Doors, opening of...

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
I'm an engineer and I meet cabin crew every day as part of the job.One thing I did notice recently is that some of them appear to have difficulty with opening doors.Two incidents come to mind:A crew waited outside an aircraft, even though things were running late.None of them made any attempt to open the door and get inside.I opened the aircraft and powered it up.The girls boarded without saying a word.I asked one of the juniors why they hadn't opened up.Waiting 'til the Senior was out of earshot, she said that she'd suggested it but had been shot down by the Senior, who said they "we" do not open doors, only flight crew or engineers.I then asked the Senior, who stated that they were only trained to open doors from within.This I found very hard to believe as they were operating to and from regional airports, with no airbridges or steps to deal with.I asked other CCMs from other flights and they all said as much.I thought that it was bunk then and still is, today.Another time,on an A320, this time,the crew were actually standing out in the rain, waiting for someone else to open up.Again, the Juniors seemed to be intimidated by the Senior, who had crossed over from the long-range fleet, and kept schtum.In this case, the Senior admitted later that she had never opened a 320 door from outside, even though it's operation is the same as the bigger jet's door....I sent a safety note to our air safety people but heard nothing back.
So, are CCMs in other airlines able to open doors from outside?
regards
TDD

[Tea or coffee sir]

I've worked for several airlines, and although we have always been trained how to open an aircraft door from outside, it is something we would not do. Our training was that it was an engineer or flight crew member who had to do it. At the airline I'm with now, we can't even open from the inside unless it's an emergency, doors have to be opened from outside by ground staff.

[Airbus321-200]

that wouldnt happen to be a very large LH only airline based out of LHR would it??? I think not letting crew open the doors on a day to day basis is crazy!! Because in an emergency it'll be important that you can feel how the door operates and how heavy some are! In my last airline based at LHR we could not open the door from the outside. only flight crew or engineers were allowed. But in my most recent airline they didnt mind as long as we made sure the door was not armed!!! (737)

[Balboy]

Same at Tfly. For years cabin crew were allowed to open doors from the outside. Around 3 years ago though, it became forbidden for us to do so.

Only engineers are allowed to do so now ( not sure about flight crew ).

[tightslop]

Its the same at easyJet. only flight deck or engineers allowed as one of our crew had a nasty incident in edinburgh a few years back when he was blown off the stairs when closing the door due to the severity of the wind. Not sure if he is back at work yet ( 4 years later) Cabin crew are not allowed to move the stair rails now either, only ground staff can

[rubik101]

Having flown for almost thirty years and opened doors from the outside for most of them, I am now of the opinion that the main fwd doors should NOT be opened from the outside by Flight Deck or Cabin Crew from the air stairs. The above mentioned incident occurred to a colleague and he has not flown since due to spinal injury.
The B737 fwd door in particular is very dangerous in windy conditions. The platform/step to stand on is far too small to be safe and the angle of the stairs too steep to be safe without the fully extended hand rails.
Far better and safer is to open the door from the mobile stairs provided by the ground handlers. Then the platform is large and stable. If they are only at the rear door then that should be opened first and the fwd door opened from inside.
If you think differently, fine, but next time you open the fwd door in the wind and rain from the top of the stairs, just remember what has already happened to a pilot and realise that it could so easily happen to you.

[AviationNE]

At Thomsonfly Only TA Coordinators, and Engineers are allowed to open the doors from the outside. At Flybe crew are no longer required to close doors due to de icing fluid inside the doors making it slippy.

[nrm2]

UK to Irish rules

Ive flown under UK rules - and found it quite common that cabin crew cant open doors from the outside - waiting instead for an enginner or in somecases the cockpit crew.

Just moved to an Irish reg'd carrier - and we were infact trained to do it from both sides - in and out.

Find it very strange that that certain LH airline in the UK doesnt permit its cabin crew to close doors from the inside under normal ops! its a good thing to be comfortable doing - incase that awful day where u actually neeed to open it quickly comes!

Just my opinion!

