Do airline crews use the passenger manifest to identify doctors?
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Calling ''doctor'' someone who has a university degree is closer to the etymology of the word, and is still used with this meaning in many countries.
From www.etymonline.com
But it is true that in countries where the custom of calling '''doctor'' someone who has a PhD is not widespread it can be confusing.
Returning to the topic, I have never seen someone listed as ''Dr'' in a PIL in the companies where I've worked, and I wouldn't waste time browsing it. Much faster to make a PA.
...but then, what do I know? The only thing we know is that we don't know anything. And why are we here anyway? ...
doctor
c.1303, "Church father," from O.Fr. doctour, from M.L. doctor "religious teacher, adviser, scholar," from L. doctor "teacher," from doct- stem of docere "to show, teach," originally "make to appear right," causative of decere "be seemly, fitting" (see ''decent''). Familiar form doc first recorded c.1850. Meaning of "holder of highest degree in university" is first found c.1375; that of "medical professional" dates from 1377, though this was not common till late 16c. Verb sense of "alter, disguise, falsify" is first recorded 1774.
c.1303, "Church father," from O.Fr. doctour, from M.L. doctor "religious teacher, adviser, scholar," from L. doctor "teacher," from doct- stem of docere "to show, teach," originally "make to appear right," causative of decere "be seemly, fitting" (see ''decent''). Familiar form doc first recorded c.1850. Meaning of "holder of highest degree in university" is first found c.1375; that of "medical professional" dates from 1377, though this was not common till late 16c. Verb sense of "alter, disguise, falsify" is first recorded 1774.
But it is true that in countries where the custom of calling '''doctor'' someone who has a PhD is not widespread it can be confusing.
Returning to the topic, I have never seen someone listed as ''Dr'' in a PIL in the companies where I've worked, and I wouldn't waste time browsing it. Much faster to make a PA.
...but then, what do I know? The only thing we know is that we don't know anything. And why are we here anyway? ...
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Rainboe nobody with a Phd is going to come running up if you yell for a doctor in the middle of the street. Unless of course they are doing so for good Samaritan reasons. Mind you if you can yell you really don't have a pressing need for a doctor.
The use of Dr. as a title is well deserved if you knew what they had to go through to get it. They generally don't use it in day to day correspondence of a none professional nature. They do use it with the council and other black holes of red tape because it tends to get them past the first line of defense and speaking to someone who can actually do something. Of course there are some that don't but I am sure you have colleagues who have mail sent to Capt xxxx.
Quite alot of the ladies use it because they hate the Miss/Ms/Mrs and it puts sexist twats in thier place very quickly. And I can understand the theory that if there needs to be off loads or upgrades they will last and first in the queue. I have never seen a title in pax lists given to crew but it does come up on the check in screens and dispatch depending what package the company is using.
And Dr. Mo Mowlam had a proper Phd from Iowa which isn't one of the $199 Phd university's.
And Police can also allow you to stop CPR. Although what training they have I don't know.
Maybe it's only the chaps with the MRT and the police dive teams who know they can do it.
The use of Dr. as a title is well deserved if you knew what they had to go through to get it. They generally don't use it in day to day correspondence of a none professional nature. They do use it with the council and other black holes of red tape because it tends to get them past the first line of defense and speaking to someone who can actually do something. Of course there are some that don't but I am sure you have colleagues who have mail sent to Capt xxxx.
Quite alot of the ladies use it because they hate the Miss/Ms/Mrs and it puts sexist twats in thier place very quickly. And I can understand the theory that if there needs to be off loads or upgrades they will last and first in the queue. I have never seen a title in pax lists given to crew but it does come up on the check in screens and dispatch depending what package the company is using.
And Dr. Mo Mowlam had a proper Phd from Iowa which isn't one of the $199 Phd university's.
And Police can also allow you to stop CPR. Although what training they have I don't know.
Maybe it's only the chaps with the MRT and the police dive teams who know they can do it.
Last edited by mad_jock; 17th Oct 2008 at 11:06.
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Rainboe mate, I really think it's time you took a holiday from here. Ranting is one thing, but you're becoming something of a parody of an angry man. Go see your Doctor, take a pill and chill for a while.
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Both myself and my wife have PhDs (astrophysics and history) and if we ever hear a PA announcement for a doctor on board, neither of us will be stupid enough to think we could be of any assistance.
Also when we book tickets using Dr (and PhD after our names as AA allows you to do) we never get upgraded. Not even on our honeymoon.
Just to add to the confusion, there are a couple of people I have encountered in the medical sciences who having obtained PhDs (see if you can guess which country they came from), insisted on being called Dr. Dr.
Also when we book tickets using Dr (and PhD after our names as AA allows you to do) we never get upgraded. Not even on our honeymoon.
Just to add to the confusion, there are a couple of people I have encountered in the medical sciences who having obtained PhDs (see if you can guess which country they came from), insisted on being called Dr. Dr.
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To answer Jerboy's question:
No offence to doctors intended, but speaking from experiencing about 1 medical situation per month, most doctors (quite sensibly) first like to diagnose the problem - if it's a suspected fracture with an x-ray, if it's suspected food-poisoning with a toxicology report - and then once it's diagnosed, they like to cure it with medicine or refer to surgery. On a plane, we have little resources to make a thorough diagnosis, and even fewer drugs - the closest thing we have to a scalpel is a plastic spoon.
However, most nurses I've seen in action can tie a broad-arm sling quicker than I can say "do you take milk or sugar". They can spot the difference between acute appendicitis and flatus at 40 paces. They'll confirm that crushing head-pain you're experiencing on the Ibiza flight is not a stroke. And they'll have the best Heimlich manoeuvre this side of the Alps.
As to your specific examples, in a depressurisation, I'll either be quite busy or lying very still, but either way the last thing I need is a doctor telling me about his gas. If a woman is having a baby, a midwife would be of most-use, but I'd still prefer a general nurse than the best heart surgeon or anaethitist available. Same with a trauma, a nurse can spin that bandage faster than Charlotte can spin webs. Without an ECG, epinephine or a defibrillator, if you're experiencing a heart attack, you're better off with the person who best knows how to administer CPR.
I'm not saying doctors' help isn't useful, but they will always say "IS THAT ALL?"
when we show them the first aid kit. Our main priority is do no further harm (or if it's an emergency keep them alive) until we can get them to proper help on the ground.
Re your comment about death on board, a random doctor on board would be most unhelpful to you in that situation if he is telling me to stop CPR.
In tight-slot's scenareo, however, a phD doctor is always useful for that 'what am I doing' moment when I say thank you to someone handing me their rubbish.
To boardingpass who said that nurses are more help than doctors...why is that? To be honest, most of the time, I think both would be about as good as each other considering the limited resources up there. There are, however, situations where I reckon a Dr's knowledge and skills would out-trump a nurses: S depressuried cabin (lots of gas physics involved), woman in labour, or in a trauma situation for example. A simple heart attack could (theoretically) be handled in a just as effective way by a Dr, nurse or someone with a first aid qualification - ie the cabin crew. (Although if I were to have a heart attack I know exactly who and what I'd want aboard that a/c.
Here's another one... Only doctors are qualified to pronounce people dead on the ground (CPR MUST be continued until a Dr has pronounced the patient dead). Is the same doctor allowed to pronounce someone dead on an aircraft?
Here's another one... Only doctors are qualified to pronounce people dead on the ground (CPR MUST be continued until a Dr has pronounced the patient dead). Is the same doctor allowed to pronounce someone dead on an aircraft?
However, most nurses I've seen in action can tie a broad-arm sling quicker than I can say "do you take milk or sugar". They can spot the difference between acute appendicitis and flatus at 40 paces. They'll confirm that crushing head-pain you're experiencing on the Ibiza flight is not a stroke. And they'll have the best Heimlich manoeuvre this side of the Alps.
As to your specific examples, in a depressurisation, I'll either be quite busy or lying very still, but either way the last thing I need is a doctor telling me about his gas. If a woman is having a baby, a midwife would be of most-use, but I'd still prefer a general nurse than the best heart surgeon or anaethitist available. Same with a trauma, a nurse can spin that bandage faster than Charlotte can spin webs. Without an ECG, epinephine or a defibrillator, if you're experiencing a heart attack, you're better off with the person who best knows how to administer CPR.
