Handbaggage !!
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: UK
Handbaggage !!
Hope this gets to be an interesting thread !!
Basically wondered if all cabin crew, and those on flight supervisor training in particular get specialist training on how to be really, really bloody minded when it comes to dealing with hand baggage onboard !!
When signing up the loadsheet at closeout, my ears are constantly battered about excessive handbaggage - but where are all the bags that didn't fit ? Oh, they actually 'made' enough room or them !!! How on earth can you 'make' enough room !! So, in other words you are telling me that we, the ground staff had excellent judgement and managed to guestimate exactly what room was available and allowed on the right amount of bags!!
Any baggage let on overweight I know is a hazard, and I can live with that and happily take it off and tag it for the hold as it is a safety issue - but please, moaning when it all fits on ok is extremely irritating. We are short staffed at the gate most of the time, and a little more patience would be lovely - most of you haven't worked the gates from our point of view.
One last point, have you realised by now that any bags left at the end of the jetty as the doors are closed do not actualy make the flight ? We cannot run round like headless chickens at minus 1 and 2 minutes running down bags to the hold ! They actually get sent straight to the baggage hall for 'rush' tagging on the next available ! Please, if any bags are taken at the door - LET US KNOW ASAP !!!!
Thank you all kind cabin crew (and flight sups too !!!xx)
Basically wondered if all cabin crew, and those on flight supervisor training in particular get specialist training on how to be really, really bloody minded when it comes to dealing with hand baggage onboard !!
When signing up the loadsheet at closeout, my ears are constantly battered about excessive handbaggage - but where are all the bags that didn't fit ? Oh, they actually 'made' enough room or them !!! How on earth can you 'make' enough room !! So, in other words you are telling me that we, the ground staff had excellent judgement and managed to guestimate exactly what room was available and allowed on the right amount of bags!!
Any baggage let on overweight I know is a hazard, and I can live with that and happily take it off and tag it for the hold as it is a safety issue - but please, moaning when it all fits on ok is extremely irritating. We are short staffed at the gate most of the time, and a little more patience would be lovely - most of you haven't worked the gates from our point of view.
One last point, have you realised by now that any bags left at the end of the jetty as the doors are closed do not actualy make the flight ? We cannot run round like headless chickens at minus 1 and 2 minutes running down bags to the hold ! They actually get sent straight to the baggage hall for 'rush' tagging on the next available ! Please, if any bags are taken at the door - LET US KNOW ASAP !!!!
Thank you all kind cabin crew (and flight sups too !!!xx)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
From: Australia
I agree with Biscuit Chucker. I enforce hand luggage limits at boarding but if the bag doesn't fit into the unit because of wheels are it is *slightly* over packed then I let it through after drawing the pax's attention to the fact. However I am very strict about weight. I had a bag fall onto this lap infant once and it wasn't pretty! Also I a pax has an international size wheel aboard and a *very* small item (like a thin laptop bag) I will usually let it slide.
One thing I will never do is agrue with pax. The rules are there for a reaosn and I deny boarding until they part with their bag. I have never seen a FA win an agruement with pax about hand luggage. Simple - just don't argue!
In the past year at Impulse we have seen a kitten and some ducklings onboard! Crazy but true! Qantas has to stop advertising on shop-a-dockets! What do you think, Biscuit?
One thing I will never do is agrue with pax. The rules are there for a reaosn and I deny boarding until they part with their bag. I have never seen a FA win an agruement with pax about hand luggage. Simple - just don't argue!
In the past year at Impulse we have seen a kitten and some ducklings onboard! Crazy but true! Qantas has to stop advertising on shop-a-dockets! What do you think, Biscuit?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 1
From: Europe
Dispatcher,
the policy we use in my airline is to let in as many luggage come, unless they are too heavy to be lifted to the overhead bins or too big to fit. When there is no more room available, we start sending them to the hold. Usually no more than 2-3 per flight, and if it's full. But you'll admit it is not fair to let in people with more than the allowed weight/pieces and then deny the last to board who maybe just has one piece of the regular weight.
Would be much better to screen before the obvious irregularities like people with 3 pieces or enormous luggage (especially when the flight is full, as it often is the case).
When we send something to the hold we don't need to let ground staff know, because they usually are there and see what happens. And we usually don't complain to them, just let them know what happened if the situation was very bad. As I said, it's no problem to us: baggage get on board until they fit. After, they go to the hold. End of problem. Pax usually don't complain because 1) they can see there is no more room available 2) they can see we do all that is possible to help them.
the policy we use in my airline is to let in as many luggage come, unless they are too heavy to be lifted to the overhead bins or too big to fit. When there is no more room available, we start sending them to the hold. Usually no more than 2-3 per flight, and if it's full. But you'll admit it is not fair to let in people with more than the allowed weight/pieces and then deny the last to board who maybe just has one piece of the regular weight.
