Eastern Australia Airlines
 

How does everyone feel about the proposed EBA?

After reading it through all i can say is Huh?:confused: A little more english and less blah blah would have been nice.

I had a quick squiz through the draft...

Higher base rate is a good thing. I'm skeptical about the less restrictive work rules... but then hey, it's better than an AWA... isn't it? :ooh:

My friend is spitting chips about it though. He reckons it's' a crap deal and is really reluctant to vote "yes".

What do U think EAAFA and Mouse78?

The proposed EBA is exactly what I expected: a carbon copy of the existing Sunstate EBA.

The higher base salary is the only improvement, but considering all the losses (ie duty hour limitations, reduced rest periods, etc), it is not enough of an increase.

I don't know how the DTA rate was decided. It is very low.

Also, it isn't reasonable to take away roster requests considering we don't have a bidding system.

I'm currently on active hold for Eastern. :)

A friend that I met at the interview and have kept in touch with was saying that she thought it was dreadful! The only good thing in the whole EBA was a little increase in base wage. However she said they would lose in allowances if the DTA were to be brought in and would virtually be flogged to death. She said that most people felt the same way.

When does it have to be voted on?

NG must be kidding herself thinking that we are going to accept Sunstate conditions.

Everything that we currently have in our EBA that's benificial to us has been taken away. If we are lucky, a reduced alternative has been offered in place.

What's the deal with the FAAA? They knew to hold on to the 7 hour rule and DIL's. Where's the negotiation with management to keep them? I guess it must be hard when the Union Rep and CC Mgr are buddies :mad: .

They took two important things away from us, and don't even give us anything back except some worthless DTA.

Does EEA still offer 22,000 base for a first year FA?

No, from ground school to check to line its around $23,000 p/a. However, if your from another base and your overnighting in Sydney, you get the overnight allowances as well. Once your checked to line, that takes about 4 weeks from your first day at ground school, your salary goes up to around $30,000 + allowances.

When I went for an interview in September at the panel I was given a sheet of paper (which I have kept) stating that a first year FA will recieve a base of 22,000.

Perhaps this is not the case anymore though..

The base of 22000 is for the initial training period after training finishes and you're checked to line it goes up to 29000 +. I have the same sheet of paper and it's written on there.

'As I mentioned earlier....' the training rate of pay is around $23,000.

Have a look at the EASTERN AUSTRALIA AIRLINES PTY LIMITED FLIGHT ATTENDANTS ENTERPRISE AGREEMENT 2002 on www.wagenet.gov.au
Training until 'checked to line' is $22,874.

Training - applies until "checked to line"
Increment 1 - applies from when the trainee is "checked to line"
Increment 2 - after 6 months combined service as a trainee & at increment 1
Increment 3 - after 12 months service at increment 2
Increment 4 - after 12 months service at increment 3
Increment 5 - after 12 months service at increment 4
Increment 6 - after 12 months service at increment 5

Training - $22,874
Increment 1 - $29,812
Increment 2 - $30,499
Increment 3 - $31,221
Increment 4 - $31,943
Increment 5 - $32,663
Increment 6 - $33,414

RE: Proposed EBA
 

I'm actually working for Sunstate under these work conditions.

We don't get "flogged" to death in Sunnies and we're certainly not doing 11 hrs , min rest, 11 hrs min rest etc. I don't think Management would want us doing that as there'd be a mutiny and lots of sickies! :eek:

I reckon you guys at Eastern should check out our rosters because it's not all as bad as you think. I still get time after my overnight to go and have my hair done or my legs waxed! I still get roster requests which allow me to duck over to see my boyfriend in Cairns on my three days that I've requested off.

This Brisbane girl still has her lifestyle - and a higher base Salary than the Eastern so make sure you're comparing with your friends up here in Sunnies - trust me, I've been here 2 years and it's OK. :) The other good thing about a higher base salary is that you get moe during A/L when you're not getting allowances. And then there's more super (for those who need to worry about that sort of stuff).

Vote No No No.
 

Is the new EBA supposed to be funny??? :} cos im not laughing and not many of the people i have spoken to are either.

In fact i feel insulted that management think that we are that stupid that we will vote yes.