I'm not saying doctors' help isn't useful, but they will always say "IS THAT ALL?"
when we show them the first aid kit. Our main priority is do no further harm (or if it's an emergency keep them alive) until we can get them to proper help on the ground.Re your comment about death on board, a random doctor on board would be most unhelpful to you in that situation if he is telling me to stop CPR.
In tight-slot's scenareo, however, a phD doctor is always useful for that 'what am I doing' moment when I say thank you to someone handing me their rubbish.
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Here's another one... Only doctors are qualified to pronounce people dead on the ground (CPR MUST be continued until a Dr has pronounced the patient dead).
HTC
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Spot on herman, EMT's can also carry out ROLE (recognition of life extinct) and take the decision NOT to start CPR/life support.
In an emergency situation on an aircraft my health care professional of choice would be a Paramedic, but I would say that
In an emergency situation on an aircraft my health care professional of choice would be a Paramedic, but I would say that
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From good old wikipedia:
"The word is originally an agentive noun of the verb docēre ('teach'). It has been used continuously as an honoured academic title for over a millennium in Europe, where it dates back to the rise of the university. This use spread to the Americas, former European colonies, and is now prevalent in most of the world. As a prefix — abbreviated "Dr"— its primary designation is a person who has obtained a doctorate (that is, a doctoral degree), which is the highest rank of academic degree..."
I am one of those "frauds", since I hold a PhD in Biochemistry. Given the enormous amount of effort it takes to get this academic qualification I bloody well deserve to have "Dr" before my name! You will find that most PhDs would not be stupid enough to try and give medical assistance if they are not qualified.
Regards,
Dr Lazy Gun
"The word is originally an agentive noun of the verb docēre ('teach'). It has been used continuously as an honoured academic title for over a millennium in Europe, where it dates back to the rise of the university. This use spread to the Americas, former European colonies, and is now prevalent in most of the world. As a prefix — abbreviated "Dr"— its primary designation is a person who has obtained a doctorate (that is, a doctoral degree), which is the highest rank of academic degree..."
I am one of those "frauds", since I hold a PhD in Biochemistry. Given the enormous amount of effort it takes to get this academic qualification I bloody well deserve to have "Dr" before my name! You will find that most PhDs would not be stupid enough to try and give medical assistance if they are not qualified.
Regards,
Dr Lazy Gun
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Frankly, agents NEVER put the title Dr on a ticket simply because we know the only thing that matters is the first and sir name being correct.
Lots of people request agents to put Dr or Sr or Fr or whatever on their ticket as they think it gets them noticed//upgrade at check-in. They are more likely to be downgraded by the poorly paid airline check in agent for being a pretentious idiot.
As an agent I frequently tell customers that it makes no differnece what the title on their ticket as there is NO TITLE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
I have only ever known nurses who have been upgraded/given free flights for assisting in emergency situations over Dr possibly because they have helped customers on many hour long haul flights to the destination saving the life of the passenger and mega bucks for the airline. Dr tend to pronounce the death of a passenger which is too much drama and paperwork.
Lots of people request agents to put Dr or Sr or Fr or whatever on their ticket as they think it gets them noticed//upgrade at check-in. They are more likely to be downgraded by the poorly paid airline check in agent for being a pretentious idiot.
As an agent I frequently tell customers that it makes no differnece what the title on their ticket as there is NO TITLE ON YOUR PASSPORT.
I have only ever known nurses who have been upgraded/given free flights for assisting in emergency situations over Dr possibly because they have helped customers on many hour long haul flights to the destination saving the life of the passenger and mega bucks for the airline. Dr tend to pronounce the death of a passenger which is too much drama and paperwork.
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Doctors are great, Nurses are too, all in their own setting;
But who looks after you pre-hospital when on the ground? - A Paramedic. So maybe the PA should go.... Are there any paramedics on board? Failing that a Nurse? Failing that a Doctor of medicine? Failing that can someone please come and help me do CPR!
Seriously though, you take a fish out of water and they don't cope very well.
Go to your GP in WA with chest pain and he will call for an ambulance if he suspects it is cardiac related. Unlikely to give the patient an aspirin, or Isordil, or cannulate, or place on oxygen; that it would appear is the job of the paramedic when they arrive!
