Perk of the job or theft?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Newton Stewart
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To use the well known West of Scotland expression, neither Mr or Mrs Sheridan 'Came up the Clyde in a banana boat', ie neither are stupid.
I am sure they would not have a cocktail cabinet full of 'dodgy' miniatures in their home.
The police enquiry into the perjury allegations has to date cost over 1 million pounds and 40,000 hours of police time (information from BBC Newsnight Scotland programme). The expression 'WASTE OF MONEY' comes to mind..........
I am sure they would not have a cocktail cabinet full of 'dodgy' miniatures in their home.
The police enquiry into the perjury allegations has to date cost over 1 million pounds and 40,000 hours of police time (information from BBC Newsnight Scotland programme). The expression 'WASTE OF MONEY' comes to mind..........
Last edited by loloflyer; 26th Feb 2008 at 14:50.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Luton
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it also depends on the airline! At mine we were allowed to take off the water bottles supplied as long as it had been opened and we had not drunk it all! SO taking a new bottle was a no no. When it comes to Crew food we can take it of to eat int he crew room but are not allowed to take it home or off to a hotel!
Minitures. . . . . if we want one we but it. But they are cheaper at my local supermarket!!
Minitures. . . . . if we want one we but it. But they are cheaper at my local supermarket!!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I'll go and ask the Captain
Posts: 643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to go back to the reason for the thread.
It seems to me that the police would be trying to gather evidence to suggest a person of 'questionable character'. There is no way a police raid looking for evidence of perjury would consider a cupboard full of miniatures as anything remotely worth bothering with. Unless they are trying to build their case against the accused by suggesting she is also a petty thief therefore a liar.
All of those in the job that have possibly 'accidentally' found the odd contents of a bar in your bag when you got home are also therefor liars, cheats and if in the future you are ever accused of any illegal activity, your past galley habits will automatically prove your guilt.
6
It seems to me that the police would be trying to gather evidence to suggest a person of 'questionable character'. There is no way a police raid looking for evidence of perjury would consider a cupboard full of miniatures as anything remotely worth bothering with. Unless they are trying to build their case against the accused by suggesting she is also a petty thief therefore a liar.
All of those in the job that have possibly 'accidentally' found the odd contents of a bar in your bag when you got home are also therefor liars, cheats and if in the future you are ever accused of any illegal activity, your past galley habits will automatically prove your guilt.
6
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Age: 65
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perjury and all that
The police were investigating Mrs Sheridan in relation to an allegation of perjury. The search of the home was a part of that investigation. The analogy with the food in a supermarket is ridiculous. The minatures are clearly from BA, and I would bet you any money that BA require staff to have receipts to prove that the items were purchased. Anyway, to repeat.. police search the home legimately in relation to a criminal investigation into a serious offence. In the course of this search, evidence is obtained of a possible further offence, (admittedly relatively minor, but theft nonetheless) and this is presented to BA to investigate. BA suspend pending investigation. Where is the vendetta or conspiracy in that?
Either we are suggesting that PLOD should just ignore possible other offences when investigating a politicians wife, or maybe it is because she is a middle class flight attendant. When middle class people are caught stealing pens, paper, minatures, millions of pounds it is suddenly "white collar" crime and as such they shouldnt be charged. I seem to remember a "free the Natwest 3, save them from the nasty americans who are pursuing innocent men for extradition".... turns out these "innocent men" have just pleaded guilty, admitted to ripping of Nat West for millions and are about to go the jail. Tommy Sheridan and his missus will have their day in court, and when they do, all offences committed should be pursued, just as they are for the poor bloody council estate inhabitants that they profess to represent.
You can be sure that if it was a chav and the police searched the house and found evidence of stolen goods they would be charged. Of course it is not the same.. you flying people are above the law.
Either we are suggesting that PLOD should just ignore possible other offences when investigating a politicians wife, or maybe it is because she is a middle class flight attendant. When middle class people are caught stealing pens, paper, minatures, millions of pounds it is suddenly "white collar" crime and as such they shouldnt be charged. I seem to remember a "free the Natwest 3, save them from the nasty americans who are pursuing innocent men for extradition".... turns out these "innocent men" have just pleaded guilty, admitted to ripping of Nat West for millions and are about to go the jail. Tommy Sheridan and his missus will have their day in court, and when they do, all offences committed should be pursued, just as they are for the poor bloody council estate inhabitants that they profess to represent.
You can be sure that if it was a chav and the police searched the house and found evidence of stolen goods they would be charged. Of course it is not the same.. you flying people are above the law.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I'll go and ask the Captain
Posts: 643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jimworcs
I'll remember that the next time someone gives me the nod for an extra miniature to take home after their hard days work and it's a late flight.
6
6
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lancs.UK
Age: 77
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
good "business" practise
Treating receipts in such a cavalier fashion Willcause problems!
There's no real difference between documenting what you do on the Flightdeck, Galley, Check in or "home PLC" your family affairs are your "private business"...it's really NOT difficult to stuff the receipts in your purse/wallet..then, when unloading the "shopping", tip the receipts into a bag/box/jar.
