The Quiet Ones
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The Quiet Ones
Question to you Cabin Crew -
Is it inexcusable for either the flight crew up front not to talk with the passengers at least once in the flight? (I am talking about before push back through to 10mins before landing).
The reason I ask - last night on an RJ85 we SLF didn't get spoken too. I told the cabin crew when I got off to thank the pilot for his great hosptiality. She replied that he was probably too busy to talk to the passengers - b&%%&"ks I say
What do you Cabin crew think of such flight crew?
Is it inexcusable for either the flight crew up front not to talk with the passengers at least once in the flight? (I am talking about before push back through to 10mins before landing).
The reason I ask - last night on an RJ85 we SLF didn't get spoken too. I told the cabin crew when I got off to thank the pilot for his great hosptiality. She replied that he was probably too busy to talk to the passengers - b&%%&"ks I say
What do you Cabin crew think of such flight crew?
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The quiet ones
Had plenty of short flights where the flight crew havent had time to speak to the PAX. Also there maybe a problem that the PAX are not aware of that the flight crew are working hard to solve. Although it is nice to hear from the flight crew during the flight, I'd rather they be concentrating on doing their job and flying the aircraft to get us all there safely than talking to the PAX. In some cases no news is good news!
Regards tinyflyerBHX
Regards tinyflyerBHX
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There are plenty of times where the flight crew have told me to carry on with my safety announcement as they as too busy to talk to the pax. There are many raesons for this. ..... they have preflight checks to do, pushback checks to do, pre flight briefings to do ( which can't always be done on a quick turnaround as pax are boarding due to problems with gate, bags, tech problems and dispatchers always interupting them,) it may also be a short taxi to runway, so its more important to get on their way then speak to the SLF afterwards. Don't be alarmes when they dont speak to you on the ground, as they are not sitting up there doing nothing believe me!!!!
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I told the cabin crew when I got off to thank the pilot for his great hosptiality. She replied that he was probably too busy to talk to the passengers - b&%%&"ks I say
What do you Cabin crew think of such flight crew?
What do you Cabin crew think of such flight crew?
"Inexcusable"? What does that have to do with anything? As other posters have pointed out, the flight crew might have been dealing with problems you didn't know about. Or perhaps you'd rather the flight deck were busy making PAs instead of looking after the safety of everyone on board? Sorry to sound harsh but the crew is not there to entertain the pax.
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Thanks for the comments -
I can accept the comments about the work load - although I have done the same flight for the last two years. This airline are known not to address the passengers until 'approaching the active runway' - this wasn't even down last night.
I hadn't thought about them dealing with a possible issue through cruise/decend into my home airport.
Hadn't happend before and I thought it was a bit rude - I guess I should accept it and move on
Much more important things happening in the world!!
I can accept the comments about the work load - although I have done the same flight for the last two years. This airline are known not to address the passengers until 'approaching the active runway' - this wasn't even down last night.
I hadn't thought about them dealing with a possible issue through cruise/decend into my home airport.
Hadn't happend before and I thought it was a bit rude - I guess I should accept it and move on
Much more important things happening in the world!!
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I, on the other hand, think the sheer amount of so called "hospitality" these days is absolutely ridiculous. You are welcomed at the gate. You are welcomed when boarding. You are welcomed as you pass midway through the cabin. You are then welcomed over the PA, then from the cockpit. Then, after the seatbelt signs are off, you are then reminded that they were turned off, and welcomed again. Enroute you may be welcomed once more along with the landing forecast. Then we are all reminded once more that we are about to land, and that we have to fasten our seatbelts, as if the sign was too hard to read, or we didn't hear it the first time. Upon arrival, we are notified that we have indeed landed, for those who didn't figure, welcomed to the new airport, and given thanks. More thanks as we exit the aircraft.
On one particular leg about 1:50 long, beautiful weather all the way, the crew up front gave us SLF a detailed description of what we could see to the left and right and how the flight was to progress, probably 7 or 8 times. Could have been ok, but for a flight that leaves at 7 am in the morning, with probably a lot of transit pax, not so good as a lot of us, my self included, was trying to catch some sleep.
The less said, the better. There's courtesy and hospitality, and there's "thank you for shopping at walmart" - like you give a crap. If you have something important to say, say it, if you don't, well, don't.
Hat, coat, door...
On one particular leg about 1:50 long, beautiful weather all the way, the crew up front gave us SLF a detailed description of what we could see to the left and right and how the flight was to progress, probably 7 or 8 times. Could have been ok, but for a flight that leaves at 7 am in the morning, with probably a lot of transit pax, not so good as a lot of us, my self included, was trying to catch some sleep.
