SLF getting worse?
 

On my Cityflyer trip EDI-LCY this morning I had to admire the continuous polite good humour of the CC (esp Purser) who had to put up with a whole bunch of the most idiotic SLF it has ever been my misfortune to share a plane with. One continued a phone conversation long after the engines had started, and eventually had to be specifically requested to switch off his Crackberry as we pushed back; he then switched it on again AS WE WERE IN THE FINAL APPROACH to LCY. He switched his mobile on as soon as we had taxied off the runway, and Purser asked him to switch it off - he muttered, but appeared to comply. Another switched his mobile on the instant we were on stand, despite the engines still running and seat belt sign illuminated. Purser asked him to switch it off, explaining (when pressed and in the face of stubborn refusal) that he had had to evacuate an a/c in similar situation and the process had been hampered by SLF mucking about with mobiles. Also as soon as we were on stand, half a dozen of them leaped up to grab bags, and had to be requested to sit down again.

I have honestly never seen such a concerted display of bad behaviour by SLF, and their arrogance in the face of polite, reasonable safety requests made my blood boil. Surely an experienced traveller would demonstrate the fact by acknowledging that the extra 30 seconds wait is NOT going to make-or-break his multi-billion-dollar deal? Or that the size of his male appendage is not inversely related to the length of time he spends sitting strapped in his seat?

So, are SLF getting worse? Or was this an isolated incident?

I know what you mean,i fly every week as a fare paying passenger i just wish the Capt would "tweek" the brakes when all these stupid people stand up trying to get bags out of overhead lockers etc,before coming to stand,if we were to need to do an emergency egress then all these people lying on the floor would get trampled on........especially by me! I am a liscensed line engineer for over 27 years and in my opinion SLF are just getting frustrated with all the regs security and feel maybe this is their one kick back at authority ! Stupid but ignorance is bliss.

All in a days work for us cabin crew! Not wishing to sound blasie about the whole incident, it happens and we are powerless to stop these idiots from doing it anyway!

If there was an evacuation i'd be happy to leave these ingnorant fools to find their own way off my aircraft, however in reality i'm too professional to let that happen!!

Anyway, rant over! I agree though 100%, passengers (some) are getting beyond belief!

Nesboy

I find that the less SLF pay for their ticket, the more they want for it. They get annoyed when they don't get a hot meal from the Ivy in economy, for a start.

For a lot of people, manners have gone out the window, and I find more people fly off the handle for the smallest thing. Don't get me started on some parents...

As has been said already, all in a days work. But I do wish that some people could be more polite and put things in perspective.

Keep smiling though, folks. We only have to put up with them for a while, whereas they have to be like that for the rest of their lives (wise words from a colleague many years ago).

Gg

Disobeying CC instructions should be a finable offence, these things could potentially endanger lives of other passengers - in certain situations that is. It's beyond me as to why they all debuckle as soon as the aircraft has touchdown, taxiing is one of the critical points of a flight; that they still don't seem to get.

...why do some think it is below themselves to even reply to your greeting, acknowledge your existence or even look at you as they board.... they are too busy talking into the worlds worst invention the 'blackberry' so they just thrust their boarding card at you and expect you to be able to read upside down as they whizz past you!!

Whilst I'm at it too, why when you all (CC) bust a gut to turn around the ac very quicly and cut down the delay, actually arriving only 15 mins late do they huff and puff and constantly check their watches whilst the airbridge is being attached??? Get a grip!!!

I shudder to think how bad it will be when the whole mobiles on ac is commonplace. I for one may just forget to switch the transmitter on!

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

After landing, but still taxiing, a few months ago, I had made my "welcome to London" PA. As we neared stand and just barely started slowing down, we got the "doors to manual..", but seatbelt sign on, aircraft still moving, fiirst 1 then 2, very soon, about 15 pax were up, reaching to lockers, I made another PA, just reminding them they should still be sat down, strapped in, we may have to stop suddenly etc.. Within 2 secs, the brakes were just tapped, but enough to be quite a jolt.. They sat down.. When the capt came down, I told him I'd just made a PA then the brakes were tapped, how weird. He winked at me and said, "I know".... :ok:

I'd like to say that'd teach them... but we all know it probably wont. Next flight they will be stood up again whilst taxiing and some other CC will have to waste their breath trying to keep people from getting hurt.

How about another thread are CC getting worse??:ugh:

Its not just on aircraft, its society in general of the day. Right or wrong is a personal thing. To me its wrong. Just look at the children/young adults who board the plane. If they say "Hi or Hello" to you, you fall over with shock! :)

Generally flying now days is more a routine now than anything special.

