Pre-flight safety announcement not understandable
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Pre-flight safety announcement not understandable
I frequently fly using Ryanair and on more than one occasion I have felt that the flight safety has been compromised, due to language inabilities of the staff.
One one occasion, a young lady was asked by her supervisor to do the pre-flight safety. The lady was very nervous, an attribute which in itself made me, as a passenger, nervous. It was clearly one of the first times that the lady was doing the pre-flight safety announcement on a plane full of passengers. But I do not think that this is a valid excuse. Passengers have to feel that they are being looked after by people who are confident and able to manage situations. Pilots flying for Ryanair, in contrast, give me the feeling that they are capable and relaxed.
This aside, the problem really started when the lady started to talk. I know the pre-flight safety text very well, and could only barely follow at which point she was. However, most of what she was saying was not at all clear. Worse still, several points were missed out altogether. I am a native English speaker, and had great difficulty understanding any of her speech. My partner could not follow anything, and I am sure that the same applied for the remaining passengers.
At the end, the lady asked her supervisor, in front of all other staff AND passengers, how she had done. To my surprise, the supervisor told her what she had done wrong, but did not update the passengers. I was left shocked about how unprofessional the whole episode had been.
I would be interested if any others have had similar experiences.
One one occasion, a young lady was asked by her supervisor to do the pre-flight safety. The lady was very nervous, an attribute which in itself made me, as a passenger, nervous. It was clearly one of the first times that the lady was doing the pre-flight safety announcement on a plane full of passengers. But I do not think that this is a valid excuse. Passengers have to feel that they are being looked after by people who are confident and able to manage situations. Pilots flying for Ryanair, in contrast, give me the feeling that they are capable and relaxed.
This aside, the problem really started when the lady started to talk. I know the pre-flight safety text very well, and could only barely follow at which point she was. However, most of what she was saying was not at all clear. Worse still, several points were missed out altogether. I am a native English speaker, and had great difficulty understanding any of her speech. My partner could not follow anything, and I am sure that the same applied for the remaining passengers.
At the end, the lady asked her supervisor, in front of all other staff AND passengers, how she had done. To my surprise, the supervisor told her what she had done wrong, but did not update the passengers. I was left shocked about how unprofessional the whole episode had been.
I would be interested if any others have had similar experiences.
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Pre flight safety announcements
I totally agree with you -- worse culprits seem to be the cheap UK Charter flights most of the CC seem to be illiterate I would hate to be in the hands of some young ex hairdresser in an emergency but I suppose you get what you pay more --pay peanuts and get monkeys.
On the same issue you want to try Onur Air ( no you don`t!!). This Turkish charter co makes dozens of flights from uk each week with a crew who can barely speak English and whose safety briefing is totally un intelligable!! I wonder if this is even legal but at least they have the excuse that they are Turkish.
On the same issue you want to try Onur Air ( no you don`t!!). This Turkish charter co makes dozens of flights from uk each week with a crew who can barely speak English and whose safety briefing is totally un intelligable!! I wonder if this is even legal but at least they have the excuse that they are Turkish.
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I used to cringe in QR when the SCCM would get one of the new asian crew to do the english pa's. They would naturally be nervous about it and a lot of the accents were hard enough to understand. Especially used to annoy me as they had me, a fluent english speaker available.
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jolini
I work for the country's largest charter carrier - and as a Cabin Crew Trainer, as well as Cabin Crew, I can assure you that neither my fellow crew nor myself are illiterate!
Nor are we cheap - merely inexpensive!!
I work for the country's largest charter carrier - and as a Cabin Crew Trainer, as well as Cabin Crew, I can assure you that neither my fellow crew nor myself are illiterate!
Nor are we cheap - merely inexpensive!!
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Jolini:
I think alot of people put Charter and LCC in the same basket. They are infact very different! Airlines like First Choice and Thomson are of a very high calibre when it comes to their crew. They are the same people kinds of people who work at BA and Virgin. Just different uniforms. Don't make a generalised criticism about something you have no idea about.
Alot of people look at the fact that you have to pay for your G&T to mean that the airline is crap, and only the bottom of the barrell would work there.
I would say that over 90% of crew at the Charter Airlines come from the UK. The rest would have very good if not perfect english. So if the crew are from the UK, and are still infact illiterate, perhaps you should blame the education system and the government.
paddygranger:
I am not going to comment on Ryan Air's safety standards. It is debatable as to whether or not the 99p you paid for your ticket includes a seatbelt, safety card or oxygen mask, let alone a safety briefing! What do you expect if you board a Ryan Air flight? Silver service, free flowing champaigne served to you by Blonde British (perhaps Irish) Girls in a red uniform wearing Bright red lipstick!
