QANTAS - Divisional Transfer for 16 SYD CSM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Warehouse of Excellence
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A LH F/A (now correct me if I am wrong) would make pretty much the same as a SH CSM...depending on seniority and trips of course, so money is not so much a factor in this case. I suppose some who took the offer were a bit confident of themselves, thinking maybe they will get the re-upgrade again, then again, maybe some of them are enjoying the opportunity to travel the world and couldn't give a rat's about being a CSM anymore. Case in point.....some ex AO people who became CSMs when CNS started up...then went to QCCA thinking that they would get a re-upgrade again.....unfortunately this was not the case. Its quite obvious then that once you give up the gold-red-now platinum tie....you let it go forever. Also another case in point...some who were ex-AO Cabin Managers , never got CSM when they became Qantas. So history shows that pretty much, once you downgrade, the stats are against you.
In the history of QCCA....only one QCCA person has been made CSM and 27 made into CSS. That one CSM is my friend...you may be familiar with him..."A.G."
In the history of QCCA....only one QCCA person has been made CSM and 27 made into CSS. That one CSM is my friend...you may be familiar with him..."A.G."
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Warehouse of Excellence
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Opps...I think I was being a bit vague in my previous post.
All 48 people who transferred this year will go under part 1 of the International EBA 8.
Ex AO F/A are not eligible to be on the divisional transfer list as they have to serve 2 years before placing their name on the list. That is, 2 years since they got absorbed into QF. So some CNS based CSMs left to go to LH...the only way they could get in was via QCCA. They thought they could walk into their old jobs as CSMs again, but they were unfortunately mistaken.
Currently on the A380, there is a cap of 20% QAL crew and 80% QCCA crew. It is obvious that the company does not want to have the existing LH culture on the A380 so therefore they have put a limit on how many QAL can work on it. Currently as it stands, not many have gone across. All promotions on the A380 for OBM during the start up phase (that is, first 4 aircraft) is reserved purely for QAL crew...after that, it is a free for all. Each A380 requires 100 cabin crew to keep operational within the network...this figure includes 12 CSM and 12 CSS.
You see, Qantas is very smart....they have put a limit on how many QAL crew can work on the A380 and soon they will begin to retire 747...so more and more QAL crew will either have to leave; forced to go join QCCA (that is, part 2 of EBA 8....not secondment), or go to SH.
The company will soon start to freeze the Divisional Transfer List. They are already beginning to freeze the LH Base Transfer list on the 24th Novemeber. Soon, this will spread to freezing SH Base Transfers and eventually Divsional Transfers. The company is very, very smart. We're talking about an 85 year old company who has survived when others have gone financially belly up. Qantas will win in the end...there's no way you or I can stop them....slowly, but surely...they will squeeze every A Scale out of existence and the B Scales will rule.
All 48 people who transferred this year will go under part 1 of the International EBA 8.
Ex AO F/A are not eligible to be on the divisional transfer list as they have to serve 2 years before placing their name on the list. That is, 2 years since they got absorbed into QF. So some CNS based CSMs left to go to LH...the only way they could get in was via QCCA. They thought they could walk into their old jobs as CSMs again, but they were unfortunately mistaken.
Currently on the A380, there is a cap of 20% QAL crew and 80% QCCA crew. It is obvious that the company does not want to have the existing LH culture on the A380 so therefore they have put a limit on how many QAL can work on it. Currently as it stands, not many have gone across. All promotions on the A380 for OBM during the start up phase (that is, first 4 aircraft) is reserved purely for QAL crew...after that, it is a free for all. Each A380 requires 100 cabin crew to keep operational within the network...this figure includes 12 CSM and 12 CSS.
You see, Qantas is very smart....they have put a limit on how many QAL crew can work on the A380 and soon they will begin to retire 747...so more and more QAL crew will either have to leave; forced to go join QCCA (that is, part 2 of EBA 8....not secondment), or go to SH.
The company will soon start to freeze the Divisional Transfer List. They are already beginning to freeze the LH Base Transfer list on the 24th Novemeber. Soon, this will spread to freezing SH Base Transfers and eventually Divsional Transfers. The company is very, very smart. We're talking about an 85 year old company who has survived when others have gone financially belly up. Qantas will win in the end...there's no way you or I can stop them....slowly, but surely...they will squeeze every A Scale out of existence and the B Scales will rule.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Warehouse of Excellence
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst on the topic of A380.....(and I am sorry for steering this thread in a slightly different direction)......
.....a lot of Short Haulers seem to think that the company are in major finger biting, knee bending desperation for crew to work on the A380. Just remember this...we are all sh*t kickers in this job...we are not university honours graduates with skills that the company are begging for....we are replaceable....and ANYONE can be trained to push a cart and open an aircraft door. The company is NOT THAT PERCEIVABLY STUPID to leave themselves open to a shortage....if they really wanted to flex their muscle during times of recruitment freeze...they will shuffle crew across the company about in any way that works for them:
1. Conscript QCCA 747 crew to work on A380
2. Mobilise crew from SH via Div Transfers to fill in gaps left by QCCA mainline crew at LH.
3. Shut down CNS base. Spread the CNS crew around the country...and if there is a crew shortage after that....then the company will then decide to give some domestic flying to Jetstar to meet the shortage.
I bet any money this is what will happen if they decide not to dissolve the recruitment freeze to hire more crew.
.....a lot of Short Haulers seem to think that the company are in major finger biting, knee bending desperation for crew to work on the A380. Just remember this...we are all sh*t kickers in this job...we are not university honours graduates with skills that the company are begging for....we are replaceable....and ANYONE can be trained to push a cart and open an aircraft door. The company is NOT THAT PERCEIVABLY STUPID to leave themselves open to a shortage....if they really wanted to flex their muscle during times of recruitment freeze...they will shuffle crew across the company about in any way that works for them:
1. Conscript QCCA 747 crew to work on A380
2. Mobilise crew from SH via Div Transfers to fill in gaps left by QCCA mainline crew at LH.
3. Shut down CNS base. Spread the CNS crew around the country...and if there is a crew shortage after that....then the company will then decide to give some domestic flying to Jetstar to meet the shortage.
I bet any money this is what will happen if they decide not to dissolve the recruitment freeze to hire more crew.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: north
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Management have made it well known that they are over crewed in the Cairns Base. Next step will be to balance the numbers around the bases. Once that has been actioned, you'll find all lists will be frozen
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: REAL WORLD
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
those of you are not
happy about this i recommend clause 13 grievance clause. that should give em a run for their money. deafening silence from the LH union. another deal done under the table.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i actually dont know what the problem is. As far as it being an issue for the LH FAAA was a load of horse SH*t.
The LH FAAA has made it clear that the only way a CSM can transfer in category is if there are an equal number going back the other way. Otherwise it would impact potential promotions in the LH division.
As i have said before we are like the foreign legion here in LH. All are welcome...just fit in and play by the rules.
If the SH CSM's think that they will be up for quick promotion then they need to think again. Statistically SH CSMs have taken about 5-6 years to get CSM in LH as all those that are still applying after years and years....
The LH FAAA has made it clear that the only way a CSM can transfer in category is if there are an equal number going back the other way. Otherwise it would impact potential promotions in the LH division.
As i have said before we are like the foreign legion here in LH. All are welcome...just fit in and play by the rules.
If the SH CSM's think that they will be up for quick promotion then they need to think again. Statistically SH CSMs have taken about 5-6 years to get CSM in LH as all those that are still applying after years and years....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Warehouse of Excellence
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pegasus747...I respect your point that it takes ex Biscuit Chuckers approx 5-6 years to get the stripey jacket again...but I sense that these crew will be ported off to the A380 in no time....they will do a B747 conversion course and then give them an A380 conversion course and then offer them the striped jacket again after training school. The company is not allowed to give striped jackets to QCCA crew for the first 4 aircraft...so who else are they going to give it to if QAL aren't having a morsel of the 'Croissant'? Maybe you know something I don't know????? I pray, do tell all and sundry....sharing is caring!!!! lol. 
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Warehouse of Excellence
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just an update....the CSM callout reached no. 220 of the CSMs. They have gotten all 16 CSM now. Even CSMs who put their name down on the list last year got the offer.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A380 Promotions
In LH we have CSS's that are highly competent onboard managers. In my experience a LH CSS is the equivalent or better equipped that a SH CSM (PURSER)
There are currently plenty of very competent CSS"s already on A380 ready to walk into CSM positions on A380. I would suggest that with no significant International Wide Body double decker experience a SH CSM would be hard pressed to get a gig as a CSM on a 747 without going to CSS first.
And if the company started fast tracking the 16 ex SH CSMs to A380 CSM positions it would be a major morale issue and would probably cause the CSS's to take the option and return to 747 land at the end of the two years where they have a right of return and i know that the company would not want that under any circumstances
There are currently plenty of very competent CSS"s already on A380 ready to walk into CSM positions on A380. I would suggest that with no significant International Wide Body double decker experience a SH CSM would be hard pressed to get a gig as a CSM on a 747 without going to CSS first.
And if the company started fast tracking the 16 ex SH CSMs to A380 CSM positions it would be a major morale issue and would probably cause the CSS's to take the option and return to 747 land at the end of the two years where they have a right of return and i know that the company would not want that under any circumstances
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can we please give up the tired rhetoric that SH CSMs are not as capable as LH CSS or CSMs? It goes without saying that most SH CSMs lack the long haul experience of LH CSS ad CSMs. Duh! The vast majority of SH CSMs I worked with on regional flights were more than competent at managing the cabin and abnormal situations. There is always the idiot. Just like a couple of ex-LH CSMs who cannot cope with working on their own in J/C on a 737 - 12 passengers!
This boring old rhetoric has no valid basis - just like the "LH crew are better than SH crew" chestnut. I have seen just as many LH crew make a dog's breakfast of domestic flights (PCF and tandem services - how easy can it be?) as I have of SH crew on regional flights. It all comes down to experience, of which LH crew have more of in relation to international flights. Having flown many international sectors operated by both SH and LH as a pax I can say there is no difference overall, especially in Y/C. Honestly.
I do, however, agree that LH CSMs and SH CSMs should have different titles - given that their training and work environment is different. It would probably avoid the p*ssing contest we witness on here a lot of the time. But the company would loves to add fuel to the LH vs SH fire. Pathetic, really.
Of my soapbox - thanks for listening.
This boring old rhetoric has no valid basis - just like the "LH crew are better than SH crew" chestnut. I have seen just as many LH crew make a dog's breakfast of domestic flights (PCF and tandem services - how easy can it be?) as I have of SH crew on regional flights. It all comes down to experience, of which LH crew have more of in relation to international flights. Having flown many international sectors operated by both SH and LH as a pax I can say there is no difference overall, especially in Y/C. Honestly.
I do, however, agree that LH CSMs and SH CSMs should have different titles - given that their training and work environment is different. It would probably avoid the p*ssing contest we witness on here a lot of the time. But the company would loves to add fuel to the LH vs SH fire. Pathetic, really.
Of my soapbox - thanks for listening.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Downunder
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pegasus747,
when it comes to promotion,Qantas management no longer require potential CSM's to have worked as a CSS.
If they harbour any thoughts of promoting the short-haul CSM's they will do it.
The promotional process is not transparent and over the years I have witnessed many individuals promoted well and truely beyond their capabilities .I have been left bewildered by the fact that extremely intellingent and capable CSS have been over looked by the clueless idiots in the office.
If they are going to give these people the "nod", they will. there are no avenues to appeal their decisions. They will say that the process is merit based.
All future CSM's should work as a CSS for at least 12 months, it should be compulsory. It would be great for experience as it would enable future CSM's to solve problems on a larger scale, Up to 356 customers in Y/C .
Fast tracking promotions is a serious mistake. God help the "worlds most experienced airline".
when it comes to promotion,Qantas management no longer require potential CSM's to have worked as a CSS.
If they harbour any thoughts of promoting the short-haul CSM's they will do it.
The promotional process is not transparent and over the years I have witnessed many individuals promoted well and truely beyond their capabilities .I have been left bewildered by the fact that extremely intellingent and capable CSS have been over looked by the clueless idiots in the office.
If they are going to give these people the "nod", they will. there are no avenues to appeal their decisions. They will say that the process is merit based.
All future CSM's should work as a CSS for at least 12 months, it should be compulsory. It would be great for experience as it would enable future CSM's to solve problems on a larger scale, Up to 356 customers in Y/C .
Fast tracking promotions is a serious mistake. God help the "worlds most experienced airline".
Shazz
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plainly the point has been missed
The CSM's are going across on full pay as a CSM
but have the status of a normal FA
In my book thats a pretty good deal same pay less responsibility
is it not?
Cheers RBZ
The CSM's are going across on full pay as a CSM
but have the status of a normal FA
In my book thats a pretty good deal same pay less responsibility
is it not?
Cheers RBZ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Domestos you are full of your own BS
to say that shorthaul CSMs are not capable as the same responsabilities as long haul CSMs is utterly nonsense.
i have worked under both and can i tell you there are bad and good in both bunchies......................sometimes longhaul need to get off their high horses and admit that other people do their job well and sometimes even better....................and we all need to know we are all just flight attendants working for the same idiot company and we just try to make the best of a bad situaution
to say that shorthaul CSMs are not capable as the same responsabilities as long haul CSMs is utterly nonsense.
i have worked under both and can i tell you there are bad and good in both bunchies......................sometimes longhaul need to get off their high horses and admit that other people do their job well and sometimes even better....................and we all need to know we are all just flight attendants working for the same idiot company and we just try to make the best of a bad situaution
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Warehouse of Excellence
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seatedandsecured.......the last time I squeezed my flesh, nothing brown came out....I think you've mistaken me for some other poster....I never said that SH CSMs are incapable of being a LH CSM...I think you are referring to someone else and hence I forgive you for your slight oversight on this occasion.
What I was referring to was that I think it is unfair that these CSMs get to jump over FAs who have been on the list for years, myself included. In addition, all 16 of these CSMs get direct entry to BFA category as there are "no vacancies in the FA category". Oh well...c'est la vie...what can we do? Just shutup and push our muffin carts.
What is baffling though is that (I'm lead to believe by another post) BFAs are being offered LWOP and yet they are taking on these 16 people. Weird !!!!!!!!
By the way Seatedandsecured.....there are more civilised and nicer ways of telling people that you think they are wrong.
What I was referring to was that I think it is unfair that these CSMs get to jump over FAs who have been on the list for years, myself included. In addition, all 16 of these CSMs get direct entry to BFA category as there are "no vacancies in the FA category". Oh well...c'est la vie...what can we do? Just shutup and push our muffin carts.
What is baffling though is that (I'm lead to believe by another post) BFAs are being offered LWOP and yet they are taking on these 16 people. Weird !!!!!!!!
By the way Seatedandsecured.....there are more civilised and nicer ways of telling people that you think they are wrong.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there are more civilised and nicer ways of telling people that you think they are wrong.
One warning only - this is it.
Thread closures and forum bans will follow instantly for those unable to behave in accordance with the basic tenets of courtesy.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys just to let you know that the CSM's transferring from SH to LH as flight attendants will not be paid as CSM's they will be paid as Year 8 flight attendants.
I dont know where the idea that they would be paid as CSM's came from. If that is what they think is happening then their first pay slip will be a big shock to them. Although i think the base pay for a year 8 flight attendant is about the same as a SH CSM so perhapps not much difference
I dont know where the idea that they would be paid as CSM's came from. If that is what they think is happening then their first pay slip will be a big shock to them. Although i think the base pay for a year 8 flight attendant is about the same as a SH CSM so perhapps not much difference