What's the Mobile Phone rules????
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Chewythe Wookie,
Sorry, but 3 miles is a perfectly reasonable range for a phone to talk to a base station.
Since my earlier post (3 years ago) I think most people have realised just through the accidental or disobedient use of mobiles that in fact they aren't going to drop planes from the skies. It is often said that the average transatlantic flight carries 10 mobiles that aren't switched off.
AA is probably the most liberal that I know now on this: phones off at pushback, and can be used as soon as you leave the runway after landing.
Since AA has the biggest fleet in the world and no problems have been caused it is fair to assume that the only reason all other carriers don't follow suit is just political inertia.
(Or in the case of Australians, the cork up the backside that seems to be a national affliction :-) )
Sorry, but 3 miles is a perfectly reasonable range for a phone to talk to a base station.
Since my earlier post (3 years ago) I think most people have realised just through the accidental or disobedient use of mobiles that in fact they aren't going to drop planes from the skies. It is often said that the average transatlantic flight carries 10 mobiles that aren't switched off.
AA is probably the most liberal that I know now on this: phones off at pushback, and can be used as soon as you leave the runway after landing.
Since AA has the biggest fleet in the world and no problems have been caused it is fair to assume that the only reason all other carriers don't follow suit is just political inertia.
(Or in the case of Australians, the cork up the backside that seems to be a national affliction :-) )
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christep:
AA are liberal *at times*.
Phones on until pushback - yes.
Phones on when off the active on arrival - yes, sometimes.
But I've heard recent AA arrival PAs that say 'phones must remain switched off until you exit the *terminal*(!!)'.
I think the latter case has more to do with paranoiac US Customs & Immigration wanting to keep pax incommunicado until processed...
Anyone else heard this one?
R1
AA are liberal *at times*.
Phones on until pushback - yes.
Phones on when off the active on arrival - yes, sometimes.
But I've heard recent AA arrival PAs that say 'phones must remain switched off until you exit the *terminal*(!!)'.
I think the latter case has more to do with paranoiac US Customs & Immigration wanting to keep pax incommunicado until processed...
Anyone else heard this one?
R1
Relating to the Spark from Mobile phones causing forecourt explosions, it is clear that not many folks here watch - - - MYTHBUSTERS - - - .
They recently did extensive tests, taking things to the absolute extreme and failed on every count to ignite even the heaviest of petrol fume filled atmospheres !!!
They found that the greatest risk came from Women, who get out of the car to pump their fuel and return into the car during the process to retrieive their purse. The resulting static created by their underwear rubbing on the seat fabric, caused a spark of much greater intensity than any mobile phone ever produced.
Men, for their part tend not to wear nylon underwear and usually have their cash or cards in their pocket and do not return to the car during pumping.
The test also included varios types and models of female underwear, but Mrs Grifo clearly thought it was too much for me and flicked channels.
They recently did extensive tests, taking things to the absolute extreme and failed on every count to ignite even the heaviest of petrol fume filled atmospheres !!!
They found that the greatest risk came from Women, who get out of the car to pump their fuel and return into the car during the process to retrieive their purse. The resulting static created by their underwear rubbing on the seat fabric, caused a spark of much greater intensity than any mobile phone ever produced.
Men, for their part tend not to wear nylon underwear and usually have their cash or cards in their pocket and do not return to the car during pumping.
The test also included varios types and models of female underwear, but Mrs Grifo clearly thought it was too much for me and flicked channels.
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KunnDize
Aaaaaaaaaah KunnDize - It's hard to know whether your post is some sort of attempt at a wind up, or whether you are genuinely as challenged as it makes you appear.
The arrogance is simply breathtaking - You will, it appears, decide which "rulz" apply to you and which don't, regardless of the advice given by those whose professional opinion renders them qualified to make a judgement. By this, I refer not only to your technical and cabin crew, but also the national aviation authorities of many countries. You judge your personal convenience to be sufficiently important that you will risk possibly jeopardising the safe conduct of the flight, and the wellbeing of all others on board.
Not content with that, you then appear on PPRuNe to crow about your own superior intellect, whilst sneering at those who seek merely to perform the duties that they have been assigned by their employer.
