Unbelted child - Family offloaded. Now what happens etc
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Esher, Surrey
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unbelted child - Family offloaded. Now what happens etc
This morning a reliable source onboard relayed the following.
Flight was due to depart when a very young child would not accept being belted up in its seat. All efforts by the parents failed to resolve it so the family was offloaded and the flight left about 90 mins late.
I recognise it was a safety issue etc. but just a few questions.
How do CC handle such an event and how do they cope with some displeased pax during the duration of the flight ?
What happens to the offloads?
Do they have to buy another ticket ?
Quite a few years ago I along with my wife and children experienced a BA 747 LHR MIA flight delayed eight hours ex LHR.
An unfortunate initial delay for several reasons, then an offload of a nervous pax, need to feed the pax and crew ran out of hours.
The CC were very good and I was not aware of any seniors getting upset.
Flight was due to depart when a very young child would not accept being belted up in its seat. All efforts by the parents failed to resolve it so the family was offloaded and the flight left about 90 mins late.
I recognise it was a safety issue etc. but just a few questions.
How do CC handle such an event and how do they cope with some displeased pax during the duration of the flight ?
What happens to the offloads?
Do they have to buy another ticket ?
Quite a few years ago I along with my wife and children experienced a BA 747 LHR MIA flight delayed eight hours ex LHR.
An unfortunate initial delay for several reasons, then an offload of a nervous pax, need to feed the pax and crew ran out of hours.
The CC were very good and I was not aware of any seniors getting upset.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: edinburgh
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would imagine the passengers offloaded would be a lot more displeased than the ones left onboard , as they are still getting to their destination albeit late.
There is no black or white answer to handling this situation, the groundstaff would need to calm the parents/child down and depending on the fare they may have had to pay a change fee or buy a new ticket, however if the same situation arose on the second attempt I doubt very much they would be given a 3rd !
There is no black or white answer to handling this situation, the groundstaff would need to calm the parents/child down and depending on the fare they may have had to pay a change fee or buy a new ticket, however if the same situation arose on the second attempt I doubt very much they would be given a 3rd !
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is unfortunate when this happens. A small child should be fairly easy to keep in a seat belt. If you have to hold them down, then that's what you have to do. Obviously the best thing to do, is to explain to the child before the flight what's going to happen, what's expected of them and how parents want them to behave. Parents should bring something to occupy the child's mind. Favourite teddy, colouring books/crayons and such like. I'd recommend toys without noise for obvious reasons.
If the cabin secure can't be done because of a child not being strapped in, then the last resort would be to offload them. Not ideal, of course, but we can't take off without everyone having their seatbelts on.
What happens next depends on the airline...
Gg
If the cabin secure can't be done because of a child not being strapped in, then the last resort would be to offload them. Not ideal, of course, but we can't take off without everyone having their seatbelts on.
What happens next depends on the airline...
Gg
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From a passenger's point of view:
It also depends on the parents actually doing a proper job of being parents. If they cannot control
then it bodes ill for that child's future. [I'm assuming the child has no intellectual disability which may have caused it to have a problem.] The problem is entirely the parents' and not the airline's. Well done whoever offloaded them. The thought of a child-sized missile hurtling through the cabin in the event of a crash fills me with horror.
What happens next depends on the airline..
a very young child
DX Wombat. Couldn't agree more. As slf with young children, from a few months to teenagers, if you can't gettem to sit down and shut up, you are a failed parent. And Heaven help them when they become adults.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Balmullo,Scotland
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Totally agree if you cannot make a child sit doing and put a belt on there is something seriously wrong with your parenting skills(lack off) my own children now teens have beens flying since before they could walk with no trouble ever! however saying that my grandson (3 half) would be a complete nightmare and I would never take him on an aircraft (I am his grand father not his parent) as I know this is what would happen even had a HUGE problem in clarkes getting shoes for him as he screamed the place down when attempting a fitting, his G/mother(divorced 20 years) is taking him on holiday next year, She is braver than me 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: A whole new world now!!
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How's this for parenting skills ?
About 3 years ago I met two and a half year old Lewis traveling with two adults playing at being parents on the AGP - LGW. Lewis had these two totally wrapped round his little finger.
First tantrum came from the Dad as they could not sit on the restricted seats on the front row and he objected loudly to row 2. Second tantrum came from the Mum when I would not give Lewis the extention belt she asked for to sit him on her lap.
