Overhead Baggage anyone
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Surprised that few people are focussing on the safety aspect of all this.
1. US stats show that 4000 cabin crew injured annually either attempting to help pax shove bags into lockers or by same bags falling out on top of them. Injuries range from bumps and bruises to incapacity from broken bones and vertebrae.
2. IN turbulence, hard landings or emergencies passengers often injured by bins popping open as fuselage flexes and luggage raining down on them.
3. IN a crash tall people siiting in aisle seats are slightly more likely to get killed. Theory is they are subjected to rain of laptops, whiskey bottles and so forth striking their heads from behind.
4. Ten kilos is a tray of small beers, a bowling ball, etc. It's too much and the limit should be reduced to lightweight, soft items like coats and hats.
Where is the CAA, FAA in all this? Whenever I ask I'm told it's an airline decision and there is no safety limit.
1. US stats show that 4000 cabin crew injured annually either attempting to help pax shove bags into lockers or by same bags falling out on top of them. Injuries range from bumps and bruises to incapacity from broken bones and vertebrae.
2. IN turbulence, hard landings or emergencies passengers often injured by bins popping open as fuselage flexes and luggage raining down on them.
3. IN a crash tall people siiting in aisle seats are slightly more likely to get killed. Theory is they are subjected to rain of laptops, whiskey bottles and so forth striking their heads from behind.
4. Ten kilos is a tray of small beers, a bowling ball, etc. It's too much and the limit should be reduced to lightweight, soft items like coats and hats.
Where is the CAA, FAA in all this? Whenever I ask I'm told it's an airline decision and there is no safety limit.
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Interesting discussion. As SLF I have a couple of comments (hoping they won't incite a riot).
I agree with negative comments citing storage of emergency etc equipment in O/H lockers but the fault with this doesn't lie with the crew but with aircraft designers, who know the regulations about what needs to be carried and where and should design suitable spaces to accomodate this, obviating the need to take over the O/H bins, and with the airlines who make baggage allowance rules and then seem surprised when passengers take advantage of them.
When I book a seat on an aircraft I check baggage/carry on rules for that airline and pack accordingly. If I'm allowed a certain sized bag of a certain weight as carry on I'll use a bag that fits that size and fill it as necessary close to the weight (if I need to) without going over on the assumption that the airline has taken their own baggage requirements into account and has made allowance for me to stow it in a bin above my seat. Conseqently I get a little miffed when I find that the locker above my seat is already full of other gear (I know now not to select a seat in the back two or three rows!).
It's a bit similar to the habit of airlines overbooking flights and then being surprised when more people turn up than will fit on the plane. Check-in isn't meant to be a lottery. If you book the seat, get there in time for check-in, you should quite reasonably be allowed to sit in it for the duration of the flight ... but I digress, sorry.
I agree with negative comments citing storage of emergency etc equipment in O/H lockers but the fault with this doesn't lie with the crew but with aircraft designers, who know the regulations about what needs to be carried and where and should design suitable spaces to accomodate this, obviating the need to take over the O/H bins, and with the airlines who make baggage allowance rules and then seem surprised when passengers take advantage of them.
When I book a seat on an aircraft I check baggage/carry on rules for that airline and pack accordingly. If I'm allowed a certain sized bag of a certain weight as carry on I'll use a bag that fits that size and fill it as necessary close to the weight (if I need to) without going over on the assumption that the airline has taken their own baggage requirements into account and has made allowance for me to stow it in a bin above my seat. Conseqently I get a little miffed when I find that the locker above my seat is already full of other gear (I know now not to select a seat in the back two or three rows!).
It's a bit similar to the habit of airlines overbooking flights and then being surprised when more people turn up than will fit on the plane. Check-in isn't meant to be a lottery. If you book the seat, get there in time for check-in, you should quite reasonably be allowed to sit in it for the duration of the flight ... but I digress, sorry.
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Originally Posted by justwanab
Interesting discussion. As SLF I have a couple of comments (hoping they won't incite a riot).
I agree with negative comments citing storage of emergency etc equipment in O/H lockers but the fault with this doesn't lie with the crew but with aircraft designers, who know the regulations about what needs to be carried and where and should design suitable spaces to accomodate this, obviating the need to take over the O/H bins, and with the airlines who make baggage allowance rules and then seem surprised when passengers take advantage of them.
I agree with negative comments citing storage of emergency etc equipment in O/H lockers but the fault with this doesn't lie with the crew but with aircraft designers, who know the regulations about what needs to be carried and where and should design suitable spaces to accomodate this, obviating the need to take over the O/H bins, and with the airlines who make baggage allowance rules and then seem surprised when passengers take advantage of them.
