Can Companies Ring You On Days Off/annual Leave
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BA cannot phone you while you are on annual leave or days off - it could disturb your rest and so cause you not to be properly ready rested for the next days work.
Also more upsetting....could lose my place in the queue at the bar!!!!
Also more upsetting....could lose my place in the queue at the bar!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
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My belief is that it depends on what reason you are to be contacted at home for.
I think that if you are available to work on your day off, it can not hurt if you let crewing know the day before. Then if something comes up and your called you then have the option to accept or decline. I don't see a problem with that.
I haven't ever known any airline in Australia to constantly call staff at home and make changes to their roster or harass them to come in on their day off.
I think that if you are available to work on your day off, it can not hurt if you let crewing know the day before. Then if something comes up and your called you then have the option to accept or decline. I don't see a problem with that.
I haven't ever known any airline in Australia to constantly call staff at home and make changes to their roster or harass them to come in on their day off.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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What about trying an answerphone with a call screening facility?
I know it doesn't really solve the underlying problem and can be an inconvinence in you are in another room, but you can at least chose who to speak to.
I had a similar problem with a previous employer to the point I had my number changed and gave them only a pager number then I could chose when or when not to return the call - problem solved with in a week!
If you are really concerned about your rest, rather than just the inconvience then why not try talking to the offender(s) or what about CHIRP if all else fails.
I know it doesn't really solve the underlying problem and can be an inconvinence in you are in another room, but you can at least chose who to speak to.
I had a similar problem with a previous employer to the point I had my number changed and gave them only a pager number then I could chose when or when not to return the call - problem solved with in a week!
If you are really concerned about your rest, rather than just the inconvience then why not try talking to the offender(s) or what about CHIRP if all else fails.
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Sorry to hear that European Sky, that definitely sucks!!!
Does your crewing department not identify themselves when they're calling? For example, "Hi, this is John from XYZ Crewing may I speak to ..."??
If they do, and you are on days off or on a rest period, then I would just tell them the person they are calling for is not available. Do you have a union or other regulatory body that could pursue this for you?
Cloud Nine, Ansett used to do that quite often - ring you on days off, Annual Leave, outside of Reserve hours, whilst on rest etc. when they were desperate for crew - didn't matter if you advised you were available or not! I'm fairly sure it's a common occurence in all airlines around the world.
SG
Does your crewing department not identify themselves when they're calling? For example, "Hi, this is John from XYZ Crewing may I speak to ..."??
If they do, and you are on days off or on a rest period, then I would just tell them the person they are calling for is not available. Do you have a union or other regulatory body that could pursue this for you?
Cloud Nine, Ansett used to do that quite often - ring you on days off, Annual Leave, outside of Reserve hours, whilst on rest etc. when they were desperate for crew - didn't matter if you advised you were available or not! I'm fairly sure it's a common occurence in all airlines around the world.
SG
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Can they do it?
So European Sky, did you do it? The trip that is, we all wait with baited breath to hear the outcome of what personnel said to you... Let us know, hope it was to your advantage, it definitely sucks!!!
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Being on the other side of this debate,ie crewing,perhaps I
could make a suggestion.
We have asked all our cabin crew whether or not they would
mind being called on a day off or leave for any urgent changes,
and whether or not they would be prepared to fly on a day off if we got really stuck,as sometimes happens.For this they get a set
day off payment,variable to their rank.
Around 98 percent do not mind,and we respect the wishes of the
two percent and steer clear.I would stress there is no come back
on the two percent.
Most cabin crew actually prefer to know of changes in advance.
Say you are on a three o'clock sby,and needed for a seven
o'clock flight,most say they would much rather be told on a day
off,to plan ahead,than get the dreaded three o'clock call and
having to dash in.
I would stress that a change of a months roster is a bit much.
So european,how does this idea sound??
bi for now
could make a suggestion.
We have asked all our cabin crew whether or not they would
mind being called on a day off or leave for any urgent changes,
and whether or not they would be prepared to fly on a day off if we got really stuck,as sometimes happens.For this they get a set
day off payment,variable to their rank.
Around 98 percent do not mind,and we respect the wishes of the
two percent and steer clear.I would stress there is no come back
on the two percent.