I don`t take any of it personally and just advise about a possible situation eg standing up with seat belt sign on etc
If they don`t want to do it, the passenger will learn the hard way like children do. Remember when your mum said "Don`t touch the iron..its HOT!!!" and you of course one day touched the iron :uhoh: and what was it? mmm HOT! :eek:
Do you still touch a hot iron? Well the sane don`t, unless you have some sexual kick from it.
So if a passenger does stand up why get worked up? I`m near my door I`m strapped in etc.. I`m OK. One day they will learn about "that hot iron" :ok:

Care to expand that statement boeing..boeing..gone??

Nesboy

It might fit better on the SLF forum but I like to share it here since it is appropriate:

Last (Good) Friday I was on a flight to a major holiday destination. The lady on seat 25F (737-400) seats down open here notes and starts reading during the video of the safety demonstration. As we line up on the runway she makes the sign of cross (christian orthodox) and she keeps reading. When we arrived at the destination I asked her why she didn't look at the demo and she says she has seen it a billion times before but she thinks that making the cross sign she would arrive safely to her destination.

During the flight a pax was using his NOKIA mobile and I seriously doubt it was on flight mode. I toyed with the idea of pointing out that to the crew but I did not bother. We landed safely so I am right!


I think the point is that SLF thinks it is well above the regulation because it feels does not apply to them.


Edited to add: I love the sudden breaking idea: I learned not to stand after a similar incident back in 1982...
Rwy in Sight

Solution to SLF standing up too early
 

Surely the solution is to make the seat belts remotely lockable by the crew, like on a fairground ride (not to suggest that flying is the same as a roller coaster, I hasten to add).

Then the CC could even unlock them row by row after arrival.

Tiger
 

I like you don't give a damm about the PAX who stand up during taxi in but if you don't try to get them to sit down and they fall on some one then it is the airline that they will be after for compensation NOT the pax who fell on them.

Probably the grounds will be that the airline had a duty of care and by not telling the pax to sit down faled to protect the pax who was the victim of the idiot who would not stay in his seat.

Stockpicker, you obviously had a fairly civilised bunch of fellow travellers, you should try the very UNcivilised buisness people who fly from Manchester to London or the reverse route. The get up to all the tricks you mentioned but also use every weapon available to try to get to the front of the queue of disembarking passengers and I do mean everything - feet, stiletto heels, elbows etc. The MAN-LHR and LHR-MAN are the only two flights on which I request a window seat and then sit waiting until the business yobbos are safely out of the way before I leave the aircraft. How the BA cabin crew put up with their appalling behaviour day after day I will never know and yet they continue to smile and be polite to people.
Glamgirl,Really? I find that remark quite offensive. As someone who took slightly early retirement from the NHS I don't have a huge pension so I am very careful with what I pay for tickets. I don't spend my time demanding things I am not entitled to and am usually very happy to help with any medical problems where I can. Please remind me who you fly for so I know which airline to avoid. :*

I just get annoyed with time wasters, I had a chap yesterday who got on and immediately asked to speak with the Purser. He was annoyed by the fact we no longer pre board families with children. I asked him where his children where.... His answer... "I don't have any"

I want those 5 minutes of my life back please.:ugh:

Hey DX Wombat, don't be offended. What Glamgirl said is a generalisation.

Thank god, there are still a bunch of people who do behave correctly, who sometimes even put a sincere smile on your face, and make this job somewhat rewarding. If you're one of those people, a big thank you.

But it still does not change the fact that people do have a tendency of demanding more that they've paid for. In my humble opinion the worst ones are the ones that did not pay for the ticket out of their own pocket (so called business people).

Life is too short to get offended at something that wasn't really aimed at you.

As crew it's definately noticable that in general the less pax pay, the more they want, regularly in first the pax are paying upwards of 6k a ticket and they just don't ask for anything, they will eat whenever is convienient for the crew, they will ask you to do something "when you've got a sec...." and conversely people that pay £3-500 in economy want it and want it yesterday.

In fact, i once witnessed a stewardess going back to the galley for another meal trolley and was told by a passenger that it was completely unacceptable that he had to wait longer than the row in front and that she was a stupid F**king wh*re!!!

I have often wished that they still had a crew member on cargo flights!!!!

oh upgrades, the worst, worse than business people, worse than devil worshippers, they drink the bar dry, eat there own body weight in anything they can get there hands on and generally annoy other passengers and the crew!

"Surely the solution is to make the seat belts remotely lockable by the crew, like on a fairground ride (not to suggest that flying is the same as a roller coaster, I hasten to add).

Then the CC could even unlock them row by row after arrival."

