Hi colleagues

Has anyone heard if we are getting our backpay this week?

Is that 'over promise, under deliver' line they drummed into us in training not appicable to payroll or management?

WIRGIN BLEW,

It was interesting to read your comments regarding the seat belt sign and when crew should sit down.

As a crew member for 30 years I realise how inconvenient it is to halt the meal service because of turbulence.However if it is good enough to have the seat belt sign on to protect the pax then it is also good enough to protect the cabin crew.Otherwise you would not have the sign on in the first place.

I find the VB classicification of turbulence interesting but I can assure you that turbulence can occur at any altitude just not when in close proximity to the ground.

Backpay? Anyone know anything?

Crewbus,

I haven't looked myself, however another member of my crew got two payslips this week. One for normal pay and the other for backpay. But, alas, the backpay amount was no deposited into her account. :ugh: :ugh:

I got mine... apparently was processed last friday, and would have been deposited into different banks friday night/monday morning

What happened that caused crew to be paid short in the first place?

Sinala- mine finally arrived in the bank on Monday morning.


Lowerlobe- we were never "underpaid" in the first place- the back pay is a result of the on-going negotiation of our eba. We haven't had a payrise in two years.:ugh: :ugh:

am curious how you can receive backpay for something that hasn't been voted in yet?!?! :confused: :confused: :confused:

The Company and FAAA have agreed that this amount of 3% is seperate to the agreement and I guess is to be seen as a gesture of goodwill by the company.
Kind of like the commission we get paid for onboard sales, nothing in the EBA about it but just another gesture of goodwill.

One week till the 4 crew start on the 800. Most seem to be resigned to the fact that this is the way to go. Please fill in safety reports if you think things are going amiss and meal break forms as well.
We cant reverse the decision but we have to let the company know if its not working.
My scenario is R2 picking up the 8 UMNR's, R1 standing at the overwing, and the CS halting boarding for any number of good reasons leading to delays. What problems have the rest of you forseen?

Wirgin Blew, I echo your sentiments re boarding and disembarking on the -800 during refuelling being the major safety setbacks. Ground crew told me the other day they have already been told that 8 unmins will change to a cap of 4, which is a start. I suggested that Ground Crew bring them to the aircraft and sign them over to the CS at the L1 door. A point that was made was that ground crew are unlikely to ask the questions that CC want the answers to (medication, food allowable, can purchase stuff of carts etc etc) - not through intentional negligence, but because they already have enough to think about. Possibly the unmin forms can be expanded to include sections where parents can answer all the questions CC would usuallly ask?

Vb
 

Do Virgin Blue cabin crew also work on Polynesian Blue aircraft that fly to places like Vanuatu and Fiji or is that a different company?

Virgin Blue, Pacific Blue and Polynesian Blue are all crewed by separate companies (at least I think Pac Blue and Poly Blue are not crewed by the same crew!)... at this stage, VB crew operate domestic sectors only.

The cap on unmins is a good idea, however we have a cap NOW which the ground supervisor can lift at his discretion - the cap of 4 needs to be frim. Not sure a form with the questions on it is a good idea as I find parents just tick boxes to get their kids on - when you actually ask them if there are any medical issues - they suddenly come forth with some. My understanding is JQ doesn't bother with unimins and I can see why!

Thre crew ratio has not changed - it is simply that CASA has given VB an exemption on the 800 - which means that if CASA audits us and thinks its unsafe (ie - no time for the over the top briefing to be done properly - or R2 not making it to the overwing before the stampede) then they will withdrawl the exemption - so safety reports are essential! Its only if parliment ever change Oz to 1:50 that the 4 crew will be permanent. Hopefully CASA will see the better of this little experiment.

Anyone else being hit with massive hours lately??? My understanding was we were only going to be hit with mega huge trips AFTER the bidding system??

Adam xoxo

I am finding at the moment, in general, I am getting long days with relatively short rest periods... I dont mind working long days or working up to what we are able to be rostered (140 or 135 hours), however I do object to it when there is insufficient time to use a rest period for Rest. Rest does not mean bus to hotel, check in, strip off uniform, iron next uniform, eat Tony Ferguson shake for dinner, do tomorrows paperwork, climb into bed, sleep 7 hours (if you are lucky), get up, get ready, eat Tony Ferguson shake for breakfast, get bus back to airport - just to do another 9 hour day with short rest all over again!