EVERY small businessperson HAS to do it!....It's no more difficult than saving all your 20p's /50p's/£coins/whatever,as some folk do on a regular basis.
If the lady,subject to enquiries,has followed this elementary "good housekeeping" routine.....she can simply drag her bag out of the attic and tell "plod" to find the documentation among that lot. Plod then has to pursue "due diligence" in his duties,or give it best.
A Mercedes driver was stopped recently for a routine HM CRE (or whatever the current setup is) road fuel check. His car was siezed as the tank contained PARAFFIN (similar to avtur/jet a/kero) AKA central heating oil.
LUCKILY, he was able to produce a receipt that clearly showed he'd filled a similar quantity,shortly before, as DIESEL....he got his car back (with a -by then-damaged injector-pump) The garage was raided and went bust.
receipts cost money to issue,it's done for a REASON. please adopt a professional approach to your personal spending /receipts and you will find hidden benefits....return items failed in warranty....settle disputes with newsagent/window cleaner/milkman.
Even prove to your employer that you've BOUGHT more miniatures than you have now! (if they haven't raided your dustbins for empties on a regular basis, they cannot determine if any are STOLEN )
learn from management practies. they cover their ass, you should cover yours. PSST-mine's a Bells.
There's no real difference between documenting what you do on the Flightdeck, Galley, Check in or "home PLC" your family affairs are your "private business"...it's really NOT difficult to stuff the receipts in your purse/wallet..then, when unloading the "shopping", tip the receipts into a bag/box/jar.
EVERY small businessperson HAS to do it!....It's no more difficult than saving all your 20p's /50p's/£coins/whatever,as some folk do on a regular basis.
If the lady,subject to enquiries,has followed this elementary "good housekeeping" routine.....she can simply drag her bag out of the attic and tell "plod" to find the documentation among that lot. Plod then has to pursue "due diligence" in his duties,or give it best.
A Mercedes driver was stopped recently for a routine HM CRE (or whatever the current setup is) road fuel check. His car was siezed as the tank contained PARAFFIN (similar to avtur/jet a/kero) AKA central heating oil.
LUCKILY, he was able to produce a receipt that clearly showed he'd filled a similar quantity,shortly before, as DIESEL....he got his car back (with a -by then-damaged injector-pump) The garage was raided and went bust.
receipts cost money to issue,it's done for a REASON. please adopt a professional approach to your personal spending /receipts and you will find hidden benefits....return items failed in warranty....settle disputes with newsagent/window cleaner/milkman.
Even prove to your employer that you've BOUGHT more miniatures than you have now! (if they haven't raided your dustbins for empties on a regular basis, they cannot determine if any are STOLEN )
learn from management practies. they cover their ass, you should cover yours. PSST-mine's a Bells.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A Farm
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BANEWBOI taken from the new crew purchase scheme. I stand corrected s/h can only take one bottle.
ii) On longhaul routes, the bottled water put on board for crew use can be
removed if not consumed. On shorthaul routes, one x 50cl still water may be
taken for personal consumption. Additional needs may be purchased as
required under the Crew Purchase Scheme.
ii) On longhaul routes, the bottled water put on board for crew use can be
removed if not consumed. On shorthaul routes, one x 50cl still water may be
taken for personal consumption. Additional needs may be purchased as
required under the Crew Purchase Scheme.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it is proven that the minatures were taken without permission then it is theft.
I can recall an aircraft cleaner, employed by a sub-contractor, being dismissed for taking 2 sachets of sugar from an aircraft he was cleaning. he had over 7 years service.
The company line was - the rules are published, you know the rules, you broke them, good-bye.
It went to appeal for unfair dismaissal and the dismissal was uipheld.
The 'theft' was reported by a cabin crew member.
BA should stop crew sales, then the line is very clear.
I can recall an aircraft cleaner, employed by a sub-contractor, being dismissed for taking 2 sachets of sugar from an aircraft he was cleaning. he had over 7 years service.
The company line was - the rules are published, you know the rules, you broke them, good-bye.
It went to appeal for unfair dismaissal and the dismissal was uipheld.
The 'theft' was reported by a cabin crew member.
BA should stop crew sales, then the line is very clear.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jimworcs
I have some miniatures in my cupboard, all of which were legitimately bought. I haven't kept the receipts. I have Tesco's goods in my kitchen, for which I also don't have the receipts.
It's not rocket science.
I have some miniatures in my cupboard, all of which were legitimately bought. I haven't kept the receipts. I have Tesco's goods in my kitchen, for which I also don't have the receipts.
It's not rocket science.
