Rude Cabin Crew
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few points
captcat
If you re-read 126.9's comments that's EXACTLY what he/she said. If something else was meant, something else should have been said!
The CCs on the low costs receive exactly the same training in ALL aspects of the job. I've seen both sides, it's a fact.
With 20-30 mins to turnround a 737 there isn't time to explain the background to regulations. Simply state the regulation and monitor/ensure compliance.
I don't go around other companies questioning their rules and regs so why do so many (it seems) airline pax think they can? The ever increasing size and weight of cabin baggage is yet another example.
captcat
If you re-read 126.9's comments that's EXACTLY what he/she said. If something else was meant, something else should have been said!
The CCs on the low costs receive exactly the same training in ALL aspects of the job. I've seen both sides, it's a fact.
With 20-30 mins to turnround a 737 there isn't time to explain the background to regulations. Simply state the regulation and monitor/ensure compliance.
I don't go around other companies questioning their rules and regs so why do so many (it seems) airline pax think they can? The ever increasing size and weight of cabin baggage is yet another example.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: staines,uk
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The attitude of many crew on flights comes from the ICCM/No1 or whatever else we're called!!..take it easy crew.
I have never had any probs with crew being rude only on a few occasions when they have had to ask 'a suit' for the third time to
restow their bag/laptop etc ,and then they put behind their legs and don't like being told it can't stay there.
It is not the airline it is the individual crew member,I work for BA and work with some great people who are good at their job and are fun to be with and I have had the pleasure of flying on 'me hols' with my colleagues on charter companies and found them great too(Britannia,Monarch and Air2000 all brill).
NJR.
Bacardi and Coke please and make mine a large one..oh it is!!
I have never had any probs with crew being rude only on a few occasions when they have had to ask 'a suit' for the third time to
restow their bag/laptop etc ,and then they put behind their legs and don't like being told it can't stay there.
It is not the airline it is the individual crew member,I work for BA and work with some great people who are good at their job and are fun to be with and I have had the pleasure of flying on 'me hols' with my colleagues on charter companies and found them great too(Britannia,Monarch and Air2000 all brill).
NJR.
Bacardi and Coke please and make mine a large one..oh it is!!
Wicked Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: I-
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't matter who they work for, I consider WE all are Cabin Crew, and I respect and care for everyone the same, making no difference by airline (mayor, charter or low cost) or by type of aircraft flown...
First at all I'd love to say that as far as Cabin Crew is concerned... not all of us have the luck to "be born" in a perfect airline (well, maybe there's not such a thing, so let's call it a good airline!) and therefore many Cabin Crew see themself in the need of "gipsy around" airlines in the search of something suitable. In my personal opinion I've been always the same .... from a flag carrier to the cheappy UK charter airline with tendency of gloryfication of themself (what a bad time of my life ... I even wore than black and yellow hat!
) I have the "luck" of flying for someone I enjoy and appreciate now, but
I also believe that what suit one of us may not suit the other, and some people I know are happy working for low cost carriers or for charter airlines.
The only thing I'd like to say here is that I expect respect for all my collegues, whoever they work for!
First at all I'd love to say that as far as Cabin Crew is concerned... not all of us have the luck to "be born" in a perfect airline (well, maybe there's not such a thing, so let's call it a good airline!) and therefore many Cabin Crew see themself in the need of "gipsy around" airlines in the search of something suitable. In my personal opinion I've been always the same .... from a flag carrier to the cheappy UK charter airline with tendency of gloryfication of themself (what a bad time of my life ... I even wore than black and yellow hat!
) I have the "luck" of flying for someone I enjoy and appreciate now, butI also believe that what suit one of us may not suit the other, and some people I know are happy working for low cost carriers or for charter airlines.
The only thing I'd like to say here is that I expect respect for all my collegues, whoever they work for!
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not quite sure where this thread is going, beyond accepting that some people are more difficult, or less good at their job, than others.
IMHO There are some answers however:
Cabin Crew tend to be consistent - those that have "problem" pax always seem to do so: Those that rarely have "problem" pax, don't. This should be telling us something about the Crew member involved. There are some crew members that I dread flying with, since I know they will generate customer relations problems that I will have to resolve later. They may be outstanding in some other area of performance, maybe their management of bars is spot-on, or their galley management superb: sadly their weakest area is in people management. I can't believe that this kind of crew member isn't present in all companies across the world.
