BASSA start their hate campaign again
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BASSA start their hate campaign again
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AIN’T YOU JUST GLAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The foundations of any good relationship must be built on trust and mutual respect.
In the past the lack of trust and lack of respect has lead to a breakdown of relationships, creating a cycle of conflict. This very cycle lead the Union and its membership into one of the longest and most damaging disputes in UK industrial relations history. There are casualties in all wars. Unfortunately, ALL of the casualties of the previous dispute happened to be on one side.
A so-called wise man recently said, “You change the people, or you change the people”. It has not gone unnoticed that there has been no change to the IFCE structure, the same protagonists are still in situ. With that said, you will not be surprised to know that any trust between Union and IFCE is rapidly ebbing away.
Unfortunately the attitude the Company adopted pre and during the dispute is alive and well. It would not be disingenuous to say that the relationship, at present, is in tatters….
During the recent bad weather we witnessed:
The Good:
Cabin Crew battled to get into the workplace. reps endeavored to work with the company to minimize disruption.
The Bad:
Flight Crew, insisting crew break their agreements, by leaving base one down, on more than one occasion. Both times, QRS crew were on their way the aircraft.
A flight pushing back from stand, already 3 mins out of hours, ending up completing an 18hour and 18minute duty day on a non long range sector (Industrial maximum being 16hours and 15minutes). Operations did nothing to prevent these breaches from happening.
Crew were not being told trips had been cancelled, not given hotel accommodation. We could go on…..
The Ugly:
IFCE have confirmed that Flight Crew and Operations can insist crew break THEIR agreements, due to customer needs, as and when is suits them.
Flight Crew Manager believes, that there are times when Flight Crew can insist on the cabin crew breaking agreements. As he calls it “…being flexible, for the benefit of customers…”. This in turn begs the question, when do we ever see Flight Crew breaking their agreements for the benefit of the customer?
This attitude does little to enhance and improve the relationship between Cabin Crew and Flight Crew.
Manager of Duty Operations has refused the offer to meet with the Union to address these issues, face to face. The Union will be meeting the company on the Monday of next week, addressing all of these points.
One main fundamental principle of the 2011 settlement is as follows:
“Honouring current and future agreements – Both parties acknowledge the importance of honouring agreements and are committed to working together to collectively agreed arrangements.”
Fighting for our principles cost our leading reps and many of our crew their livelihoods, their relationships, and creating hardship and heartache that some will struggle to ever get over.
We sometimes need to reflect and remind ourselves what the dispute was for. The answer is simple. To secure our future working conditions, and jobs. We must insist all within BA recognize and commit to working to, and within, our collectively negotiated agreements.
Without that commitment, we simply become Mixed Fleet.
In closing, let it be clear:
We have the Disruption and Exceptional Circumstances agreements. Both these collective agreements are in place to facilitate exactly what they say. These agreements have a protocol, which involves your senior reps.
Our collective agreements are NOT to be broken at the whim of Flight Crew or IFCE. This intimidation and breaching of our collective agreements has to be stopped!
The membership has insisted on a Special Branch Meeting to address Flight Deck Intimidation.
We will also use that opportunity to address any issues relating to breaking of agreements you may have.
It is clear that IFCE are not recognizing how serious these issues have become.
The date of this meeting is still to be announced.
Absolute power
“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
Lord Acton - historian and moralist -1887
Though the cabin crew dispute ended two years ago, the magnitude of its impact will likely shape the landscape of our working lives for many years to come.
In particular, the decision to use our pilot colleagues (and their willingness to be used), as a primary weapon against cabin crew during the dispute will have ramifications that will live on in many peoples’ memory.
Captains were empowered as demi-gods and some took that to the nth degree, waging what they perceived to be a war against supposed cabin crew “militancy”. The problem now is that the war is over, but some don't want to admit it.
Of the nearly one hundred sacked and suspended crew cases, the majority involved pilots. Though most those cases have now been resolved through the settlement, a handful still remain outstanding.
One poor crewmember, through the unfortunate timing of his case, was not included in the settlement review. His tribunal is next week. He was sacked, in essence, for arguing with a Captain down-route in a bar. The Captain concerned forced himself into a conversation uninvited, and became so belligerent that the security staff asked him to leave the bar, and yet it was the cabin crewmember that was sacked.
Airways took their usual pious position that that the Captain was somehow subject to “bullying and harassment”, yet perversely, the crewmember concerned was not. God forbid anybody disagrees or has a different opinion to a Captain, because we no longer have the right to an opinion or to free speech in a bar whilst not even on duty.
One of the purposes of pubs and bars for hundreds of years has been to allow people to talk and share opinions! People able to meet, drink, discuss and yes, even argue their points of view?
In recent months we have had the following incidents.
A captain harangued and humiliated a CSD, reducing her to tears on the T5 shuttle, because he took exception to the uniform approved union luggage tag. Reported to IFCE and Flight Crew Management – No action taken.
A Captain offloaded a CSD from the flight because the CSD declined to shake hands. Reported to IFCE and Flight Crew Management – No action taken.
A Captain refused to wait for a QRS, insisting the aircraft doors be closed and the crew operate one short (obviously without payment). Reported to IFCE and Flight Crew Management- the response received was that they believe that the captain was within his rights to override crews’ agreements if, in his opinion, there was a need to do so - No action taken.
Oh and the best, let’s leave that until last.
Most crew will remember the furor that happened when a Singapore and Hong Kong flights were subbed to mixed fleet under work transfer because of a delay situation, (an agreement to prevents this happening again was subsequently reached with IFCE). What is not as widely known is what happened when that flight reached Hong Kong. During the down route slip it is alleged a First Officer decided to take exception to a legacy crewmember sharing a few words of polite conversation with a mixed fleet colleague whilst both were waiting for the elevator in the Excelsior hotel. It was a perfectly friendly and innocent conversation, yet the First Officer of the flight decided it wasn't and took it upon himself to try and assault and threaten the legacy crewmember, having to be restrained by hotel security staff.
Yet this wasn't the end of the situation.
Reports then show that it was alleged that the First Officer then forced his way into the lift that the terrified crewmember was using, trying to return to their room. He then chased him down the hotel corridor and punched him repeatedly in the face in an unprovoked and vicious assault on the completely innocent victim.
Obviously with our airline’s zero tolerance approach to bullying and harassment and such a clear open and shut case, we can all rest easy knowing that the perpetrator would have been dealt with appropriately and would no longer be in a position to assault any further victims.
Err, well no, not quite.
After all, the aggressor was flight crew and some have taken the tacit nod of approval to behave like feudal lords literally. He was of course promptly and swiftly dealt with, but not perhaps as you would have expected - he suffered, wait for it, (queue drum roll) a dip in seniority!
Incredible, but true.
The result was revealed in the same week as IFCE wanted to suspend a CSD with a blemish free record and charge them with “Gross misconduct” and “bringing the airline into dispute” for simply forgetting to declare a sandwich in their cabin bag at US customs.
Sad but true. There cannot have been a more staggering display of dual standards and sheer hypocrisy in the way people employed by British Airways are treated.
Oh and the punch line?
It appears that the very same First Officer that punched an innocent crewmember in this unprovoked attack has allegedly subsequently assaulted a First Class passenger during a positioning duty upon his return to flying. Everyone involved must be very proud.
Amongst our pilot colleagues there are some incredibly decent, professional and genuinely inspiring role models, individuals who are a credit to the uniform and if they are reading this we apologise if you feel unjustly maligned. That is not our intention, but unfortunately there remains a minority that are simply bullies, abusing their position of power. Until there is a willingness to address this problem, cabin crew will be far more likely to “bug” a pilot than “hug” one, and the divide that exists will only widen.
The shortsightedness of these decisions mean that the ill-feeling and mistrust that was forged during the dispute lives on and makes it that little bit harder to forget and/or forgive, and no amount of contrived courses or hiding behind sham policy will alter that fact.
As is the theme in George Orwell’s acclaimed novel, Animal Farm, “all animals are equal but some it appears are more equal than others”.
As long as that remains the case, there will never be a relationship of mutual respect; only one of an unhealthy (for our customers and us) enforced subservience. Crew may smile and say the right things onboard the aircraft but our thoughts remain our own and we all know what they are.
They have made their proverbial bed and they can lie in it - and that is what probably rankles the most, because nobody will join them in it anymore!
Irish bar at six anyone… Anyone... anyone?
On Monday, 28th January there is to be a trial of an A380 crew briefing and the time it takes for that crew to get through security at CRC.
There will be representatives from IFCE observing the trial, plus random crew selected from 24hour availability, taking the role of the cabin crew. The union requested to have a representative present, to get an overview from the members’ perspective, embracing the ‘working together’ ethic.
The one previous occasion that this trial took place, the union rep was asked to take the role of the CSD, which we complied with. The rep fed back, stating that it was virtually impossible to be objective about the briefing, when it was they themselves taking the briefing.
When speaking with one of IFCE’s trialling team yesterday, it became apparent that they were again expecting the union rep to take the role of the CSD. We explained that we wanted to be part of the trialling process, but in the same capacity as IFCE’s representatives, as an observer.
Within half an hour the situation was escalated to a Senior Industrial Relations Manager, stated that if the rep refused to take the role of the CSD then another CSD would be called from 24hr, the invite for the union to attend would be withdrawn.
The union were not permitted to be involved in the “Eatless” onboard service trials, despite several requests. It seems that when we do get invited to be involved, IFCE want to dictate the terms of the union involvement in trials, in an apparent attempt to assert power and control.
AIN’T YOU JUST GLAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The foundations of any good relationship must be built on trust and mutual respect.
In the past the lack of trust and lack of respect has lead to a breakdown of relationships, creating a cycle of conflict. This very cycle lead the Union and its membership into one of the longest and most damaging disputes in UK industrial relations history. There are casualties in all wars. Unfortunately, ALL of the casualties of the previous dispute happened to be on one side.
A so-called wise man recently said, “You change the people, or you change the people”. It has not gone unnoticed that there has been no change to the IFCE structure, the same protagonists are still in situ. With that said, you will not be surprised to know that any trust between Union and IFCE is rapidly ebbing away.
Unfortunately the attitude the Company adopted pre and during the dispute is alive and well. It would not be disingenuous to say that the relationship, at present, is in tatters….
During the recent bad weather we witnessed:
The Good:
Cabin Crew battled to get into the workplace. reps endeavored to work with the company to minimize disruption.
The Bad:
Flight Crew, insisting crew break their agreements, by leaving base one down, on more than one occasion. Both times, QRS crew were on their way the aircraft.
A flight pushing back from stand, already 3 mins out of hours, ending up completing an 18hour and 18minute duty day on a non long range sector (Industrial maximum being 16hours and 15minutes). Operations did nothing to prevent these breaches from happening.
Crew were not being told trips had been cancelled, not given hotel accommodation. We could go on…..
The Ugly:
IFCE have confirmed that Flight Crew and Operations can insist crew break THEIR agreements, due to customer needs, as and when is suits them.
Flight Crew Manager believes, that there are times when Flight Crew can insist on the cabin crew breaking agreements. As he calls it “…being flexible, for the benefit of customers…”. This in turn begs the question, when do we ever see Flight Crew breaking their agreements for the benefit of the customer?
This attitude does little to enhance and improve the relationship between Cabin Crew and Flight Crew.
Manager of Duty Operations has refused the offer to meet with the Union to address these issues, face to face. The Union will be meeting the company on the Monday of next week, addressing all of these points.
One main fundamental principle of the 2011 settlement is as follows:
“Honouring current and future agreements – Both parties acknowledge the importance of honouring agreements and are committed to working together to collectively agreed arrangements.”
Fighting for our principles cost our leading reps and many of our crew their livelihoods, their relationships, and creating hardship and heartache that some will struggle to ever get over.
We sometimes need to reflect and remind ourselves what the dispute was for. The answer is simple. To secure our future working conditions, and jobs. We must insist all within BA recognize and commit to working to, and within, our collectively negotiated agreements.
Without that commitment, we simply become Mixed Fleet.
In closing, let it be clear:
We have the Disruption and Exceptional Circumstances agreements. Both these collective agreements are in place to facilitate exactly what they say. These agreements have a protocol, which involves your senior reps.
Our collective agreements are NOT to be broken at the whim of Flight Crew or IFCE. This intimidation and breaching of our collective agreements has to be stopped!
The membership has insisted on a Special Branch Meeting to address Flight Deck Intimidation.
We will also use that opportunity to address any issues relating to breaking of agreements you may have.
It is clear that IFCE are not recognizing how serious these issues have become.
The date of this meeting is still to be announced.
Absolute power
“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
Lord Acton - historian and moralist -1887
Though the cabin crew dispute ended two years ago, the magnitude of its impact will likely shape the landscape of our working lives for many years to come.
In particular, the decision to use our pilot colleagues (and their willingness to be used), as a primary weapon against cabin crew during the dispute will have ramifications that will live on in many peoples’ memory.
Captains were empowered as demi-gods and some took that to the nth degree, waging what they perceived to be a war against supposed cabin crew “militancy”. The problem now is that the war is over, but some don't want to admit it.
Of the nearly one hundred sacked and suspended crew cases, the majority involved pilots. Though most those cases have now been resolved through the settlement, a handful still remain outstanding.
One poor crewmember, through the unfortunate timing of his case, was not included in the settlement review. His tribunal is next week. He was sacked, in essence, for arguing with a Captain down-route in a bar. The Captain concerned forced himself into a conversation uninvited, and became so belligerent that the security staff asked him to leave the bar, and yet it was the cabin crewmember that was sacked.
Airways took their usual pious position that that the Captain was somehow subject to “bullying and harassment”, yet perversely, the crewmember concerned was not. God forbid anybody disagrees or has a different opinion to a Captain, because we no longer have the right to an opinion or to free speech in a bar whilst not even on duty.
One of the purposes of pubs and bars for hundreds of years has been to allow people to talk and share opinions! People able to meet, drink, discuss and yes, even argue their points of view?
In recent months we have had the following incidents.
A captain harangued and humiliated a CSD, reducing her to tears on the T5 shuttle, because he took exception to the uniform approved union luggage tag. Reported to IFCE and Flight Crew Management – No action taken.
A Captain offloaded a CSD from the flight because the CSD declined to shake hands. Reported to IFCE and Flight Crew Management – No action taken.
A Captain refused to wait for a QRS, insisting the aircraft doors be closed and the crew operate one short (obviously without payment). Reported to IFCE and Flight Crew Management- the response received was that they believe that the captain was within his rights to override crews’ agreements if, in his opinion, there was a need to do so - No action taken.
Oh and the best, let’s leave that until last.
Most crew will remember the furor that happened when a Singapore and Hong Kong flights were subbed to mixed fleet under work transfer because of a delay situation, (an agreement to prevents this happening again was subsequently reached with IFCE). What is not as widely known is what happened when that flight reached Hong Kong. During the down route slip it is alleged a First Officer decided to take exception to a legacy crewmember sharing a few words of polite conversation with a mixed fleet colleague whilst both were waiting for the elevator in the Excelsior hotel. It was a perfectly friendly and innocent conversation, yet the First Officer of the flight decided it wasn't and took it upon himself to try and assault and threaten the legacy crewmember, having to be restrained by hotel security staff.
Yet this wasn't the end of the situation.
Reports then show that it was alleged that the First Officer then forced his way into the lift that the terrified crewmember was using, trying to return to their room. He then chased him down the hotel corridor and punched him repeatedly in the face in an unprovoked and vicious assault on the completely innocent victim.
Obviously with our airline’s zero tolerance approach to bullying and harassment and such a clear open and shut case, we can all rest easy knowing that the perpetrator would have been dealt with appropriately and would no longer be in a position to assault any further victims.
Err, well no, not quite.
After all, the aggressor was flight crew and some have taken the tacit nod of approval to behave like feudal lords literally. He was of course promptly and swiftly dealt with, but not perhaps as you would have expected - he suffered, wait for it, (queue drum roll) a dip in seniority!
Incredible, but true.
The result was revealed in the same week as IFCE wanted to suspend a CSD with a blemish free record and charge them with “Gross misconduct” and “bringing the airline into dispute” for simply forgetting to declare a sandwich in their cabin bag at US customs.
Sad but true. There cannot have been a more staggering display of dual standards and sheer hypocrisy in the way people employed by British Airways are treated.
Oh and the punch line?
It appears that the very same First Officer that punched an innocent crewmember in this unprovoked attack has allegedly subsequently assaulted a First Class passenger during a positioning duty upon his return to flying. Everyone involved must be very proud.
Amongst our pilot colleagues there are some incredibly decent, professional and genuinely inspiring role models, individuals who are a credit to the uniform and if they are reading this we apologise if you feel unjustly maligned. That is not our intention, but unfortunately there remains a minority that are simply bullies, abusing their position of power. Until there is a willingness to address this problem, cabin crew will be far more likely to “bug” a pilot than “hug” one, and the divide that exists will only widen.
The shortsightedness of these decisions mean that the ill-feeling and mistrust that was forged during the dispute lives on and makes it that little bit harder to forget and/or forgive, and no amount of contrived courses or hiding behind sham policy will alter that fact.
As is the theme in George Orwell’s acclaimed novel, Animal Farm, “all animals are equal but some it appears are more equal than others”.
As long as that remains the case, there will never be a relationship of mutual respect; only one of an unhealthy (for our customers and us) enforced subservience. Crew may smile and say the right things onboard the aircraft but our thoughts remain our own and we all know what they are.
They have made their proverbial bed and they can lie in it - and that is what probably rankles the most, because nobody will join them in it anymore!
Irish bar at six anyone… Anyone... anyone?
On Monday, 28th January there is to be a trial of an A380 crew briefing and the time it takes for that crew to get through security at CRC.
There will be representatives from IFCE observing the trial, plus random crew selected from 24hour availability, taking the role of the cabin crew. The union requested to have a representative present, to get an overview from the members’ perspective, embracing the ‘working together’ ethic.
The one previous occasion that this trial took place, the union rep was asked to take the role of the CSD, which we complied with. The rep fed back, stating that it was virtually impossible to be objective about the briefing, when it was they themselves taking the briefing.
When speaking with one of IFCE’s trialling team yesterday, it became apparent that they were again expecting the union rep to take the role of the CSD. We explained that we wanted to be part of the trialling process, but in the same capacity as IFCE’s representatives, as an observer.
Within half an hour the situation was escalated to a Senior Industrial Relations Manager, stated that if the rep refused to take the role of the CSD then another CSD would be called from 24hr, the invite for the union to attend would be withdrawn.
The union were not permitted to be involved in the “Eatless” onboard service trials, despite several requests. It seems that when we do get invited to be involved, IFCE want to dictate the terms of the union involvement in trials, in an apparent attempt to assert power and control.
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Lucky escape
When reading the post above by Alpha69 I just thank my luck that I don't have to work in that poisonous atmosphere that some parts of BA have become.
The treatment that a cabin crew member that left the airline I work for to join BA was the very worst kind of personal abusive and harassment that I have ever seen......... And this was quite clearly being orchestrated by members of BASSA.
I won't go into any detail as I don't want to see a repeat of this intimidation but I never again want to see anyone put under such pressure resulting from workplace bullying and abuse.
The only thing that I can hope for is that the old guard in BA cabin crew wake up and smell the coffee, this might result in ALL staff in BA starting to enjoy the type of working atmosphere of mutual respect and cooperation that pervades in all the airlines that I have worked for.
On a personal note I left BA and found a lack of job security and worse T&C'S but I can go to work know that there will be an atmosphere of respect, cooperation and friendliness, that for me is worth far more than the extra money that working for BA would provide.
The treatment that a cabin crew member that left the airline I work for to join BA was the very worst kind of personal abusive and harassment that I have ever seen......... And this was quite clearly being orchestrated by members of BASSA.
I won't go into any detail as I don't want to see a repeat of this intimidation but I never again want to see anyone put under such pressure resulting from workplace bullying and abuse.
The only thing that I can hope for is that the old guard in BA cabin crew wake up and smell the coffee, this might result in ALL staff in BA starting to enjoy the type of working atmosphere of mutual respect and cooperation that pervades in all the airlines that I have worked for.
On a personal note I left BA and found a lack of job security and worse T&C'S but I can go to work know that there will be an atmosphere of respect, cooperation and friendliness, that for me is worth far more than the extra money that working for BA would provide.
Junior trash
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Strangely, since BASSA started this latest campaign the WW crews I've flown with have been exceptionally friendly and sociable.
I wonder if this has been a step too far for the bonkers BASSA leadership? The bullying pilot simply isn't in most of their members experience so making a big fuss about it just shows the average member how out of touch the leaders are.
BASSA speak for about 500 people. It's about time the other 9000 odd spoke up for themselves.
I wonder if this has been a step too far for the bonkers BASSA leadership? The bullying pilot simply isn't in most of their members experience so making a big fuss about it just shows the average member how out of touch the leaders are.
BASSA speak for about 500 people. It's about time the other 9000 odd spoke up for themselves.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 7th Feb 2013 at 06:26.
I don't think people outside of BA actually understand fully the bile and bitterness that eminates from BASSA and in particular DH.
What they never mention in their instructions to cabin crew never to break any rule even by the tiniest margin is how, probably in the past now, they break every rule in the book to suit themselves.
Going on a 'trial' or 'hotel inspection' on First Class duty tickets and taking two weeks holiday before returning on same FC duty ticket.
Pursers and Grade one reps using the CSD duty travel priority to obtain First tickets on the basis of being able to join Managers in that cabin.
Attending meetings then changing into uniform to go on a lucrative trip, SIN/SYDNEY for instance that evening.
Claiming extra leave for banked days where they have attended meetings and then taking blocks of a month or six weeks at a time.
Using the deroster system to facilitate their own life at home even running businesses.
And much more. However I don't believe that since the dispute BA have been quite so generous.
What they never mention in their instructions to cabin crew never to break any rule even by the tiniest margin is how, probably in the past now, they break every rule in the book to suit themselves.
Going on a 'trial' or 'hotel inspection' on First Class duty tickets and taking two weeks holiday before returning on same FC duty ticket.
Pursers and Grade one reps using the CSD duty travel priority to obtain First tickets on the basis of being able to join Managers in that cabin.
Attending meetings then changing into uniform to go on a lucrative trip, SIN/SYDNEY for instance that evening.
Claiming extra leave for banked days where they have attended meetings and then taking blocks of a month or six weeks at a time.
Using the deroster system to facilitate their own life at home even running businesses.
And much more. However I don't believe that since the dispute BA have been quite so generous.
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In all honesty - this all seems quite pathetic.
The title of this thread is "BASSA start their hate campaign again".
However, judging by the emails that have been copied and pasted above - it appears that there has already been a campaign happening against them and their own people and they are now responding - or am I missing something here?
Now reading the few posts that have already been made on this thread by people who would appear to be British Airways Pilots and employees - I would suggest you all be very careful.
More than one of the posts are verging on being libellous and given the prominent case of one of your own who attempted to take BASSA or UNITE whichever it was to court for similar statements I would urge caution.
It seems this thread serves no purpose but to stoke up another round of PPruners bashing BASSA and certain individuals.
Out of interest and if one of you would be so kind to answer - if any of these allegations are true, the ones about the Pilots bullying the crew's - what would your own thoughts be?
The title of this thread is "BASSA start their hate campaign again".
However, judging by the emails that have been copied and pasted above - it appears that there has already been a campaign happening against them and their own people and they are now responding - or am I missing something here?
Now reading the few posts that have already been made on this thread by people who would appear to be British Airways Pilots and employees - I would suggest you all be very careful.
More than one of the posts are verging on being libellous and given the prominent case of one of your own who attempted to take BASSA or UNITE whichever it was to court for similar statements I would urge caution.
It seems this thread serves no purpose but to stoke up another round of PPruners bashing BASSA and certain individuals.
Out of interest and if one of you would be so kind to answer - if any of these allegations are true, the ones about the Pilots bullying the crew's - what would your own thoughts be?
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One thing that strikes me from the BASSA communication is that they believe their members are equal in authority to Flight Deck.
Quite simply they are not, it is not a democracy. The Captain (Commander) is in charge and has the final authority regarding the flight.
As such, if he in consultation with operations (on the ground) believes it is in the company's interest to depart with one crew member down.. Then so be it!
Likewise with the issues of discretion, the Captain is the one who makes that decision.
BASSA need to stop feeding their members this BS!
Quite simply they are not, it is not a democracy. The Captain (Commander) is in charge and has the final authority regarding the flight.
As such, if he in consultation with operations (on the ground) believes it is in the company's interest to depart with one crew member down.. Then so be it!
Likewise with the issues of discretion, the Captain is the one who makes that decision.
BASSA need to stop feeding their members this BS!
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PT6A,
You are quite correct. In fact the ANO mentions very little about cabin crew members apart from the minimum numbers required. That is not meant to be demeaning in any way, it is simply a fact.
It does however lay down the responsibilities of the aircraft commander and these are then further enshrined in the operators AOC.
Further denoted in the AOC is the commanders requirement to uphold the operating standards of the crew for the flight. From the Co-Pilot down through the chain of command to the junior crew member. Thus the Captain is responsible for everything that occurs on the flight from push back to parking and engines off.
Feedback, constructive critisism, interest in the service etc.. are seen by a tiny minority of die hard BASSA members (600 turned up out of curiosity, probably less than 50 were actual believers!) as bullying and harrassment.
It is the responsibility of the Captain to point out shortcomings in the service if there is any or shortcomings in the routine as laid down by the operator. E.g. 30 minute checks not being reported, equipment used in the cabin without being reported etc. etc. etc.
For this tiny minority these things are interference and bullying. It is sometimes remeniscent of an episode of 'Grange Hill' (for those of you old enough to remember it!)
I would like to stress that these people are a minority and, for the past year or so, the level of service, friendliness and enjoyment of WW has increased month upon month. Don't let the bad apples spoilt the barrel. It's exactly what poisonous trolls like DH want.
You are quite correct. In fact the ANO mentions very little about cabin crew members apart from the minimum numbers required. That is not meant to be demeaning in any way, it is simply a fact.
It does however lay down the responsibilities of the aircraft commander and these are then further enshrined in the operators AOC.
Further denoted in the AOC is the commanders requirement to uphold the operating standards of the crew for the flight. From the Co-Pilot down through the chain of command to the junior crew member. Thus the Captain is responsible for everything that occurs on the flight from push back to parking and engines off.
Feedback, constructive critisism, interest in the service etc.. are seen by a tiny minority of die hard BASSA members (600 turned up out of curiosity, probably less than 50 were actual believers!) as bullying and harrassment.
It is the responsibility of the Captain to point out shortcomings in the service if there is any or shortcomings in the routine as laid down by the operator. E.g. 30 minute checks not being reported, equipment used in the cabin without being reported etc. etc. etc.
For this tiny minority these things are interference and bullying. It is sometimes remeniscent of an episode of 'Grange Hill' (for those of you old enough to remember it!)
I would like to stress that these people are a minority and, for the past year or so, the level of service, friendliness and enjoyment of WW has increased month upon month. Don't let the bad apples spoilt the barrel. It's exactly what poisonous trolls like DH want.
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Wirbelstrum, the points you have made are exactly what I have been led to believe.
Cabin Crew in general get on with their job and there is (as always will be) a small minority who will disagree.
However after having a chat with a former colleague, my understanding is that there is also a small minority on both sides of the cockpit door who seem unable to let things go. Hence this latest flurry of accusation and allegation.
The copied email above refers to around 100 incidents during the dispute, mainly involving Pilots who complained that they were the victims of bullying and harassment.
My understanding, from a phone call with a former colleague who went along to the recent meeting, is that there are around 20 incidents which have been formally reported to British Airways by Cabin Crew members ref Flight Crew bullying. Around a fifth of the total made by Pilots against Cabin Crew during the dispute. However when you look at the numbers involved it roughly works out the same in percentage terms.
I guess the point I am trying to get across is that the vast majority of people are getting on with the job whilst a small minority on both sides seem to be intent on prolonging the agony!
Cabin Crew in general get on with their job and there is (as always will be) a small minority who will disagree.
However after having a chat with a former colleague, my understanding is that there is also a small minority on both sides of the cockpit door who seem unable to let things go. Hence this latest flurry of accusation and allegation.
The copied email above refers to around 100 incidents during the dispute, mainly involving Pilots who complained that they were the victims of bullying and harassment.
My understanding, from a phone call with a former colleague who went along to the recent meeting, is that there are around 20 incidents which have been formally reported to British Airways by Cabin Crew members ref Flight Crew bullying. Around a fifth of the total made by Pilots against Cabin Crew during the dispute. However when you look at the numbers involved it roughly works out the same in percentage terms.
I guess the point I am trying to get across is that the vast majority of people are getting on with the job whilst a small minority on both sides seem to be intent on prolonging the agony!
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The_Fonz_Is_Cool
Absoloutly correct. There is no place for bullying in any workplace.
It is a minority. Mainly the complaints come from those who wish to make a complaint and will engineer any situation into something thay can take grievance with.
Hence, my advice for both sides of the cockpit door, would be that if something looks to get contencious then get witnesses and ensure that those witnesses are prepared to brief the company if required.
There are always two sides to any story.
It is also a requirement of the Captain to provide feedback to the crew for any flight be it positive or negative. Unfortunately there are some individuals who cannot take negative feed back and there are some Captains who deliver negative feedback in a slightly overbearing manner. Neither cases constitute bullying or harrassment, purely interpersonal skills.
Enjoy.
Absoloutly correct. There is no place for bullying in any workplace.
It is a minority. Mainly the complaints come from those who wish to make a complaint and will engineer any situation into something thay can take grievance with.
Hence, my advice for both sides of the cockpit door, would be that if something looks to get contencious then get witnesses and ensure that those witnesses are prepared to brief the company if required.
There are always two sides to any story.
It is also a requirement of the Captain to provide feedback to the crew for any flight be it positive or negative. Unfortunately there are some individuals who cannot take negative feed back and there are some Captains who deliver negative feedback in a slightly overbearing manner. Neither cases constitute bullying or harrassment, purely interpersonal skills.
Enjoy.
As an outsider, each side need to deal with this as soon as possible. BA is not the only airlines for passengers. With the continuous expansion of Emirates, Eithiad and Qatar to name but a few, BA and its parent IAG is going to fall further behind and with the recession continuing and the inexorable rise of 'low cost' operators, it cannot afford to keep having industrial relation problems.
The recent problems at Heathrow are an example of BA not being able to operate, add industrial action to that and you have chaos. I as a frequent air travellers would put BA at the bottom of my list as I cannot trust its reliability, in fact I have speculatively booked a long haul holiday, specifying Emirates.
Is this starting off again in any way connected with the speculation that there will be redundancies at Iberia, the other arm of IAG, so providing a pincer action of industrial disputes.
The recent problems at Heathrow are an example of BA not being able to operate, add industrial action to that and you have chaos. I as a frequent air travellers would put BA at the bottom of my list as I cannot trust its reliability, in fact I have speculatively booked a long haul holiday, specifying Emirates.
Is this starting off again in any way connected with the speculation that there will be redundancies at Iberia, the other arm of IAG, so providing a pincer action of industrial disputes.
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Dear The_Fonz,
"However, judging by the emails that have been copied and pasted above..."
Sadly what you have read is part of an orchestrated campaign to stir up antagonism between crew who mostly work well together. It would be a mistake to make any judgement purely on the propaganda issued by one side, especially one with such a history, and if you don't know the history then you cannot make any judgement.
Bullying & Harrassment is wrong and is condemned by everyone I know in my Big airline, but sadly some in the cabin think being told to comply with company procedures (especially by a Pilot) is bullying and being censured for misbehaviour by a manager is Harassment.
Fortunately it appears that many have had enough of this, hence the frantic attempts to stir it up again as indicated by the first posting.
"However, judging by the emails that have been copied and pasted above..."
Sadly what you have read is part of an orchestrated campaign to stir up antagonism between crew who mostly work well together. It would be a mistake to make any judgement purely on the propaganda issued by one side, especially one with such a history, and if you don't know the history then you cannot make any judgement.
Bullying & Harrassment is wrong and is condemned by everyone I know in my Big airline, but sadly some in the cabin think being told to comply with company procedures (especially by a Pilot) is bullying and being censured for misbehaviour by a manager is Harassment.
Fortunately it appears that many have had enough of this, hence the frantic attempts to stir it up again as indicated by the first posting.
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Ain't it always thus?
Sadly what you have read is part of an orchestrated campaign to stir up antagonism between crew who mostly work well together. It would be a mistake to make any judgement purely on the propaganda issued by one side, especially one with such a history, and if you don't know the history then you cannot make any judgement.
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Thankfully, I am no longer a member of BASSA and thoroughly enjoy not having my inbox bombarded with this utter rubbish.
I am, thankfully, one of the people able to speak for myself. Having suffered immensely at the hands of "the 50" (or so) who believe every little letter that is uttered by the DH types who think they are in control of things, I enjoy working with like minded colleagues, be they either side of the FD door...
In fact, on my trip on Christmas Day, not a single CC member wanted to do anything at all, so I spent my time down route with 3 delightful FD colleagues, and had a great time...
I am, quite frankly, stunned that DH is even allowed to start spouting all this again.
I am, thankfully, one of the people able to speak for myself. Having suffered immensely at the hands of "the 50" (or so) who believe every little letter that is uttered by the DH types who think they are in control of things, I enjoy working with like minded colleagues, be they either side of the FD door...
In fact, on my trip on Christmas Day, not a single CC member wanted to do anything at all, so I spent my time down route with 3 delightful FD colleagues, and had a great time...
I am, quite frankly, stunned that DH is even allowed to start spouting all this again.
What I can't understand is why that bitter and twisted individual just doesn't get a life!
When working, and I use that term loosely, he strutted around looking unkempt with long dishevelled hair and scruffy shoes and jeans.
He was a total stranger to cabin service never getting on an aircraft, which of course, was his final demise.
Because the members subs provided him with an extremely high income he had no need to work for BA.
I once heard an interview on local radio with a wealthy 'local business man' who was bidding in a auction for a medal won by a Southampton player he stated he would be willing to pay a considerable sum to obtain it.
Well you can probably guess who this 'wealthy' individual was.......
He appears on this forum and others under a series of psudonyms and spouts utter rubbish.
I guess he is still encouraged by the like minded Luddites in Unite.
When working, and I use that term loosely, he strutted around looking unkempt with long dishevelled hair and scruffy shoes and jeans.
He was a total stranger to cabin service never getting on an aircraft, which of course, was his final demise.
Because the members subs provided him with an extremely high income he had no need to work for BA.
I once heard an interview on local radio with a wealthy 'local business man' who was bidding in a auction for a medal won by a Southampton player he stated he would be willing to pay a considerable sum to obtain it.
Well you can probably guess who this 'wealthy' individual was.......
He appears on this forum and others under a series of psudonyms and spouts utter rubbish.
I guess he is still encouraged by the like minded Luddites in Unite.
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I don't understand how Unite allow their name to be used in such communication by this man... Surely they should be trying to protect their "brand" and name from such use.
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I wonder if he will be commenting on the latest story.
British Airways crew in boozed-up rampage on a flight | The Sun |News
British Airways crew in boozed-up rampage on a flight | The Sun |News
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I would imagine not... Or, if he does, it will probably be to try and negate any behaviour, which is, if true, completely unacceptable and these people will just end up ruining, which is at the end of the day, a privilege for us to position in Club.
Well if it a 'Legacy' crew he will blame the evil management, the flight crew, the French for producing strong champagne and the other customers for complaining.
If it is MF he will blame all of the above plus WW for employing them.....
If it is MF he will blame all of the above plus WW for employing them.....