The FAAA is as week as :mad: to. What were they doing during negotiations? Hiding under the table ......thats what.:D

I worked out my recent pay on the new EBA and i would have got $60-70 less in the fortnight.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOUR OF A PAY CUT SAY I !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been an FAAA wake up call..........:=

Thanks for the contribution, Sally. I'm glad that Sunnies read this thread because it looks like sooner or later we'll all be one airline.
Don't get complacent though. If the EBA allows the company to push you harder, you can bet on it that it's only a matter of time until your rosters start to resemble ours at Eastern. That is 10+ hour days with minimum breaks followed by minimum rest.
Simple maths will tell you that we are far better off with the meal allowances we now have than the proposed DTA. A slightly higher base salary doesn't make much difference once the tax man has taken his cut.

I think when this proposed EBA gets voted down, and if we do take action, the FAAA needs to know exactly what we want to see in the new agreed EBA. Seriously, where did the FAAA get off allowing management to offer such bull$hit. We need to clearly stipulate what we want to see in our EBA. B.I needs to stand down aswell and someone with balls should be in place.

No More F.a.a.a
 

Lets get rid of the F.A.A.A and go to the T.W.U (transport workers union). A union that wont roll over and is not confused about who it needs to support.

Once this EBA is voted down we can legally do this.

SPREAD THE WORD. Vote NO to the EBA....vote NO to the F.A.A.A.......vote YES to a change to the T.W.U.

i can't get my head around our reps being so out of touch with what we want that they didn't make this clear during negotiations. they claim that "we" said we wanted sunnies EBA. i heard people saying they want a similar BASE PAY not their EBA: NOT THE SAME THING!

NO to giving up the 7 hour rule!

NO to giving up meal allowances for a pathetic $3.83 DTA!

everyone i know who has added up how much they would be getting a fortnight with dta instead of meal allowances has figured out they'd be earning less. AND THATS INCLUDING THE HIGHER BASE PAY! and as EAAFA said, what about taxes???

5% PAY RISE MY a**e! a message to management: we aren't einsteins but we know how to use calculators!

I hope everyone is doing what I did. I added up how much I would get in a year under the proposed eba. It comes to only about $3000 more. The things they want us to give up are worth much more than $3000.

I noticed that a number of crew have changed their progression preferences to include Perth since the EBA package was sent out. Interesting...

Did anyone attend the info sessions on the EBA held recently?

Yeh I went to the meeting. After speaking to both Sydney and Melbourne crew, everyones pissed off with Management and Managements friend from the FAAA for taking over 12months worth of negotiations when all they did was shove Sunstates f:mad:d up EBA through the photocopier and white out Sunstate and wrote Eastern.

Also they are saying in the meetings held in Sydney that Melbourne are voting yes and in Melbourne that Sydney are voting yes. That's also a heap of s:mad:t.

Everyones voting no.

Anyways I loved the Christmas card idea!:ok:

I'm also in favour of f:mad:king off the FAAA and bringing on the Transport Workers Union.

Yeah, those Xmas cards were quite a stir. It appears they may have caused a bit of grief for the individual concerned.

I heard JG on the phone to someone wanting to sack the FA who distributed them... apparently the weren't authorised?! :eek: And given the recent sackings of FA's, who knows!!! :eek: :eek:

Ahh well. Voting starts tomorrow...... let's see how this EBA goes down.

Hey, what happens if it gets voted down? Do we go onto Indivedual Contracts?

Hahahah - TWU?! We're not Bus Driver's!!! Seesh, whoever is proposing that needs to get their head out of their a:mad:se. THat's the most ridiculous idea ever.

They went in to Melbourne's pigeon holes today. I don't think JG has any reason for dissmissing a FA for this reason either.

You mentioned there were other sackings, what reason did those FA's get fired for?

Didn't two get punted for drugs?

Or is that rumur??????? Apparently the baggage handlers were talking about it.

Can anyone prove who distributed the "Christmas cards"? You can't sack someone on mere suspicion.

I heard that the two sackings were for turning up for duty drunk after a big night out at an overnight.

Hey CrashAxe, seems its your head that needs pulling out. T.W.U stands for Transport Workers Union. Last time i checked an aircraft was a form of transport.

If you are happy with our current union feel free to vote yes.

But all the FA's that are switched on will vote no and then look for another union.....

Ask yourself why no other FA group in this country are represented by the TWU.