Passengers, on the other hand, are inconsistent: That's because they are human beings. Just as in real life, walking down the street, some people have a good attitude, some don't and we have to deal with that. Cabin Crew have a right to expect that they be dealt with in a courteous and considerate manner, and so do passengers. Cabin Crew and passengers are the same animal, not distinct - each can become the other.
I often find that some crew tend to put on an attitude different to normal whenever they put on their uniform. They stop talking "to people", and start talking "at passengers". This behaviour is re-enforced by the use of "Sir" & "Madam" - phrases that are almost never used outside of the work context, and serve only to put distance between the crew member and the customer. This divide is further re-enforced by the fact that we stand, they sit: We wear uniform, they don't: We are at home on the a/c, they aren't. My experience is that simply addressing passengers in a normal, natural way, combined with a little thought about what you are saying goes a long way - "because it's in the aviation regulations!" complies with neither of these criteria.
Regardless of the market sector (Lo-cost, Hi-cost, Charter etc.) minimum standards of behaviour apply to all on board. Swearing in the cabin is unacceptable, from crew or passengers. Audible personal comments from the galley, ditto. In short, courtesy, thought and consideration for others should be present from all on board (passengers and crew), whatever the ticket price.
(Short pause as pig flies past window....) - Sigh!
IMHO There are some answers however:
Cabin Crew tend to be consistent - those that have "problem" pax always seem to do so: Those that rarely have "problem" pax, don't. This should be telling us something about the Crew member involved. There are some crew members that I dread flying with, since I know they will generate customer relations problems that I will have to resolve later. They may be outstanding in some other area of performance, maybe their management of bars is spot-on, or their galley management superb: sadly their weakest area is in people management. I can't believe that this kind of crew member isn't present in all companies across the world.
Passengers, on the other hand, are inconsistent: That's because they are human beings. Just as in real life, walking down the street, some people have a good attitude, some don't and we have to deal with that. Cabin Crew have a right to expect that they be dealt with in a courteous and considerate manner, and so do passengers. Cabin Crew and passengers are the same animal, not distinct - each can become the other.
I often find that some crew tend to put on an attitude different to normal whenever they put on their uniform. They stop talking "to people", and start talking "at passengers". This behaviour is re-enforced by the use of "Sir" & "Madam" - phrases that are almost never used outside of the work context, and serve only to put distance between the crew member and the customer. This divide is further re-enforced by the fact that we stand, they sit: We wear uniform, they don't: We are at home on the a/c, they aren't. My experience is that simply addressing passengers in a normal, natural way, combined with a little thought about what you are saying goes a long way - "because it's in the aviation regulations!" complies with neither of these criteria.
Regardless of the market sector (Lo-cost, Hi-cost, Charter etc.) minimum standards of behaviour apply to all on board. Swearing in the cabin is unacceptable, from crew or passengers. Audible personal comments from the galley, ditto. In short, courtesy, thought and consideration for others should be present from all on board (passengers and crew), whatever the ticket price.
(Short pause as pig flies past window....) - Sigh!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, the cardigan issue occured in the third row from the rear. No emergency exit. And I can guarentee you; there is NO REGULATION banning one from having a cardigan on the lap (or an inflight magazine, or telephone, or pen, walkman etc) in such a row. Many aircraft actually have a coat hook as an integral part of the tray-table locking mechanism fitted for just that purpose.
Further; there is NO excuse for profanity in public, and particularly in the manner described here! Cabin crew do not have the right to discuss their passengers in this manner.
The personal attacks, launched by a number of you. at me are simply an affirmation of exactly the type of behaviour I have described here in the first place. After 20 years in aviation, one point has sunk home to me: we, in this industry cannot take criticism! Of ANY sort! Here it has been proven again.
In the meantime; I hope to God that those children never have to prove themselves in their primary role!
Enough said!
Yeah, I think you said enough! Xenia
Further; there is NO excuse for profanity in public, and particularly in the manner described here! Cabin crew do not have the right to discuss their passengers in this manner.
