Interesting CHIRP Question!!
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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In so far as anonymity of the CHIRP reports is concerned, I am looking at my copy as I type.
The back page, as you are aware, states amongst other things that: '1. Your personal details are required only to enable us to contact you for further details about any part of your report...'
It is totally confidential as far as I am aware - it wouldn't work otherwise. The article does, however, mention at the beginning that the report 'has also been published in the Autumn issue of Cabin Crew FEEDBACK to raise crew awareness.' I don't know what terms and conditions are attached to that publication.
The back page, as you are aware, states amongst other things that: '1. Your personal details are required only to enable us to contact you for further details about any part of your report...'
It is totally confidential as far as I am aware - it wouldn't work otherwise. The article does, however, mention at the beginning that the report 'has also been published in the Autumn issue of Cabin Crew FEEDBACK to raise crew awareness.' I don't know what terms and conditions are attached to that publication.
All of the CHIRP publications contain the same disclaimer. The program also includes the following overview:
About CHIRP
CHIRP for Aviation = Confidential Human Factors Incident Reporting Programme
CHIRP for Maritime = Confidential Hazardous Incident Reporting Programme
The aim of CHIRP is to contribute to the enhancement of aviation and maritime safety in the UK, by providing a totally independent confidential (not anonymous) reporting system for all individuals employed in or associated with these industries.
CHIRP has been in operation for aviation since 1982. In 1996 the Programme was restructured in the form of a charitable company limited by guarantee to enable it to make a more effective contribution to the resolution of important safety-related issues. This corporate structure was selected in order to provide a totally independent organisation, with management and fiscal responsibilities held by an Independent Board of Trustees. The maritime programme has been operating since July 2003.
CHIRP welcomes safety-related reports from flight crew, air traffic control officers, licensed aircraft maintenance engineers, cabin crew and the General Aviation community and people in the maritime sector, including the shipping industry, fishing industry and leisure users.
Reporters' identities are kept confidential. Personal details are not retained and are returned to the reporter or destroyed on closure of their report. The information provided is made available, with the approval of the reporter, and in a disidentified form to those who can take action to remedy the problem. Important information gained through reports, after being disidentified, is also made as widely as possible, principally through the publications Air Transport FEEDBACK, General Aviation FEEDBACK, Cabin Crew FEEDBACK and Maritime FEEDBACK with the aim of improving safety. standards.
The CHIRP aviation programme complements the Civil Aviation Authority Mandatory Occurrence Reporting scheme. Both aviation and maritime programmes also complement other formal reporting systems operated by many UK organisations, by providing a means by which individuals are able to raise issues of concern without being identified to their peer group, management, or the Regulatory Authority. Anonymous reports are not normally acted upon as they cannot be validated.
CHIRP for Aviation = Confidential Human Factors Incident Reporting Programme
CHIRP for Maritime = Confidential Hazardous Incident Reporting Programme
The aim of CHIRP is to contribute to the enhancement of aviation and maritime safety in the UK, by providing a totally independent confidential (not anonymous) reporting system for all individuals employed in or associated with these industries.
CHIRP has been in operation for aviation since 1982. In 1996 the Programme was restructured in the form of a charitable company limited by guarantee to enable it to make a more effective contribution to the resolution of important safety-related issues. This corporate structure was selected in order to provide a totally independent organisation, with management and fiscal responsibilities held by an Independent Board of Trustees. The maritime programme has been operating since July 2003.
CHIRP welcomes safety-related reports from flight crew, air traffic control officers, licensed aircraft maintenance engineers, cabin crew and the General Aviation community and people in the maritime sector, including the shipping industry, fishing industry and leisure users.
Reporters' identities are kept confidential. Personal details are not retained and are returned to the reporter or destroyed on closure of their report. The information provided is made available, with the approval of the reporter, and in a disidentified form to those who can take action to remedy the problem. Important information gained through reports, after being disidentified, is also made as widely as possible, principally through the publications Air Transport FEEDBACK, General Aviation FEEDBACK, Cabin Crew FEEDBACK and Maritime FEEDBACK with the aim of improving safety. standards.