The purser on that day was not good, but I have seen pleanty of safety violations from British crew at the Big British carriers! People are human beings - there's the genius, average joe, and the village idiot!
If you fly Hungarian Airlines, or Czech Airlines, do you expect the crew to have accents? What about Lufthansa and Air France? What about Alitalia or Iberia! Not a word! Do we complain? No because their first languages are not english, and we expect people who cannot speak english perfectly.
And I ask everyone who winges about people who can't speak perfect english to ask themselves one question.
How many languages do I speak well enough to pass a 4-6 week training course in cabin safety and service?!
By this I mean, could you pass the course if it was in a foreign country. Some of these crew can speak 4 or more languages!
I think alot of people put Charter and LCC in the same basket. They are infact very different! Airlines like First Choice and Thomson are of a very high calibre when it comes to their crew. They are the same people kinds of people who work at BA and Virgin. Just different uniforms. Don't make a generalised criticism about something you have no idea about.
Alot of people look at the fact that you have to pay for your G&T to mean that the airline is crap, and only the bottom of the barrell would work there.
I would say that over 90% of crew at the Charter Airlines come from the UK. The rest would have very good if not perfect english. So if the crew are from the UK, and are still infact illiterate, perhaps you should blame the education system and the government.
paddygranger:
I am not going to comment on Ryan Air's safety standards. It is debatable as to whether or not the 99p you paid for your ticket includes a seatbelt, safety card or oxygen mask, let alone a safety briefing! What do you expect if you board a Ryan Air flight? Silver service, free flowing champaigne served to you by Blonde British (perhaps Irish) Girls in a red uniform wearing Bright red lipstick!
The purser on that day was not good, but I have seen pleanty of safety violations from British crew at the Big British carriers! People are human beings - there's the genius, average joe, and the village idiot!
If you fly Hungarian Airlines, or Czech Airlines, do you expect the crew to have accents? What about Lufthansa and Air France? What about Alitalia or Iberia! Not a word! Do we complain? No because their first languages are not english, and we expect people who cannot speak english perfectly.
And I ask everyone who winges about people who can't speak perfect english to ask themselves one question.
How many languages do I speak well enough to pass a 4-6 week training course in cabin safety and service?!
By this I mean, could you pass the course if it was in a foreign country. Some of these crew can speak 4 or more languages!
Last edited by I Just Want To Fly; 25th Aug 2008 at 11:19.
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How many languages do I speak well enough to pass a 4-6 week training course in cabin safety and service?!
For the case in point, just one, as from their Cabin Crew jobspec:
Fluent in English (both written and spoken)
For the case in point, just one, as from their Cabin Crew jobspec:
Fluent in English (both written and spoken)
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I just want to Fly
Suggest you read before you rant off. I never mentioned the comparison between charters and LCC although as you mention it I do find that LCC offer a far more professional standard of service than charters and I do not mind paying for my G&T`s in the slightest.
I was making a comment based on MY experiences on using charters ,LCC and others, over dozens of annual flights and as such feel quite qualified to offer my opinion --- it`s not something "I know nothing about".
The cabin crew are trained by their airlines not schools and although I am sure their standards of safety training are adequate ,their attitude to their paying customers leaves loads to be desired IMHO.
I was making a comment based on MY experiences on using charters ,LCC and others, over dozens of annual flights and as such feel quite qualified to offer my opinion --- it`s not something "I know nothing about".
The cabin crew are trained by their airlines not schools and although I am sure their standards of safety training are adequate ,their attitude to their paying customers leaves loads to be desired IMHO.
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jolini - I don't know whether other users had nerves touched - you certainly touched mine.
If you wish to make a genuine point, or raise a genuine question, it helps if you avoid using language that is gratuitously offensive to those reading it.
Accusations of illiteracy tend to be something of a double-edged sword. most especially when you own post is peppered with both spelling and grammatical errors that would make a teenager blush. The rest of your posts are perception based abuse, lacking in originality and insight.
That's fine, but in your original post you made a direct assertion that safety was to a lower standard on UK charter flights - otherwise why make the "hairdresser" comment. You are posting on a safety related thread: it is reasonable to assume that your comments relate to safety.
