Rude but not aggressive passengers
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.
Read my post again and you will will note that I said "This year to date, I have observed"
Does this enlighten you?
Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.
Read my post again and you will will note that I said "This year to date, I have observed"
Does this enlighten you?
In the mean time you fail to observe the crew member diplomatically dealing with the gobsheen in row 10 or the mother who swears she is the very first person to travel alone with a child in the history of human kind in row 20 and is making the crews day hell resulting in them making the most of the few minutes of calm that exists following the cabin secure checks and the taxi to the end of the runway!!!
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Paddy
Put away your outrageous indigation, for what I said was (a) fact and (b) no less blinkered than the specific comment I was responding to, which was about business thinking safety rules didn;t apply to them..
When I learned to fly, it was an offence under the ANO to depart with people who were not strapped in.
I am interested that you seem to consider this an 'itty biitty little thing.' An 'itty bitty little thing' for me is hearing indiscrete chit chat etc. and I don't worry about that at all.
CC on this forum complain about pax walking about when the seat belt sign is illuminated and say that it is a lawful commander's instruction (true) and I fully support them.
But you can't have it both ways my old china.
Put away your outrageous indigation, for what I said was (a) fact and (b) no less blinkered than the specific comment I was responding to, which was about business thinking safety rules didn;t apply to them..
every itty bitty little thing that you feel inappropriate or incorrect that the crew do.
I am interested that you seem to consider this an 'itty biitty little thing.' An 'itty bitty little thing' for me is hearing indiscrete chit chat etc. and I don't worry about that at all.
CC on this forum complain about pax walking about when the seat belt sign is illuminated and say that it is a lawful commander's instruction (true) and I fully support them.
But you can't have it both ways my old china.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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It's a difficult call, and as long as you respond to their rudeness in a good way, further disruption can be avoided.
Alcohol is more often than not the cause or a manifestation of their own stress (often nothing to do with the airline, just their high maintenance lifestyle.
)
I had one young guy among a group once, travelling Business who thought he was the hotshot bar none.
It was a night flight to South America.
He showed off by getting increasingly rude and demanding towards the crew, and quickly got drunk by obtaining drinks from 6 different crewmembers.
Eventually we had a word with him,subtly and diplomatically which he took as a cue to get really nasty.
All of his colleagues got up and told him in no uncertain terms that he was making a fool of himself (in front of his boss) and to shut up and apologise.
He refused to apologise and was also issued a warning letter.
We weren't bothered he didn't apologise,you meet these types now and then, part of the job.
Later in the flight when all were asleep, he woke up choking on the litre of red wine he'd drunk - within seconds it was all down his (white) shirt ,suit and partly on his colleague/the aircraft bulkhead!
After we'd assisted and checked he was okay, he almost demanded that one of us give him one of our packed work shirts to improve his appearance/get out of the reeking wet shirt. Now, with anyone else we probably would have done - with this joker no way
Alcohol is more often than not the cause or a manifestation of their own stress (often nothing to do with the airline, just their high maintenance lifestyle.
)I had one young guy among a group once, travelling Business who thought he was the hotshot bar none.
It was a night flight to South America.
He showed off by getting increasingly rude and demanding towards the crew, and quickly got drunk by obtaining drinks from 6 different crewmembers.
Eventually we had a word with him,subtly and diplomatically which he took as a cue to get really nasty.
All of his colleagues got up and told him in no uncertain terms that he was making a fool of himself (in front of his boss) and to shut up and apologise.
He refused to apologise and was also issued a warning letter.
We weren't bothered he didn't apologise,you meet these types now and then, part of the job.
Later in the flight when all were asleep, he woke up choking on the litre of red wine he'd drunk - within seconds it was all down his (white) shirt ,suit and partly on his colleague/the aircraft bulkhead!
After we'd assisted and checked he was okay, he almost demanded that one of us give him one of our packed work shirts to improve his appearance/get out of the reeking wet shirt. Now, with anyone else we probably would have done - with this joker no way
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That is truly appalling behaviour.
I must be lucky, because I don't see this kind of behaviour (I am not challenging your description of events.)
I've seen some other pax be rude (in fact, the last occurence was only last week), but never anyone behave this way.
Unbelievable.
Let me also say that your colleagues and you must have demonstrated some high quality customer facing skills in dealing with that incident.
On a more practical note, I always carry a spare shirt on overnight flights (normally a long sleeved polo to keep me warm when sleeping) and am surprised that such a hotshot wouldn't.