How many other airline groups have their CC Mrg, FAAA Union Rep and FA union rep asslicking eachother?

Putting aside the obvious connotations of this quote, I don't think it's appropriate for you to start personally attacking your union rep.

Now...I don't know your union rep, nor do I pretend to be familiar with the issues that EA crews face. However...attacking one of your fellow crew, who does the delegate role in their own time, for no extra pay (and certainly no extra kudos) really isn't top form.

Do you have to like the new EBA? No.
Do you have to like what's happening in general within the QF Group? No.

How you vote, and what issues are of relevance to you, are entirely those of Eastern Crew. What you shouldn't be doing is turning on each other.

I've no doubt that your rep has tried to achieve the best outcome under difficult and arduous circumstances - especially with an EBA. Unless you're familiar with what it's like to negotiate with QF Group management during these difficult times, please think twice before attacking your colleagues. It doesn't help anyone.

Crew are saying that they are having feelings that they are being blackmailed and pushed towards a "yes" vote via management.

We are told that we can be put on the award wage if this Eba is voted down. I have already heard many crew say that they would resign if this were to happen. My question is, would EAA be able to cope with more than a handful of crew leaving at once? That is what we all should take into consideration before making our decision. Would EAA management shoot themselves in the foot by doing this?

Considering the ammount of blackmailing that seems to be going on, crew are still turning there nose up at the Eba that has been offered. I can't say I blame them either. What a slap in the face it has been to all of us who have worked hard for the company-especially in times where we have been under staffed and sick leave has been at high levels.

Management really should be ashamed. 3 weeks before Christmas and the already low moral of the crew goes to an even lower level. So low that even a dodgy diary for Christmas will not be able to help us out this year!

Years of reading but only now contributing to the EAA discussion thread!

I would like to think that our priority at the moment is the EBA, not a night out on the grog with some snog. I have been witness to many an EAA christmas party snog and personally I could not give a damn.

I give a damn about my EBA.I have listened to you all make judgement on the FAAA and our union reps, their relationships and lack of consultation with crew throughout the negotiations, you have whinged about progression and all the lucky souls who are in the position to change their preference of base, which I'm pretty sure you would all do in their positions. You have not attended information sessions on the EBA yet whinge that you are not given enough information. We put letters in pigeon holes telling people to vote NO with incorrect information on it. We continually voice our opinions having done no research at all. My god what an intelligent bunch we are.

GET REAL! have you people read a paper or watched the news lately? Have you researched the new IR laws? Don't you have friends on AWA's at jetstar? Instead of thinking only about yourself have a think about the collective group and the security an EBA gives us for the future. Pull your heads out of your ar$es research and secure your job. If not pull the plug and move on, just remember plenty of people want your job, even with the current wage!

Quote of the EBA forums " but I only want to work 120 hours a month, yet still get payed for 152"

Xavier O'nassis, your remarks are harsh, and uncalled for. It is unfair to say that we ( I am guessing you are talking about EAA FA's) have not done research in regards to the negotiations. You have no way of knowing who on this forum has or has not been to meetings to gather more information about the EBA. Many of the crew are well informed about what is about to take place, so to say "pull the plug and move on" is not a fair statement. Some of us like our jobs, but when we are loosing things that we deserve ( as hard working employee's) enough is enough!

Xavier, unfortunately you are right about certain issues however what bothers me is that the tone of your argument echoes that of the FAAA. That is, we're up against a tough fight so lets just give in without one.

Most people I've spoken to feel the same disappointment as I do about the way the FAAA has handled this. We pay them a lot of money every year and when we really need them it seems as if they forget whom they represent.

X O, your rambling "contribution" to this discussion is just a regurgitation of the letter we got from dh.

1 it is a fact that our union reps have not kept us in the loop. how often did we get updates during the long negotiations? i asked a number of times and didn't get any info

2 if the company and the union are able to recommend how we should vote then a group of employees should have the right to make a recommendation too

3 if the company wants to pay us for the actual hours we work then they should offer a decent hourly rate

4 i did go to the meetings and all i got from the union was scaremongering on the company's behalf. what is the point of a meeting where the person who tells you to vote YES because she doesn't know what will happen if we vote NO

5 the union claims that we asked for sunnies eba: who, when, how many? i didn't and don't know anyone who did

i could go on about the other points you made but i can't be bothered. i'm sick of people like you thinking you're smarter than the rest of us when in fact you vote based on fear. you should vote based on what you think of the eba on offer.