I could continue, but it is very clear that you will not tolerate any opinion except your own, and therefore this would not be productive. PPRuNe users will hold the high ground however, because EVERYBODY who reads your post will have quietly thought to themselves:-
"Cretin"
You see we've all met you before KunnDize - the face is different every time, but the attitude remains the same.
The arrogance is simply breathtaking - You will, it appears, decide which "rulz" apply to you and which don't, regardless of the advice given by those whose professional opinion renders them qualified to make a judgement. By this, I refer not only to your technical and cabin crew, but also the national aviation authorities of many countries. You judge your personal convenience to be sufficiently important that you will risk possibly jeopardising the safe conduct of the flight, and the wellbeing of all others on board.
Not content with that, you then appear on PPRuNe to crow about your own superior intellect, whilst sneering at those who seek merely to perform the duties that they have been assigned by their employer.
I could continue, but it is very clear that you will not tolerate any opinion except your own, and therefore this would not be productive. PPRuNe users will hold the high ground however, because EVERYBODY who reads your post will have quietly thought to themselves:-
"Cretin"
You see we've all met you before KunnDize - the face is different every time, but the attitude remains the same.
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I agree. If I'd been the cabin crew member you caused to become flustered, I'd have reported you to the flight deck and asked the Captain to deal with you, either by speaking to you himself or having the police meet the flight. You have no right to disobey a rule which is in place for the safety of the aircraft.
During the last flight I was on, someone quite near to me kept receiving text messages but we couldn't determine who it was. After landing several people turned on their phones during taxiing and also received messages. The airline had specifically stated that mobile phone use was prohibited until inside the terminal building.
Soem people do love to flout the rules .......... or maybe they just feel that the rules should apply only to everyone else but not them.
Breathtaking arrogance!
During the last flight I was on, someone quite near to me kept receiving text messages but we couldn't determine who it was. After landing several people turned on their phones during taxiing and also received messages. The airline had specifically stated that mobile phone use was prohibited until inside the terminal building.
Soem people do love to flout the rules .......... or maybe they just feel that the rules should apply only to everyone else but not them.
Breathtaking arrogance!
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Paxboy,
Aviation fuel (Avtur, not Avgas) is nothing more than kerosine, with addatives such as FSII, far less volatile than petrol.
I've seen cigarettes dropped into pools of avtur without incident, it needs to be vapourised (a function within the engine) to burn unless at very high temperature.
Precautions are of course taken, such as bonding bowser and aircraft on refuel, to mitigate against static, but again, a small leak at pressure to vapourise the fuel would most likely be needed to achieve combustion.
BUT the fuel on the ramp is more volatile. Take your pick!
I've seen cigarettes dropped into pools of avtur without incident, it needs to be vapourised (a function within the engine) to burn unless at very high temperature.
Precautions are of course taken, such as bonding bowser and aircraft on refuel, to mitigate against static, but again, a small leak at pressure to vapourise the fuel would most likely be needed to achieve combustion.
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Whatever your opinion, you should obey the rules that have been put in place for the safety of all on board the aircraft.
I really cannot stand those people who think that they should be the one to decide which rules apply to them and they disobey the rules they don't agree with.
These sort of people would be the first to make a hell of a lot of noise if anything happened to them or their families as a result of someone else ignoring the safety rules.
People like that make me
For goodness sake .... is it so difficult to be out of contact for a few hours?? It used to be the norm till a few years ago.
I really cannot stand those people who think that they should be the one to decide which rules apply to them and they disobey the rules they don't agree with.
These sort of people would be the first to make a hell of a lot of noise if anything happened to them or their families as a result of someone else ignoring the safety rules.
People like that make me
For goodness sake .... is it so difficult to be out of contact for a few hours?? It used to be the norm till a few years ago.
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Qf Info
Ok...here are the rules for on Qantas.
For flights QF400 and above as of 7 June 2005.
If the aircraft is connected to an aerobridge the following applies;
As the final pax are boarding, as part of your welcome onboard PA this should include .....