That is truly appalling behaviour.
I must be lucky, because I don't see this kind of behaviour (I am not challenging your description of events.)
I've seen some other pax be rude (in fact, the last occurence was only last week), but never anyone behave this way.
Unbelievable.
Let me also say that your colleagues and you must have demonstrated some high quality customer facing skills in dealing with that incident.
On a more practical note, I always carry a spare shirt on overnight flights (normally a long sleeved polo to keep me warm when sleeping) and am surprised that such a hotshot wouldn't.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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How about a warning on tickets and on the inflight entertainment screen that says -
"Any pax ignoring the seat belt or safety instructions from CC will recieve no form of compensation from this airline in the event of injury"
"Any pax ignoring the seat belt or safety instructions from CC will recieve no form of compensation from this airline in the event of injury"
JsJ
Join Date: Jun 2004
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When I learned to fly, it was an offence under the ANO to depart with people who were not strapped in.
I am interested that you seem to consider this an 'itty biitty little thing.' An 'itty bitty little thing' for me is hearing indiscrete chit chat etc. and I don't worry about that at all.
CC on this forum complain about pax walking about when the seat belt sign is illuminated and say that it is a lawful commander's instruction (true) and I fully support them.
I am interested that you seem to consider this an 'itty biitty little thing.' An 'itty bitty little thing' for me is hearing indiscrete chit chat etc. and I don't worry about that at all.
CC on this forum complain about pax walking about when the seat belt sign is illuminated and say that it is a lawful commander's instruction (true) and I fully support them.
Actually Im not referring to the passengers not being strapped in as an itty bitty thing. Of course it is a big thing. Im referring to your point that you have never observed a passenger unfastened to their seat during take off yet you have seen crew where they shouldnt be. But then you are sitting strapped into row 1 and clearly are not in a position to be aware of what is going on outside of your eye and ear shot whatsoever.
Sadly passengers do have an "issue" with being buckled up and indeed many of them do discretely unfasten their seat belts once the cabin crew have completed their secure checks. It happens all the time and sadly I notice it more in the premium cabins from people who seem to think they are above all lawful requirements. Now as for these people, I personally could not care less if their actions cos them injury however I do have a problem with these selfish people causing injury to others and I am sure most would agree.
However as for making comments to passengers regarding the airlines liability in situations such as this, sadly it will not stand in a court of law as airlines are indeed liable for anyone in their charge. We can claim to a passenger that they are not insured and that they are disobeying the lawful command of aircrew however I can assure you that if something happens and it goes to court even a rookie lawyer will find a way to prosecute the airline. At BA we have been told never to claim that the passenger will be liable should they cause any injury when moving about a cabin when they should be seated for just this reason, not sure if its because they have learned their lesson but generally that is how these truths out!
Rudeness in all walks of life is on the increase: the lack of basic manners in people is one of the most depressing things in modern life. It's not surprising that CC get exposed to it more frequently as they are dealing with large numbers of people every working day.
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Actually Im not referring to the passengers not being strapped in as an itty bitty thing
Whether anyone else was is not relevant to the point I was making.
Anyway, time to move on.
We all seem to agree that people who do not respect the seat belt sign are idiots.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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When I was cabin crew many years ago I found that the words 'I am a businessman' tended to be a precursor to behaviour normally associated with our old favorite 'do you know who I am!'
To which the new favourite response is "Excuse me everyone, there's a gentlemen here who doesn't know who he is. Can anyone help at all please?"
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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I was once in the dreadful queue at JFK for immigration, you know what I mean, a dozen 747s arrive at once and immigration are totally taken by surprise, as if it had never happened before. A bloke barges to the front of the queue. Some people remonstrate. He wheels out the "Do you know who I am" routine. Sardonic immigration man says "Jesus fecking christ, got the whole United Nations coming through, and now I've got a guy who does not know who he is"
PAX did not get to beat the queue, the rest of us enjoyed the response and waited with better grace. I dare say not a response in any manual, but a good reaction as it turned out.
PAX did not get to beat the queue, the rest of us enjoyed the response and waited with better grace. I dare say not a response in any manual, but a good reaction as it turned out.
Discipline in the Cabin in the West is one thing. I have flown for an Airline (South East Asian) where the concept of Passenger Management is unheard of.
The Commanders were first rate, Professional and almost with exception very kind individuals who tolerated no SOP deviation up front - total Aces - the CC were of a different character (and planet perhaps) altogether. I often wondered who was in command of the a/c.
