Aer Lingus IAD-MAD
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YVR
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just find this interesting that all this is coming about as UAL heads into contract negotiations with crews. What saddens me is that other airlines may start this stunt with not so good carriers i.e. Asia routes. To me this seems like some sort of spawn derived from airline alliances (Star, Oneworld) where flying is shared, and the CPA operation of regional flying. Bring it together and this is what you have. Are your staff getting too old and and an inconvenience? Sick of actually paying crews a fair wage? Do you not wish you could substitute ****e for their crew meals? No problem...at Aer Outsource Lingus we will be glad to hire people at little or no cost to take all your labour problems away!
The main reason why I do not want this to work is because I just do not want it to become a trend that will ruin all of our careers. I just get so frustrated with people taking this job saying it is the new airline industry. What they do not realize is that they are taking the career out of it and turning it into a minimum wage job for all of us. I could care less who they are working for; I do not like the precedent they are setting, under the guises of 'oh poor me..I can't get a job', especially when traditional paying airlines are hiring. They are walking right into a trap set by airline mgmt to get around their labour force. And these new hires are basically saying, 'Give us crap and we will eat it. We will do anything to fly', giving other airlines the idea that they do not need to treat us well at all anymore as there are people out there who will even pay them to fly.
There used to be a lot of jobs in North America that paid well and did not require a masters degree. Manufacturing and different trades positions afforded one a decent life. Well, our lovely governments, pressured/lobbied by corporations, signed into the global marketplace. So as we have noticed, we are still getting a lot of the same products (not made to last) at an ok quality, but when looking at the marks on it, it usually is made in a developing country. Corporations simply wanted a global marketplace so they could cheap out on labour and increase their profits; developing countries were eager to get cash and exploit their workers in the process. So all those jobs we used to have, are done by migrant labourers overseas (hardly a career for a lot of them). The only people who have truly benefited from it are those that run the show, not you and I. Now airlines are setting out in this direction, and I fear someday, there will be fewer and fewer cabin crew jobs for us, or atleast ones that afford us to pay rent, mortgage, food and car bills. It is not as if we all make a fortune right now. These individuals taking these positions are opening the door for it to get a whole lot worse; they do not get it and cannot see the next outsourcing points will be Eastern Europe (already happening) and Asia, as this model will be used as an example for others. It is like a lab experiment.
The main reason why I do not want this to work is because I just do not want it to become a trend that will ruin all of our careers. I just get so frustrated with people taking this job saying it is the new airline industry. What they do not realize is that they are taking the career out of it and turning it into a minimum wage job for all of us. I could care less who they are working for; I do not like the precedent they are setting, under the guises of 'oh poor me..I can't get a job', especially when traditional paying airlines are hiring. They are walking right into a trap set by airline mgmt to get around their labour force. And these new hires are basically saying, 'Give us crap and we will eat it. We will do anything to fly', giving other airlines the idea that they do not need to treat us well at all anymore as there are people out there who will even pay them to fly.
There used to be a lot of jobs in North America that paid well and did not require a masters degree. Manufacturing and different trades positions afforded one a decent life. Well, our lovely governments, pressured/lobbied by corporations, signed into the global marketplace. So as we have noticed, we are still getting a lot of the same products (not made to last) at an ok quality, but when looking at the marks on it, it usually is made in a developing country. Corporations simply wanted a global marketplace so they could cheap out on labour and increase their profits; developing countries were eager to get cash and exploit their workers in the process. So all those jobs we used to have, are done by migrant labourers overseas (hardly a career for a lot of them). The only people who have truly benefited from it are those that run the show, not you and I. Now airlines are setting out in this direction, and I fear someday, there will be fewer and fewer cabin crew jobs for us, or atleast ones that afford us to pay rent, mortgage, food and car bills. It is not as if we all make a fortune right now. These individuals taking these positions are opening the door for it to get a whole lot worse; they do not get it and cannot see the next outsourcing points will be Eastern Europe (already happening) and Asia, as this model will be used as an example for others. It is like a lab experiment.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HeyKiddo,
I really dont know who you think you are slagging me off like that. Totally inappropriate. As said before I have no interests in Aer Lingus, couldnt care less but I do have some knowledge that could be very healthy for you but you just want to slag me off. Says it all really!
FURIOUS!
I really dont know who you think you are slagging me off like that. Totally inappropriate. As said before I have no interests in Aer Lingus, couldnt care less but I do have some knowledge that could be very healthy for you but you just want to slag me off. Says it all really!