" How am I going to get him to sit in his seat?" came the inevitable question. As a parent myself I was qualified to give some direct advice
Throughout the flight Dad had a fixation with the cloudy sky outside the window whilst Mum trailed around after Lewis letting him run riot and then placating him with Coke and Smarties
!!!
Then came fasten seatbelts when the fun really started as our hyped up and tantrumming "little angel" had to sit down. I had to ask Dad to take some control so I could pass the cabin secure.
Next thing I know Lewis is out of his seat and climbing over the back to the row behind. My No 4 went to deal with it to no avail. I then had to tell the Captain the cabin was now unsecure and the reason why.
"you have 2 minutes to sort it out or we go around" was the reply. No pressure on me then!!!
I gave Lewis a firm telling off and he sat very still with a look of amazement on his face at the new sheriff in town. Cabin secure passed for the second time as the wheels are coming down.
We are feet from the ground when Mum takes Lewis and plonks him on the floor in the aisle because he is creating again. This is well into the critical stage of flight so I could not contact the F/D.
Heavy landing follows with Lewis flying forward and stopped by my No 4 beside me. Que more screams from him and then I got a tirade from his Father threatening to sue
He changed his mind and mumbled grudging apologies when the Captain stepped in when we arrived on stand and informed him all had been captured on the video and was being submitted with the ASR/CSR.
If you can't act like a parent on a plane then don't travel on one until you can IMHO
First tantrum came from the Dad as they could not sit on the restricted seats on the front row and he objected loudly to row 2. Second tantrum came from the Mum when I would not give Lewis the extention belt she asked for to sit him on her lap.
" How am I going to get him to sit in his seat?" came the inevitable question. As a parent myself I was qualified to give some direct advice
Throughout the flight Dad had a fixation with the cloudy sky outside the window whilst Mum trailed around after Lewis letting him run riot and then placating him with Coke and Smarties
!!!Then came fasten seatbelts when the fun really started as our hyped up and tantrumming "little angel" had to sit down. I had to ask Dad to take some control so I could pass the cabin secure.
Next thing I know Lewis is out of his seat and climbing over the back to the row behind. My No 4 went to deal with it to no avail. I then had to tell the Captain the cabin was now unsecure and the reason why.
"you have 2 minutes to sort it out or we go around" was the reply. No pressure on me then!!!
I gave Lewis a firm telling off and he sat very still with a look of amazement on his face at the new sheriff in town. Cabin secure passed for the second time as the wheels are coming down.
We are feet from the ground when Mum takes Lewis and plonks him on the floor in the aisle because he is creating again. This is well into the critical stage of flight so I could not contact the F/D.
Heavy landing follows with Lewis flying forward and stopped by my No 4 beside me. Que more screams from him and then I got a tirade from his Father threatening to sue
He changed his mind and mumbled grudging apologies when the Captain stepped in when we arrived on stand and informed him all had been captured on the video and was being submitted with the ASR/CSR.
If you can't act like a parent on a plane then don't travel on one until you can IMHO
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: scotland
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i just dont understand - sitting down and putting on your seatbelt/sitting in seat is not an option in the car, why would it be on a plane?
i agree the parents are probably going to be more upset at being offloaded, but lets face it if they cannot ensure they safety of a very young child then it is their problem noone elses
its like 'parents' who yell at their toddlers for running off in the supermarket - duh - hold their flamin hand, when are these people gonna realise that they are responsible for the child?????
i agree the parents are probably going to be more upset at being offloaded, but lets face it if they cannot ensure they safety of a very young child then it is their problem noone elses
its like 'parents' who yell at their toddlers for running off in the supermarket - duh - hold their flamin hand, when are these people gonna realise that they are responsible for the child?????
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We've taken our (now 2 and quarter year old) son on 3 round trips to LA so far and, perhaps more so than anyone else, I know the importance of strapping in!
On our last outbound flight (front row of economy on a BA744), he really did not want to sit on either of our laps and be strapped in. As we approached the runway, the screaming started and my wife and I got more and more embarrassed.
A very understanding FA told us not to worry about the noise - which kind of goes without saying but is nice to hear from the on board officials!!
We pushed through the tantrum and held him securely (with a mixture of our arms and a seatbelt) and as soon as we took off, he stopped crying and was a dream for the rest of the flight, much to our relief.
It's difficult to restrain a screaming/wriggling toddler but not impossible. However, this is totally the responsibility of the parents.