Rest is also about winding down and relaxation - "de-working" for a bit. This is something I have bought up in the past, and will bring up again. I know some crew want to be home as often as possible, and thats great. However for those of us who actually enjoy the travel, I think crew would look forward to going to work more if they had time to spend in the cities we fly to - outside the hotel! ESPECIALLY in Melbourne - 15 hours from midnight till 3pm the next day at the airport hotel is mind-numbingly painful. I personally believe little things like this (giving crew enough time to get out there and see the places we fly to - doesnt have to be 5 days or anything, but sufficient rest - even with long days thats fine - just give us time to get out and about as well!) will really increase crew morale and engagement. I understand there is talk of increasing Min rest in the next EBA to 11 or 12 hours, but 12 hours really is still not enough to see or do anything other than the hotel really!

I love my job, really I really do, and want to continue to do so! Sure there may be a bit of a cost increase in transport to and from MEL city hotel instead of us walking to the airport hotel, but especially on the midnight arrivals into Melbourne this would greatly reduce sickness on those trips I think - so the costs would balance out. Same goes for the bus system in SYD - spending sometimes up to an hour of your rest period sitting in airports waiting (half hour at sign off, half hour at sign on) because of the bus schedules is not particularly pleasant.

I am going to Pro-actively bring these points up in the forums - I want to present solutions rather than problems - its these little things that make such a difference to crew, and I believe that people who don't fly and dont live the lifestyle we live cant really understand that (not through lack of trying - moreso through lack of living their lives out of a suitcase!). With the massive cost savings achieved through the 4 crew on the -800, combined with other cost savings that will subsequently be achieved if the new work rules come in, I believe there is scope for a little bit of change in our favour too :)

Oh and just to clarify, its important that people understand that this is *NOT* a whinge/bitch - moreso a suggestion on ways to, as D.R. says in his email sign off,
- because everyone used to love working for VB - now I am finding each subsequent VA Exchange group that comes back from the UK is commenting on the noticeably decreasing levels of job satisfaction amongst crew.

Thankyou :)

sinala for prime minister:E

Morale is going down but the comment that I had heard recently was "out with the old in with the new". That was in reference to the fact that VB turns there staff over. I dont like to believe this as it costs money to train people and to have them leave just when they are getting efficient is madness.
People are leaving for various reasons and in the last week alone I have flown with more than 5 which is possibly the reason why the hours are out of control. I personally have been around the 125 for the last 6 months but next month it has dropped to 110 ish. These are only rostered hours, add in the AVL days and this number starts to go up.
Also I just feel like DR is "over promising and under-delivering" atm with the EBA. First it was Sept 06 then Dec 06 now we are looking at Jun 07. WTF is going on with this. Let us have a look at the EBA and decide whether it is even worth looking at rather than drag it out for 6 months then vote no anyway.
As BG said in his email about LH. We need to stay focused on SH which is our business.
Sorry if I am ranting, too many early starts.

Where did you get that info? :eek: The email that came out the other day said "very near future" for an EBA...

[QUOTE=wirgin blew]
As BG said in his email about LH. We need to stay focused on SH which is our business.

Hey guys,

What was this email??? I must have deleted it

Thanks

From what I hear, I think most people are happy with the EBA we have. Let's face it, we are always going to want more rest, more money, more days off etc.

My opinion, the longer this EBA takes, the better. I think we have it pretty good at the moment...

Crewbus do we work for the same Virgin Blue????
Do you really enjoy the fact that you can do a 3 day trip with 4 sectors everyday and minimum rest both oevernights.
How about getting a phone call on your day off to work- and not having the option to say "no"!
One of my favourites is doing 6 days on and then 1 day off, only to back up and do another 6 days on!
I could go on and on and on...
Really take a good look at our current EBA, we really don't have any protection for health and lifestyle. Everything can be changed due to "unforseen circumstances". Everything. (I worked with a crew member last week who had just had 12 hours rest at home!)
A lot of crew may be say that the current EBA is 'better the devil you know', but I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks that the current EBA is a good EBA.