I like your thinking, however it may prove a slight hindrence in an emergency situation!:ok:

Nesboy

why would it cause a problem during any emergency?

surely if they were all locked in they wouldn't be able to panic, run around like headless chickens and make an already stressful situation worse?

we've got to get all that equipment off, it'd be much easier to do if they weren't in the way!

We do listen in to those PA's as you can tell straight away that something is happening back there when you here CC making announcements at times when they usually wouldn't or when the 'normal' PA's have already been done. Than a quick tap on the brakes...we don't want to arrive toooo early do we? := :ok:

I was working in Club and a Passenger said too me that he had not touched his Club Tray and that I'm most welcome to Enjoy it !

Would you say that to someone working in a restaurant ?

I don't know, when I worked in a restaurant we used to devour anything the customers didn't touch. I put on a lot of weight!

The best one i saw was on Saudi Airlines going in to Jeddah. I kid you not the main wheels had just hit the runway when a 60 something Arab chap stood up on the row in front of me and opened the overhead locker. I was in utter shock. The cabin crew had a fit, but too late. I p****d myself laughing as reverse thrust kicked in and said pax was 'repositioned' about 8 rows further up the aircraft. He clawed his way back to his seat looking somewhat shaken not stirred:} It transpired he was desperate to get off for a fag (1 hour flight:ugh: )

A and C
 

Thank you for your comments, however I do say I advise regarding a situation which wouldn`t be the best for the passenger to do and there is a safety demonstration and several PA`s made though out the flight however you can take a horse to water but you can`t make it drink.

"why would it cause a problem during any emergency?

surely if they were all locked in they wouldn't be able to panic, run around like headless chickens and make an already stressful situation worse?

we've got to get all that equipment off, it'd be much easier to do if they weren't in the way!"

banewboi - How do you know that you won't be incapacitated and unable to release the passengers from their seats??

Surely getting the passengers off before the vast amount of equipment is your main priority?:ok:

Nesboy

How would you power such a system?

What if that power source failed?

Electro-magnetic locks. Once the power fails, the magnet automatically unlocks. Bit like those security doors you have in buildings which automatically unlock in a fire/power failure situation.


Back to topic now though. I did 3 flights today, all running between 10-30 minutes early. On the final sector we were boarding around about 15 minutes earlier than scheduled, most pax happy as they realised they would be leaving early and getting back to London early. One chap comes on, I ask to see boarding card and got the usual facial expressions (The "Why do I have to show my boarding card when I am boarding the aircraft?" expressions).

On arrival at London we landed around 20 mins early and had a slight delay with the ground staff getting the airbridge attached (new despatcher). All pax were eventually disembarked around 5 minutes before the scheduled arrival time. Mr Boarding Card pax as he approached the front and I said the usual "Thank you buh-bye" to him shook his head and walked off. Now, this type of pax I find annoying, we depart early, we land early, we gave the pax a pleasant flight (most other pax commented on how polite, attentive, conscientious we all were) but you can guarantee that there will be one tit every flight who will not be happy, no matter what you do. Still, I refuse to let it bother me as he was only in my life for the couple of seconds of checking boarding card and saying buh-bye to him.

Dx Wombat, I did not mean you or anyone else who behaves like a decent human being. I meant the SLF who pays peanuts for their flight and then expect newspapers, pre-take off drinks, champers in economy, a 3 course meal in economy, etc etc. The list is endless. I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention at all, and I'd be happy to warmly welcome you on board my flights any time.

AMS-LHR. Please be careful with the pa's you make. Your purser/CSD may not be happy with these pa's, and as you're new to flying, I'm guessing you still have some IFA's to get filled in. If you were crew on my flight I would ask you not to do the pa. Basically, if adults are silly enough to unfasten their seatbelt, leave them be, or call the SCCM. On the note of the mobile, have a look in the latest issue of CCN. It's all explained there. I don't want you to get into trouble with your peers. Obviously, if someone has taken their baby out of the lap strap and passing them over seats, then you can leave your seat.

Recently, I've had some wonderful SLF on board. It's been so much fun! Hoping for the same type tomorrow :)

Gg

To answer the original question, SLF are definitely getting worse.
As an engineer, I hold type ratings for most of the common types flying up and down the holiday routes. I don't know if this is a factor but I now find it almost unbearable, watching some of the behaviour I see around me when I travel. :ugh:
Look, I don't give a toss if you hurt yourself by contravening the cabin crew instructions, in fact, I pray you do. It's just that by undoing your belt during the take-off roll, you stand a good chance of flattening the occupant in front of you if we have an RTO, you big fat slob, because the hinge pin will break and you must weigh about 260 + pounds (actual conversation!). Yep, nice one, really clever.:D

I've noticed that people are no where more stressed than at the airport. Why? I have no idea. But it just seems to me that it's a habit to rush everywhere and get about constantly stressed. I have also noticed everywhere that people love to blame anything but themselves for their levels of stress.