Most cabin crew actually prefer to know of changes in advance.
Say you are on a three o'clock sby,and needed for a seven
o'clock flight,most say they would much rather be told on a day
off,to plan ahead,than get the dreaded three o'clock call and
having to dash in.
I would stress that a change of a months roster is a bit much.
So european,how does this idea sound??
bi for now
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European, I sincerely hope that for your own sake, you dont end up operating the Hadj. As we are only giving your company a couple of days/hours notice of what flights we want them to operate, you can probably guess that the crews are going to have a hard time.
Steer clear.
Mutt
Steer clear.
Mutt
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they can try, but....
This is not a solution to the ongoing problems with being called but works for me....
If you don't want to be contacted try this...
*ANNUAL LEAVE, sorry, am overseas or interstate
*DAY OFF, sorry have been drinking
*GREY/AVAILABLE DAY, sorry have been drinking
*RESERVE DAY, well sorry you just have to do that one, no way out of that.
I agree that you should not be disturbed on your rest days, but if it is necessary to reallocate you remember they are probably just going through the list until they get a taker.
In my previous airline crewing HAD to identify themselves before they asked to speak to the crew member. That gave you the option. Your union should be able to clarify that for you.
If however I am on reserve I would certainly appreciate a call the day before instead of 5 or 6am the day I am due to be conatactable. I always call them the night before, you will be suprised to find out you have been allocated a trip but they didn't want to call you till you started reserve duty.
No offence to anyone from crewing but I have learnt that in circumstances they will try anything, you just have to make them aware of your rights and the companies rights, sometimes they are simply just unaware. I have always had a good relationship with crewing, as long as everything is done to the rule. Remember, this works in your favour aswell when applying for swaps etc. I cannot stress enough how important it is to know and understand your award. Remember, your company agreed to it, it's up to you to re-enforce it. They are your working conditions agreed upon by your company and the union.
Hope this is of some help.
If you don't want to be contacted try this...
*ANNUAL LEAVE, sorry, am overseas or interstate
*DAY OFF, sorry have been drinking
*GREY/AVAILABLE DAY, sorry have been drinking
*RESERVE DAY, well sorry you just have to do that one, no way out of that.
I agree that you should not be disturbed on your rest days, but if it is necessary to reallocate you remember they are probably just going through the list until they get a taker.
In my previous airline crewing HAD to identify themselves before they asked to speak to the crew member. That gave you the option. Your union should be able to clarify that for you.
If however I am on reserve I would certainly appreciate a call the day before instead of 5 or 6am the day I am due to be conatactable. I always call them the night before, you will be suprised to find out you have been allocated a trip but they didn't want to call you till you started reserve duty.
No offence to anyone from crewing but I have learnt that in circumstances they will try anything, you just have to make them aware of your rights and the companies rights, sometimes they are simply just unaware. I have always had a good relationship with crewing, as long as everything is done to the rule. Remember, this works in your favour aswell when applying for swaps etc. I cannot stress enough how important it is to know and understand your award. Remember, your company agreed to it, it's up to you to re-enforce it. They are your working conditions agreed upon by your company and the union.
Hope this is of some help.
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EUROPEAN SKY
Your companies Crewing department can do what they want. If there is a scheduling agreement in place, then they will abide by that. If your company does not really have that, then it just comes down to your contract, which you must remember will be different to that of the crewing person. They know that crew are human, and not robots, but are more often than not working under pressure that cabin crew find hard to contemplate. The majority of the work is not created by themselves as a matter of atempting to screw up your lives. It is created by the company, or by a naughty aircraft being unwell, or him up stairs deciding that he will cause disruption to your company's route network with some nice weather! We all want stability in our working lives, so we can enjoy our social lives. However Aviation is just one of many industries that will never comply. There are to many factors going against us all. The only way you will get stability is to go and work for the finance department, or some other non operational department. I understand your predicament, but I'm sure that your personnel department will use the.... "At your interview, you were asked if you were flexible", and they'll use that one to the fullest.