Part of this dilemma comes from new equipment that has to be incorporated into old aircraft. For example, when I started flying there was no defibrilator, there were no baby loop belts (with my airline at least) and so on.
So, when they finally became part of Standard Equipment, they had to be put somewhere.
For reasons of commonality they then get put into the same space on new aircraft, that could have them in a better space. Flying three different types of aircraft I appreciate this, as there is already enough of a difference between different airplane models and families.
Also, if everybody stuck to allowed baggage rules, there would be ample space for everybody and their luggage (also at my airline at least).
I daresay it's that simple.
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Oh, and a personal thought:
why is everyone so obsessed with "their" bin?
Often I have to persuade passengers to go one bin up, or down the aisle, that bin still being almost empty.
I can understand people wanting their stuff somewhere close, but come on, what's wrong with the bin on the other side of the aisle, when you see someone sitting in the seats already and there's still space to be had?
"But I want it in my bin!". It's not your bin, it's the bin closest to your seat.
Okay, rant over.
why is everyone so obsessed with "their" bin?
Often I have to persuade passengers to go one bin up, or down the aisle, that bin still being almost empty.
I can understand people wanting their stuff somewhere close, but come on, what's wrong with the bin on the other side of the aisle, when you see someone sitting in the seats already and there's still space to be had?
"But I want it in my bin!". It's not your bin, it's the bin closest to your seat.
Okay, rant over.
If the airlines have a problem with the amount of baggage that passengers bring on board, they should do something about it. Set limits that the aircraft can handle, and enforce them
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online wrote:
Well, it's not so much "my bin" (I'm not quite that anal!) but if you get there "late" (I usually wait for the rush to subside before getting on or off an aircraft because I'm reasonably confident that I don't need to be first for either), by then it's very difficult to find space in any bin or at least one that isn't half way down the aircraft. Not a big issue if you don't need anything from it in flight but darned annoying if you do.
It's human nature to make the best use of whatever you are "given" so it shouldn't come as any surprise if passengers try to make full use of their baggage allowances!
why is everyone so obsessed with "their" bin?
It's human nature to make the best use of whatever you are "given" so it shouldn't come as any surprise if passengers try to make full use of their baggage allowances!
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Ahem, English isn't my native language. I didn't realize that "bin" had that kind of other definition. I, of course was referring to luggage-bins.
And I know what you mean, as I said, I can understand why you would want your luggage "fairly close".
Still, you'd be surprised how many people are unwilling to consider that to be anything but the space directly above their seat.
I have no problems with passengers bringing onboard what they are entitled to, but the problem is, that passengers obviously feel free to decide for themselves, what is allowed. Come on, you've seen what gets lugged into the cabin.
I'll also admit that it is partly the fault of the airlines, that they don't get stopped on the ground.
Nowadays though, if you buy your ticket online, check-in online and then self-board, it's easy to get past any personel on the ground. Then, we CC have to take the baggage off you (not you personally) have you remove any valuables, medication, passports, blabla, tag it, and get a baggage handler to load it downstairs.
If you have only the two front doors on an long-haul aircraft open, you have to go against the stream of boarding pax to do all this in a timely fashion, otherwise delays might ensue and so on.
As I said, bring what the airline allows, and there will be enough space.
I had a five week vacation in Australia, and managed to bring one (admittedly large) suitcase inside weight limitations, and went on board with one Jansport backpack containing reading materials, ipod, laptop, toothbrush, bottled water (back in the day), chocolate... you get the picture, that went under my front seat. Even on the way home with some souvenirs bought.
Ok, I'm a guy, but my it was the same for my girlfriend.
Contrary to popular belief, it can be done.
I, of course was referring to luggage-bins. And I know what you mean, as I said, I can understand why you would want your luggage "fairly close".
Still, you'd be surprised how many people are unwilling to consider that to be anything but the space directly above their seat.
I have no problems with passengers bringing onboard what they are entitled to, but the problem is, that passengers obviously feel free to decide for themselves, what is allowed. Come on, you've seen what gets lugged into the cabin.
I'll also admit that it is partly the fault of the airlines, that they don't get stopped on the ground.
Nowadays though, if you buy your ticket online, check-in online and then self-board, it's easy to get past any personel on the ground. Then, we CC have to take the baggage off you (not you personally
) have you remove any valuables, medication, passports, blabla, tag it, and get a baggage handler to load it downstairs.If you have only the two front doors on an long-haul aircraft open, you have to go against the stream of boarding pax to do all this in a timely fashion, otherwise delays might ensue and so on.
As I said, bring what the airline allows, and there will be enough space.
I had a five week vacation in Australia, and managed to bring one (admittedly large) suitcase inside weight limitations, and went on board with one Jansport backpack containing reading materials, ipod, laptop, toothbrush, bottled water (back in the day), chocolate... you get the picture, that went under my front seat. Even on the way home with some souvenirs bought.