Fortunately paramedics are used to working in confined environments, used to working with the minimum of resources and used to making the best of those around them. And yes they can pronounce, but not certify (Doctor required) ie, if you have been doing CPR for 20 mins and its another 20 to land, then they may elect to stop resuscitation (international rules of the air or local rules not wihstanding).
Oh and Yes I am.
But who looks after you pre-hospital when on the ground? - A Paramedic. So maybe the PA should go.... Are there any paramedics on board? Failing that a Nurse? Failing that a Doctor of medicine? Failing that can someone please come and help me do CPR!
Seriously though, you take a fish out of water and they don't cope very well.
Go to your GP in WA with chest pain and he will call for an ambulance if he suspects it is cardiac related. Unlikely to give the patient an aspirin, or Isordil, or cannulate, or place on oxygen; that it would appear is the job of the paramedic when they arrive!
Fortunately paramedics are used to working in confined environments, used to working with the minimum of resources and used to making the best of those around them. And yes they can pronounce, but not certify (Doctor required) ie, if you have been doing CPR for 20 mins and its another 20 to land, then they may elect to stop resuscitation (international rules of the air or local rules not wihstanding).
Oh and Yes I am.
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In terms of looking at a long haul flight I'd rather find myself a medical doctor rather than a nurse or paramedic. Of those three types of qualified medico's, the doctor is the only one that can make a true determination of the stability of a patient which will give the best information to the cockpit when working out the necessity for diversions etc. Keep in mind that doctors are highly trained and experienced professionals and are more than qualified to do everything that both a Paramedic and nurse can do in terms of treating a patient plus a whole lot more. (Before I get blasted for that, please keep in mind I do actually know what I'm talking about as I'm both a pilot and an up to date RN)
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AEROCATS2A:
I am currently working for the largest tour operator in Europe: Tui Travel and I book many flights/ packages with vertually all the airlines - our instructions are not to use "DR" for issuing airline tickets, these insrtuctions i believe are to specify male or female pax i.e Dr Tony....... could be male or female.
I am currently working for the largest tour operator in Europe: Tui Travel and I book many flights/ packages with vertually all the airlines - our instructions are not to use "DR" for issuing airline tickets, these insrtuctions i believe are to specify male or female pax i.e Dr Tony....... could be male or female.
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"I am one of those "frauds", since I hold a PhD in Biochemistry. Given the enormous amount of effort it takes to get this academic qualification I bloody well deserve to have "Dr" before my name! You will find that most PhDs would not be stupid enough to try and give medical assistance if they are not qualified. "
I would just like to add to Dr Lazy Gun's comments. I too obtained a PhD (in molecular biology) and worked extremely hard and made many personal sacrifices to obtain it. My profession recognises this with the title "Dr". I do not think of myself nor my peers as a "fraud". I think that I, and others like us, deserve some recognition for all of our hard work. As pointed out by Dr Lazy Gun, and other commentators here, the origins of the word denote one qualified to teach at univeristy level. It is an honorary title bestowed to medics and the like.
I doubt very much that any of my PhD peers would ever be so fooish as to offer medical assistance in an emergency situation.
"I would just like to add to Dr Lazy Gun's comments. I too obtained a PhD (in molecular biology) and worked extremely hard and made many personal sacrifices to obtain it. My profession recognises this with the title "Dr". I do not think of myself nor my peers as a "fraud". I think that I, and others like us, deserve some recognition for all of our hard work. As pointed out by Dr Lazy Gun, and other commentators here, the origins of the word denote one qualified to teach at univeristy level. It is an honorary title bestowed to medics and the like.
I doubt very much that any of my PhD peers would ever be so fooish as to offer medical assistance in an emergency situation.
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Winch-control, it's true, while a nurse gets bonus points, a paramedic on board would get an upgrade for sure! The best work I've seen on-board was when a paramedic had to intubate a passenger using only a name-badge, a pair of wings, two twizzle sticks, and a bendy straw... 
or wait, was that an episode of MacGyver? Oh well, you'd be welcome on one of my flights any day.
or wait, was that an episode of MacGyver? Oh well, you'd be welcome on one of my flights any day.