AND NOW A NOTE ABOUT THE UNION NIO: what do people think are the odds of her jumping ship any time soon and getting a job with the qf group? should we start a tipping competition? she's delivered everything they wanted on a silver platter so i can see her becoming a turncoat like her mate at qflink

I have an alternative to the TWU idea. We should demand DM's resignation.
She has no business representing us. Not because of her relationship with the CC manager but because she is incompetent.

What kind of idiot schedules Q & A meetings only to tell us "you should vote yes because I don't know what will happen if you vote no". Has she heard of doing research BEFORE a meeting? Or how about telling us to vote Labour in the next election? If Labour wins the next election we will NEVER get back what we will lose if we vote yes to the Sunstate EBA.

If QF want us on the same EBA they should do what they did with Southern. Get Sunstate to take over Eastern and transfer all CC to QF short haul (except for all the morons who voted YES on the EBA):D

I am sorry but you lot need to grow up and fast.

You are a bunch of wimps attacking a highly respected, union official because you didnt get what you wanted and she cant give you an indication of what will happen if you vote no. How the hell is she suppose to know is beyond me.

EAA crew want everything and always feel so hard done by I know I use to be one. This current discussion happens everytime an EBA comes up and its always the FAAA fault.

You want more $$ but no loss of conditions, what planet are you living on.

Act like mature adults instead of a bunch of pre-school kids and the company may take notice of you.

Galleyhag, you are quick to judge all your ex collegues. Many things at EAA have changed in the short time that you have progressed over. You may wish to re think what you just posted.

Your ex collegues should be able to inform you just how different it is now.

To all the people who post personal attacks on others, please think twice before clicking on the "submit reply" button as this discussion is too important to be closed off by the moderators.

GalleyHag, it's insulting enough for you to interfere in a discussion which has nothing to do with you without also insulting us verbally. I'm sure you weren't present at the meetings so you cannot possibly know how this "highly respected union official" conducted herself.

You also wrote:

"You want more $$ but no loss of conditions, what planet are you living on."

The fact is that the union is recommending we vote yes to an EBA which involves giving up 90% of conditions and allowances which are favourable to cabin crew in exchange for a minimal increase in annual pay. I think that is worth complaining about.

Where to now
 

Well well well, the EBA has been voted down, yes i agree what a surprise particularly given the big push by the MSN crew to vote no ! i don't think AF can take all the credit though, there are some of us that don't take any notice of him at any time and also didn't like the deal.

I do hope AF has got a way forward from here for all those that do take him seriously. With the Mac bank crew taking over and the papers saying that no one knows how the QF group will be run now, i for one don't feel secure at all with the no vote.

Does he know if eaa crew join the TWU that the company will deal with them ? Does he know if the TWU wants a small group of regional crew to look after. Didn't the pilots have a similar situation and the company basically told them to go jump ? :ugh: Can someone who has been invited to the MSN thing ask AF to check if its mandatory, seeing he is the one with the :mad: and into research.

I understand that AF does know now that DH's letter and the union meeting were within the limits of so called coercion and duress, i can only imagine that the union did too and thats why there was nothing jumping up and down from FAAA on the letter from our esteemed leader. Apparently it is ok to recommend a vote (DH's letter) and for the union to tell us that they don't know what will happen with a no vote. Actually i'm pretty sure thats happened every EBA.

The QF forum has some really interesting info on what is being touted around about all our futures, the main thing that i am afraid of is that with the new owners coming in, they will know that we were offered a new agreement and said resoundingly that we didn't want it (and ss apparently did). Does anyone else think that that puts us in a precarious position, or is it just me being paranoid ???? I think not.

Well kiddies now is our chance to show that company what we are all about, the union newsletter said there would be meetings in the new year, i for one will be very interested in what AF has in store for us there, or if he has managed to get the TWU to take us on and then get the company to deal with them. Guess he's going to be a busy boy this Xmas.


Don't take this post as anything other than what it was meant for, to get us all thinking about what the hell we are going to do now and how we could now be held very much accountable for our actions!! :ok:

Me thinks its about to hit the fan big time !!!:=