Ok, I'm a guy, but my it was the same for my girlfriend.
Contrary to popular belief, it can be done.
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Emergency equipment location is entirely down to the operating airline. My airline ordered a fleet of A319/A329/A321 aircraft. Emergency equipment is located in floor mounted boxes behind the last row of seats, under and around crew seats and in compartment under the wardrobes. Not a sausage in the overhead lockers. We took over another airline which also operated A320 / A321 aircraft and who have placed equipment all over the place, much of it in overhead lockers. Same aircraft, different operators.
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I hate the amount of baggage that some people take on board; but the problem I have is with the airline's failure to actually police it more than the people who take it onboard. If they bothered enforcing the rules, the message would soon get out, and people would stop bringing it all.
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I am surprised that certain loco's have not yet spotted the revenue generating potential here...
Manufacture your own brand "approved" cabin luggage, a snazzy orange colour perhaps, or decorated with fine looking harp. Only this particular brand of luggage will be allowed into the cabin. All other types will have to be checked in and carried in the hold (at a charge of course).
Obviously the "own brand" luggage should be made so flimsy that it would break should more than the allowed weight be attempted to be stuffed into it. This would also mean that the life time of this brand would be fairly short and therefore generate more sales.
You saw it here first......
Manufacture your own brand "approved" cabin luggage, a snazzy orange colour perhaps, or decorated with fine looking harp. Only this particular brand of luggage will be allowed into the cabin. All other types will have to be checked in and carried in the hold (at a charge of course).
Obviously the "own brand" luggage should be made so flimsy that it would break should more than the allowed weight be attempted to be stuffed into it. This would also mean that the life time of this brand would be fairly short and therefore generate more sales.
You saw it here first......
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I didn't realize that "bin" had that kind of other definition. 
I, of course was referring to luggage-bins.
I, of course was referring to luggage-bins.
Couldn't agree more. It's infuriating how much some folk try to bring on. The agents at the gate need to be more vigilant in checking how much people are attempting to bring on as hand luggage, and strictly enforce the one bag (+ laptop/purse) rule.
Very rarely do the crew at the gate even seem to notice. Admittedly they're pretty busy with checking passes at the time so shouldn't have to.
Maybe a new procedure could be instigated whereby all bags, including cabin baggage, are sized and weighed at check-in and approved cabin baggage is tagged with a bright dayglo tag. No tag at the gate ... bag goes in the hold or stays home.
People would quickly get the message, but until the rules are enforced nothing will change.
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major problem is on line check in so frequently the first time a pax will be seen is at the gate. if you have a busy flight and tight timescales to board, it is very easy to miss.
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Baldur and Justawanab
I seriously wish they'd wake up and MAKE this policy. I mean CC is pretty much trained in everything else EXCEPT weight - lifting....Else carry bouncers instead of CC ( will take care of that drunk creating nuisance as well !)
I seriously wish they'd wake up and MAKE this policy. I mean CC is pretty much trained in everything else EXCEPT weight - lifting....Else carry bouncers instead of CC ( will take care of that drunk creating nuisance as well !)
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BAA Change the rules
"The only way around the baggage policy will be if airport security limit what can be carried through pax search."
As from the 13th May 2010 BAA will no longer check sizes and weights of hand luggage at security, the only criteria now is that it will fit through the X-Ray and that you can carry it.
As from the 13th May 2010 BAA will no longer check sizes and weights of hand luggage at security, the only criteria now is that it will fit through the X-Ray and that you can carry it.
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@ Justawanab
The location of emergency equipment is decided upon by the operator not the manufacturer. The reason for the equipment "migrating" to the overheads is I suspect to save space in the galley stowage. The smaller the galleys are the more room there is for seats, the more seats you have the more pax you can cram on-board. I am currently working for a legacy carrier and guess what? No emergency equipment in the overheads, it's all in the galleys next to the crew positions.
I suspect the lo-cos and charter operators are the worst offenders....
The location of emergency equipment is decided upon by the operator not the manufacturer. The reason for the equipment "migrating" to the overheads is I suspect to save space in the galley stowage. The smaller the galleys are the more room there is for seats, the more seats you have the more pax you can cram on-board. I am currently working for a legacy carrier and guess what? No emergency equipment in the overheads, it's all in the galleys next to the crew positions.
I suspect the lo-cos and charter operators are the worst offenders....
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Blimey, they don't hang around, do they?
As predicted in my earlier post...
Air Transport News.
Now just wait for the changes in policy regarding non-approved hand luggage...
Air Transport News.
