The captain has switched on the Fasten Seat Belt sign - feel free to ignore it
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preduk
Not wishing to cast doubt on your story, but are you sure it was on a Monarch flight?
From my own vague recollection, First class and Monarch are not words I would use in the same sentence! They do, I believe, have a 'premium' cabin which is not too different to most schedule Airlines economy. As for the rest of the aircraft cabin, children or vertically challenged only would fit in the 29" seat pitch.
Truly shocking but the fit hosties eased the pain.Though not literally..................... unfortunately! sad:
Harry
Not wishing to cast doubt on your story, but are you sure it was on a Monarch flight?
From my own vague recollection, First class and Monarch are not words I would use in the same sentence! They do, I believe, have a 'premium' cabin which is not too different to most schedule Airlines economy. As for the rest of the aircraft cabin, children or vertically challenged only would fit in the 29" seat pitch.
Truly shocking but the fit hosties eased the pain.Though not literally..................... unfortunately! sad:
Harry
100% guarantee it was Monarch. It may well have been premium area, all I remember was passengers were given their own TV set and a different meal compared to the rest of the flight. It was a while ago, but it was defiantly Monarch.
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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One useful thing to remember;
Under JAR/EUops/Air Navigation Order it is a criminal offence to disobey the "reasonable instructions of the aircraft commander" The seatbelt signs constitute reasonable instructions.
Anybody injured by the brakes being swiftly applied may also find themselves uninsured due to their actions in ignoring an instruction for their own safety.
When I was flying for the airlines I once had to stamp on the brakes to give way to a rapidly moving fire engine who had his lights going and a very determined appearance. A woman in row 15 had stood up to get her briefcase out of the overhead. I braked, she and case flew, case hit a lady travelling with two small children on the back of her head and broke her neck.
Lady who was hit was in hospital for a very long time and never recovered full movement. Lady who caused the problem spent quite a long time with the police force of a South-East Asian state explaining her actions.
I spent a long time with the Chief Pilot explaining how the situation had been allowed to happen. (in some Asian airlines the P1 is responsible for everything, including the moral wellfair of the girls while on night stops!)
VH
Under JAR/EUops/Air Navigation Order it is a criminal offence to disobey the "reasonable instructions of the aircraft commander" The seatbelt signs constitute reasonable instructions.
Anybody injured by the brakes being swiftly applied may also find themselves uninsured due to their actions in ignoring an instruction for their own safety.
When I was flying for the airlines I once had to stamp on the brakes to give way to a rapidly moving fire engine who had his lights going and a very determined appearance. A woman in row 15 had stood up to get her briefcase out of the overhead. I braked, she and case flew, case hit a lady travelling with two small children on the back of her head and broke her neck.
Lady who was hit was in hospital for a very long time and never recovered full movement. Lady who caused the problem spent quite a long time with the police force of a South-East Asian state explaining her actions.
I spent a long time with the Chief Pilot explaining how the situation had been allowed to happen. (in some Asian airlines the P1 is responsible for everything, including the moral wellfair of the girls while on night stops!)
VH
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What I fail to comprehend is why pax release their belts immediately after landing. Will they get off the plane any faster? Will they receive their luggage any quicker? Will they breeze through immigration? The answer to all of these is no. Personally, I have my seatbelt fastened loosely at all times -it is neither inconvenient or uncomfortable - no problem. I am convinced that some people are naturally defiant of any rules and regulations, irrespective of the consequences of their actions.
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I suspect this problem first occured the day they fitted the first seat belt to a passenger aircraft.....
On our little turboprop, we have to sit with the enginesw running for 30 seconds before switching them and the seat belt off, guess how many passengers are still wearing their belts and sat down when we do?
It was easier on the 146 I used to fly, as we has a screen that looked back. A little glance over my shoulder told me if anyone was standing and a light tap of the brakes ALWAYs did the trick.
Oh, and if any skippers honestly want to stamp on the brakes in such situations, in such a manner where injury might occur, then please take a look at yourself and surrender your licence AQSAP. A light tap is all you should ever need. Then stop and wait until they sit down and your C1 tells you they have. Safer for all, especially the young mother in the row in front of the accused.