The personal attacks, launched by a number of you. at me are simply an affirmation of exactly the type of behaviour I have described here in the first place. After 20 years in aviation, one point has sunk home to me: we, in this industry cannot take criticism! Of ANY sort! Here it has been proven again.
In the meantime; I hope to God that those children never have to prove themselves in their primary role!
Enough said!
Yeah, I think you said enough! Xenia
Last edited by Xenia; 16th Nov 2002 at 14:19.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember being a pax on an Airtours flight. The crew would not allow paxs to read newspapers and magazines by the o/w exits for take off or landing.
I believe the Cabin Manager had a bee in her bonnet about this and enforced it though out all companies they worked.
As far as I know there is no rule about reading newspapers etc at the o/w and no other airline has operated this policy apart from where this manager worked.
I believe the Cabin Manager had a bee in her bonnet about this and enforced it though out all companies they worked.
As far as I know there is no rule about reading newspapers etc at the o/w and no other airline has operated this policy apart from where this manager worked.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aren't we back to tolerance and courtesy here? I don't think that there is a specific rule about newspapers at an overwing on take off/landing, but it seems to me to be a not totally unreasonable request to make (assuming it was done politely and intelligently). It's hardly a significant imposition, to stop reading a newspaper for 5 -10 minutes. For that matter it's not an imposition to stop reading it during the safety demo either, but let's not go there.
In the absence of legislation, the Cabin Manager is wrong to implement his/her own interpretation of the rules: However, it strikes me as a matter of regret that people should be reading newspapers at this time in the first place, and complaining about it in the second. To me, it is a matter of common sense. Call me old-fashioned...
In the absence of legislation, the Cabin Manager is wrong to implement his/her own interpretation of the rules: However, it strikes me as a matter of regret that people should be reading newspapers at this time in the first place, and complaining about it in the second. To me, it is a matter of common sense. Call me old-fashioned...
Wicked Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: I-
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, just to let you know I am on a few days off, so I'll be watching this closely!
Please behave! especially those of you NOT working in the industry and expecting to have the knowledge of whole world!
TightSlot I follow you in the "old-fashioned" way to be
Please behave! especially those of you NOT working in the industry and expecting to have the knowledge of whole world!
TightSlot I follow you in the "old-fashioned" way to be
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
126.9
I am interested to read that you can guarantee (no matter how YOU choose to spell it!) that no such regulation exists.
Sadly, in your extensive research, you should have looked at :
Air Navigation Order
Statutory Instrument 1989 No. 2004
Part 5
Para 37-1
This is qualified by Part E of the JAA Operations manual.
The fact that manufacturers of aircraft choose to put built in pegs for coats does not make them safe to use. How many aircraft still fly around with ashtrays in the seat arms?
If you drop an item of clothing during an evacuation it immediately becomes a hazard to other passengers. It is dangerous - plain and simple. Furthermore it doesn't matter which row you sit in.
For the SCCM to report 'Cabin Secure' to the Captain, for take off or landing all such items MUST be stowed in accordance with the approved safety procedures for that aircraft/airline. Not in accordance with the WISHES of the passengers or CC.
Regarding your comments on the use of audible profanity in public - I couldn't agree more!
I am interested to read that you can guarantee (no matter how YOU choose to spell it!) that no such regulation exists.
Sadly, in your extensive research, you should have looked at :
Air Navigation Order
Statutory Instrument 1989 No. 2004
Part 5
Para 37-1
This is qualified by Part E of the JAA Operations manual.
The fact that manufacturers of aircraft choose to put built in pegs for coats does not make them safe to use. How many aircraft still fly around with ashtrays in the seat arms?
If you drop an item of clothing during an evacuation it immediately becomes a hazard to other passengers. It is dangerous - plain and simple. Furthermore it doesn't matter which row you sit in.
For the SCCM to report 'Cabin Secure' to the Captain, for take off or landing all such items MUST be stowed in accordance with the approved safety procedures for that aircraft/airline. Not in accordance with the WISHES of the passengers or CC.
Regarding your comments on the use of audible profanity in public - I couldn't agree more!
Last edited by FlapsOne; 16th Nov 2002 at 18:16.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FlapsOne
My extensive research (as you put it) has revealed the following:
1. The regulation to which you refer is located HERE!
2. It pertains to aircraft registered in the UK only.
3. It has nothing to do with the topic of discussion.
4. The JAA do not (appear to) publish a document called Part E. They may however require that your company produce such a document. I will follow this up with them on Monday and report back.