The less said, the better. There's courtesy and hospitality, and there's "thank you for shopping at walmart" - like you give a crap. If you have something important to say, say it, if you don't, well, don't.
Hat, coat, door...
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Hi,
the flight ops manual for each specific airline will give guidance on what level of communication is required between flightdeck crew and passengers.
I am a fan of keeping it to a bare minimum if possible. Thats from a crew and passenger point of view. For passengers travelling frequently its gets wearsome very quickly. For a crew flying multiple sectors with a minimum amount of time spent on the ground then its probably not a main priority.
Talking on the PA whilst stopped and brakes set is fine. Not so keen on talking for any length of time whilst on the move.
Lots of info seems to be repeated, crew names, flight times, destination temp, local time etc which i feel is unnecessary.
A huge divide in the experience of the passengers travelling, so whats good for some does not suit others.
Rgds.
the flight ops manual for each specific airline will give guidance on what level of communication is required between flightdeck crew and passengers.
I am a fan of keeping it to a bare minimum if possible. Thats from a crew and passenger point of view. For passengers travelling frequently its gets wearsome very quickly. For a crew flying multiple sectors with a minimum amount of time spent on the ground then its probably not a main priority.
Talking on the PA whilst stopped and brakes set is fine. Not so keen on talking for any length of time whilst on the move.
Lots of info seems to be repeated, crew names, flight times, destination temp, local time etc which i feel is unnecessary.
A huge divide in the experience of the passengers travelling, so whats good for some does not suit others.
Rgds.
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I fly as a pax 2 or 3 times a month with a large airline on 90 minute flights.
I have never been on a flight when the pilots have said nothing. I accept their priority is to fly us safely and more important issues over-ride the requirement for them to speak over the pa.
However, it is nice to hear their voices with an update about the progress of the flight etc and is good customer service from them in recognition of the custom we have given their company.
I find it hard to believe some people think they should remain silent if they have the time to speak.
I have never been on a flight when the pilots have said nothing. I accept their priority is to fly us safely and more important issues over-ride the requirement for them to speak over the pa.
However, it is nice to hear their voices with an update about the progress of the flight etc and is good customer service from them in recognition of the custom we have given their company.
I find it hard to believe some people think they should remain silent if they have the time to speak.
What I dislike most about cabin announcements is when the cabin crew are thanked for their hard work over the pa. Praise and gratitude in my opinion should be given in private. It happened last week when there must have been fewer than 40 pax on the flight.
This is in no way a criticism of the service the cabin crew provide, they always work hard and do a good job in a professional manner. The flight experience is so much more professional when the pilots introduce themselves etc (if they have the time of course)
This is in no way a criticism of the service the cabin crew provide, they always work hard and do a good job in a professional manner. The flight experience is so much more professional when the pilots introduce themselves etc (if they have the time of course)
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I was on a Garuda 747 many years ago where the cabin crew passed around a sheet of paper to the passengers with the captain's name, our cruising level, our route, estimated time of arrival etc. This was in-lieu of the flight crew making an announcement to the passengers on the PA. I'm not sure why they did this, but it sure was quite an "interesting" experience. My guess is that the PA system on the flight deck was probably not working ..hehehehehe .. it was an old aircraft with bits of the interior panel falling off.
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Of course it is excusable for flight crew not to talk to the passengers although it is not ideal! It depends on the length of the sector.
Company policy is always to do a PA. Flying is all about priorities and sometimes PAs are near the bottom of the list, sorry. There are times when it just isn't practical to do a PA for example when trying to meet a very tight air traffic control restriction before departure, or when given a last minute runway change before the top of descent, the aircraft has to be set up for the new approach and the approach rebriefed (note the CAA frown upon PAs during the descent).
ACARs, I am sure there was a very good reason you did not hear a PA.
Company policy is always to do a PA. Flying is all about priorities and sometimes PAs are near the bottom of the list, sorry. There are times when it just isn't practical to do a PA for example when trying to meet a very tight air traffic control restriction before departure, or when given a last minute runway change before the top of descent, the aircraft has to be set up for the new approach and the approach rebriefed (note the CAA frown upon PAs during the descent).
ACARs, I am sure there was a very good reason you did not hear a PA.
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Operational guidance aside, some people are naturally happier to talk more than others. Some people you can't shut up others are quite happy not saying a word. I remember a time when we took a bunch of pilots off cargo duties and put them on to passenger duties, most spoke not a single word for what were 8-9 hour sectors, (propably just as well actually!!), but some were so enthused about carrying passengers they just couldn't keep quiet......'now if you look to your left, about half way along the wing, you should see the inner engine. And just a little further beyond that is the outer engine, some of you maybe lucky enough to glance just beyond that and see the wing tip.' !!!! for 9 hours jeez!!