Last edited by blimey; 26th Feb 2008 at 21:36.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Age: 65
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
receipts
I have loads of things in my cupboards for which I don't have receipts. However, none of them are identical to the goods that my employer provides to their customers. Common sense should tell you that there is a big difference between keeping receipts for shopping from Tesco, and keeping receipts for something which, if you could not prove were legitmately obtained, could cost you your job. Just to reiterate, my point is that she is being investigated, but will have a chance to put her case. Being suspended does not imply guilt. I objected to the knee jerk reaction of the middle class outrage that the police should behave in such a manner for such "petty theft", and the implication that is was some kind of vendetta. These same people would want the book thrown at any petty thief who stole from them, especially if they are council estate yobs.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So applying your logic then anyone who works at Tesco and also shops there should keep their shopping receipts for as long as they have the goods in their cupboard, just in case the police decide to investigate them for an unrelated offence and think the can of baked beans may have been shoplifted.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jimworcs
No, just a loss of allowances and therefore a significant part of a crew member's income, and a reputation damaged by the guilty until proved innocent brigade.
As you don't seem to be a flyer, what are you doing on this site. Off you go now, and let us lower class johnnies with legitimate work-related concerns get on with it.
Being suspended does not imply guilt.
you flying people are above the law.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jimworcs this is an open forum, and as such you can both read and participate even if you are not cabin crew or cockpit crew. You can learn about our working lives and we can learn from your experience as a passenger on our flights. Personally though, I would draw the line at coming onto this forum as a merely interested party and then start to proselytize to the people for whom this forum is intended. It shows a lack of manners and it adds nothing of value to the thread. But that's just me.
Miniatures in the home without a receipt. At my home, should Company Security come for a gander, they would find a number of miniatures for which I have no reciept. I commute to work on company aircraft, and upon disembarkation am often presented with a barf bag containing a few miniatures, bags of nuts and a can of coke or something along those lines.
It's a fairly common form of courtesy in the industry.
I do the same thing for colleagues, both from my own company and from other airlines. (In exactly the same way I will always try to upgrade pilots and CC from other airlines who position with us but have been booked in tourist by their own mob)
So what should I do when they hand me one of those bags?
I could refuse it, and be considered surly and impolite.
I don't need miniatures, I make enough money to buy my own booze and then some. Yet I always accept, and thank prettily because I appreciate the sentiment behind the barf bag, I appreciate the tradition behind it and I enjoy the sense of 'belonging' that it gives both me and the person handing it to me.
Funny thing is, a few years back we had a raid after landing. Everybody into the nose, Security Services went through our bags for company items. In mine they found one of the barfbags described above. They asked me how had I come by it, I explained,and that was that. No further problems.
No it isn't rocket science jimworcs, but you're wrong none the less.
Miniatures in the home without a receipt. At my home, should Company Security come for a gander, they would find a number of miniatures for which I have no reciept. I commute to work on company aircraft, and upon disembarkation am often presented with a barf bag containing a few miniatures, bags of nuts and a can of coke or something along those lines.
It's a fairly common form of courtesy in the industry.
I do the same thing for colleagues, both from my own company and from other airlines. (In exactly the same way I will always try to upgrade pilots and CC from other airlines who position with us but have been booked in tourist by their own mob)
So what should I do when they hand me one of those bags?
I could refuse it, and be considered surly and impolite.
I don't need miniatures, I make enough money to buy my own booze and then some. Yet I always accept, and thank prettily because I appreciate the sentiment behind the barf bag, I appreciate the tradition behind it and I enjoy the sense of 'belonging' that it gives both me and the person handing it to me.
Funny thing is, a few years back we had a raid after landing. Everybody into the nose, Security Services went through our bags for company items. In mine they found one of the barfbags described above. They asked me how had I come by it, I explained,and that was that. No further problems.
No it isn't rocket science jimworcs, but you're wrong none the less.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Age: 65
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Different rules
I cannot understand why you think the rules should be different in your industry. There are loads of companies which require staff to provide evidence that property has not been taken from them. My father worked on the line at Vauxhalls and was subject to random searching to see if any company property was stolen. My mother worked at Cadbury's, and you could only purchase items from there that were specifically marked as for employee purchase. I have no idea if Mrs. Sheridan stole the minatures or not, but it would be prudent for you have receipts for goods which were obtained from the company. I cannot understand why being in Aviation should be any different. ~ what makes this industry so different from any other industry... and when it is questioned, you get a load of messages telling you to get off the forum! Jeez, lighten up, it's an internet forum.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know what your educational background is jimworcs, but even a simple skywaitress like me knows that 1 (one) message saying "off you go" doesn't equal 'a load of messages telling you to get off the forum'. Lies are usually an attempt at concealing a paucity of arguments, but I'm sure you have another explanation.
Since you are the only one getting worked up here, I suggest you take your own advice to heart.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: glasgow
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well im very very glad that i live in such a safe society that is the west coast of scotland specifically glasgow in that the police have nothing better or more important to do with their working time to report a crewmember for alledgedly misapropriating some little minitures of alcohol....i mean im glad that we dont have a really high rate of burglary or assault or knife crime or drug offences....
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 0.2 nm N of 09L LHR
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Theft is theft it does not matter wether the police have nothing better to do or not, if your removing something from n aircrat you shouldn't then your your no better than a burglar or shoplifter end of story. You can twist it any way you want if you've not paid for it its theft.............simple.