As far as my spelling goes: It is my experience that comments regarding spelling are usually dished out by mono-lingual individuals, who would have no idea regarding the difficulty involved in FLUENCY in as many as 3 languages!
Best regards!
1. The regulation to which you refer is located HERE!
2. It pertains to aircraft registered in the UK only.
3. It has nothing to do with the topic of discussion.
4. The JAA do not (appear to) publish a document called Part E. They may however require that your company produce such a document. I will follow this up with them on Monday and report back.
As far as my spelling goes: It is my experience that comments regarding spelling are usually dished out by mono-lingual individuals, who would have no idea regarding the difficulty involved in FLUENCY in as many as 3 languages!
Best regards!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
(ii) take all reasonable steps to ensure that those items of baggage in the passenger compartment which he reasonably considers ought by virtue of their size, weight or nature to be properly secured are properly secured and, in the case of an aircraft capable of seating more than 30 passengers, that such baggage is either stowed in the passenger compartment stowage spaces approved by the Authority for the purpose or carried in accordance with the terms of a written permission granted by the Authority which permission may be granted subject to such conditions as the Authority thinks fit;
You don't think the bit about size, weight and nature is relevant?
Any company operating on a public transport AOC is required by JAA to produce a series of Operations Manuals. Part E relates to Cabin Crew and Cabin Safety Procedures (plus some other important issues). The layout and content of these manuals is dictated by JAA. Individual companies may impose, if they wish, more restrictive procedures than those laid down by JAA, but not less restrictive.
If a regulation is in that manual, it is approved by the Authority, and it cannot be ignored - no matter how nice the cardigan is!
I am fluent in 2 languages, being English by birth and having lived and worked in Germany for 6 years. What's your point exactly?
You don't think the bit about size, weight and nature is relevant?
Any company operating on a public transport AOC is required by JAA to produce a series of Operations Manuals. Part E relates to Cabin Crew and Cabin Safety Procedures (plus some other important issues). The layout and content of these manuals is dictated by JAA. Individual companies may impose, if they wish, more restrictive procedures than those laid down by JAA, but not less restrictive.
If a regulation is in that manual, it is approved by the Authority, and it cannot be ignored - no matter how nice the cardigan is!
I am fluent in 2 languages, being English by birth and having lived and worked in Germany for 6 years. What's your point exactly?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Land Down Under
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RUDE CREW.!1
Jeezz get a grip people. i think you are all missing the point here, Remember you are also in a customer focused enviroment, IE: No Customers! NO Job...
I travell extensivley and can't count the number of times i have met damm outright rude cabin crew,,, who think there **** dont stink.. i'm here to tell you it does...Glorified wait staff....
Most cant seem to evan do that correctly, so before you go bagging the Customer, just remember why you are even there... yes to serve them/us/me...
you might think you are more important,, but like i said.. the customer pays your wages...you might do well to remember that..
I travell extensivley and can't count the number of times i have met damm outright rude cabin crew,,, who think there **** dont stink.. i'm here to tell you it does...Glorified wait staff....
Most cant seem to evan do that correctly, so before you go bagging the Customer, just remember why you are even there... yes to serve them/us/me...
you might think you are more important,, but like i said.. the customer pays your wages...you might do well to remember that..
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: sydney. australia
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In every job ever known to mankind, there are people who are not quite right for it..the disgruntled pax complaining on this thread are proving that is the case with cabin crew worldwide. BUT, we did know that. Not every job known to mankind has a forum open to the publicwho can abuse them for the actions of some of their less enthusiastic colleagues...it does get tedious! One guy..one cardigan..give us a break!!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Land Down Under
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RUDE CABIN CREW
yes you are correct in what you say, BUT remember the its because of pax! that you are even there to begin with.....i feel sure in saying that you yourself when not working etc are a customer of some sort,,Would you put up with rude staff? poor service etc.. and its all very well for certain crew to state "oh well you get what you pay for,,IE discount tickets etc, but in the end its not the price we pay as a customer that has or should have any bearing on the standard of service provided!!!
Staff can make or break your business and its been proven time and time again that word of mouth goes a long way towards building good will...