On our little turboprop, we have to sit with the enginesw running for 30 seconds before switching them and the seat belt off, guess how many passengers are still wearing their belts and sat down when we do?
It was easier on the 146 I used to fly, as we has a screen that looked back. A little glance over my shoulder told me if anyone was standing and a light tap of the brakes ALWAYs did the trick.
Oh, and if any skippers honestly want to stamp on the brakes in such situations, in such a manner where injury might occur, then please take a look at yourself and surrender your licence AQSAP. A light tap is all you should ever need. Then stop and wait until they sit down and your C1 tells you they have. Safer for all, especially the young mother in the row in front of the accused.
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Firstly, it's actually a command by the lawful commander (the captain) of the aircraft. It is an air navigation order that on board an aircraft you are bound to lawful commands of the captain (often made on behalf of the cabin crew, or as a sign eg no smoking/seatbelt). Not adhering to the seatbelt sign is therefore actually breaking the law
However on one flight years ago now here in Brisbane, the pax were boarded quickly on a flight that was running late, the flight attendant came round telling everyone to fasten their seat belts as the Captain had the light on. I very politely said I would NOT, however if she wanted me to I would go and stand in the aerobridge until fuelling was completed as it was illegal to make us fasten our belts, especially on a full flight while fuelling was still going on, plus they had already removed the rear stairs.
She said we will see about that and stormed off to tell the Captain, after a minute or two someone on the flightdeck made a PA that all pax should unfasten their seat belts and the light went out.
There are odd times when to OBEY the light is breaking the law.
And NO that flight attendant never came near me for the rest of that flight, let alone apologised, although the pax thanked me for (politely) standing up for our rights.
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standing up for our rights.
This Company had already broken just about every regulation on the books for refuelling with a full load of pax on board, they had no fire engine at the aircraft, they had already removed the rear mobile stairs leaving only the aerobridge, and now they were insisting on us fastening our seat belts.
As I said before, I very politely offered to go and wait in the aerobridge until refuelling was finished but refused to fasten my seat belt which would have been breaking the regulations and putting my Life at risk.
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Re: the seatbelt sign - I've posted before about this on the site, so I won't go on about it - but I've travelled very regularly with all Australian registered airlines, and one thing that gets me frustrated every time is Virgin Blue cabin crew's non-adherence to CAO 20.16.3 in turbulent conditions. On only 2 occasions have I seen crew strapped in during turbulence, and on both occasions this was due to a near-inability to actually stand up in the cabin without being thrown against a bulkhead. The tech crews are quite vigilant in strapping the pax down in turbulence - but not so for the cabin crew. On one occasion I had a boiling cup of water carried past my face during reasonably significant turbulence.
QF and JQ policy is simple and logical - if the pax are strapped down due turbulence, then the crew are too (as required by law).
Before I get attacked - I'm not questioning the professionalism of DJ crew, they've been excellent over the past few years on nearly every sector I've done. It's just this particular bit of culture, which they've got away with due to nobody getting injured (yet).
QF and JQ policy is simple and logical - if the pax are strapped down due turbulence, then the crew are too (as required by law).
Before I get attacked - I'm not questioning the professionalism of DJ crew, they've been excellent over the past few years on nearly every sector I've done. It's just this particular bit of culture, which they've got away with due to nobody getting injured (yet).
Oops!
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My solution to the problem works 99.9999% of the time.
I ask the CSD to call us on the intercom to tell let us know the very first time a pax sneaks their seat belt off then I simply make the following PA:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, sorry to bother you it's the captain here again. A little bit embarrassing this one I'm afraid. We've just had a warning here on the computer screen on the flight deck that tells us a passenger has undone their seatbelt. Now, on this occasion I'm not going to embarrass the passenger in question by mentioning the seat number on the screen here but please remember that it is essential for your own safety to keep your seat belts securely fastened at all times and I would be grateful if the passenger in question did up their seatbelt immediately. Many thanks".
For the rest of the flight everyone's as good as gold!
