I've only been on the 767 twice in 2 months! Most of my rosters have been made up of Airbus flights, I'm not on the 76 at all next month and only on the 75 twice.
Where are you going on the 767? I take it you've got IST and ATH on your roster too?

wow that's really good you can phone up to get your rosta. although i think i would find this a pain. at my company crewing email the rosters to us as soon as they are done. do you find phoning up and writing everything down a little long winded?

Lucky you AMS, enjoy your first flight!!!!
Hopefully I too will be where you are in a few weeks :ok:

btw, what is a supernumerary flight? :}

AMS, you should be able to print out your "planned allowances" which itemise everything you should earn, unless there are changes - and there WILL BE. Rosters on short haul can be very fluid and you have to go with the flow. One 2-3 day trip off standby or available can knock you off other trips, which can be quite frustrating.

With aircraft type, there is no real pattern to it, its just randomly allocated until you start bidding.

Have fun, you'll love it.

your roster
 

oh my gosh ams-lhr

your roster with 15 flights is such a lot... wow... they will be working you girl.. i used to get tired on 4-5 flights when I used to work for virgin.... let alone 15

enjoy ....:ok:

And,a CDG and back at BA is probably worth about the same in allowances as a 3 day JFK at VS!!

Sorry...could'nt resist!!

NSP
 

Hi ,

Could anybody give us an accurate explanation about the NSP (National Sector Pay?) agreement between LGW and LHR?
What does it mean "being part of the NSP" or being out of it ?
I understand (pls correct me if I am wrong) than LGW is now part of the NSP.
Does LGW being part of the NSP mean that they can negotiate some sort of agreement with LHR (whatever this might be) or that "automatically" they must be under same conditions as LHR staff?
If it is about being able to negotiate agreements, does this mean that in order to get an agreement of any sort both parties must agree?..(:ugh:)
What does it mean being part of NSP as opposed to being part of air cabin crew NSP?
I 've done a search on the forum but I could not find a clear explanation

Thanks:)

Unless I'm mistaken, NSP stands for National Selection Panel.

As far as I can remember, NSP covered EFLHR, WWLHR and WWLGW but not EFLGW (previously known as EuroGatwick until it's merger with BA Cityflyer, the 90s version).

EuroGatwick was created when BA purchased Dan Air in 1991 and was firmly held in "wholly owned subsidury" status which kept crews on lower paid, harder working contracts. They were not included in the NSP, for a variety of reasons, costs being a major one I would imagine.

EuroGatwick crew were allowed to transfer to EF LHR at a rate of 50 per year and they lost rank and seniority in the process, although they kept their basic salary and date of joining for staff travel purposes.

WWLGW has been disolved (with crew transferring to LHR) and Single Fleet LGW being created out of EFLGW. Current crew would be better placed to comment on whether they are or will be part of the NSP. If SFLGW does become NSP then these crew will have to be considered when it comes to internal fleet transfers.

Singlefleet LGW is part of the ACC NSP and new lists should be coming out soon for cabin crew so they will be able to put their name down for either EF LHR, WW LHR . When the fleet was it was a condition for the crew to be part of NSP .

Hope that helps & ive been waiting to tfr for 5 years like alot of LGW Crew !

Thanks!

Flyer, will there be an exact number per year of cabin crew to be transferred respectively to EF and WW? Is it true that no external recruitment will happen again for LHR?

kikko,

the rumours about no more external recruitment into the LHR fleets has been around for YEARS and YEARS. pay no heed to these rumours.

i seriously, seriously doubt that the company would agree (or even the union insist) to a fixed number of LGW crew being able to transfer to LHR.
the process that VS-LHRCSA mentions above was a 'gentlemans' agreement between the union and the company - it was never signed in blood. and toward the end of EF LGW they only transfered about 20 per year if i recall correctly.

it will purely be a case of putting your name on a transfer list and waiting for a call to offer you your choice of base and/or fleet when a gap in that base/fleet opens up.

BAboy,

I have also heard....that when the NSP will come to effect ALL Ba crew will be able to transfer across bases and fleet retaining their seniority and status.
Subject to operational needs staff will be able to transfer to their preferred base by applying.
At the same time BA may decide to transfer people according to the manpower needed at different bases etc.
If this is is true I wonder how the salary contract etc. is going to be affected since LHR and LGW have different contracts. (eg. If a LHR crew get transferred to LGW will his/her contract etc. change too?:eek:)
I understand that the transfers from LGW to LHR were done on a gentleman agreement basis, however this NSP agreement what is going to be ? another "gentlemen agreement"? Or something kind of "law binding"?

What I can't get my head around it is:
If LGW (like it was when Eurogatwick existed) was a subsidiary, different contract and conditions may apply for the same position, rank etc.
BUT if LGW will (or is?) mainline how can this be? It's a huge contradiction,
unless of course LGW is legally something different (???) and will always be than LHR.