[Leezyjet]

At LHR's 2nd biggest carrier, g/staff were not allowed to open the door from the outside on a live arrival, and also were not allowed to even bang on the door to indicate the jet bridge was on and it was safe to open. Lost count of how many times I and my colleauges had to stop the jetty to shout at the crew to close the door so we could put the bridge on.

Apparently came about as a result of g/staff at an outstation banging on the door, and crew not disarming the door before opening it, so the banging was stopped as it "distracted the crew"

Now they have Airbusses rather than Boeings, it would actually be safer to open from the outside as the mechanism "should" disarm the slide, which it won't if opened from the inside !!.

[wiggy]

LeezyJet

It's not just on AIrbus - on the bigger Boeings opening the door from outside should automatically disarm the slide..which meant for many years at LHR's largets airline Cabin Crew were forbidden from opening the door on arrival - it had to be done from outside.

However a while ago it all changed (again), doors now only opened from inside on arrival...............go figure

[FormerFlyer]

how things change!

I remember being trained at both MON & EZY how to open doors from inside & out - not much fun teetering at the top of the steps at L1 on a 737, so I can understand why the changes have been made....mind you I am going back 10 years or so lol

cheers
FF

[Amixtika]

Hi everyone, just joined this site!
I work for Spanair, only for 4 years, but since I started we have always been shown how to open the doors from the outside, and if we get to the aircraft first thing in the morning and it's closed, anyone can open it, don't need to ask for permission or anything.

[HZ123]

This seems to be a very safe idea not to encourage CC or anyone else who has not had a course to open doors. The risk of opening the door from the outside is the chute being deployed and I doubt that CC would know how to check the 'girt' bar. Neither if you wearing a skirt is it the easiest task to do. Often doors have not been disarmed from the inside as CC have lots of things on their minds when the FC give the order.

[TightSlot]

I doubt that CC would know how to check the 'girt' bar

CC check, double-check and operate the girt bar every time they arm/disarm a door: Additionally, all CC will be trained in door opening/closing from both inside and outside, even if company policy is for them not to open from the outside.

Often doors have not been disarmed from the inside as CC have lots of things on their minds when the FC give the order

Do you actually have any experience as operating Cabin Crew?

[the letter]

On my latest flights the ground staff (service staff) opened the door (5L on B747) from the outside. The pax was waiting to disembark. Is this a normal procedure because I have been told ground staff should not open the doors?

[britboi]

I work fot Tfly and as somebody has already mentioned, we used to be able to open doors from the outside which has now changed. The reason we were given is that if the door is closed when we get to the aircraft it is because it has been security sealed and only engineers are allowed to break the seal.

[apaddyinuk]

At BA we are not supposed to open them from the outside either. Infact I have not been shown how to open the 767 or 777 doors although for some reason someone did talk us through the opening of the 747 ones from outside. Now if it was pouring down with rain I do not think I would hesitate in teaching myself but otherwise I would wait until the correct people come along. Afterall, our job is to get people OUT of an aircraft in an emergency...Not into them!!!!

[Matt101]

hey apaddyinuk

I work for BA too. I remember being shown how to open the door and even that we are to retain the security seal and hand it over to the dispatcher, however though I know how to open the door from the outside I never have because I have gained the impression we aren't supposed to though If I am honest I don't ever remember being told not to.

Could you point me to the relevant FCO?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Trying to get my head round this but are you folk saying that professional aircrew are not allowed to open aircraft doors..................

[apaddyinuk]

Hey Matt101

I havent a clue where in the FCO's it states that we cant, Just remember being told so in Initial Training some years ago. And considering it is an aspect that is not even covered in annual SEP it just goes to show that it is really not something we should be approaching. I completed a Back-To-Work course last year which is like a extra long annual SEP including aircraft visits and it was not even covered then either. Madness!!!!

Seldomfitforpurpose....

No that is not what is being said. What is being said is that many airlines of standard operating procedures which request crews not to open doors from OUTSIDE. This is very different from opening and closing doors from the inside where the arming mechanisms are.

However having said that...Virgin dont even touch their doors for some reason!