Hi smile

Yes I do work for the same Virgin Blue, I guess the difference between 'my' Virgin Blue and 'your' Virgin Blue is that I take the good with the bad. Compared with other airlines, I think we have it pretty good for the money we make.

I dont think I am in the minority, but still that is my opinion.

What I like about our EBA is the chance to earn money on available days. From what I hear, and I admit, this is only rumour, but with the new EBA, we will not have the chance to earn the extra money as available days will be scrapped.

Yes, we are going to get paid overtime if we go over the monthly hours, but how often do you think this will happen? With all the extra training groups going through, plus the reduced crew on the 800, I would say that the company have planned that there will be no need to pay anyone overtime, because of all of the extra crew. Just a thought??

As for being drafted, I rarely hear of anyone being drafted, this could be due to many crew, including myself, not answering private numbers.

I guess I like this EBA because this is what I agreed to when I joined the company. I knew exactly what I was in for when I signed across the dotted line.

I hate AVL days.

HI crewbus,

I too agree that the money isn't bad for what we do- but the conditions are very bad!!!

Up here is BNE we have a few crew maxing out their monthly hours. Only last week I almost offloaded a crew member who was within an hour of maxing out for the month- the rest of her roster was set in stone due to training requirements, so if there had been a delay it would have been trouble.

The reduced crew on the 800's only affects cabin crew numbers- not supervisors. Did you know that we have just had the first recruitment drive for CS's in BNE in nearly 3 years. No wonder my doctor diagnosed me with fatigue when I was unwell last year.

As for being drafted... I don't want to get started on that one!!:mad: :ugh:


At the moment it looks like life is a little different in MEL than it is in BNE- we are getting hammered.


Anyway the fact is that the current EBA will be taken over by a new EBA some time in the next year. (or three) When you receive the first draft to vote on take the time to really read it. Apply every scenario to it that you can possibly think of, the good, the bad and the very ugly. If a scenario fits, it can (and probably will) happen.


good luck

love SMILE

Hi Smile!

Do you really think our conditions are that bad??

What are Jetstar or MAM casuals conditions like I wonder? 'Better' than ours? Doubt it.

Like I have said previously, we are always going to want more. Gone are the days of long overnight stops. Doesnt work out cost effective. And lets face it, the company is here to make money, and I think they will want more and more as time goes on, hence making our conditions not as favourable as what (I think) they are now.

Im happy to do my 4 sector days with min rest. Gets me home quicker, but with the overnight in my pocket:) Don't fancy 5 sector days though ;)

Anyway, we will wait and see what happens when the new EBA comes out.

Happy flying :ok:

Crewbus personally I detest min rest overnights - defeats the purpose of flying. I don't buy into the "cost effectiveness" arguement in places like bne/syd/mel/adl/ool - even hba/per - as there is plenty of flights in and out of those places a day to create the pairings around. Crew can still do 8 - 9 hour duties each day with reasonable rest each night - reasonable is 15 + hours. I have nothing against working the hours our agreement states we can - but when you have 9 hour days 4 days in a row with rest each night being 13 hours or less, it just does not work for anyone, and its increasingly difficult to motivate crew to work hard when they turn up for duties like that week in week out.

I believe that there is a happy medium to be had - one that keeps the beancounters happy, whilst keeping crew happy at the same time. Right now the $$$ vs Employee Happiness pendulum is swinging firmly towards the $$ side of things.

Hi Sinala1:ok:

I have never worked in a crewing department of an airline, so I will never fully understand the 'reasons' for making the rosters the way they do. Giving someone, for example, a 24 hour layover in Sydney, would not be cost effective, when they can give you a 12 hour layover, and get another 9 hours out of you, while still achieving your 10 days off per month. Does that make sense, or am I completely off track?

At the end of the day, we know the company is looking at ways of cutting costs, at our expense. But look at Qantas, Jetstar, and I assume many international airlines overseas. I am not saying I agree with it, I guess I have accepted it.

At the end of the day, I can't imagine doing anything else, I love flying, so things would have to deteriorate considerably before I would even think of leaving. That is why I am happy with the EBA we are on now, because I know the company can, and will, make things more unpleasant for us. Then we will really have reason to whinge.