So far, jolini, you've made 4 posts on PPRuNe, one of which was argumentative and provocative and has been deleted. The others are little more than subjective, ill-informed rubbish, careless of the effect on others. Clean up your act, or leave.
If you wish to make a genuine point, or raise a genuine question, it helps if you avoid using language that is gratuitously offensive to those reading it.
...most of the CC seem to be illiterate...
young ex hairdresser in an emergency
pay peanuts and get monkeys
I am sure their standards of safety training are adequate ,their attitude to their paying customers leaves loads to be desired IMHO.
So far, jolini, you've made 4 posts on PPRuNe, one of which was argumentative and provocative and has been deleted. The others are little more than subjective, ill-informed rubbish, careless of the effect on others. Clean up your act, or leave.
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Sometimes Ryanair use a pre-recorded message. This is a clear, safe and cheap solution. Why not use this?
I do not think that the price of the ticket should in any way determine the level of safety that you receive. There is surely a standard level of security in the aviation industry which should be strictly adhered to.
I do not think that the price of the ticket should in any way determine the level of safety that you receive. There is surely a standard level of security in the aviation industry which should be strictly adhered to.
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paddygranger
I'm sure that if you politely advised the crew that you couldn't understand any part of the briefing they would explain anything you missed.
Recorded messages/video are OK, provided the PA speaker (or screen) near you is working. Crew standing in the aisle is a good heads up to pay attention - something you don't always get from some automated announcements.
Much prefer the live demo and, as a bonus, the cabin crew get to see who's paying attention and who's going to need "special attention" if something goes wrong.
I'm sure that if you politely advised the crew that you couldn't understand any part of the briefing they would explain anything you missed.
Recorded messages/video are OK, provided the PA speaker (or screen) near you is working. Crew standing in the aisle is a good heads up to pay attention - something you don't always get from some automated announcements.
Much prefer the live demo and, as a bonus, the cabin crew get to see who's paying attention and who's going to need "special attention" if something goes wrong.
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tightslot
My apologies if I seem to have upset you.
My posts were MY feelings and observations made as a result of MY flying experiences and of course people will have different opinions.
If the safety announcement cannot be understood clearly by all the passengers, then is it not a safety issue?
Could it not possibly affect passengers feelings as to the way they might be looked after in a real emergency if the first safety message they get on board often cannot be heard and understood properly , it certainly makes me uncomfortable and I am a fairly frequent flyer.
Other safety issues I have experienced are these:
Seat backs not in upright positions on take off and landing.
Passengers allowed to walk around when the seat belt light is on.
Passengers well over the top on alcohol, still being allowed to board and then served more during the flight. (This seems to be an issue well documented in the press of late! )
Again sorry to have ruffled a few feathers.
Jolini
My posts were MY feelings and observations made as a result of MY flying experiences and of course people will have different opinions.
If the safety announcement cannot be understood clearly by all the passengers, then is it not a safety issue?
Could it not possibly affect passengers feelings as to the way they might be looked after in a real emergency if the first safety message they get on board often cannot be heard and understood properly , it certainly makes me uncomfortable and I am a fairly frequent flyer.
Other safety issues I have experienced are these:
Seat backs not in upright positions on take off and landing.
Passengers allowed to walk around when the seat belt light is on.
Passengers well over the top on alcohol, still being allowed to board and then served more during the flight. (This seems to be an issue well documented in the press of late! )
Again sorry to have ruffled a few feathers.
Jolini
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Sorry if I am missing something here but what is the connection between not being able to understand a safety briefing and assuming all Cabin Crew are illiterate?
Cabin Crew in the UK must pass written exams that have to be approved by the CAA in order to obtain their licences. Very difficult for anyone who's unable to read or write!
Cabin Crew in the UK must pass written exams that have to be approved by the CAA in order to obtain their licences. Very difficult for anyone who's unable to read or write!
Once again Ryanair seems to get singled out for criticism. If I can give my tuppence-worth, last year on a DUB-STN flight, some pax in the front 5 or so rows were not paying attention to the briefing, and may have been talking among themselves. They were firmly asked to pay attention and the briefing was repeated for the benefit of all, including the 3 or 4 ill-mannered louts.
Well done. Smack of firm Government. Reminded me of Maggie!
Well done. Smack of firm Government. Reminded me of Maggie!
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Irrespective of accents, I would suggest that most c/c will be nervous the first time they have to make the safety briefing announcement.
