Cabin Safety and Complaints
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Cabin Safety and Complaints
Hello,
I'm an EK frequent flier, with some status, and as such I frequently get upgrades. On a DXB-BKK-HKG flight, I got upgraded from J to F; a rather pleasant surprise for this route, and on the A380 to boot. I mostly fly J for work because of the comfort and convenience, and have never negotiated for a J-F upgrade (Y-J is another story
). I'm not an especially fussy flier, except about my seat (an issue with EK given their varied product, but something I can anticipate) and those awful remote bays in DXB. Both are out of the control of the crew, so nary a peep from me on-board.
I went straight to sleep after a quick change once we'd levelled off, skipping the first meal service, and was then surprised to find myself on the ground, in BKK, seat fully-reclined, and without my seat belt on. I went forward to speak to the purser, who was quite dismissive. I asked for a complaint form, and he refused, saying I should just be grateful for the upgrade I received. I went back to my seat, he eventually came round with the forms, and I took two: one for what I thought was the safety lapse, and the second for his reaction. I thought having the upgrade thrown back at me was uncalled for. My first and only complaint to EK, they called to apologise a few weeks later, and I turned down the offer of miles. Matter closed.
On another forum, a business travel one, someone spoke about the leniency in F, relative to other classes. I recounted my experience, and was called, I believe, pompous and dramatic. By several people. Others said I should have just buckled up, which is correct, but misses the point I think.
What are your views? Is there another way I should have handled this situation? Did I overreact? Is it the expectation that even people upgraded from premium classes should be grateful (I did hold a full fare J ticket)? If I did overreact, when and how is it appropriate to raise safety concerns?
I'll be appalled if I came off as pompous, but can't get my head around it.
I'm an EK frequent flier, with some status, and as such I frequently get upgrades. On a DXB-BKK-HKG flight, I got upgraded from J to F; a rather pleasant surprise for this route, and on the A380 to boot. I mostly fly J for work because of the comfort and convenience, and have never negotiated for a J-F upgrade (Y-J is another story
). I'm not an especially fussy flier, except about my seat (an issue with EK given their varied product, but something I can anticipate) and those awful remote bays in DXB. Both are out of the control of the crew, so nary a peep from me on-board. I went straight to sleep after a quick change once we'd levelled off, skipping the first meal service, and was then surprised to find myself on the ground, in BKK, seat fully-reclined, and without my seat belt on. I went forward to speak to the purser, who was quite dismissive. I asked for a complaint form, and he refused, saying I should just be grateful for the upgrade I received. I went back to my seat, he eventually came round with the forms, and I took two: one for what I thought was the safety lapse, and the second for his reaction. I thought having the upgrade thrown back at me was uncalled for. My first and only complaint to EK, they called to apologise a few weeks later, and I turned down the offer of miles. Matter closed.
On another forum, a business travel one, someone spoke about the leniency in F, relative to other classes. I recounted my experience, and was called, I believe, pompous and dramatic. By several people. Others said I should have just buckled up, which is correct, but misses the point I think.
What are your views? Is there another way I should have handled this situation? Did I overreact? Is it the expectation that even people upgraded from premium classes should be grateful (I did hold a full fare J ticket)? If I did overreact, when and how is it appropriate to raise safety concerns?
I'll be appalled if I came off as pompous, but can't get my head around it.
Last edited by WifeIsAPilot; 17th Jul 2013 at 18:39.
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OK, I'll have a go at this - the kind of thing your best friends won't tell you...
Going only on your post above, I'm afraid you do come over as a bit pompous. Or maybe not pompous exactly, but precious and melodramatic. This has nothing to do with your original complaint, which was entirely justified - and to which EK has responded correctly. As you say, the matter is closed.
So why raise it here? To get reassurance from a bunch of strangers that you are not prompous? I'm afraid that in itself has a whiff of pompousness about it. And the length and detail of the extraneous and irrelevant material you include to demonstrate that you're not fussy or demanding actually has the opposite effect - it suggests you are, in fact, fussy and demanding (this may be a false impression - but it's the impression your post gives).
Again, this has nothing to do with the validity of your complaint. That was a safety issue which you were quite correct to raise with the crew (next time, it might be better to ask to speak to the captain). But I wonder if you aren't inadvertently setting people against you by your manner.