Thanks again!!

Kikko,

For your information, NSP will result in anyone from LGW being able to apply for transfer to either WW or Eurofleet. They will now be able to retain their seniority and see their general terms and conditions change also.

As you are aware, there is an issue as BA has a pool of external people awaiting placements to Eurofleet. Although we all feel for them they have simply received the offer of a job; no formal contract has been signed. For this reason, BA are well within their rights to amend their offer to LGW and if that offer is declined they can simply state that this is their final (and only) offer. My view is that this is what they will do as NSP will not allow them to recruit externally for LHR again - unlike they did a number of months ago. This really would cause uproar. They have already been warned of the possible implications such an action will have.

NSP
 

lhrtolgw, I see your point but at the time when those who were recruited for EF, there was no agreement made yet. I suppose once that agreement is in place they wont put out anymore vacancy for LHR. I cant see why there should be an uproar if BA gives us our EF courses as thats the post we applied for and the offer was made in May/June.

Londonphilou,

As I and others have told you before, none of us have an issue to grind with those people in the holding pool and I for one wish you well. When it comes to this business we should all be happy for the next person if they get what they want.

One thing I know is that you appear to have been screwed by BA before you have even signed a contract and that is just plain nasty. Even BA normally wait a few years before they start doing that!!

:)Very best wishes.

Lhrtolgw
 

I can understand the position of LGW crew, but I tend to agree with Londonphilou. Also bear in mind there are many BA re-deployed staff like myself in the LHREF hold pool as well. We were offered either LHREF permanent or LHRWW temporary, but never LGW, I doubt that BA would risk leaving it's staff stranded, so I guess there will be courses for the LHREF hold pool (including external).

However I would understand if in the future BA decides to comply with the NSP agreement.

Very best wishes to you too.

DAWN :)

LHRTOLGW thanks for your answer, although it hasn't fully answered my original questions.
Regarding what BA may do or not do with people in EF hold pool that remains to be seen....but acutally this wasn't my question (even if I am in the hold pool).
My aim was try to understand a little bit more in depth what all this NSP agreement is about and what all the implications will be for all BA cabin crew at all bases...
I don't know if this a is a subject which can be fully discussed on this forum however if it is I still welcome a more global and accurate explanation.
By the way I would not like this to become in any way an argument about if people in EF hold pool should wait or not wait or whatever their (and mine ) future will be. This has been debated enough in my view ....and we all know where we stand with our decisions whatever they miight be.

gosh i didnt even know that BA redeployed staff are waiting for a course! Well one thing for sure is that they wont stay without a job and they SHOULDNT! But it doesnt quite mean that along with the redeployed staff BA will say "we promised to those people in the holding pool a course LHR EF so we should keep our words!" Eventually, when you get into the company (and i hope you get where u want) you ll hear a lot of horror stories about courses starting for LHR and then first day of the course the bad news arrived! "Sorry we now need crew for LGW EF" ......and??? nothing happened! "its simply an answer of take it or leave it". BA will never do something with good intention only if they HAVE to! I d say that coming Oct (which is only a week away) they will have to start sorting the final details of the agreement. When its in place then thats it! Its like WW not taking perm crew! It has been an agreement for years that BA will not be allowed to take external perm crew! ...and simply they cant do otherwise! Though knowing BA...and how late everything is sorted...i could see delays with setting the agreement in place!So yes you might be lucky! But pls dont say that you ll get it because you ve been promised it! It simply doesnt work like that!

NSP
 

Goddess - I really, really hope they get you fixed up asap. I had not idea you were one of those awaiting redeployment. I bet you're dying to get where you need to be! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.:):):)

Kikko - sorry but will try to further clarify:

Yes, with NSP all BA crew will be able to transfer between fleets/bases retaining their seniority and status (subject to operational needs and requirements at each base).

As different contracts are currently in operation at LGW/LHR, people would simply move across to the T & Cs at their new base and have their contract amended. This does not just apply to LGW people moving to LHR but also for those people who would want to move in the opposite direction (yes, believe it or not there are some).

It is my understanding too that an annual (minimal) batch of transfers used to take place from LGW to LHR on the basis of a 'gentlemans agreement' however NSP brings with it a formal, binding agreement which is something that LGW people have been awaiting for many years.

Yes, there used to be subsidiaries at LGW to supplement mainline BA services. This is no longer the case as everyone now works for mainline BA. That said, there are many people who managed to retain certain rights etc. from their previous employment with say Dan Air and so on (such as payments for tights - and yes, we all know how much that can save you). Yes, things are very, very confusing.

As mentioned above, making matters even harder to understand, although a mainline base, LGW crew are on a completely different contract to those people at LHR. BA are allowed to do this as they gained the agreement of the unions to do this when they first decided to introduce mixed flying. As a result, LGW has seen the introduction of an hourly rate as opposed to the more favourable allowance system in place at LHR.