Ryanair today (19th May) announced a new partnership with Samsonite, the world’s biggest luggage provider, to sell a Samsonite designed softsided carry-on bag which (when properly packed*) complies with Ryanair’s carry-on bag weight and size restrictions.
This year 73m passengers will snap up Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fares. Over 50m of these passengers will save even more money by travelling without checked-in bags while availing of Ryanair’s generous 10KG FREE hand baggage allowance. To encourage more passengers to switch to carry-on bags Ryanair and Samsonite have designed a quality, durable, lightweight carry-on bag which (when properly packed*) complies with Ryanair’s approved carry-on bag dimensions....
...Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said,
“This year 73m passengers will travel on Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fares with over 50m of them travelling without checked in bags. Ryanair encourages all passengers to travel with just one piece of carry-on baggage and to ensure they can get the maximum benefit of our generous, FREE 10KG carry-on baggage allowance we have developed a lightweight, durable, top quality carry-on bag with Samsonite. At just €79/£69 including free delivery, this is a quality product at a great price.”
President of Samsonite Europe Fabio Rugarli, said,
"Samsonite's global expertise in producing innovative luggage to suit all travel occasions, made this project with Ryanair an appealing partnership. Our design and technology specialists responded to the brief, creating well-priced, practical and compact luggage to fit the absolute precise measurements of Ryanair's hand luggage specifications. We know that there is nothing more reassuring than travelling to the airport with the knowledge that your hand luggage will fit into the aircraft cabin."
*As this Samsonite bag is softsided, if over-packed it may not fit into Ryanair’s baggage sizers and in such cases Ryanair will require it to be carried as checked-in baggage.
This year 73m passengers will snap up Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fares. Over 50m of these passengers will save even more money by travelling without checked-in bags while availing of Ryanair’s generous 10KG FREE hand baggage allowance. To encourage more passengers to switch to carry-on bags Ryanair and Samsonite have designed a quality, durable, lightweight carry-on bag which (when properly packed*) complies with Ryanair’s approved carry-on bag dimensions....
...Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said,
“This year 73m passengers will travel on Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fares with over 50m of them travelling without checked in bags. Ryanair encourages all passengers to travel with just one piece of carry-on baggage and to ensure they can get the maximum benefit of our generous, FREE 10KG carry-on baggage allowance we have developed a lightweight, durable, top quality carry-on bag with Samsonite. At just €79/£69 including free delivery, this is a quality product at a great price.”
President of Samsonite Europe Fabio Rugarli, said,
"Samsonite's global expertise in producing innovative luggage to suit all travel occasions, made this project with Ryanair an appealing partnership. Our design and technology specialists responded to the brief, creating well-priced, practical and compact luggage to fit the absolute precise measurements of Ryanair's hand luggage specifications. We know that there is nothing more reassuring than travelling to the airport with the knowledge that your hand luggage will fit into the aircraft cabin."
*As this Samsonite bag is softsided, if over-packed it may not fit into Ryanair’s baggage sizers and in such cases Ryanair will require it to be carried as checked-in baggage.
Now just wait for the changes in policy regarding non-approved hand luggage...
To those who rant about aircraft manufacturers not taking weight in the overhead baggage stowage.....have a look inside, they are all stressed to certain weights, last time I flew in a 320 in Aus I seem to remember it was 38 kg per area. All these figures are worked out for G factors when aircraft are landed heavily or crashed. If you think the bags are too heavy and that they would go above the weight limit expressed by the manufacturer and you sit underneath it and something falls out you will have no legal claim against the manufacturer as you knowingly allowed the weight limit to be exceeded. What to do about it.....complain to the cabin crew point out the weight limit and wait to see what excuse they come up with. Get it in writing and report it to the authorities. If enough people do this airlines will have no excuse not to investigate. If you complain hard enough and get support from surrounding passengers it will cause a delay something that airlines dont like but soon they will get the message. I never exceed the limits on overhead baggage why should I accept that others should and put me in danger.
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but I still don't understand...
why should different airlines have different sizes / weight specificications for their o/h ?
I can understand it could be because of different a/c but even then ?
Ok even if you were to give me that piece i'd take it as long as on my ticket you specified ( since you know what's the equipment you're flying and I don't) the dimensions and weight ( esp for international) .
Also remember on intl flights, duty free could add up to another 5kgs per pax, which could be another 1 tonne per 200 pax which is nowhere on the trim sheet....
I can understand it could be because of different a/c but even then ?
Ok even if you were to give me that piece i'd take it as long as on my ticket you specified ( since you know what's the equipment you're flying and I don't) the dimensions and weight ( esp for international) .
Also remember on intl flights, duty free could add up to another 5kgs per pax, which could be another 1 tonne per 200 pax which is nowhere on the trim sheet....