You sound like you have a problem with your crewing personel, and that for one is so wrong. They are your life, as you are with them. Trust me when I say work with them, don't blame them, remember they have a manager telling them what to do. Applying untold pressure on them to ensure flights operate, with the full crew compliment. If you make their life more difficult than it already is, they will screw you. So when posting on Pprune, remember that someone from crewing department could very well have sussed you out, and taken offence at your actions, and you could find that your future could be unpleasant.
If you want to blame someone, look at your management. Then the crewing management, then the Flight Ops Manager. These are the correct to vent your fury at. Not at the poor souls sat in crewing, busting their guts trying to get flights covered.
I am not a crewing person for the record. However I know CAP371, and the "spirit and intent". CAP371 is a document that all companies FTL are founded on. They then adjust it to suit themselves (for the better of their staff). As the CAA stated, they have not broken any legal agreements, and therefore I would ignore CAP371, and use your companies FTL as the basis for your complaint.
Rant and lecture over.
AOG007
Your companies Crewing department can do what they want. If there is a scheduling agreement in place, then they will abide by that. If your company does not really have that, then it just comes down to your contract, which you must remember will be different to that of the crewing person. They know that crew are human, and not robots, but are more often than not working under pressure that cabin crew find hard to contemplate. The majority of the work is not created by themselves as a matter of atempting to screw up your lives. It is created by the company, or by a naughty aircraft being unwell, or him up stairs deciding that he will cause disruption to your company's route network with some nice weather! We all want stability in our working lives, so we can enjoy our social lives. However Aviation is just one of many industries that will never comply. There are to many factors going against us all. The only way you will get stability is to go and work for the finance department, or some other non operational department. I understand your predicament, but I'm sure that your personnel department will use the.... "At your interview, you were asked if you were flexible", and they'll use that one to the fullest.
You sound like you have a problem with your crewing personel, and that for one is so wrong. They are your life, as you are with them. Trust me when I say work with them, don't blame them, remember they have a manager telling them what to do. Applying untold pressure on them to ensure flights operate, with the full crew compliment. If you make their life more difficult than it already is, they will screw you. So when posting on Pprune, remember that someone from crewing department could very well have sussed you out, and taken offence at your actions, and you could find that your future could be unpleasant.
If you want to blame someone, look at your management. Then the crewing management, then the Flight Ops Manager. These are the correct to vent your fury at. Not at the poor souls sat in crewing, busting their guts trying to get flights covered.
I am not a crewing person for the record. However I know CAP371, and the "spirit and intent". CAP371 is a document that all companies FTL are founded on. They then adjust it to suit themselves (for the better of their staff). As the CAA stated, they have not broken any legal agreements, and therefore I would ignore CAP371, and use your companies FTL as the basis for your complaint.
Rant and lecture over.
AOG007
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EUEROPEAN SKY
Very disappointed with your last message. Every airline sometimes makes a mistake,but in my twenty years in
the business I have never known anyone on one grievance
to go to the CAA to air it.They must be laughing behind your back.
Why not get a 9 to 5 job and leave all the serious airline personnel to get on with their jobs and stop your whingeing.
Have you NEVER rung crewing and asked a favour.IE-I have
only two hours of my sby left etc etc.Is it possible to swop a flight
with so and so,I have a wedding to go to etc etc
IF you work for the company that I think you do,and based on
the middle south coast,then nothing has changed since I was
there,so why not leave for another outfit.The only problem you
may have is your attitude,and you will be long term unemployed.
To all the rest of you cabin crew,we think the world of you,so please keep going,we can't survive without you.Not all of us
are nasty people,and it gives us no pleasure in waking you in the
early hours with a callout.But at the end of the day we all need a
job,and remember we only call because someone has gone sick.
Happy flying to you all
Very disappointed with your last message. Every airline sometimes makes a mistake,but in my twenty years in
the business I have never known anyone on one grievance
to go to the CAA to air it.They must be laughing behind your back.
Why not get a 9 to 5 job and leave all the serious airline personnel to get on with their jobs and stop your whingeing.
Have you NEVER rung crewing and asked a favour.IE-I have
only two hours of my sby left etc etc.Is it possible to swop a flight
with so and so,I have a wedding to go to etc etc
IF you work for the company that I think you do,and based on
the middle south coast,then nothing has changed since I was
there,so why not leave for another outfit.The only problem you
may have is your attitude,and you will be long term unemployed.
