike ballot is called then the company can simply give 90 days notice to terminate all contracts. The new fleet can be up and running almost overnight with the option for any current crew to move over to the new fleet to 'secure' their jobs. Some will hold out and end up with no employment. Interestingly having spoken to numerous crew over the past couple of weeks a higher than expected number have expressed interest in the 'new' fleet especially if it allows greater control over lifestyle (bidding). During the 90 days most long haul departures will still operate with crew from Gatwick (were they are already mixed fleet), crew out of the hold pool and of course crew who have choosen to move to this fleet. Militant responses and strike ballots are just playing into company hands at this stage. Is this what I want to see happen... NO, I find most CC extremely professional and good at their jobs, and the biggest fear is of course where little Willie turns his attention next. BALPA has already been out played by Willie (open skies) and I suspect every move is planned.

Interesting post AH. Reading this and the Virgin thread make worrying reading.

It looks to me that we have to make change or contracts could be terminated with 90 days notice.

You mention a strike ballot...........if they were to introduce a new fleet, as looks incredibly likely, what legal grounds would be there to call a strike over?

Hey Crunchy and Twrecks

What would your sollution to the current crisis be? Do you realistically think we can go for a strike and it will all blow over?

I think if we did that we would be served 90 days notice of termination of contracts, and the goose which is laying the golden eggs will be well and truly killed.

If the unions have been given access to the company books, surely we should be negotiating a solution which keeps everyone in a job. Virgin are already making 154 crew redundant. Do we want some of our colleagues to face the same fate, or do you think it doesnt matter because they are only junior people?

I agree, we have to negotiate, and quickly.

The days of just saying NO and letting Juniors, or closing the Bangkok base is behind us surely?

You know what? I just don't know what the solution is. No I don't think for one minute that we'll strike and it'll all blow over. In previous years there has always been an answer but in my heart of hearts, I agree that we are on a very sticky wicket this time and its scares me. But if they are going to do us over, then it won't be without a battle. Not at LHR. There are too many crew that will reject this 'new fleet'. BASSA have admitted they cant stop it but I think BASSA will have to eventually do the best possible deal on the 'new fleet' because the deal they're offering on the table now is very bad. No-one can deny that. We should have stopped them from doing it to LGW but we didn't. We allowed it to happen. Partly ourselves to blame. Oh if only I had a pound for every time I said this would happen to crew back then. BA have a cunning plan. They've been planning this for years. They're ready. Crew in poole. Hundreds of temps that are current and waiting for full time contracts, full time trainers at Cranebank etc etc. I guess I just think, why go down without a fight!! Might seem a stupid attitude, but my job is worth fighting for. I love my job. The BA crew are brilliant - is it so wrong to feel that way?

Crunchy,

You say;

"I guess I just think, why go down without a fight!! Might seem a stupid attitude, but my job is worth fighting for. I love my job. The BA crew are brilliant - is it so wrong to feel that way?"

Guess the thing is though that our actions will reflect on all of BA, not just CC. A fight out in public, reflected in the press, or worse still the threat of Industrial Action, will loose BA passengers they cannot afford to loose.

The jobs losses at Virgin, and the 3000 at Air France-KLM this week show very clearly the impact of the recession on all airlines.

Think BA employs around 40,000 people directly with 1000s more employed indirectly in allied services. Any action you take will have an effect on all those people as well.

Yes of course this thread is about CC Ts & Cs, and yes of course you want the best for you, but remember everyone else that could also be affected.

TP - Valid comments. I'm very proud (well was) to work for BA as are most of my colleagues. I haven't met a crew member yet that hasn't been willing to make sacrifices. If we're going to be put on new, permanent, contract with reduced T&C's which will result in a substantial pay cut forever, then so should the rest of the company employees (pro-rata). Everyone should be treated the same way. Isn't that fair? Why should one community foot the entire bill? I'll bet if they got another £350m fine they'd find the money. Oh yes - they'd get it off us!!

Hey Crunchy

I didn't think anyone was going to be put onto a new contract unless they chose to go to the new fleet.

If you choose to stay on the fleet you are on, you are stuck with your current way of doing things.........on a route network that is very likely to rapidly become less well remunerated. For example, LH might perhaps lose SIN, HKG, BKK, LAX and SFO, and SH might perhaps miss out on a lucrative dinner payment in GVA, ZCH or OSL.

At least thats the way I understand it, but you have to read between the lines from each side at the moment.

We can't 'fight' for anything if there isn't anything that we can't legally strike over. They have already published the 32 point list of things that I think we really wish that the media didn't know about.

Gaz

Hmm Gaz

The media would have a field day with the "I'm only on minimum wage" line. Yes, if we are sick for a fair while, then our pay is low, but when the times are good, in my experience, they are very good!! If they weren't I bet we wouldn't bring back so may 'bargains' from Macy's, and Crate and Barrel etc.

The dumbest thing we have done recently was during the snow.......that was just too public an example of what our agreements required!!! IMHO

Crunchy

This has been happening within the company for many years now. CC have been largely insulated from thanks to BASSA - unfortunately it's your time in the firing line.

I'm not saying it's right or fair but the rest of the company have been suffering for years - for example my old department had 40 engineers working rotating shift patterns 24hrs a day 365 days a year. They now have 25 engineers doing the same job that 40 guys did only five years ago.

Their contribution to the company's cost savings is 3 redundancies - they have NO union to protect them either reapply for your old job or leave are the only options available - this is fairly typical throughout the airline.

Be careful what you wish for!