Of course, free advice from an anonymous internet forum is worth exactly what you paid for it. But you did ask...
Going only on your post above, I'm afraid you do come over as a bit pompous. Or maybe not pompous exactly, but precious and melodramatic. This has nothing to do with your original complaint, which was entirely justified - and to which EK has responded correctly. As you say, the matter is closed.
So why raise it here? To get reassurance from a bunch of strangers that you are not prompous? I'm afraid that in itself has a whiff of pompousness about it. And the length and detail of the extraneous and irrelevant material you include to demonstrate that you're not fussy or demanding actually has the opposite effect - it suggests you are, in fact, fussy and demanding (this may be a false impression - but it's the impression your post gives).
Again, this has nothing to do with the validity of your complaint. That was a safety issue which you were quite correct to raise with the crew (next time, it might be better to ask to speak to the captain). But I wonder if you aren't inadvertently setting people against you by your manner.
Of course, free advice from an anonymous internet forum is worth exactly what you paid for it. But you did ask...
Assorted thoughts:
When I worked in Aviation, having safety conscious customers was seen as a good thing.
Reporting what you experienced is exactly what UK Aviation encourages staff to do.
Once upon a time, staff used to regard frequent flyers as customers to be cosseted. You appear to have met the staff member who just dislikes customers. There are some of them around.
When I worked in Aviation, having safety conscious customers was seen as a good thing.
Reporting what you experienced is exactly what UK Aviation encourages staff to do.
Once upon a time, staff used to regard frequent flyers as customers to be cosseted. You appear to have met the staff member who just dislikes customers. There are some of them around.
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I have to agree with Ancient Observer. Having read the post, I can't see where others are getting pompous, precious and melodramatic from. Maybe I have read it differently but to me, this seems to be a pretty factual account. From my point of view, the background frequent flier status appears to be no more than an indication that the OP is an experienced flier and is therefore aware of the usual procedures.
For the purser to not only dismiss something so potentially dangerous but to then throw the upgrade back in the OPs face when he dares to query what happened, is highly unprofessional as far as I'm concerned. Obviously, I wasn't there so don't know how the issue was initially approached but regardless, it is up to the Purser to remain professional and I would have expected at least some concern to be shown regarding the breach of airline SOPs, even if it was down to a mistake by the crew member securing that part of the cabin for landing. And I certainly wouldn't have expected a childish and spiteful throw away comment in retaliation. Very poor behaviour from the crew member, in my opinion.
For the purser to not only dismiss something so potentially dangerous but to then throw the upgrade back in the OPs face when he dares to query what happened, is highly unprofessional as far as I'm concerned. Obviously, I wasn't there so don't know how the issue was initially approached but regardless, it is up to the Purser to remain professional and I would have expected at least some concern to be shown regarding the breach of airline SOPs, even if it was down to a mistake by the crew member securing that part of the cabin for landing. And I certainly wouldn't have expected a childish and spiteful throw away comment in retaliation. Very poor behaviour from the crew member, in my opinion.
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Crewmeal,
Just some factual corrections:
My post does say I only asked for a form after the purser was dismissive. It was not my opening gambit.
I live in Dubai, and understand the cultural differences. This was not the issue.
Given that EK later acknowledged their mistake, and this is the only time I have been allowed to have my seat reclined on EK, I think it is safe to assume that EK's SOPs do not allow for reclined seats, and surely all airlines require seatbelts for landing.
Just some factual corrections:
My post does say I only asked for a form after the purser was dismissive. It was not my opening gambit.
I live in Dubai, and understand the cultural differences. This was not the issue.
Given that EK later acknowledged their mistake, and this is the only time I have been allowed to have my seat reclined on EK, I think it is safe to assume that EK's SOPs do not allow for reclined seats, and surely all airlines require seatbelts for landing.
Last edited by WifeIsAPilot; 19th Jul 2013 at 22:51.
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Seatbelt
Why did you go to sleep without your seatbelt fastened ?
You're an adult so take some responsibility for your safety.
Having to remind a FF with "some status"to fasten his seatbelt should be unecessary.
P.S: You do come across as a tad pompous
You're an adult so take some responsibility for your safety.
Having to remind a FF with "some status"to fasten his seatbelt should be unecessary.