Happy flying :)

Beside myself
 

I have read through this thread and I am literally beside myself. The whinging and complaining that is going on here is just out of this world. I am a Cabin Crew member with DJ and I have also worked in other departments with in the company and have to say that Cabin Crew are looked after better than any other department I have worked in. Even outside of the company. My partner works in an industry where he is over-worked and underpaid and when he looked at my EBA couldn't believe how well we are looked after when he compared it to his EBA.

The only thing I can say about the EBA is just wait till it comes out, read it, and make up your own mind. Galley FM is rife within Cabin Crew and so many people are gossiping about this that and the other. Anyone ever heard of the game Chinese Whispers? Take what you hear and divide it by 20 and perhaps you might be closer to the truth.

I am all for creating a happy and fun working environment, but when I have to hear all this crap about the EBA on every-friggen-flight, I really wanna lock myself in the lav. There hasn't been a single flight that I have been on lately where someone hasn't brought up the issue. And quite frankly I am sick of hearing about it.

If you are that concerned about the conditions and it is that taxing on your life, then find a new job. It is as simple as that. I don't want to hear about it anymore, and I don't think the guests in the last few rows near the rear galleys want to either.

JQ don't overnight their staff at all, so already they don't get any sort of overnight allowance. I have a friend who used to work for them. In fact he was with them when they were Impulse, and when QF took over and made them into JQ it all went downhill from there. So just in that I think that us DJ Cabin Crew members are far better off.

To change tact here a little, earlier on in the thread some person rattled off the CAO about when to wear seat belts. It is correct that CAO 20.6.3 section 3 states that crew and passengers need to occupy a seat during turbulent conditions. So what severity of turbulence??? If there is a little bit of turbulence e.g. slight turbulence (which happens on most flights) we return to our seats everytime??? When will a service be done?? We will be constantly be pushing our carts backwards and forwards down the aisle....

The Pilots I have flown with have been pretty good at keeping us up to date on the turbulence issue when they have been informed by aircraft ahead or when they know. Turbulence is unpredictable. All you can do is do your best to ensure that you protect the safety of the guests. Isn't that why we are there.

Well thats it from me. I am very eager to see the replies I get from this post. More whinging and groaning I am predicting.

Night.

Hi ccguy

Many of us like this forum, so we can discuss things that happen on a daily basis in our workplace, and see how other crew feel about changes within the company and the industry.

Not sure how long you have been flying for, but part of cabin crew conversation is galley fm. It doesnt just happen at DJ, it happens in every airline around the world. We work with people who we don't know really know that well, and one common thing we can talk about is our job. With the new EBA approaching it is a thing that will be relevant to all of us.

I agree that the constant moaning about current conditions wears you down more than the actual work and 4 sector days itself, but that is when you have you bring in your 'upbeat' personality to maybe change the subject, and try and lighten the mood.

About this thread. Quite frankly, if you have read it once and it seems to upset you, don't open it again. You don't need to be Einstein to solve that one :ok:

See you up in the air :)

Hey guys,

I too am cc for DJ and the EBA has been discussed on most flights of late.. however this is because everyone is concerned and has a right to voice there concerns to other cc. When and where else are we able to discuss these matters (surely not with your mates outside of work who have no idea how our company EBA works etc).

I am definitely concerned about the rumours about the EBA that are going around and hope some of them are not true.
1- our available days are now going to be re named "grey days". yes you are still on call and yes it is still at home but no you will not be paid anything for them. Gee that's real staff incentive isn't it.
2- our overnights are going to be dramatically reduced, due to the Sydney base being opened up and our crew complement reduced to 4. Therefore our pay is going to be cut once again.
3- Our 4 sector days may turn into a norm of 5 sectors with a lower rest period.


Please correct me if I am wrong about any of the things I have mentioned (yes I understand no one knows what is in the new EBA until we all read it) but almost everyone has heard the same things, which I'm praying will not pop up in the EBA and if they do, that most people will vote no to them.

So what incentive remains for cc? We won't be able to make anymore money (which most people count on from the available days and overnights - kiss those Sydney overnights goodbye).