Oh, and for what it's worth, if I were you I would probably hold on for Eurofleet too. You may well be the lucky (and last) people to get there externally and I wish you all the luck in the world. Just don't let them take the p..s and keep calling them.

Best wishes.:ok:

screwed..
 

Its not nice to say we have been screwed by BA already!! So far we are just waiting. I know some people have been in touch with recruitment and voiced their concerns about how long the wait is going to be and also those speculations coming from existing crew. They have emphasised one thing: DONT LISTEN TO ANYONE ESPECIALLY EXISTING CREW. Surely there are some recruitment people threading on here...who knows?

Londonphilou,

I was going to go down the road of suggesting you get off that high horse of your's or at least something like that but it just wouldn't work would it? It just seems whatever any of we crew say to you is either not good enough or incorrect.

If you are that sensitive do you really think this is the job for you after all.....???? :ugh:Also, surely your 'friend' within BA will have told you that we survive on supposition and gossip? It's the mainstay of any CC community.....

newbagr - please tell me, is it me or is it a waste of time advising some people?

xxxxxxxxx

Thanks LHRTOLGW for your explanation!
I hope you don't mind if I still dig in....

"..... however NSP brings with it a formal, binding agreement which is something that LGW people have been awaiting for many years. "

In what way the agreement will become binding? To my very limited understanding an agreement or else become binding when, if not honoured, it contravienes the low. If it deoesn't both parties could change their minds at any time whithout any "legal" consequences but only with a grat deal of disappointment etc.
Have the terms of this agreement been fully discussed and agreed yet?
If they have what are the outlines? If they havent't when will they be?

Sorry if I may sound pedantic in my questions but I rather form a picture from facts rather than opinions (which btw can also be welcome expecially if they are asked).
maybe if there was a Unionn Rep. on this forum could tell us some more...

Just a curiosity:

"BA are allowed to do this as they gained the agreement of the unions to do this when they first decided to introduce mixed flying. As a result, LGW has seen the introduction of an hourly rate as opposed to the more favourable allowance system in place at LHR."

Did LGW crew supported the unions at that time? In other words who did the unions reppresent at that time?

xxxxx
 

I was not aiming only at you lhrtolgw...I was talking in general.
Thanks for all your advice. But to say we are already screwed is not what I would call an advice, more like an insult!
Best to leave it as it is and wait until the bosses make their decision. Good luck with your transfer.

Hi Lhrtolgw!
 

My life has been turned upside down overnight and the waiting and not knowing what's gonna happen and when is absolute agony.... My life is in a limbo right now, just hope it starts to move forward again soon. :ugh: :ugh:
Thanx for keeping your fingers crossed. :ok:
By the way the NSP info is very interesting. I hope that all at LGW finally get the equal opportunity they deserve to move between fleets. After all we all work for the same company.
As for external applicants in the LHREF hold pool, I still say hang in there and never give up hope. Think positive. :D
All the best to all.
DAWN :)

Dont worry
 

Thanks Dawn and same to you too. You will be fine. No need to worry. You will be the among the first to get a course before anybody else. :ok:

Kikko, the actual ins and outs of the NSP are very difficult to explain in a public forum such as this. You are probably better off speaking to a union rep if you need absolute clarification. As far as I know it's an agreement that dates back to 1974, when BOAC was merged with BEA. Further mergers have since been taken into account, including those of British Caledonian and British Airtours.

I've spent some time in the BASSA office over the years. The NSP manuals are huge, thick volumes of legal writing which would take forever to explain. The NSP is still legally binding and you see plenty of evidence of this in the day to day runnings of the airline.

When mixed flying was introduced at LGW it was seen as a win-win situation for all. EFLGW crew were already on an hourly rate (inherited from the Dan Air merger) operating short haul routes. They had already become accustomed to a new bidding system and for them, mixed flying meant an opportunity to fly long haul routes. Having the bidding system, they were able to have control over their rosters. They were also told that the new "Single Fleet" would be incorporated into the NSP and they would be given the chance to tranfer fleets after two years.

WW LGW crews were all transfered to LHR, which is something that the majority of crew wanted. This is how Single Fleet was allowed to be created and arguably the fairest way to incorporate LGW into the NSP.

Thanks VS!

Now I understand why the unions agreed:
they offered all BA mainline LGW WW crew to go to LHR and to mantain their contracts (and as you said the majority did) whilst in the meantime they offered Eurogatwick the possibility of doing long haul and to be part of the NSP.
In that case the unions didn't have much more to negotiate obviously.
So would it be nearly true saying that LGW SF is a "glorified"Eurogatwick? And the fact that is now "mainline" it only applies to the possibility of easier (?) transfers whilst maintaining the seniority and rank?
When a purser transfers from LGW to LHR will he /she automatically receive same salary, contract and condiotions of LHR purser with same seniority?