P.S: You do come across as a tad pompous
Last edited by Firecat; 20th Jul 2013 at 05:18.
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Firecat, there is no rule that passengers have to wear their seat belts when the sign is switched off! Yes we do advise that they do keep them fastened in case we encounter turbulence but it's their personal choice and I'd say its a 50-50 split of people who undo their belts and those that keep them on. For heavens sake, we even say in the PA that we will have to disturb you if you are sleeping without the belt fastened and the sign goes on. This crew didn't even bother to disturb him for landing! And let's not forget the fully reclined seat position. What would you rather passengers do? Bring an alarm clock and set it for 20 minutes prior to landing? Or does this airline not require that the cabin be secured for landing anymore?
I'm sorry but I fail to understand why everyone is attacking this person for what was a clear failure on behalf of a crew that were not doing their job properly and who then compounded it with spite when questioned.
I give up!
I'm sorry but I fail to understand why everyone is attacking this person for what was a clear failure on behalf of a crew that were not doing their job properly and who then compounded it with spite when questioned.
I give up!
Last edited by jetset lady; 20th Jul 2013 at 12:52. Reason: where, wear, ware.....one of those!
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I'll try and be gentle...
G'day WifeIsAPilot,
I agree with the others that you're coming off a bit "pompous" etc.
Here's a part of an "email etiquette" page I googled:
While the above example was for sarcasm, it can be applied to any tone you're implying in your email. It isn't up to the reader to infer the correct tone you choose to put on a written message.
Whenever I'm about to send an emotive email/Prune post/letter/etc., I get another person to read it first and see if they're picking up what I'm putting down.
Going back to your opening post:
IMHO, yes and yes.
Faced with the same situation I'd most likely have said "Hey, I'm in Bangkok! Cool!" My only conversation with the Purser would have been along the lines of "How long until we depart for HK?", "Can I get off the plane?", and "Where's the bar?".
DIVOSH!
I agree with the others that you're coming off a bit "pompous" etc.
Here's a part of an "email etiquette" page I googled:
Remember that your tone can't be heard in e-mail. Have you ever attempted sarcasm in an e-mail, and the recipient took it the wrong way? E-mail communication can't convey the nuances of verbal communication. In an attempt to infer tone of voice, some people use emoticons, but use them sparingly so that you don't appear unprofessional. Also, don't assume that using a smiley will diffuse a difficult message.
Whenever I'm about to send an emotive email/Prune post/letter/etc., I get another person to read it first and see if they're picking up what I'm putting down.
Going back to your opening post:
Is there another way I should have handled this situation? Did I overreact?
Faced with the same situation I'd most likely have said "Hey, I'm in Bangkok! Cool!" My only conversation with the Purser would have been along the lines of "How long until we depart for HK?", "Can I get off the plane?", and "Where's the bar?".
DIVOSH!
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Faced with the same situation I'd most likely have said "Hey, I'm in Bangkok! Cool!"
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...francisco.html
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I believe I was called pompous for complaining, not the tone of my post, or use of smileys and such. English is my fourth language, and frankly, tone and diction are culture specific. I apologise if I offend. To clear that up, I hope, my original post in the other forum:
"Yes, interesting point on leniency in F. I once flew DXB HKG with a stopover in BKK, and got an OpUp to F on the 388. Decided to sleep the DXB BKK leg, so no food or drink. Woke up, seat full reclined, on the ground in BKK.
Leniency to the point it puts my health in danger....I can live without.
Funny bit is when I raised this, and later asked for a form when the purser seemed indifferent, the purser says I'm being ungrateful for the OpUp."
I was not travelling to Bangkok, but Hong Kong, sadly. The aircraft made a scheduled stop in Bangkok. Not sure why / how that would have made a difference.
Yes, I should have had my seatbelt on, as the crew advises, and I generally do. This was one of those rare occasions I didn't. The crew does a walk-through to ensure everyone is buckled up before landing, and on EK, to make sure seats are fully upright. They didn't, or at least properly, in this case.
"Yes, interesting point on leniency in F. I once flew DXB HKG with a stopover in BKK, and got an OpUp to F on the 388. Decided to sleep the DXB BKK leg, so no food or drink. Woke up, seat full reclined, on the ground in BKK.