No doubt they will have done it in the classroom in front of people they know, but for many people doing a PA in front of strangers is a nerve wracking experience.
But they have to do it the first time.
I don't know the background of some of the posters, or if they have ever had to stand in front of 150+ strangers and make an announcement - if not they should try it!
Most of the c/c here will possibly even admit to being nervous the first time they made the announcement though.
The biggest problem is that often, the first time they do it, the speed of delivery is too high, this means that often parts of a pre-prepared speech are missed and that words become garbled (a different accent doesn't help either). Also using a microphone often doesn't help as often it will pick up breath sounds of the "pops" when pronouncing certain letters e.g. P. Even where the microphone is held in relation to the mouth can make a big difference
So in other words cut folks some slack, if it was not understandable ask (as already stated above) for clarification.
No doubt they will have done it in the classroom in front of people they know, but for many people doing a PA in front of strangers is a nerve wracking experience.
But they have to do it the first time.
I don't know the background of some of the posters, or if they have ever had to stand in front of 150+ strangers and make an announcement - if not they should try it!
Most of the c/c here will possibly even admit to being nervous the first time they made the announcement though.
The biggest problem is that often, the first time they do it, the speed of delivery is too high, this means that often parts of a pre-prepared speech are missed and that words become garbled (a different accent doesn't help either). Also using a microphone often doesn't help as often it will pick up breath sounds of the "pops" when pronouncing certain letters e.g. P. Even where the microphone is held in relation to the mouth can make a big difference
So in other words cut folks some slack, if it was not understandable ask (as already stated above) for clarification.
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I think it's amazing that Ryanair / Easyjet crew do there PA's Infront of Passenger's and most with big smiles and calm in there voice..
I am lucky to be able to hide behind a bulkhead or Galley, and it's not right just to single out Ryanair or other LCC the whole time. Give there Crew a break, It was the person's first PA and I'm sure they will get better in time.
I really feel for that crew member and I have been there before many times,
but all you can do is try and try again..
I am lucky to be able to hide behind a bulkhead or Galley, and it's not right just to single out Ryanair or other LCC the whole time. Give there Crew a break, It was the person's first PA and I'm sure they will get better in time.
I really feel for that crew member and I have been there before many times,
but all you can do is try and try again..
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jolini
While I have to admit I do agree with your first post, in that when I have flown Ryanair, I have had trouble understanding the PAs... your post later on is unfair.
Have you tried doing our job? If you did, you would realise that a lot of people seem to think we have no authority, they can do what they like and often argue they know better about safety regulations. We can only try and ask them to follow the regulations... if they choose not to do so, unfortunately there is not a lot we can do! If someone chooses to stand up while landing, once we have repeated a request over the PA for them to sit down, there is nothing we can do without endangering ourselves. Even when the PA is made in perfect english, I would bet less than half of the passengers are paying any attention to the safety briefings. There is no consquence for actions like these (until someone gets hurt through their own ignorance).
Excuse the small rant, but just take a moment to think about how difficult our job is made through passengers being ignorant and disrespectful to crew, and maybe think about how you act towards the crew on your next flight.
Have you tried doing our job? If you did, you would realise that a lot of people seem to think we have no authority, they can do what they like and often argue they know better about safety regulations. We can only try and ask them to follow the regulations... if they choose not to do so, unfortunately there is not a lot we can do! If someone chooses to stand up while landing, once we have repeated a request over the PA for them to sit down, there is nothing we can do without endangering ourselves. Even when the PA is made in perfect english, I would bet less than half of the passengers are paying any attention to the safety briefings. There is no consquence for actions like these (until someone gets hurt through their own ignorance).
Excuse the small rant, but just take a moment to think about how difficult our job is made through passengers being ignorant and disrespectful to crew, and maybe think about how you act towards the crew on your next flight.
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Paddygranger, are you seriously telling us that you continue to frequently use an airline where you have on more than one occasion felt that safety was compromised?
You have a death-wish man?
PS: I have had a similar experience with a certain airline. After flying them 3 times I decided it wasnīt a coincidence. So I stopped flying them.
Itīs not rocket science, is it?
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I have to put my 2cents in here and agree with the notion that not all CC ARE infact as talented in English as they should be. Having worked for a Major M-E airline for some years I must say that I myself as Crew have often struggled to understand what is being said by my colleagues.