That right, Kikko.

However....Purser vacancies at LHR (WW and EF) come up so rarely, Pursers at LGW who will have the RIGHT to transfer in rank, will realistically achieve a transfer after at least 10-15 years. Remember, there are a lot of very senior pursers at LGW who've been there since Dan Air and weren't affected by the 55 retirement age that was only recently abolished from mainline.

This will mean either LGW for life (so to speak) and working your way through the ranks OR transferring to LHR as main crew as soon as you can. One thing to note, under NSP, you CAN NOT downgrade to achieve a transfer, so the choices you make in the first few years at LGW will impact your career path.

Makes your head hurt, doesn't it.....lol

VS you are far more eloquent and informed than I.

Goddess - I can appreciate the feeling of being in limbo but just try to look at this as the calm before the storm. You'll soon be rushing around FCO/ARN/GVA/IST and wherever else like crazy enjoying all those sights and sounds; new colleagues; having a laugh; shopping like never before....the list goes on. I am soooo excited for you - I'm sure it'll happen very, very soon! :)

wow! VS-LHRCSA you've got a fantastic memory.

it's nice to see somebody on here for once who actually knows what they're talking about.

:).

Hallo everbody

After having well read what all of you have said (all very interesting)
I decided to call BA (as LHRTOLGW suggested).

I have asked about loosing the opportunity of EF course placement becouse of BA won't be recruiting externally for LHR anymore in the not too distant future.
I must say I have been much reassured that this is not going to happen.
Now who to believe?....Does recruitment knows better or not?....:confused:..or they just say things for the sake of it?...Who to trust? Could they say somtehing today and something completely different tomorrow?.......
Is BA truly like a flag in the wind?.....:hmm:

Melany
 

I know a couple of people who have rang too and being told the same thing. I was also being reassured but by email when I wrote to them but I have not called. Lets hope its true but we will never know until it happens.

Ams-lhr ----- Congratulations --------
 

Great news.... :ok:

Sorry to hear about your colleague......not making it :eek: Must be heartbroken.

All the best for your first day... :D

DAWN

Enjoy your first flight as Air Cabin Crew AMS-LHR :ok:

Was there a reason why the person was asked to leave ?
SEP/FIRST AID EXAMS etc .. do please tell, As a warning to the rest of us.

Melany,

It's not a question of whom to trust. It's more a question of there is alot of things going on in the background and NO ONE can or are able to give you a definitive answer.

Just a couple of months ago crew at LGW were told that there would be no more direct entry recruitment into LHR and right after that they recruited 154 direct into LHR. Crew on temp contracts were told that it would be a temp contract only and then they were given permanent contract at LGW.

At the end of the day people, recruitment, crew, wannabees can tell you what they want, you can believe what you want but until it's in writing in black and white it's not certain (and even then things can change)

As so many of our managers like too say you'll just have to wait and see.

Hi AMS-LHR --- So.. how did yr first flight go ?...
 

Looking out for yr post.....

Waiting... tick tock tick tock....

DAWN :D

Hi

The figure of 154 sounds like the total redeployment figure from the Regions ? BA Staff who were redeployed were part of the Ground NSP, and also had certain rights which stem back to their orginal contracts, that may explain why they had permanent contracts.

BA LHR WW offered redeploys temp contracts, as to keep in line with NSP agreements. I am sure they will be offered permanency on LH, and if not Short Haul on Eurofleet at the end of their 11 month contracts. ( BA offered the secondments to resolve a serve shortage of crew in world wide.)

Eurofleet is a good fleet ! LHR - AMS you will be very happy xxx

Ta

Twrecks

Hi Twrecks!
 

I am one of the re-deployed BA staff not in the UK by the way and we were offered the LHRWW temp contracts or LHREF perm contracts at the assessment, however we were very clearly told that if we chose the LHRWW temp contract we could be terminated at the end of it with no guarantee of further employement with the company.

We were never offered this alternative as secondment. So when you say Ba offered the secondments to cover shortage of crew in world wide, could you please clarify where you get this info from?

If your info were correct it could cause a lot of anxiety for the BA re-deployed staff who have chosen LHREF permanent and are still in the hold pool. :confused:

Thanx.

DAWN :confused:

ba would never offer the redeployed staff perm lhr ww, it would cause an uproar!! and go against all current agreements.

Dawn
 

As you know I am re-deployed ground staff going LHRWW on temp 11 month contract,at the end of this I will be in the same boat I was before I decided to try for the temp contract......... either way BA have always said they will have a position for me if I want one (where that is could be/ aand what position is anyones guess) what I am trying to say is as current BA staff awaiting LHREF you will get there in the end its just a case of waiting......


I think that makes sense?????:hmm: