Name and shame
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
Name and shame
Way back in 2012, August, I flew with US Air from Heathrow to Philadelphia.
The seatbelt sign was on the entire way. At first, we thought there was probably turbulence ahead. But no such thing. `None at all at all. After a while, as it was more than human bladders could stand people got up regardless and used the loos.
Being an old busybody, and a private pilot, I happened to see the flight crew in the terminal, (we had met and chatted nicely in LHR). So I tackled the first officer and asked why they had kept the seatbelt sign on for the whole trip.
He said THAT THE CABIN CREW HAD REQUESTED IT so that they could more easily deal with service. I said that sounded like a terrible idea to me because it ended up with the pax disregarding the sign. He said that most US airlines do the same.......
What are your thoughts on this?
The seatbelt sign was on the entire way. At first, we thought there was probably turbulence ahead. But no such thing. `None at all at all. After a while, as it was more than human bladders could stand people got up regardless and used the loos.
Being an old busybody, and a private pilot, I happened to see the flight crew in the terminal, (we had met and chatted nicely in LHR). So I tackled the first officer and asked why they had kept the seatbelt sign on for the whole trip.
He said THAT THE CABIN CREW HAD REQUESTED IT so that they could more easily deal with service. I said that sounded like a terrible idea to me because it ended up with the pax disregarding the sign. He said that most US airlines do the same.......
What are your thoughts on this?
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Europe
I´ve heard many different explanations for this (supposed) American seatbelt habit. Covering any legal liability in case of possible pax injuries is another one.
If it works for American carriers, what business is it of ours anyway?
On our flights to and from the USA it only takes one single PA to explain to the pax that the captain actually expects and requires everybody to obey the FSB when it is on, and that it will be switched off as soon as possible for everybody´s convenience.
People are not dumb, they understand most things when explained in a clear and friendly manner.
That´s my thoughts on the matter.
If it works for American carriers, what business is it of ours anyway?
On our flights to and from the USA it only takes one single PA to explain to the pax that the captain actually expects and requires everybody to obey the FSB when it is on, and that it will be switched off as soon as possible for everybody´s convenience.
People are not dumb, they understand most things when explained in a clear and friendly manner.
That´s my thoughts on the matter.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 634
Likes: 15
From: Europe
Very many US airlines can't be arsed with pesky pax roaming the aisles when they dish out manure from the trollies. So they ask the blokes up front to turn the FSB on, and noticing how wonderfully quite it all is conveniently forget to tell the cockpit they're done with the "service". They're rather indifferent to whether it's a 1 hour hop, a 6 hour transcon or a 12 hour jaunt across the ocean.
Afterwards they concoct stories about turbulence, or suspected turbulence, and what that fails to materialise it turns into stories about liability.
The well being of the passengers doesn't even enter into the equation.
Afterwards they concoct stories about turbulence, or suspected turbulence, and what that fails to materialise it turns into stories about liability.
The well being of the passengers doesn't even enter into the equation.
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: USA
I've been flying passengers for for 34 years. I am a pilot for a major American airline. I've never, not once, been asked by a flight attendant to turn on the seat belt sign to make it easier for them to perform passenger services. I have been asked to turn it on because the flight attendant thought it was too rough for passengers to be up.
Sometimes the light is left on because pilots can forget it is on after the air has smoothed out. I've done that; everyone has. I welcome any flight attendant to call and remind me that the light has been on and it seems pretty smooth. The typical first PA from the cockpit after takeoff will often include a request that passengers consider the flight attendants' efforts to provide service and plan their movements to best not interfere with their progress in doing so.
I think SMT Member's comments are uninformed. Passengers are not pesky; they put the bread on our tables and the huge majority of us try our best to treat them accordingly.
One key rule, though, is that if the aircraft is moving on the ground, and a passenger gets up, flight attendants must notify the pilots and the aircraft will be brought to a stop until the passenger is seated.
Above all, safety overrides everything. If there's ever a question, everyone decides in favor of safe.