"Mobile phones and Portable Electronic devices must now be switched off. If your mobile phone of Portable Electronic Device can operate in 'flight mode' please switch it to 'flight mode' before turning it off.
Radio transmitters may not be used at anytime during the flight.
Portable Electronic devices including laptop computers, toys and handheld games can interfere with our navigation instruments. They may not be switched on until the seatbelt sign has been extinguished and must be switched off prior to descent.
On arrival into _____ we will advise you when you may switch on your mobile phone.
Then...as part of the Arrival PA....
Ladies & Gentlemen, Welcome to ________ where the time is _____.
If your mobile phone is within your reach you may now switch it on. and it goes on.....
Hope this clears up the latest QF policy!
For flights QF400 and above as of 7 June 2005.
If the aircraft is connected to an aerobridge the following applies;
As the final pax are boarding, as part of your welcome onboard PA this should include .....
"Mobile phones and Portable Electronic devices must now be switched off. If your mobile phone of Portable Electronic Device can operate in 'flight mode' please switch it to 'flight mode' before turning it off.
Radio transmitters may not be used at anytime during the flight.
Portable Electronic devices including laptop computers, toys and handheld games can interfere with our navigation instruments. They may not be switched on until the seatbelt sign has been extinguished and must be switched off prior to descent.
On arrival into _____ we will advise you when you may switch on your mobile phone.
Then...as part of the Arrival PA....
Ladies & Gentlemen, Welcome to ________ where the time is _____.
If your mobile phone is within your reach you may now switch it on. and it goes on.....
Hope this clears up the latest QF policy!
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Use of mobile phones on Aircraft.
OK. So would you all like to learn the REAL truth about using a mobile phone at a filling station or onboard an aircraft?
1) Using a mobile phone at a filling station takes the customer
longer time in refuelling the car, thus causing a delay to other
customers, who may well 'drive on' to the next filling station
which ain't good for business.
2) Using a mobile phone in any public environment whether it be
on a train, restaurant, or airplane is irritating to other travellers
who have to listen in to your 'plans for Friday night with Dave'.
There is, and never has been, any conclusive evidence that the use of mobile telecommunications equipment poses any threat to safety in the above circumstances.
I would, however, like to point out that the most serious threat to public health regarding the use of mobile phones comes from those who are using the new 'frog' ring tone.
Any passengers who allow this ringtone to sound beyond a maximum of five seconds anywhere at Gatwick will get my boot up their @rse!
1) Using a mobile phone at a filling station takes the customer
longer time in refuelling the car, thus causing a delay to other
customers, who may well 'drive on' to the next filling station
which ain't good for business.
2) Using a mobile phone in any public environment whether it be
on a train, restaurant, or airplane is irritating to other travellers
who have to listen in to your 'plans for Friday night with Dave'.
There is, and never has been, any conclusive evidence that the use of mobile telecommunications equipment poses any threat to safety in the above circumstances.
I would, however, like to point out that the most serious threat to public health regarding the use of mobile phones comes from those who are using the new 'frog' ring tone.
Any passengers who allow this ringtone to sound beyond a maximum of five seconds anywhere at Gatwick will get my boot up their @rse!
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let me just say.......
To all those people out there who say that mobile phones do not interfere with the Aircrafts navigational instruments and does not pose as a real threat to safety consider this ............
Flying one day while doing service in cruise, aircraft distinctly moved and changed course. Captain called myself to F/Deck and advised that aircraft had the auto pilot disengage by itself and it appeared that there was some sort of interference for this to happen. This happened twice on the flight and had never happened before.
Second time, the Captain requested crew to check all Pax mobiles to see if any were switched on. ....... After thorough check of pax who were travelling with mobiles ( this took a little time, but all pax were understanding) NO mobiles found to be switched on (Amazing, I hear you gasp!!!
) This was reported back to Captain.
After flight - crew disembarked aircraft and it was noted that one of their phones was still on!!!! ( yeah , I know.....we forgot to check the most usual suspects!!!!)
So explain why a new aircraft which has never had any problems before all of a sudden disengages auto pilot twice and the only electical device found to be on was a mobile ..........
And remember this was just one phone - what if there were more on - maybe the aircraft would have ended up anywhere...........
Until conculsive tests can prove beyond a doubt that mobile phones do not interfere in ANY way with an aircraft, I see no reason why we need to have them on while in flight...... afterall, no - one is THAT important that the world cannot continue to revolve without people being able to reach them on their mobile for the short time that they are on an aircraft. (Talk about a big self worth that some people have of themselves!!!
)
And to those who turn their phone on while taxiing or before getting off the aircraft - I mean really !!! - what is an extra 2 miutes wait going to do???? Surely the fact of being free of those annoying mobiles constantly ringing is enough encouragement to keep it off for just that little longer!!!???
What DID we do before Mobile phones came along - how on earth did we survive ???!!!???
Flying one day while doing service in cruise, aircraft distinctly moved and changed course. Captain called myself to F/Deck and advised that aircraft had the auto pilot disengage by itself and it appeared that there was some sort of interference for this to happen. This happened twice on the flight and had never happened before.
Second time, the Captain requested crew to check all Pax mobiles to see if any were switched on. ....... After thorough check of pax who were travelling with mobiles ( this took a little time, but all pax were understanding) NO mobiles found to be switched on (Amazing, I hear you gasp!!!
) This was reported back to Captain.After flight - crew disembarked aircraft and it was noted that one of their phones was still on!!!! ( yeah , I know.....we forgot to check the most usual suspects!!!!)
So explain why a new aircraft which has never had any problems before all of a sudden disengages auto pilot twice and the only electical device found to be on was a mobile ..........
And remember this was just one phone - what if there were more on - maybe the aircraft would have ended up anywhere...........
Until conculsive tests can prove beyond a doubt that mobile phones do not interfere in ANY way with an aircraft, I see no reason why we need to have them on while in flight...... afterall, no - one is THAT important that the world cannot continue to revolve without people being able to reach them on their mobile for the short time that they are on an aircraft. (Talk about a big self worth that some people have of themselves!!!
)And to those who turn their phone on while taxiing or before getting off the aircraft - I mean really !!! - what is an extra 2 miutes wait going to do???? Surely the fact of being free of those annoying mobiles constantly ringing is enough encouragement to keep it off for just that little longer!!!???
What DID we do before Mobile phones came along - how on earth did we survive ???!!!???
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Good post HoHum! 
Surely it is better to be safe than sorry until we know for absolutely certain that mobiles on aircraft inflight are safe.
And I quite agree with your thoughts on why people need to use the bl**dy things anyway and can't wait for an hour or two to make/receive calls or messages.
Totally sad!!
Surely it is better to be safe than sorry until we know for absolutely certain that mobiles on aircraft inflight are safe.
And I quite agree with your thoughts on why people need to use the bl**dy things anyway and can't wait for an hour or two to make/receive calls or messages.
Totally sad!!
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What is the deal with "inflight" mode on mobiles?
I had a CM tell me that phones with inflight mode still have to be turned off as even in inflight mode the phones still search the network for signals ect.
Anyone know how true this is?
AO is different to QF, mobiles turned off upon entering aircraft, and not turned on until inside the terminal.
Cheers,
Raver :o)
I had a CM tell me that phones with inflight mode still have to be turned off as even in inflight mode the phones still search the network for signals ect.
Anyone know how true this is?
AO is different to QF, mobiles turned off upon entering aircraft, and not turned on until inside the terminal.
Cheers,
Raver :o)
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Avtur
Backing up what Kokpit says, I run my paraffin patio lgihts on Jet-A1 I bought from local airfield...
"I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning, smells like, victory"
Misquoted deliberately - but it does make the garden smell like the airport! You could throw a match in the container and it would go out - they only light once the wick has had loads of time to soak up what is, essentially, diesel
"I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning, smells like, victory"
Misquoted deliberately - but it does make the garden smell like the airport! You could throw a match in the container and it would go out - they only light once the wick has had loads of time to soak up what is, essentially, diesel
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I was led to believe, and I must say that this seems the best reason for not being aloowed to use a mobile on board, especially after seeing countless people at petrol pumps, and of course the odd one on board using a phone is that...
If people had mobile phones switched on; on board... the phone networks would crash as they could not handle switching between transmitters of that number of phones.
Think about it. Say 150 people per aircraft have phone switched on (as an average guess) and the number of aircraft movements over the UK per day.
It's not like a car where it would be a new transmitter every few minutes, in a plane it would be every few seconds.
I think the base stations they would like to fit lower the switching by factors of thousands, as each aircraft has to switch every few seconds, not the entire passenger load.
If mobiles were that bad they would surely stop cars and things, the amount of electrics in them today.
For the record I am not a fan of phones on planes... I hope that if they do allow them they provide an area to use them.
Maybe a sound proof box on the wing?
If people had mobile phones switched on; on board... the phone networks would crash as they could not handle switching between transmitters of that number of phones.
Think about it. Say 150 people per aircraft have phone switched on (as an average guess) and the number of aircraft movements over the UK per day.
It's not like a car where it would be a new transmitter every few minutes, in a plane it would be every few seconds.
I think the base stations they would like to fit lower the switching by factors of thousands, as each aircraft has to switch every few seconds, not the entire passenger load.
If mobiles were that bad they would surely stop cars and things, the amount of electrics in them today.
For the record I am not a fan of phones on planes... I hope that if they do allow them they provide an area to use them.
Maybe a sound proof box on the wing?
Mobile phones DO affect aircraft instruments as Mike Jenvey says. I have lost my transponder signal (call from ATC . we just lost your transponder signal) ... at the precise moment that the headset started the familiar noise to tell me the phone was still switched on in my shirt pocket.
If it affects two electronic RF devices (VHF comms and transponder), I am quite sure it will also affect other electronic devices.
Can also vouch for the effect on other non radio electronics in this case analytical equipment (which was supposed to pass a BS standard and be RF immune). In a previous life had a lot to do with water treatment equipment and the chemical analysis equipment went haywire everytime a mobile phone rang ... on many occasions I saw, the peron holding the phone was more than a metre away from the equipment affected.
Thus .. keep them switched off near safety critical electronic equipment.
As far as igniting fumes is concerned .. I have never had any evidence presented to me that demonstrates a likelihood. Have only been told that there is a basic theoretical support for the problem.
(In the same way, I have never found anybody who can explain to me why we earth aeroplanes to refuel them, when we don't earth cars !!!)
DGG
If it affects two electronic RF devices (VHF comms and transponder), I am quite sure it will also affect other electronic devices.
Can also vouch for the effect on other non radio electronics in this case analytical equipment (which was supposed to pass a BS standard and be RF immune). In a previous life had a lot to do with water treatment equipment and the chemical analysis equipment went haywire everytime a mobile phone rang ... on many occasions I saw, the peron holding the phone was more than a metre away from the equipment affected.
Thus .. keep them switched off near safety critical electronic equipment.
As far as igniting fumes is concerned .. I have never had any evidence presented to me that demonstrates a likelihood. Have only been told that there is a basic theoretical support for the problem.
(In the same way, I have never found anybody who can explain to me why we earth aeroplanes to refuel them, when we don't earth cars !!!)
DGG
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Flight Mode
In regards to flight mode, as far as I am aware it is only available on Blackberry phones. To say the least if flight mode was going to interfere with navigational equipment, then I don't think the trail of PDA's used by CSM's for QF would have proven to be successfull. All crew for QF that reads the cabin crew news should know what i'm talking about.
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Flightmode is available on many phones, not just blackberries. I have a SonyEricsson which has flightmode, however, this allows passengers to think that when putting their phone in flight mode they can leave it switched on (as an electronic item) for take off.
This is the CAA advice/ruling:
"Mobile phones and personal electronic equipment"
The CAA has conducted research which provided evidence that a mobile phone transmission on-board an aircraft may interfere with equipment including communications, navigation and flight control systems. There is circumstantial evidence that portable electronic devices such as CD players and computer games can also cause interference. As a result there is a requirement that:
The use of mobile phones on board aircraft is prohibited while the aircraft's engines are running.
In addition, the use of personal electronic equipment by passengers, such as laptop computers, electronic games, calculators, CD players, cassette players, radios, TVs, video cameras and remote controlled toys, is prohibited during take-off and landing phases, when the passenger seat belt sign is on, and whenever the aircraft commander suspects that their use may be the cause of interference."
In line with this, BA prohibits passengers to have their mobile phones switched on whilst the engines are running. This obviously includes taxying. Seatbelt signs go off when the engines have been shut down on the ground.
They may use phones whilst refuelling but its always wise to keep an ear out incase of the need to leave quickly.
I've been led to believe by various avionic engineers that on some aircraft, dury taxy, mobiles can confuse sensors and signals to the flight crew in equipment like engine fire extinguishers and verbal communication with the tower on the ground.
What does make me laugh however, is the reports that more mobile phone masts are cropping up in the petrol stations concealed in the price tariff tower.
This is the CAA advice/ruling:
"Mobile phones and personal electronic equipment"
The CAA has conducted research which provided evidence that a mobile phone transmission on-board an aircraft may interfere with equipment including communications, navigation and flight control systems. There is circumstantial evidence that portable electronic devices such as CD players and computer games can also cause interference. As a result there is a requirement that:
The use of mobile phones on board aircraft is prohibited while the aircraft's engines are running.
In addition, the use of personal electronic equipment by passengers, such as laptop computers, electronic games, calculators, CD players, cassette players, radios, TVs, video cameras and remote controlled toys, is prohibited during take-off and landing phases, when the passenger seat belt sign is on, and whenever the aircraft commander suspects that their use may be the cause of interference."
In line with this, BA prohibits passengers to have their mobile phones switched on whilst the engines are running. This obviously includes taxying. Seatbelt signs go off when the engines have been shut down on the ground.
They may use phones whilst refuelling but its always wise to keep an ear out incase of the need to leave quickly.
I've been led to believe by various avionic engineers that on some aircraft, dury taxy, mobiles can confuse sensors and signals to the flight crew in equipment like engine fire extinguishers and verbal communication with the tower on the ground.
What does make me laugh however, is the reports that more mobile phone masts are cropping up in the petrol stations concealed in the price tariff tower.
PEDs
The current UK CAA policy is detailed in AIC1/2004 Pink 62. I am not sure how to post a link as you need to register on this site http://www.ais.org.uk to access it.
Six Mile High, from some of your previous posts I believe it is your employers who have been instrumental in developing the on board mobile phone system for airliners.
Personally, I am grateful I have to turn it off!!!
MM
Six Mile High, from some of your previous posts I believe it is your employers who have been instrumental in developing the on board mobile phone system for airliners.
Personally, I am grateful I have to turn it off!!!
MM
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Having flown half way round the world (from the Falklands) without a hitch, I was amazed at the attitude of passengers on the flight from Heathrow to Edinburgh - one woman, despite being the last to get on board - wandered down the aisle to her seat whilst having a banal conversation on her mobile, despite the cabin crew asking her to hurry and switch it off. As the crew went about their checks she started another call, at which point my travelling companion tapped her on the shoulder and asked her to switch the phone off. She huffed "I travel every week and it never causes any problems, there's no risk", to which my mate said "I'm an Avionics Engineer, there are several risks, the biggest of which is me shoving that phone up your ". Much laughing from all the other passengers, and one phone swtiched off!
I think the bigger problem is the way that hardly anyone pays attention to the safety brief (which is why I always try to get a seat near an exit - damned if I'm going to fight my way out). I'm sure the crew doing the demonstrations could stand there pulling faces and no-one would notice!
Dave Gittins:
It's to do with the levels of static that build up with the air passing over the airframe - the tyres should earth it all on landing, so it's just a bit 'belt-and-braces' really. You'd only need to do it on your car if it went 500mph....
". Much laughing from all the other passengers, and one phone swtiched off!I think the bigger problem is the way that hardly anyone pays attention to the safety brief (which is why I always try to get a seat near an exit - damned if I'm going to fight my way out). I'm sure the crew doing the demonstrations could stand there pulling faces and no-one would notice!
Dave Gittins:
In the same way, I have never found anybody who can explain to me why we earth aeroplanes to refuel them, when we don't earth cars !!!)