Leniency to the point it puts my health in danger....I can live without.
Funny bit is when I raised this, and later asked for a form when the purser seemed indifferent, the purser says I'm being ungrateful for the OpUp."
I was not travelling to Bangkok, but Hong Kong, sadly. The aircraft made a scheduled stop in Bangkok. Not sure why / how that would have made a difference.
Yes, I should have had my seatbelt on, as the crew advises, and I generally do. This was one of those rare occasions I didn't. The crew does a walk-through to ensure everyone is buckled up before landing, and on EK, to make sure seats are fully upright. They didn't, or at least properly, in this case.
Last edited by WifeIsAPilot; 20th Jul 2013 at 09:16.
In the end, it was about safety.
Reporting it either pompously or not does not matter. Even if you were not entirely sober at the time, or if you were feeling grumpy, it doesn't matter.
What matters is that it gets reported. All UK based folk in Aviation have that drummed in to them.
Aviation does its best not to repeat its mistakes.
(Maybe the UK CAA should be appointed to run safety for the NHS???)
Reporting it either pompously or not does not matter. Even if you were not entirely sober at the time, or if you were feeling grumpy, it doesn't matter.
What matters is that it gets reported. All UK based folk in Aviation have that drummed in to them.
Aviation does its best not to repeat its mistakes.
(Maybe the UK CAA should be appointed to run safety for the NHS???)
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Treat Pax Like Children ?
Firecat, there is no rule that passengers have to where their seat belts when the sign is switched off!
Common sense please ....wake the guy up to tell him to fasten his seat?
You'll get a mouthful from him....either way he aint happy
Common sense please ....wake the guy up to tell him to fasten his seat?
You'll get a mouthful from him....either way he aint happy
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Originally Posted by Firecat
Common sense please ....wake the guy up to tell him to fasten his seat?
You'll get a mouthful from him....either way he aint happy
You'll get a mouthful from him....either way he aint happy
Have I wandered into some weird alternate reality here.....?
Last edited by jetset lady; 20th Jul 2013 at 12:51.
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Not The Full Story
I smell a rat.
I dont think that the initiator of this thread is giving us the full story
Did he take a sleeping pill ?
Were attempts made to wake him up without being successful?
I dont think that the initiator of this thread is giving us the full story
Did he take a sleeping pill ?
Were attempts made to wake him up without being successful?
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I hadn't taken a sleeping pill (I never do). The a/c lands in Bangkok at lunchtime and I had a business meeting in Hong Kong that evening, so no alcohol either. The crew never once claimed that they had attempted to wake me up and I refused.
Why would I give crew a mouthful for waking me up to buckle up? Everyone gets woken to put their seat upright and buckle up. We've all been woken up before. Remember, this is is the same crew who think I should be grateful..... And even if I did give them a mouthful, safety first, comfort second.
Why would I give crew a mouthful for waking me up to buckle up? Everyone gets woken to put their seat upright and buckle up. We've all been woken up before. Remember, this is is the same crew who think I should be grateful..... And even if I did give them a mouthful, safety first, comfort second.
Last edited by WifeIsAPilot; 20th Jul 2013 at 15:44.
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I wonder what all you "you sound pompous" twits would say had the OP had their face smashed in, or whatever, because the CC failed to ensure that the cabin was secure. That's their job by the way.
The CC have a duty of care, they failed, end of...luckily.
The CC have a duty of care, they failed, end of...luckily.
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Check In
When pax check in in their luggage, their brains,sense of personal responsibility and common sense are checked in with it.
With reduced Crew complements it is impossible to provide personalized service for each passenger
Every time I read of severe turbulence and the injuries sustained by pax not wearing their seat belts it is an indication of how pax ignore the warnings and direction of the long suffering CC.Whatever CC do they are viewed as being incorrect,wrong or simply not providing their duty of care
I still feel we are not being provided with the full facts here
With reduced Crew complements it is impossible to provide personalized service for each passenger
Every time I read of severe turbulence and the injuries sustained by pax not wearing their seat belts it is an indication of how pax ignore the warnings and direction of the long suffering CC.Whatever CC do they are viewed as being incorrect,wrong or simply not providing their duty of care
I still feel we are not being provided with the full facts here