You dare not confront them either. Your life would be hell. And they knew it.
However I rather miss working there - it was another world.
The Commanders were first rate, Professional and almost with exception very kind individuals who tolerated no SOP deviation up front - total Aces - the CC were of a different character (and planet perhaps) altogether. I often wondered who was in command of the a/c.
You dare not confront them either. Your life would be hell. And they knew it.
However I rather miss working there - it was another world.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Not Strapped In.
I have seen CC out of their seats, in that case also due to an engrossing private (content) conversation at public (volume). In that case down the back on Easyjet. I have also departed with the guy next to me with NO seatbelt. The clasp was missing, torn off, the plane was full, last flight AF, Orly to Nice Friday night. I went to call the CC about it and the guy said to me that I should shut up or he would be thrown off the flight, If I felt so strongly about it then why not swap seats with him and be offloaded. After we landed I asked for his boarding card and handed it in as I left the plane saying that the belt was broken, I got such a mouthful from the stewardess (who did not care to listen that it was not my seat) that I was not surprised that no-one reported it earlier in the day.
However, my pet hate is this:
'CC who have not been trained how to open overhead lockers properly'
The number of times that I have seen these things popped open like there was a competition to see who could get them to bounce open the fastest is incredible. Most airlines do it properly, open slowly, look inside, put hand inside etc., etc, but I have to say that I think Easyjet missed this from their training. This is a surprise because in many other respects they seem really keen on safety and they check underseat storage better than anyone, they just seem to have a blind spot on overhead lockers. I have seen lots of coats fall out and a couple of bags too, so far with no-one really hurt but the last time only because I got my arm in the way before it hit the old lady's head.
So, is it not included in the training or is it just that CC height limits are lower, I have to admit that most cases involved CC who were short?
However, my pet hate is this:
'CC who have not been trained how to open overhead lockers properly'
The number of times that I have seen these things popped open like there was a competition to see who could get them to bounce open the fastest is incredible. Most airlines do it properly, open slowly, look inside, put hand inside etc., etc, but I have to say that I think Easyjet missed this from their training. This is a surprise because in many other respects they seem really keen on safety and they check underseat storage better than anyone, they just seem to have a blind spot on overhead lockers. I have seen lots of coats fall out and a couple of bags too, so far with no-one really hurt but the last time only because I got my arm in the way before it hit the old lady's head.
So, is it not included in the training or is it just that CC height limits are lower, I have to admit that most cases involved CC who were short?
Join Date: Jun 2005
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The 'Opening overhead lockers' training course is usually sandwiched between the emergency firefighting/dealing with disruptive passengers and the life raft survival/pilot incapacitation drills.
Unfortunately, with the self defence/restraint training and 29 exams, it is often not given the full attention it deserves.
"the trouble with common sense is that it is not that common"
JsJ
Unfortunately, with the self defence/restraint training and 29 exams, it is often not given the full attention it deserves.
"the trouble with common sense is that it is not that common"
JsJ
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I would hope that I'm not rude to anyone, but I've always abided by two rules in particular:
- Never be rude to people who serve you food
- Never be rude to people who cut your hair
These have both served me well to date (although people who look at me may disagree that I haven't broken the second one!).
- Never be rude to people who serve you food
- Never be rude to people who cut your hair
These have both served me well to date (although people who look at me may disagree that I haven't broken the second one!).
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You all seem to have it in for businessmen. My experience is that most of us are knackered most of the time, and all we want is a quiet life. Wine us, dine us, dim the lights, let us go to sleep. The most outrageous behaviour I have seen in business class is from people who obviously don't fly there very often and think the whole point of the exercise is to get drunk. As a general statement, the more senior the guy the less he has to prove. It is the people who have not made it who make a fuss. Just feel sorry for them.
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You all seem to have it in for businessmen. My experience is that most of us are knackered most of the time, and all we want is a quiet life. Wine us, dine us, dim the lights, let us go to sleep. The most outrageous behaviour I have seen in business class is from people who obviously don't fly there very often and think the whole point of the exercise is to get drunk. As a general statement, the more senior the guy the less he has to prove. It is the people who have not made it who make a fuss. Just feel sorry for them.
The frequent travelers know what is on offer, and know the procedures. No fuss, just make sure the seat works, the white wine is chilled and the meal service doesn't take 3 hours. They appreciate competence more than all the service frills.
Like you said, it's the up-and-comers and the wannabes who think they have to prove how important they are who increase the workload and monopolize the crew's time.