To all the rest of you cabin crew,we think the world of you,so please keep going,we can't survive without you.Not all of us
are nasty people,and it gives us no pleasure in waking you in the
early hours with a callout.But at the end of the day we all need a
job,and remember we only call because someone has gone sick.
Happy flying to you all
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PRB44,
Well said! I'm sure all crewing guys and gals could'nt agree with you more.
European Sky,
I think you'll find that crewing personel are also disturbed on a regular basis to cover shifts. Remember, crewing does'nt operate with a Standby shift waiting in the back ground, just incase one of them does not feel like coming into the office. Don't act like a spoilt brat, and don't try and dump on your colleagues in such a public manner! Very Unprofessional!
Rant over again!
Well said! I'm sure all crewing guys and gals could'nt agree with you more.
European Sky,
I think you'll find that crewing personel are also disturbed on a regular basis to cover shifts. Remember, crewing does'nt operate with a Standby shift waiting in the back ground, just incase one of them does not feel like coming into the office. Don't act like a spoilt brat, and don't try and dump on your colleagues in such a public manner! Very Unprofessional!
Rant over again!
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Guess that European Sky decided against her comments aimed at her crewing colleagues after all. If not, very drunk, and pressed the worng button several times on all posts....... 
AOG007
AOG007
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aog007
Yes I noticed that too!!!!
But on a more serious note,could all you cabin crew let us know
what you want.We are all working for the same goal,ie to pay
bills etc.To do this we have to fly.Rosters are published and
if no one went sick or had other problems,the likes of us in crewing would be extinct.When you call in sick,we have to replace you,or go minimum crew.We can't win either way.When you ask for a favour we do our best to help.If I am on a day off and someone goes sick,I will come in and cover and not complain that my rest has been abused.Maybe I am lucky,our cabin crew are great and keep us prospering.
And AOG007,how is life over there??
Yes I noticed that too!!!!
But on a more serious note,could all you cabin crew let us know
what you want.We are all working for the same goal,ie to pay
bills etc.To do this we have to fly.Rosters are published and
if no one went sick or had other problems,the likes of us in crewing would be extinct.When you call in sick,we have to replace you,or go minimum crew.We can't win either way.When you ask for a favour we do our best to help.If I am on a day off and someone goes sick,I will come in and cover and not complain that my rest has been abused.Maybe I am lucky,our cabin crew are great and keep us prospering.
And AOG007,how is life over there??
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PRB44
Life over here is great. With the exception of having to watch Manchester United draw with Blackburn earlier this evening.
Nice temperature this time of year, unlike the UK, and the rest of northern Europe.
Once again, I have to agree with you totally. Glad you have good crew, bet it makes your life so much easier, and likewise, so does it with your crew. Thats what so many seem to forget. It's a big merry-go-round! Obviously each company has it's own problems, and it's always the crewing guys/gals that end up in the firing line. Oh well, goes with the territory I suppose.
AOG007
PRB44, just sent u private messge
Life over here is great. With the exception of having to watch Manchester United draw with Blackburn earlier this evening.
Nice temperature this time of year, unlike the UK, and the rest of northern Europe.
Once again, I have to agree with you totally. Glad you have good crew, bet it makes your life so much easier, and likewise, so does it with your crew. Thats what so many seem to forget. It's a big merry-go-round! Obviously each company has it's own problems, and it's always the crewing guys/gals that end up in the firing line. Oh well, goes with the territory I suppose.
AOG007
PRB44, just sent u private messge
Last edited by AOG007; 8th Jan 2003 at 01:42.
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Whats the matter European Sky, why have you deleted all your posts for others to see. worried that someone from ops, crewing or one of the bournemouth bunch have seen yours posts and are going to take action?
Hope you keep you job as it seems that others are not. Terminating contracts and giving insulting extensions to other experienced crew. I think that all the crew and flight deck should go on strike.
Hope you keep you job as it seems that others are not. Terminating contracts and giving insulting extensions to other experienced crew. I think that all the crew and flight deck should go on strike.