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ACARS,
Just an example (for a laugh). Unbelievably this happens more often than you think!
Our company expects us (as flight crew) to make a P.A, and gives suggested times and rough content. On the ground, as you can imagine, airlines tend to schedule minimum turnarounds. It only takes one or two things to happen (problem with loading, change in fuel order etc) and you are left in the situation of either pushing back straight away, or remaining at the gate for 2 minutes to make a PA. Obviously, pushback is the right answer.
On taxi, if it is a long, straight and uncomplicated taxi, then we would endeavour to do one then. If it is busy, or a complex/short taxi, then you just don't get the chance.
Airborn, then it depends on the sector length and initial workload. Los Angeles to Sydney, for example. After takeoff until top of climb can be busy, and if weather deviations, or any number of things come up, it could be 20 mins until we can make a P.A. If the CSM has started the movies for the flight, and its 20mins into cruise, a lot of passengers will be sleeping, or engrossed in the movie so best not make a P.A. and disturb everyone.
Just prior to top of descent, everyone will be awake and we'll try to make one then. Again, ATC delays, holding patterns, speed ups, weather deviations, runway changes, and of course murphy means these all happen about 10 mins from top of descent.
All of a sudden you've been busy for 30 mins out of a 16 hour flight, but you haven't had time for a P.A!
Of course, the other option is that the crew were lazy gits and didn't like speaking on the P.A
Just an example (for a laugh). Unbelievably this happens more often than you think!
Our company expects us (as flight crew) to make a P.A, and gives suggested times and rough content. On the ground, as you can imagine, airlines tend to schedule minimum turnarounds. It only takes one or two things to happen (problem with loading, change in fuel order etc) and you are left in the situation of either pushing back straight away, or remaining at the gate for 2 minutes to make a PA. Obviously, pushback is the right answer.
On taxi, if it is a long, straight and uncomplicated taxi, then we would endeavour to do one then. If it is busy, or a complex/short taxi, then you just don't get the chance.
Airborn, then it depends on the sector length and initial workload. Los Angeles to Sydney, for example. After takeoff until top of climb can be busy, and if weather deviations, or any number of things come up, it could be 20 mins until we can make a P.A. If the CSM has started the movies for the flight, and its 20mins into cruise, a lot of passengers will be sleeping, or engrossed in the movie so best not make a P.A. and disturb everyone.
Just prior to top of descent, everyone will be awake and we'll try to make one then. Again, ATC delays, holding patterns, speed ups, weather deviations, runway changes, and of course murphy means these all happen about 10 mins from top of descent.
All of a sudden you've been busy for 30 mins out of a 16 hour flight, but you haven't had time for a P.A!
Of course, the other option is that the crew were lazy gits and didn't like speaking on the P.A
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Chesirekitty - I think telling the OP to get a alife is inappropriate - No PA announcement is lack of customer service skills fullstop.
I have flown twice a week for two years on the same airline/same route. I know enough about flying to know that one of them should have found two minutes to speak to the passengers.
Believe it or not some passengers to have the utmost respect for flight crew - I prefer to hear something about the route/weather/eta. Others don't give a flying duck.
I think the crew in question should have flown with the Pilot from a few weeks back who whilst applying power to start the take up run from the numbers on 25R said to the passengers "let's see if this thing flies".
I have flown twice a week for two years on the same airline/same route. I know enough about flying to know that one of them should have found two minutes to speak to the passengers.
Believe it or not some passengers to have the utmost respect for flight crew - I prefer to hear something about the route/weather/eta. Others don't give a flying duck.
I think the crew in question should have flown with the Pilot from a few weeks back who whilst applying power to start the take up run from the numbers on 25R said to the passengers "let's see if this thing flies".
I think the posts have been pretty clear. Whilst it is very welcoming to hear a PA from the cockpit, there are very good reasons why on some occasions there is no time or opportunity for one. Just read the post of 'a comfy chair' again.
-If things are running behind schedule a bit, do you prefer the crew to depart on time or do you prefer a two minute delay just for your hospitality PA?
-Do you actually want the flight deck talking to you during what is potentially a very critical phase of your flight, the taxi out?
-At 5 in the morning reaching cruising altitude, do you want to hear how high you are, or do you just want to sleep?
-Some company policy actually prohibits PA during taxi, takeoff, climb descent and landing. Believe it or not sometimes your flightdeck has every intention to do a PA 'half an hour before arrival' when suddenly ATC gives them an early descent...