If the parents are unwilling or incapable of doing so, a "loose" child could be injured or could injure someone else. I agree that they should not be allowed to fly in these circumstances.
On our last outbound flight (front row of economy on a BA744), he really did not want to sit on either of our laps and be strapped in. As we approached the runway, the screaming started and my wife and I got more and more embarrassed.
A very understanding FA told us not to worry about the noise - which kind of goes without saying but is nice to hear from the on board officials!!
We pushed through the tantrum and held him securely (with a mixture of our arms and a seatbelt) and as soon as we took off, he stopped crying and was a dream for the rest of the flight, much to our relief.
It's difficult to restrain a screaming/wriggling toddler but not impossible. However, this is totally the responsibility of the parents.
If the parents are unwilling or incapable of doing so, a "loose" child could be injured or could injure someone else. I agree that they should not be allowed to fly in these circumstances.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: A whole new world now!!
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suzib76......that was exactly what I said then and still do now 
Car seat or plane seat.......rules are rules.
We travel down a runway at approx 150 MPH. In a car it would be unthinkable to even do this speed. Even less have an unrestrained child on board yet some parents seem to think this is OK because we are on a plane??? Err......no it's not
Heliplane......absolutely to all your post! Noise from babies and children is accepted on a plane for a lot of reasons by the CC
What happens If I offload a parent who cannot control a child? I don't know at my company as I've never done it and I'm afraid to say I don't care anyway. My priority at that point is :
1) Safety of all on board
2) An on time departure which is in the interests of the majority of pax.
Car seat or plane seat.......rules are rules.We travel down a runway at approx 150 MPH. In a car it would be unthinkable to even do this speed. Even less have an unrestrained child on board yet some parents seem to think this is OK because we are on a plane??? Err......no it's not
Heliplane......absolutely to all your post! Noise from babies and children is accepted on a plane for a lot of reasons by the CC
What happens If I offload a parent who cannot control a child? I don't know at my company as I've never done it and I'm afraid to say I don't care anyway. My priority at that point is :
1) Safety of all on board
2) An on time departure which is in the interests of the majority of pax.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 70
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sort of related question ......
What happens if a passenger becomes so nervous and hysterical before takeoff that he/she wants to disembark? Under what circumstances and at what stage prior to t/o would they be allowed to disembark, and would they qualify for a refund (I assume not!).
I'm asking because I recently had someone like this sitting next to me (strangely enough on a SA Airlink flight - maybe she knew something!) and in the end she decided to fly but it was (pardon the pun) a bit touch and go.
What happens if a passenger becomes so nervous and hysterical before takeoff that he/she wants to disembark? Under what circumstances and at what stage prior to t/o would they be allowed to disembark, and would they qualify for a refund (I assume not!).
I'm asking because I recently had someone like this sitting next to me (strangely enough on a SA Airlink flight - maybe she knew something!) and in the end she decided to fly but it was (pardon the pun) a bit touch and go.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Esher, Surrey
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What happens if a passenger becomes so nervous and hysterical before takeoff that he/she wants to disembark?
We were on board but still at the gate when a passenger became too nervous to fly.
The flight was already late and BA de-planed us to eat prior to a replacement crew arriving.
The T4 food outlets had no warning of a Full 747 load of hungry travellers decending on them waving vouchers.
Re yesterdays offload. Some of the family were in club (but that might be an upgarde with frequent flyer miles.)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: suffolk
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get real ,
a child having a hissy fit and not allowing itself to be strapped in, has no relation necessarily,to a parents ability to parent.Its what small children ,babies, do irrationally.
a child having a hissy fit and not allowing itself to be strapped in, has no relation necessarily,to a parents ability to parent.Its what small children ,babies, do irrationally.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed Tomkins, but if you couldn't strap said child into its car seat then I presume you wouldn't drive off regardless. It's no different on an aircraft - it might be potentially embarassing for parents WRT the racket junior may make, but it still needs to be done.
I speak from experience of this, but we got over it...and it was only the once!
I speak from experience of this, but we got over it...and it was only the once!
Last edited by Fuel_on_Mixture_Rich; 11th Dec 2009 at 17:24. Reason: typ-oh!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: suffolk
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite agree,
I would not drive off until the situation was resolved and the belt was on.Slightly different in a plane that is trying to keep to a slot time.According to the initial thread the parents tried everything they could to secure the child and it seems they were offloaded in order to prevent further delays to the aircraft.I would not assume poor parenting skills though, (unless I had never had kids of my own).