Office workers turn up to their coffee bar everyday already late then blame the cafe worker for making them late for their meeting. Good one. Passengers get to the airport 30 secs before boarding closes then throw a hissy fit because they now have to rush. Something in the world not as you would like it? No problem just yell at the next person you meet. It won't change anything but at least you'll feel justified in acting like a 5 year old. :D:D:D

I love it that the price of air travel is more affordable now than it's ever been. But someone didn't get the message that it's more affordable now because we've now made (cheap) flying a bit like a McDonalds experience. No frills decor, basic comforts and a product that just passes the requirement. Sometimes I think the airlines themselves are to blame for not setting the expectation right. It sure does sell seats when you advertise a ticket for $39 with a glossy ad featuring well dressed FA's and a customer sipping wine. The reality though is that seat is more akin to the one on a public bus. Maybe if they advertised it with the pax standing up holding onto a handrail then the expectation for food, wine and a first class experience wouldn't be there....just a thought.

I'm very much of the opinion that an economy ticket should be an economy experience and that the first class experience is the privilege of those who wish to pay for it.

Airborne,

I would be interested to know how you and others would define "an economy experience"

Sure. To me an economy experience (in airline terms) is a safe seat to go from A to B on an aircraft that meets all the required safety standards. It's being allowed to board the aircraft, sit in that seat for the duration of the flight and having all relevant procedures adequately explained to me. Also expected are clean and tidy facilities. I would expect to be polite and courteous to everyone else sharing the space with me (including crew) and the same returned. And for a $40 fare I'd be very happy with that.
:ok:

Even though some fares are now as cheap as a bus ride some pax haven't quite got the idea that those cheap fares are a seat to get from A to B. Want full-service? You can have it if you want to pay a full-service fare. I think aviation could do better in portraying the difference between a commuter fare and a full-service fare. They are not the same product.

SLF or SLC as we called it/them/those then!
 

I've been in this industry since 1964, all within Flt Ops Services, never CC.
Flag Carrier,schedule & charter in the UK & overseas.

Every company I've worked for I've held SEP on operated acft types from Herald, 1-11, Brit 300, Viscount, Comet, 707, DC8, 1011, DC10, 747 & various BIZJET types.

Pax have gotten worse in their behaviour both pre boarding, inflt & post flt.

Reasons are rather simple I believe, as flying became cheaper, more people flew, many of those folks didn't have any idea of the travel protocols required/expected. This I blame the industry for, at no time have I seen a 'Code of Conduct' document produced and/or disseminated to pax.

With every tkt/res there should be a copy of said 'Code of Conduct' supplied, along with signage at all check-in/boarding gates.

Every time I travel be it duty or leisure, I always acknowledge the crew & check the Safety card, I wonder why? Having had a few interesting experiences, not being conversant with "how the **** do I get outa here and wave my I'm over here banner" I'd be stuffed.

Thanks Guys & Girls, you lot do a bloody hard job bloody well 99.99999999
of the time as most of us in the Industry try to do.

Don't call me I handed over my crewing dept 24 years ago!

You'll excuse a refugee from the Rotorheads forum dropping in here but I do spend a fair bit of time as SLF and I sympathise greatly with all of you CC.

I have just returned to Muscat after a visit to Kuwait flying with Kuwait Airways and Gulf Air. I am sure that some of you flying the European routes would be staggered at what goes on (or maybe not!)

Mobile phones beeping at all stages of taxy and even flight. Passengers not strapped in and seats reclined for take off and landing. Passenger in the row in front of me resting her head on the pull-down table during T/O and Landing. I-pods on all the time (aren't they classed as "electronic equipment"?) and of course, seat belts unfastened the moment the wheels hit the runway. A chorus of "clicks" up and down the cabin. People standing up long before we came to rest and the seat belt sign was out.

The poor old CC just seemed resigned to all of this and it is obvious that they are fighting a losing battle with their "customers".:ugh: I just felt sorry for them whilst making sure that there were no idiots in my row who might hamper my exodus if it was needed!

Keep up the good work.

I find most SLF to be pretty annoying, however, LCY passengers are the WORST of the lot. They all think they are hot shot City traders when in reality, most of them are jumped up junior gophers for the real boss who actually has other people do the work for him! Cant stand the bastard lot of them!

Thick pax here, WTF does SLF stand for ?:O

TTFN

Self Loading Freight :bored:

DeltaIndiaSierraPapa,

Please tell me you are not employed in Customer facing position.