Now I know some individual pilots who are not keen on PA's or just plain lazy. But they are a minority in my opinion. The factors mentioned above happen far more often. By the way ACARS, why don't you ask this question in a pilot's forum? Trying to rally the cabin crew behind you? They have other worries then wether or not the pilot is doing his PA, believe me. The cabin crew have this great ability to tune out all non-essential blabla. Evidenced by the fact that 90% of times they call the flightdeck asking 'what time are we landing' mere minutes after we have informed the passengers of that very fact in multiple languages!
-If things are running behind schedule a bit, do you prefer the crew to depart on time or do you prefer a two minute delay just for your hospitality PA?
-Do you actually want the flight deck talking to you during what is potentially a very critical phase of your flight, the taxi out?
-At 5 in the morning reaching cruising altitude, do you want to hear how high you are, or do you just want to sleep?
-Some company policy actually prohibits PA during taxi, takeoff, climb descent and landing. Believe it or not sometimes your flightdeck has every intention to do a PA 'half an hour before arrival' when suddenly ATC gives them an early descent...
Now I know some individual pilots who are not keen on PA's or just plain lazy. But they are a minority in my opinion. The factors mentioned above happen far more often. By the way ACARS, why don't you ask this question in a pilot's forum? Trying to rally the cabin crew behind you? They have other worries then wether or not the pilot is doing his PA, believe me. The cabin crew have this great ability to tune out all non-essential blabla. Evidenced by the fact that 90% of times they call the flightdeck asking 'what time are we landing' mere minutes after we have informed the passengers of that very fact in multiple languages!
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ACARS, I am a pilot, I strayed on to here today. I work for a African Airline, we fly a mix of Arabic and French speakers. I am English, I don't speak French or Arabic. So I normally do not bother with a speech, although sometimes I do give a PA, but it is in English.
Just because you have travelled on a route frequently does not mean you are aware of everything that goes on up front and that we should find two mins to talk to you. I was taught a very good lesson when I was a PPL, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, this has served me well.
I agree there is nothing nicer than having a PA, when I am pax, but I would not consider it rude for one not to be given.
Happy flying and sorry for the intrusion on to the Cabin Crew forum
FC
Just because you have travelled on a route frequently does not mean you are aware of everything that goes on up front and that we should find two mins to talk to you. I was taught a very good lesson when I was a PPL, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, this has served me well.
I agree there is nothing nicer than having a PA, when I am pax, but I would not consider it rude for one not to be given.
Happy flying and sorry for the intrusion on to the Cabin Crew forum
FC
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For 20 years I happily tuned out PAs. When I became Purser I had to forcibly retrain myself to pay attention.
.. and even after 8 years as Senior Dragon, it still occasionally happens that I have to check the Flight Track system for our ETA after realising that the pilots have just said "something" via the PAS. A deeply ingrained CC habit as you say...
ACARS, 9 people have now taken the time to explain in a friendly manner why sometimes there is simply no time for a cockpit PA. A Comfy Chair has in addition kindly given you different real-life examples of when and why such situations can arise.
All in all demonstrating convincingly why your initial leading question and your reaction of "bølløx" to a most likely truthful answer from the CC were both .. let's say.. not necessarily justified.
Why not take your own advice from post 5 eh?
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Acars,
There is no harm in asking a sensible question which your's was. There are virtually no airline pilots who do not make cabin announcements on every flight they make, they are a very decent bunch of people.
There is no harm in asking a sensible question which your's was. There are virtually no airline pilots who do not make cabin announcements on every flight they make, they are a very decent bunch of people.
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I was on an AA flight into LHR on 14 January. LHR was covered in a lovely layer of fog, so we were in a hold for around 30 minutes. All we got was an understandably grumpy pa from the flight deck saying that "you may have noticed that we're making lots of right turns up here, well air traffic control have told us we'll be here for a while". When we then left the hold, we were obviously not far off landing but had not heard anything further over the pa. The cabin crew were still collecting trash at this point. One of the cabin crew then made an announcement that they thought we were close to landing and that our tray tables should be up..." and as she said that, we emerged from the fog and touched down on the runway! The passengers laughed and cheered at this point, and the announcement continued "...well we obviously have now landed".
This struck me are really bad for the cabin crew. We were at the back of plane, in the rearmost section of economy, and the cabin crew member who was sitting in the rearward facing seat at the exit, had sat down and belted up a mere 5 seconds before we hit the runway. Clearly the message that the landing was about to happen had not been relayed properly to all of crew. Surely not the safest way of doing things for the crew.
This struck me are really bad for the cabin crew. We were at the back of plane, in the rearmost section of economy, and the cabin crew member who was sitting in the rearward facing seat at the exit, had sat down and belted up a mere 5 seconds before we hit the runway. Clearly the message that the landing was about to happen had not been relayed properly to all of crew. Surely not the safest way of doing things for the crew.