I would not drive off until the situation was resolved and the belt was on.Slightly different in a plane that is trying to keep to a slot time.According to the initial thread the parents tried everything they could to secure the child and it seems they were offloaded in order to prevent further delays to the aircraft.I would not assume poor parenting skills though, (unless I had never had kids of my own).
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the child is old enough to spoken to, I find that being told rather firmly that the seatbelt must be worn often works because it's a) a stranger telling them and b) someone in uniform. Quite often mum & dad are doing their best but as we know little kids are little kids and sometimes just don't want to listen.
For example, little Johnny running up and down the aisle numerous times, asked parents to keep him in his seat, they didn't. Little Johnny just about knocked me over while I was carrying a coffee pot. looke Johnny in the eye (he was about 6), and said quite sharply, but not too meanly "Go sit down and put your seatbelt on, NOW". He did. For the rest of the flight. So sometimes they will listen to the crew because the crew seem more 'in charge' in the plane.
Of course if the kid doesn't want to listen and kicks up so much fuss (as this one obviously did) that it cannot be calmed or made to sit down then offloading may be the only option at that time.
I've also found with older kids that telling them how it works helps... e.g "We can't take off until I tell the Captain that everyone has their seatbelt on, and you haven't got yours on, you don't want everyone to be late do you?" or "The Captain can't take off until all the seatbelts are on and you don't want me to get in trouble do you?" often work wonders on older kids
Totally agree with sentiments above re: car seats & kids, some parents play 'dumb' but the car seat argument totally demolishes that ploy
For example, little Johnny running up and down the aisle numerous times, asked parents to keep him in his seat, they didn't. Little Johnny just about knocked me over while I was carrying a coffee pot. looke Johnny in the eye (he was about 6), and said quite sharply, but not too meanly "Go sit down and put your seatbelt on, NOW". He did. For the rest of the flight. So sometimes they will listen to the crew because the crew seem more 'in charge' in the plane.
Of course if the kid doesn't want to listen and kicks up so much fuss (as this one obviously did) that it cannot be calmed or made to sit down then offloading may be the only option at that time.
I've also found with older kids that telling them how it works helps... e.g "We can't take off until I tell the Captain that everyone has their seatbelt on, and you haven't got yours on, you don't want everyone to be late do you?" or "The Captain can't take off until all the seatbelts are on and you don't want me to get in trouble do you?" often work wonders on older kids
Totally agree with sentiments above re: car seats & kids, some parents play 'dumb' but the car seat argument totally demolishes that ploy
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Slip them a sedative and problem solved!
Actually in all seriousness I have been asked for water by a parent who was about to do just that. I thought it was fantastic. Parents among the crew were horrified.
Actually in all seriousness I have been asked for water by a parent who was about to do just that. I thought it was fantastic. Parents among the crew were horrified.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: a few track miles south of BEKOL
Age: 57
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have travelled extensively, both short and long haul, with my son, now 2 years old. his first flight was at about 4 months HKG-SFO. that one went well and i have to say that (touch wood) we have been super lucky.
when he was smaller, we would bring a car seat and strap that in. during the flight he could be secured there (we always bought a seat for him). as we often fly business on long haul, that is getting more difficult as these new seats do not accomodate car seats. the issue for me is that a 2 year old really has limited concept of critical parts of flight and a regular seat belt does not secure him/her at all. indeed if a 2 year old were in a regular seat with a regular seatbelt, i do not believe it would restrain him/her in the event of a sudden stop.
airlines d a great job with these basinettes by the time the baby is 6 months old, the basinettes are just too small. it would be great if there were a widely accepted form of airline booster seat that could secure the 6 month to 30 month age group. by that time, i think they would be roughly big enough to be in a proper seat.
interested in any views on this.
when he was smaller, we would bring a car seat and strap that in. during the flight he could be secured there (we always bought a seat for him). as we often fly business on long haul, that is getting more difficult as these new seats do not accomodate car seats. the issue for me is that a 2 year old really has limited concept of critical parts of flight and a regular seat belt does not secure him/her at all. indeed if a 2 year old were in a regular seat with a regular seatbelt, i do not believe it would restrain him/her in the event of a sudden stop.
airlines d a great job with these basinettes by the time the baby is 6 months old, the basinettes are just too small. it would be great if there were a widely accepted form of airline booster seat that could secure the 6 month to 30 month age group. by that time, i think they would be roughly big enough to be in a proper seat.
interested in any views on this.