Why babies under two called plus 'one'
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Why babies under two called plus 'one'
For the passenger count, babies under two are not with adults and children.
Is this because they are small and maybe hard to find in the event of an evacuation?
Also for the oxygen masks and the extension seat belts?
Thanks
Pin
Is this because they are small and maybe hard to find in the event of an evacuation?
Also for the oxygen masks and the extension seat belts?
Thanks
Pin
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Isn't it because if they don't occupy a passenger seat, they don't have a 'mass' on the load sheet (I.e. The adults mass is supposed to cover the infant too if they're sitting on the parent's lap)?
Champ
Champ
It's pretty much what champair79 said. Children under 2 are classified as infants and are regarded differently to everyone over 2. They must be seated on an adult's lap for takeoff and landing, are not entitled to their own seat, don't generally get things like a meal allocated for them, etc. A passenger count total is of the number of seats occupied as opposed to number of persons on board - giving a count of 100+3, for example, makes it clear there are 3 lap children rather than just saying there are 103 persons on board.
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The above may be plausible explanations, but exactly where and when does this information get used? When you have a real problem, you give the authorites the number of persons on board. You do not give a "plus" number, because they don't care. If time permits (and it generally does) you break it down into males, females, children, infants and crew. This is useful information for the RFF crews. Again "plus" is not used. This "plus" rubbish is a left over from the past and has no real purpose today.
PM
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The exact reason why infants are "plus one" is because of the weight and balance of the aircraft... So for example Ryanair counts adults as 87 kg per person, therefore if an infant would be taken as one person that would create a huge discrepancy in weight. Imagine 10 infants taken as adults. That's 870 kilos excess. And if they're all seated in the back of the A/C, it is highly likely to be out of trim and therefore a tail strike might occur during lift off.
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I don't buy that either. And whilst RYR may use different weights, infant do weigh something. So by not counting their weight you could be overloaded and/or out of trim.
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Its for the weight and balance on the load sheet. Male = 88kg Female = 70kg child = 35kg
Infant = NA
Of course these are standard weights and does build in margin (supposed to) into the traffic load calculation.
I flew a 900ER once with 245 passengers. 215 pax plus 30 infants!!
*This should be reviewed soon in my opinion because the average person is getting heavier.
Infant = NA
Of course these are standard weights and does build in margin (supposed to) into the traffic load calculation.
I flew a 900ER once with 245 passengers. 215 pax plus 30 infants!!
*This should be reviewed soon in my opinion because the average person is getting heavier.
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IM intrigued, So you solely rely on the guys at the boarding gate to count your passengers? How do you know if there is a discrepancy with pax expected and actual pax boarded ?
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The above may be plausible explanations, but exactly where and when does this information get used? When you have a real problem, you give the authorites the number of persons on board. You do not give a "plus" number, because they don't care. If time permits (and it generally does) you break it down into males, females, children, infants and crew. This is useful information for the RFF crews. Again "plus" is not used. This "plus" rubbish is a left over from the past and has no real purpose today.
I don't buy that either. And whilst RYR may use different weights, infant do weigh something. So by not counting their weight you could be overloaded and/or out of trim.
Ive never heard of a short-haul carrier not doing head counts. Long haul I guess is different.
IM intrigued, So you solely rely on the guys at the boarding gate to count your passengers? How do you know if there is a discrepancy with pax expected and actual pax boarded ?
it wasn't uncommon to get 10 incorrect headcounts from the cabin crew.
Many times have I been offered 124 plus three plus a cello - when 127 was the correct answer...
A cello??? In a headcount???
You'd have to have been there to believe it!
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But if the cello is occupying a seat the tech crew need to be informed of this so i don't see why advising a cello is onboard is so strange. In my airline, it's procedure to inform tech crew so they can add it in to weight and balance
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It's worth adding that these passenger figures are not what would be passed over the RT in an emergency situation. In that case nobody is interested in +3, cello's, etc. What is passed is a single figure of souls on board, total number of humans inc. babies and crew.
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Actually, rarely are we told the actual passenger numbers. The loadsheet happens by smoke'n'mirrors and any numbers that are needed are sent automatically. We haven't done headcounts for years. But even when I did the loadsheet, I could never work out what to do with the plusses other than to stick them in a little box on the loadsheet. But it pleased people when they passed it on.
PM
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Lightbulb time: When flying charters, all passengers (male, female & child) used to have the same weight (76kgs from memory). So it was for the loadsheet. As a scheduled operator, we have different weights for each of the previous categories so the "plus" is superfluous.
PM
PM
. Which is the best method for a cabin crew to run a head-count?
How would you do a headcount other than by .... errrr ..... counting heads? Anything else is not a headcount, is it?
Add a cello to a loadsheet? You aren't serious? Why, it weighs less than many other carry on bags? What is it that's so special about cellos that they seem to take on quasi-human form when in an aircraft? Blankets and bags in empty seats aren't counted, why should a cello be different?
Piltdown man has it pretty well, I reckon. No one really knows what the plus one means and it is of no use to anyone but it pleases the gnomes in some dim corner of an office if that box is filled in.
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Add a cello to a loadsheet? You aren't serious? Why, it weighs less than many other carry on bags? What is it that's so special about cellos that they seem to take on quasi-human form when in an aircraft? Blankets and bags in empty seats aren't counted, why should a cello be different?
Check your airlines load control manual, it'll be in there.