Couldn't have put it better myself :ok:

Like your work keeponsmiling!

The option you have is to Not Listen :) its your choice.

The discussion on this forum regarding the EBA is about everyone here trying to get a better understanding of the information presented to us at the forums, the information recieved from the FAAA and our Delegates, and the information recieved from different levels of Management over the course of time. People are entitled to opinions - its a part of life - as you are yours. A lot of us here have been in the CC department for a long time and seen major changes take place during that time. Its about protecting what conditions we do have, or bargaining things we are happy to give up to achieve something we did not have before.

Its not about whinging, moaning, saying how much we hate our jobs etc. I have said time and again how much I love my job (and I truly truly mean it), and how I want to be able to continue to say that. If we just sat back and did not give any input or have any discussion whatsoever, then things would never get changed. As far as JQ, QF, QQ, ZL etc go - we are *not* other airlines, and its quite defeatest to say "well xxx airline does not even do xxx activity so we should be grateful". We are a different operation to any airline in this country, so direct comparisons cant really be made.

Keep the discussion coming folks, I have copies of some of the trips that were proposed back in August last year when those folders came out - including one 7 day gem that had 4 red eyes in a row (BNE-DRW-BNE) with 13 hours rest each DAY (not night - its all DAY rest).

For those who don't like the comments being put forth here, I suggest you don't read it :ok:

4 red eyes in a row (BNE-DRW-BNE) with 13 hours rest each DAY (not night - its all DAY rest) - gee that's really safe isn't it!!!! So we should all just sit back and work these ridiculous sectors until someoone blows a slide and injures (god forbid kills) someone on the tarmac.

I just don't understand why anything needs to be changed!! If it already works (which i believe it does), why fix it!!

I dont want to throw a spanner in the works, but I dont mind doing red eyes. Of course only if I get my overnight allowance thrown in. I would be happy to do 4 red eyes in a row, because I can sleep anywhere/anytime! And I like the idea of coming home everyday, but getting paid like you are on a trip.

I guess I would be the only CC operating though if this came in!

I don't mind redeyes myself but not 4 in a row on min rest, with 1 day off and then get hit with a 4 day trip (5 sectors at that) with a 4 crew complement on an 800 etc etc etc.

Oh no, that 5 sector day 4 day trip thing after the red eyes isnt part of the deal! Red eyes only thank you!

I would be happy to do 10 red eyes per month. That equals 20 work days, with my 10 days off. Plus 10 overnight allowances :ok:

Now thats a roster!

ok well if the 4 day trip (5 sector days) isn't part of it :) then I'm up for the red eyes too hahaha.

Hi all,

does anybody know when they might be hiring in MEL again?

Thanks

bunchucker - VB are always hiring so just apply online and hopefully they will pull your name out of the hat to go to an interview.

Goodluck :ok:

Thanks for that, have applied online and even been " blue starred " by someone in management, so guess I'll just wait :)

It's all heating up......
 

Been a while since I have posted on here guys - just been sitting back taking it all in.....

I really hope that everyone reads this EBA VERY CAREFULLY......we don't want a repeat of last time - somehow an EBA that people weren't happy with was pushed through.

I agree with the last few posts - ccguy - please don't compare us to JQ or others - we DON'T want to go down that road - and certainly don't want their conditions - that's why we are at Virgin Blue! Let's KEEP TALKING about this - the more we do, the more that everyone will be aware of what's going on (even if a little embellished) - at least it gets people thinking about it!

I can't believe that management are saying that if we vote NO, we will have no other option - isn't the whole idea of NEGOTIATION, NEGOTIATING the agreement when we SEE IT (God knows when that will be....??) I have a friend who is an Ad Hoc Instructor - they don't know what their conditions will be in this new EBA - rumour is worse off in some scenarios......

To be honest, if things don't stack up (eg. no more avail days etc) I also would rather stick with what we have now.....I certainly don't want an overall pay cut!

Maybe we should follow the lead of our pilot comrades......

I really enjoy the job and don't want to lose out - I left a well paid profession to fly - I want to still keep flying and enjoy it!

Study the new EBA well guys and spread the word for all the crew to do the same....interesting times ahead!

Oz ;)