Whilst the matter of accents is a contentious one, would it not be best for a crew member with English as his or her mother tongue and clear diction to make announcements rather than one who, whilst having complete understanding, can only mutter away the same speil?
Nationality can't always be called upon as the solution, as I know many fellow Aussies, Brits, Kiwis, Saffas and Americans that have too heavy an accent to appropriately make a PA, whilst others with English as a second, third or fourth language have wonderful pronunciation.
I think the overall point of the thread was perhaps to highlight the importance of a safty PA being made by the most willing, confident, COMPETENT and appropriate person rather than who ever's free.
As for literacy, I would challenge anyone who says that the system for assesing it is perfect- again I have flown with crew members that would struggle to understand the instructions on how to use a tea-bag.
Whilst the matter of accents is a contentious one, would it not be best for a crew member with English as his or her mother tongue and clear diction to make announcements rather than one who, whilst having complete understanding, can only mutter away the same speil?
Nationality can't always be called upon as the solution, as I know many fellow Aussies, Brits, Kiwis, Saffas and Americans that have too heavy an accent to appropriately make a PA, whilst others with English as a second, third or fourth language have wonderful pronunciation.
I think the overall point of the thread was perhaps to highlight the importance of a safty PA being made by the most willing, confident, COMPETENT and appropriate person rather than who ever's free.
As for literacy, I would challenge anyone who says that the system for assesing it is perfect- again I have flown with crew members that would struggle to understand the instructions on how to use a tea-bag.
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I regularly use FR to commute to visit family and friends. On no other airline have I heard such low standards of English being used with such frequency for safety briefing/announcements. On several occasions it has been so rushed and accented as to be entirely or almost entirely uninteligable.
If this doesn't happen in my neck of the woods then there really is no excuse for FR (a native speaking EN airline).
RIX
If this doesn't happen in my neck of the woods then there really is no excuse for FR (a native speaking EN airline).
RIX
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OK, pull out the "I'm English you're not" card, will you...?
As for the rather nervous lady on the PA... I'll have you know that she could've been line checked... Which means she was examined for either becoming a CSS or just a regular annual line check (nevertheless examined hence why nervous)
To say the CC don't give a flying monkey because you're paying beer money to get safely from A to B... That is way out of order!
You could give me all the attitude in the world regarding prices, boarding, other FR flights, other airports ground staff (all of the above are NOT down to the CC on board!), talk throughout the safety demo and then complain about the landing but remember this: after all your moaning, should anything happen, i would still try to safe your life. Because that is what i do and that is why i am going through a 8-10 hour day, 5 weeks, training. Saving your a$$ should an emergency arise is why I'm there, in the a/c.
I suggest you get off your high horse and if in doubt, you can always join the company and go through the intensive training. See how you do and then talk...
As for the "I'm English you're not" card... I'll have you know that apart from English i also speak and write fluently in: Italian, Spanish, German, French and i have a degree in Latin. I'm sorry, but i don't speak CHAV...!
PS1:
I have to say TightSlot has it spot on!
PS2:
I do apologize to the genuine nice posters for the rant; as for the other ones (sorry, but i learned this from A NATIVE ENGLISH): you can sod off to where the sun don't shine!
Rgds,
ATS
As for the rather nervous lady on the PA... I'll have you know that she could've been line checked... Which means she was examined for either becoming a CSS or just a regular annual line check (nevertheless examined hence why nervous)
To say the CC don't give a flying monkey because you're paying beer money to get safely from A to B... That is way out of order!
You could give me all the attitude in the world regarding prices, boarding, other FR flights, other airports ground staff (all of the above are NOT down to the CC on board!), talk throughout the safety demo and then complain about the landing but remember this: after all your moaning, should anything happen, i would still try to safe your life. Because that is what i do and that is why i am going through a 8-10 hour day, 5 weeks, training. Saving your a$$ should an emergency arise is why I'm there, in the a/c.
I suggest you get off your high horse and if in doubt, you can always join the company and go through the intensive training. See how you do and then talk...
As for the "I'm English you're not" card... I'll have you know that apart from English i also speak and write fluently in: Italian, Spanish, German, French and i have a degree in Latin. I'm sorry, but i don't speak CHAV...!
PS1:
I have to say TightSlot has it spot on!
PS2:
I do apologize to the genuine nice posters for the rant; as for the other ones (sorry, but i learned this from A NATIVE ENGLISH): you can sod off to where the sun don't shine!
Rgds,
ATS