FURIOUS!
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Potomac Heights
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everyone's right, but what is the solution?
This is an unfortunate thread, because nearly all of the participants are correct (and very articulate). Heykiddo has accurately adduced the real culprit -- intensifying competition due to a drop in entry barriers into the airline business (but with one minor correction, the disbanding of the CAB and deregulation of the US airline business began in 1978 under Carter, not Reagan). Yaletown has correctly identified that this Aer Lingus/UAL venture will further pressure FA wages. And apaddyinuk is likely right that Aer Lingus may quickly bail out of this venture and seek even more discounted staffing costs.
The key answer that is not provided is whether there is something that can to done to stop this downward spiral of wages and working conditions. Simply boycotting the EI/UA venture is unlikely to have much of an effect. Rather, from the point-of-view of this SLF (who happens to be an economist), the key thing that needs to be done to improve FA conditions is for the industry (and FAs) to demonstrate that better FA wages will provide SLF with service that SLF are willing to pay extra for. I, for one, am willing to pay a premium if I can expect to get a better grade of service from flight or cabin crew. But people in the airline industry need to put their heads together to figure out how this might be done. Of course it is also possible that I am in the minority, and the nearly all SLF just want the absolute cheapest ticket with no regard to the quality of service. If this is the case, there may be no hope. But I hope not.
Before I am flamed, let me conclude this post by again observing that the main contributors have been incredibly articulate in presenting the issues -- and I have little doubt that they will be successful in any venture they pursue.
The key answer that is not provided is whether there is something that can to done to stop this downward spiral of wages and working conditions. Simply boycotting the EI/UA venture is unlikely to have much of an effect. Rather, from the point-of-view of this SLF (who happens to be an economist), the key thing that needs to be done to improve FA conditions is for the industry (and FAs) to demonstrate that better FA wages will provide SLF with service that SLF are willing to pay extra for. I, for one, am willing to pay a premium if I can expect to get a better grade of service from flight or cabin crew. But people in the airline industry need to put their heads together to figure out how this might be done. Of course it is also possible that I am in the minority, and the nearly all SLF just want the absolute cheapest ticket with no regard to the quality of service. If this is the case, there may be no hope. But I hope not.
Before I am flamed, let me conclude this post by again observing that the main contributors have been incredibly articulate in presenting the issues -- and I have little doubt that they will be successful in any venture they pursue.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YVR
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aer Lingus Appoints Former Air Canada CEO To Board
Hmm...makes me wonder if Shamrock clad A330's will also be doing some of AC's flying, as they are doing for UAL all thanks to our Open Skies Agreement....
Remember how it was mentioned that bilingual Canadians are even cheaper labour than Americans? (weaker dollar and not having to pay for medical) Canada as well is in the process of Open Skies with Europe. As I said before, there is no end to this game, and I would not be surprised if some of that IAD flying could be affected, or now crewed by Canadians, as remember, it is an EI registered aircraft. Not good.
Aer Lingus Appoints Former Air Canada CEO To Board
Aer Lingus appoints new directors - The Irish Times - Mon, Jan 25, 2010
Remember how it was mentioned that bilingual Canadians are even cheaper labour than Americans? (weaker dollar and not having to pay for medical) Canada as well is in the process of Open Skies with Europe. As I said before, there is no end to this game, and I would not be surprised if some of that IAD flying could be affected, or now crewed by Canadians, as remember, it is an EI registered aircraft. Not good.
Aer Lingus Appoints Former Air Canada CEO To Board
Aer Lingus appoints new directors - The Irish Times - Mon, Jan 25, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All valid points, but I would be surprised if they did AC flying. I believe this UA deal covers up to 3x A330s. Based on their own transatlantic flying, they need the remainder to cover their schedule. Their would be absolute political chaos if EI pulled transatlantic flights altogether to basically do 'jv' flying.
I believe the first batch of US cabin crew should be coming to Ireland in ca. 1-2 weeks for their on-site training and then supernumerary flights.
I believe the first batch of US cabin crew should be coming to Ireland in ca. 1-2 weeks for their on-site training and then supernumerary flights.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YVR
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, as Mr Milton and Mr Brewer are personal friends, anything is possible. I would not be surprised at anything these days. I guess what will be will be. I think for all of us the good days are gone anyways and this whole game is just simply about making money for the executives.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know it was ages ago, but someone mentioned that it will be the only airline flying IAD-MAD. I was under the impression that Iberia flies that route, although now only in summer?