Would be much better to screen before the obvious irregularities like people with 3 pieces or enormous luggage (especially when the flight is full, as it often is the case).
When we send something to the hold we don't need to let ground staff know, because they usually are there and see what happens. And we usually don't complain to them, just let them know what happened if the situation was very bad. As I said, it's no problem to us: baggage get on board until they fit. After, they go to the hold. End of problem. Pax usually don't complain because 1) they can see there is no more room available 2) they can see we do all that is possible to help them.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: DUNGEON
HANDBAGGAGE CONTROLS
If as your title suggests you are indeed a dispatcher, then surely you are in overall control of the flight and indeed the boarding agents ; therefore you should ensure that the hand luggage let through the gate adheres' to that particlular airlines regulations
Boarding agents by nature of their job may miss the odd bag; equally they may not be aware of the restrictions applicable to the a-c they re boarding - maybe a 'briefing' before boarding would help
Part of the problem I have found is on turboprop a-c with a light load - ground crew seem to think it ok to allow trolley bags etc. onto a-c saying 'oh, its not full today you should be ok'
This is fine until next time the same pax says 'but last time it was' ok', neglecting to mention that the a-c was ½ full - this only inflames the situation on board
Boarding agents by nature of their job may miss the odd bag; equally they may not be aware of the restrictions applicable to the a-c they re boarding - maybe a 'briefing' before boarding would help
Part of the problem I have found is on turboprop a-c with a light load - ground crew seem to think it ok to allow trolley bags etc. onto a-c saying 'oh, its not full today you should be ok'
This is fine until next time the same pax says 'but last time it was' ok', neglecting to mention that the a-c was ½ full - this only inflames the situation on board
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
Aarrgghh!!! Dont mention hand baggage. At my station is the nightmare of all us groundstaff. We're always told that 'the crew let them take it on their last flight so why are you taking off me for this flight?' Not that we believe every word they tell us.
I do have a query though. When the crew from a particular US carrier pass through the terminal, those old girls are loaded up with bags and more bags. Shouldnt they be setting an example as to what can/cannot be taken in the cabin?
In my opinion, its going to be an ongoing problem untill they design an aircraft with cavernous overheads, which aint happening soon. However for my airline, i believe we are one of the most stringent network wide.
I do have a query though. When the crew from a particular US carrier pass through the terminal, those old girls are loaded up with bags and more bags. Shouldnt they be setting an example as to what can/cannot be taken in the cabin?
In my opinion, its going to be an ongoing problem untill they design an aircraft with cavernous overheads, which aint happening soon. However for my airline, i believe we are one of the most stringent network wide.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,585
Likes: 0
From: UK
Well, I have worked on reservations, ticket desk, check-in and as a gate agent prior to becoming cabin crew, so I have a (basic) understanding of the processes involved.
Dispatcher - your argument seems a little circular to me - If the handbaggage problem doesn't exist, then that is due to the ground staff exercising good judgement. If there is a handbaggage problem but the cabin crew resolve it, then that too is down to the ground staff exercising good judgement. If there is a hand baggage problem and the cabin crew can't resolve it then they are damned for leaving handbaggage on the jetway and adding to ground staff workload! I am unclear as to how cabin crew are supposed to "win" in this situation.
Cabin crew can't tell for sure that the cabin will run out of space until it happens. In other words, you don't discover that bags will have to be left on the jetway until the very last minute, when the space runs out. Up until then, we have been attempting to find hatrack space and/or persuading the customer to part with their bags ("they let me have it last time..." etc. etc.). On large aircraft, the last opportunity for hold stowing bags is not up to cabin doors closed, but in fact well before - when the last hi-loader is pulled away and the holds are closed. Our customers know this as well as we do, and this makes them even less willing to part with their baggage.
Noting your comments about short staff and "headless chickens" I sympathise, but would respectfully pont out that cabin crew tend to be in the same position these days. Workload during the last few minutes before doors close can be high for us too. Captains tend to become stressy when you tell them that departure may be delayed due to excessive hand baggage (not surprisingly) - remember that you don't tell them this until the last moment because that is when the problem becomes visible.
Cabin crew will tend to moan at the dispatcher only because he/she is the ground handling company representative that is there at the time. If the gate agents were to wander down the jetway and ask for feedback, I would be delighted to provide it to them directly, rather than via the dispatcher. They don't do that, because they are already on their way to the next gate or back to the office.