Sometimes the light is left on because pilots can forget it is on after the air has smoothed out. I've done that; everyone has. I welcome any flight attendant to call and remind me that the light has been on and it seems pretty smooth. The typical first PA from the cockpit after takeoff will often include a request that passengers consider the flight attendants' efforts to provide service and plan their movements to best not interfere with their progress in doing so.
I think SMT Member's comments are uninformed. Passengers are not pesky; they put the bread on our tables and the huge majority of us try our best to treat them accordingly.
One key rule, though, is that if the aircraft is moving on the ground, and a passenger gets up, flight attendants must notify the pilots and the aircraft will be brought to a stop until the passenger is seated.
Above all, safety overrides everything. If there's ever a question, everyone decides in favor of safe.
Last edited by BenThere; 29th January 2013 at 23:59.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 889
Likes: 3
From: UK
I have to say that this does occur and not just on American carriers.
But for good reasons and as a temporary measure.
It was quite common on flights to and from Tel Aviv, as the customers on that route have a tendency to roam the aisles to see if anyone they know is on board. During meal services the cabin crew would ask for the seat belts to be on in order to at least get through the aisles with carts.
Prior to the 20minute call being standard it was common to ask FD to put signs on to prepare cabin in plenty of time for landing.
However I have never heard of it being left on for an entire Atlantic crossing in my opinion that would cause more problems than it would solve.
But for good reasons and as a temporary measure.
It was quite common on flights to and from Tel Aviv, as the customers on that route have a tendency to roam the aisles to see if anyone they know is on board. During meal services the cabin crew would ask for the seat belts to be on in order to at least get through the aisles with carts.
Prior to the 20minute call being standard it was common to ask FD to put signs on to prepare cabin in plenty of time for landing.
However I have never heard of it being left on for an entire Atlantic crossing in my opinion that would cause more problems than it would solve.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 543
Likes: 15
From: North West UK
It was quite common on flights to and from Tel Aviv, as the customers on that route have a tendency to roam the aisles to see if anyone they know is on board. During meal services the cabin crew would ask for the seat belts to be on in order to at least get through the aisles with carts.
On one Jet2 flight from MAN to TLV, I was asked by the flight attendant if I knew many of the passengers. I immediately replied that at least 50% were people who were either friends or good acquaintances and about 15% were people I recognised. No wonder people wander about, but making them sit makes me feel more relaxed as well.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
From: Delsey
I've just pax'ed LHR-DFW-LHR this week with an American carrier on a 772. Belts on all the way and not even light chop. Despite this, pax still up and opening overhead lockers etc, even on final approach. If the crew leaves the signs on all the time, how on earth do they expect to seat pax when they really need to? Crazy.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: Europe
I've flown from Australia through Asia, Europe and the USA and I have never in 20 years of flying seen a FSB light on for the entire trip, not once.
The idea that CC request it from the flight deck to make the service easier is just crass.
If this is the way you think, maybe next time you should drive yourself.
The idea that CC request it from the flight deck to make the service easier is just crass.
If this is the way you think, maybe next time you should drive yourself.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,362
Likes: 2
From: South of Old Warden
I was on a BA flt from LAX to LHR. We were landing at 1pm but the main cabin lights didn't go on 'til 11pm when an awful so called breakfast was served. I felt this was a ruse to keep the passengers seated and subdued for as long as possible.
Maybe it's normal operating procedure but it's not very pleasant sitting in semi-darkness at that hour of the day.
Maybe it's normal operating procedure but it's not very pleasant sitting in semi-darkness at that hour of the day.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 889
Likes: 3
From: UK
Well it's actually 0300 LAX time isn't it!
I can tell you from experience (lots of it) if the cabin crew put the lights on in the cabin based of the time at destination there would be a riot on board.
There will always be some people who don't sleep on flights but they watch the IFE or read a book. The majority want sleep so that they don't lose a day when they arrive because they are dead on their feet.
I can tell you from experience (lots of it) if the cabin crew put the lights on in the cabin based of the time at destination there would be a riot on board.
There will always be some people who don't sleep on flights but they watch the IFE or read a book. The majority want sleep so that they don't lose a day when they arrive because they are dead on their feet.