The CHIRP aviation programme complements the Civil Aviation Authority Mandatory Occurrence Reporting scheme. Both aviation and maritime programmes also complement other formal reporting systems operated by many UK organisations, by providing a means by which individuals are able to raise issues of concern without being identified to their peer group, management, or the Regulatory Authority. Anonymous reports are not normally acted upon as they cannot be validated.
CHIRP Air Transport FEEDBACK
CHIRP General Aviation FEEDBACK
CHIRP Cabin Crew FEEDBACK
CHIRP Maritime FEEDBACK
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
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Like BALLSOUT, and after 37 years of driving various airframes round the world, I would absolutely refuse to get airbourne with ice/snow contamination on any flying surface. Despite what manufacturers say. Maybe in extremis like going to war, but never otherwise...
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Sydney
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In all my years of flying I have never seen a wing with ice like that on it in flight.
The fake photo hypothesis is looking good to me.
Nevertheless, any flight attendant who alerts me to ice anywhere gets a big thumbs up. Any pilot who would dismiss such information out of hand without checking is quite frankly an idiot.
The fake photo hypothesis is looking good to me.
Nevertheless, any flight attendant who alerts me to ice anywhere gets a big thumbs up. Any pilot who would dismiss such information out of hand without checking is quite frankly an idiot.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Sure a modern aircraft can fly with a load of contamination on the upper wing surface.
So at a critical moment of flight, takeoff, your performance figures are rubbish. You normally rotate at approx 1.2 Vs for the weight and given performance of the wing. So, an unknown amount of weight has been added bringing you closer to Vs, at the same time the wing performance has been degraded at an unknown rate. As you rotate you are asking more of the wing as you increase the AoA, pushing you closer to the stall.
As a wing stalls the centre of pressure/centre of lift moves rapidly forward on the upper surface of the wing causing a pitching up movement, again increasing the AoA. So at the stall you pitch up - you don't know the stall speed due to extra weight and degraded wing performance. And it gets worse - the previously clean and identical (or as close as makes no difference) wings, are now contaminated to differing degrees. So the wings will stall earlier and at differing times. So just at rotate, you raise the nose and stall ONE wing causing a rolling manoeuvre with low airspeed and high AOA - the perfect conditions for spin entry. You won't spin of course but the half flick roll into the concrete is usually terminal.
This is exactly what happened to the biz jet at Brum a few years ago.
If there is contamination on the wing DO NOT GO.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lincolnshire
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Interesting CHIRP Question!!
Its not actually the weight which is the issue as this is negligible in relation to the weight of the fuel burned but the effect on lift, stall speed and increased drag. You are quite right, all performance data is collated and refers to and is applicable to a clean airframe so they do in fact go out of the window. Even a small amount of contamination can cause early airflow separation and ice compared to medium grain sandpaper can increase the drag on an aircraft by 25% and that does make a difference!!. With reference to the Birmingham accident, the aircraft landed and was refuelled. It stood on the apron with a quartering tailwind and the wind blew the hot air from the APU across one of the wings which cleared an ice build up. The decision was made not to de ice and as the aircraft subsequently attempted to rotate, an uncommanded roll occured due to the clean wing genrating more lift than the contaminated wing which due to the aircraft being so close to the ground, the pilot was unable to recover and the result is now in the AAIB records.
If there is cotamination on the aircraft. DE-ICE!!!!!!
If there is cotamination on the aircraft. DE-ICE!!!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Problem with this sort of attitude is that it displays a stunning lack of awareness...
1-2-go, I apologize for the attempt at sarcasm in my above post. I thought it was fairly obvious, but I guess I was wrong. I will henceforth add the appropriate smilies to avoid misunderstandings.