Some have said " oh but we are here because its a safety issue,, yes i agree up to a point, but think about it! when was the last time you had in flight emergency that required you to call upon the training you received to be F/A? so for the most part you are in a customer service role, serve drinks, meals,and generally ensure your pax have a enjoyable experience...
some of you might find it useful to watch some of the John Clease training videos with regard to handling abrupt or rude pax,, buy hey the pax pay the bills....................................................... .....
Safe Flying.....
Staff can make or break your business and its been proven time and time again that word of mouth goes a long way towards building good will...
Some have said " oh but we are here because its a safety issue,, yes i agree up to a point, but think about it! when was the last time you had in flight emergency that required you to call upon the training you received to be F/A? so for the most part you are in a customer service role, serve drinks, meals,and generally ensure your pax have a enjoyable experience...
some of you might find it useful to watch some of the John Clease training videos with regard to handling abrupt or rude pax,, buy hey the pax pay the bills....................................................... .....
Safe Flying.....
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You were warned once in another forum. This is completely unnaceptable, and you are no longer welcome on these forums. Take your pathetic opinions elsewhere, and stop wasting the time of the moderators and contributors here.
Sick Squid
Forum Moderator
Sick Squid
Forum Moderator
Last edited by Sick Squid; 17th Nov 2002 at 13:09.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's exactly my Point! (Not the jugs part)
"take all REASONABLE steps to ensure that those items of BAGGAGE in the passenger compartment which he REASONABLY considers ought by virtue of their SIZE, WEIGHT OR NATURE ...bla, bla, bla...
The point is: read the whole rule and a number of things become clear. This rule pertains to the commander's additional duties on board. As the commander; it is my educated estimation that a passenger with a cardigan on his lap, is statistically responsible for less deaths on board than say.... muslim men carrying knives and aged between 25 & 35! So YES, I don't think their is any relevance in the size, weight or nature statement pertaining to the cardigan.
I therefore state for the record that there is definitely no regulation stating that a man may not have his cardigan on his lap during flight.
Furthermore, this statement is drawn from the UK ANO. The limitations of which are; they do not pertain to EI registered aircraft, or aircraft registered anywhere other than the UK. Also, your idea that EJ or Ryanair may have more restrictive policies on board due to their own superior safety requirements is ludicrous! They are PURELY in the business of making money.
For the criticism of my spelling: why don't you write all your replies in German, and I do mine in English?
"take all REASONABLE steps to ensure that those items of BAGGAGE in the passenger compartment which he REASONABLY considers ought by virtue of their SIZE, WEIGHT OR NATURE ...bla, bla, bla...
The point is: read the whole rule and a number of things become clear. This rule pertains to the commander's additional duties on board. As the commander; it is my educated estimation that a passenger with a cardigan on his lap, is statistically responsible for less deaths on board than say.... muslim men carrying knives and aged between 25 & 35! So YES, I don't think their is any relevance in the size, weight or nature statement pertaining to the cardigan.
I therefore state for the record that there is definitely no regulation stating that a man may not have his cardigan on his lap during flight.
Furthermore, this statement is drawn from the UK ANO. The limitations of which are; they do not pertain to EI registered aircraft, or aircraft registered anywhere other than the UK. Also, your idea that EJ or Ryanair may have more restrictive policies on board due to their own superior safety requirements is ludicrous! They are PURELY in the business of making money.
For the criticism of my spelling: why don't you write all your replies in German, and I do mine in English?
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: err, *******, we have a problem
Age: 58
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The tone of this one is heading south rapidly. Remember, play the ball not the player, and keep it clean and within respectful grounds even if you are in disagreement with the points you are engaging.
One of the beauties of the PPRuNe CC forum is that it tends to be one of the most respectful, and friendly on the site, with minimum intervention required to maintain that tone. Lets keep it that way, shall we?
One of the beauties of the PPRuNe CC forum is that it tends to be one of the most respectful, and friendly on the site, with minimum intervention required to maintain that tone. Lets keep it that way, shall we?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, your idea that EJ or Ryanair may have more restrictive policies on board due to their own superior safety requirements is ludicrous!
If the basis of your argument is that the word 'cardigan' does not appear in the ANO or any other national regulation then, I suggest, you have a weak argument.