I ask the CSD to call us on the intercom to tell let us know the very first time a pax sneaks their seat belt off then I simply make the following PA:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, sorry to bother you it's the captain here again. A little bit embarrassing this one I'm afraid. We've just had a warning here on the computer screen on the flight deck that tells us a passenger has undone their seatbelt. Now, on this occasion I'm not going to embarrass the passenger in question by mentioning the seat number on the screen here but please remember that it is essential for your own safety to keep your seat belts securely fastened at all times and I would be grateful if the passenger in question did up their seatbelt immediately. Many thanks".
For the rest of the flight everyone's as good as gold!
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but if the crew are wandering around....
Ok, so I'm just SLF - but I think part of the problem with seatbelt lights is that they seem to be turned on ridiculously often these days (post 911?). Flying last week, we had the seatbelt sign on for about half of a fairly calm transatlantic flight, while crew served meals and refreshments - surely if it is likely to be so turbulant that i am not allowed to go to the toilet, it is going to be too rough for me to be safely served a cup of tea?! Seeing crew wandering around generally signals to passengers (rightly or wrongly) that the risks can't be that great, because the professionals wouldn't be walking around if the risks were that high.... BTW during the flight we hit maybe one pocket of seatbelt worthy turbulance.
Then again, the some of the worst turbulance i have hit was trans-Tasman clear air turbulance just out of Sydney- then I was glad that I usually have my belt on even when the sign is off as it caught everyone completly unawares.
Then again, the some of the worst turbulance i have hit was trans-Tasman clear air turbulance just out of Sydney- then I was glad that I usually have my belt on even when the sign is off as it caught everyone completly unawares.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Seeing crew wandering around generally signals to passengers (rightly or wrongly)
I was on Delta at Cincinatti circa 96 and we had to come to a rapid halt, you would not (or maybe you would) believe how much faster we were going than most people thought, and just how quick you stop...Or rather the plane stops, but you don't.
My belt was on, its always on when the engines running and oh how I chuckle at the clicking of belts as we taxi in.
My belt was on, its always on when the engines running and oh how I chuckle at the clicking of belts as we taxi in.
Virgiia - I would agree with you were it not for the case of the lady having her neck broken by *someone else* who was disobeying the rules, while they themselves were still strapped in. 
If it was only the rule-breaker at risk then fair enough, but noone else should have to suffer because one idiot thinks they're above the rules.
If it was only the rule-breaker at risk then fair enough, but noone else should have to suffer because one idiot thinks they're above the rules.
All fine, but couldn't you cabin crew stop saying "... untill the aircraft has come to a complete stop" ? Either it's stopped or not, isn't it ? Why don't you instead simpy tell people to remain seated and strapped in till the fasten seatbelts sign is turned off ?
BTW, I guess "final approach" only applies if it's the final trip of that particular aircraft :-)
BTW, I guess "final approach" only applies if it's the final trip of that particular aircraft :-)
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I ask the CSD to call us on the intercom to tell let us know the very first time a pax sneaks their seat belt off then I simply make the following PA:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, sorry to bother you it's the captain here again. A little bit embarrassing this one I'm afraid. We've just had a warning here on the computer screen on the flight deck that tells us a passenger has undone their seatbelt. Now, on this occasion I'm not going to embarrass the passenger in question by mentioning the seat number on the screen here but please remember that it is essential for your own safety to keep your seat belts securely fastened at all times and I would be grateful if the passenger in question did up their seatbelt immediately. Many thanks".
"Ladies and Gentlemen, sorry to bother you it's the captain here again. A little bit embarrassing this one I'm afraid. We've just had a warning here on the computer screen on the flight deck that tells us a passenger has undone their seatbelt. Now, on this occasion I'm not going to embarrass the passenger in question by mentioning the seat number on the screen here but please remember that it is essential for your own safety to keep your seat belts securely fastened at all times and I would be grateful if the passenger in question did up their seatbelt immediately. Many thanks".
I hate that sort of patronising crap from crew. I've heard the same nonsense about the skipper knowing if a mobile has been left on in the overheads.
Last edited by dubh12000; 10th Sep 2008 at 06:16.