The fact remains that the gate agents are responsible for controlling the volume of handbaggage permitted on the aircraft. They can properly see what the passenger is carrying (cabin crew can't except at the immediate entry doors because of the seats) and can remove it in good time for it to be hold stowed. The airline contracts and pays for ground staff to control passenger baggage and hold stow those items that require it. A failure to do so is a (technical) contract breach. Excess handbaggage is often directly related to excess baggage payments on the checked bags, and therefore a failure to monitor and hold stow, and to apply the appropriate excess baggage charges is also a denial of revenue to the airline involved.
Certain airfields are better or worse than others - most cabin crew could list destinations where they know they will have a problem. This is usually due to cultural factors, laziness or lack of relevant skills by the ground staff. It's not just third world countries either - try Italy on a busy day, or Americans with suit bags for proof of this.
IMHO, the best solution is cross-training: If cabin crew were to work the gates occasionally they might have a better understanding of the problems involved - vice versa the gate agents. Everyone is an expert on everybody else's job, until they have to do it! This is known as the "People Express" solution, and it develops workers as teams rather than as teams in conflict with each other. This kind of training could take place during quieter, shoulder flying seasons if the will existed: Sadly, it doesn't. That's why I brew a pot of tea when I can for the baggage loaders and pushback crew (the few times when I can) - because I've done those jobs too for a short time, and know how very cold, wet and miserable they can be, and how any warmth or concern is welcome.
Dispatcher - your argument seems a little circular to me - If the handbaggage problem doesn't exist, then that is due to the ground staff exercising good judgement. If there is a handbaggage problem but the cabin crew resolve it, then that too is down to the ground staff exercising good judgement. If there is a hand baggage problem and the cabin crew can't resolve it then they are damned for leaving handbaggage on the jetway and adding to ground staff workload! I am unclear as to how cabin crew are supposed to "win" in this situation.
Cabin crew can't tell for sure that the cabin will run out of space until it happens. In other words, you don't discover that bags will have to be left on the jetway until the very last minute, when the space runs out. Up until then, we have been attempting to find hatrack space and/or persuading the customer to part with their bags ("they let me have it last time..." etc. etc.). On large aircraft, the last opportunity for hold stowing bags is not up to cabin doors closed, but in fact well before - when the last hi-loader is pulled away and the holds are closed. Our customers know this as well as we do, and this makes them even less willing to part with their baggage.
Noting your comments about short staff and "headless chickens" I sympathise, but would respectfully pont out that cabin crew tend to be in the same position these days. Workload during the last few minutes before doors close can be high for us too. Captains tend to become stressy when you tell them that departure may be delayed due to excessive hand baggage (not surprisingly) - remember that you don't tell them this until the last moment because that is when the problem becomes visible.
Cabin crew will tend to moan at the dispatcher only because he/she is the ground handling company representative that is there at the time. If the gate agents were to wander down the jetway and ask for feedback, I would be delighted to provide it to them directly, rather than via the dispatcher. They don't do that, because they are already on their way to the next gate or back to the office.
The fact remains that the gate agents are responsible for controlling the volume of handbaggage permitted on the aircraft. They can properly see what the passenger is carrying (cabin crew can't except at the immediate entry doors because of the seats) and can remove it in good time for it to be hold stowed. The airline contracts and pays for ground staff to control passenger baggage and hold stow those items that require it. A failure to do so is a (technical) contract breach. Excess handbaggage is often directly related to excess baggage payments on the checked bags, and therefore a failure to monitor and hold stow, and to apply the appropriate excess baggage charges is also a denial of revenue to the airline involved.
Certain airfields are better or worse than others - most cabin crew could list destinations where they know they will have a problem. This is usually due to cultural factors, laziness or lack of relevant skills by the ground staff. It's not just third world countries either - try Italy on a busy day, or Americans with suit bags for proof of this.
IMHO, the best solution is cross-training: If cabin crew were to work the gates occasionally they might have a better understanding of the problems involved - vice versa the gate agents. Everyone is an expert on everybody else's job, until they have to do it! This is known as the "People Express" solution, and it develops workers as teams rather than as teams in conflict with each other. This kind of training could take place during quieter, shoulder flying seasons if the will existed: Sadly, it doesn't. That's why I brew a pot of tea when I can for the baggage loaders and pushback crew (the few times when I can) - because I've done those jobs too for a short time, and know how very cold, wet and miserable they can be, and how any warmth or concern is welcome.
