Carrying Baddies?!
Guest
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Carrying Baddies?!
Dear All,
The following is a copy of a thread I've posted in R&N.
I'm doing some research into the carriage of inadmissables/deportees/extraditees/refugees (and any other -ees you can think of!) on international and domestic flights. Would appreciate some input on how it all stands from the crew perspective e.g. have any of you captains ever refused carriage etc. etc.. Do crew adopt any radically different procedures while carrying these people? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
Cheers in advance.
The following is a copy of a thread I've posted in R&N.
I'm doing some research into the carriage of inadmissables/deportees/extraditees/refugees (and any other -ees you can think of!) on international and domestic flights. Would appreciate some input on how it all stands from the crew perspective e.g. have any of you captains ever refused carriage etc. etc.. Do crew adopt any radically different procedures while carrying these people? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
Cheers in advance.
Guest
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This is pretty touchy stuff, also re the legal aspects. To elicit response here you should probably be more specific as to why you want the info.
For starters, every company has it's own set of rules and would lilely tell you about them if you approached them directly.
Good luck.
For starters, every company has it's own set of rules and would lilely tell you about them if you approached them directly.
Good luck.
Guest
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Thanks flapsforty. I do understand the touchiness of it all - truth be told I'm simply writing a discussion paper on the topic.
Not surprisingly, as I'm not an employee, most airlines are very reluctant to hand out information of a sensitive nature which pertains to their operations. That's okay though, I'm probably searching more for anecdotal evidence, and stories of how the legal aspects actually work in the real world anyway.
Not surprisingly, as I'm not an employee, most airlines are very reluctant to hand out information of a sensitive nature which pertains to their operations. That's okay though, I'm probably searching more for anecdotal evidence, and stories of how the legal aspects actually work in the real world anyway.
Guest
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A number of deportees/refugees and passengers of this ilk show up at the aircraft door accompanied by a customs agent and with proper and approved documentation that clears the person involved for transportation on the flight. These papers (which usually include the travellers passport) are held by the flight crew until debarkation at the arrival destination. Sometimes at the arrival end the traveller is greeted by a customs, police of other authoritive officer. I hand the papers over to them and they escort the person off. If no one is specifically waiting for the person, I hand the pouch to the greet agent at the door.
Inadmissable people are a whole different breed and do not make it down the bridge to board the flight to my knowledge as they are already flagged in the computer system as such and are denied at the time they attempt to reserve or purchase a ticket. Hope this helps.
Inadmissable people are a whole different breed and do not make it down the bridge to board the flight to my knowledge as they are already flagged in the computer system as such and are denied at the time they attempt to reserve or purchase a ticket. Hope this helps.
Guest
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Thanks Flygirl - it did help. I take it from your post that some of these people were permitted on board unaccompanied. Was this company policy? Was a risk assessment carried out by the company prior to admittance? Did it make you nervous? The reason I ask is that during my research I have read of incidences where an unaccompanied person such as this has hijacked the flight rather than risk returning to their home nation.
ff, I probably should have been clearer in the original post - I'm not so interested in acts of pure air rage, rather, the people who have already committed an offence (even as minor as overstaying a visa) and are being transported elsewhere. Thanks again to you both.
ff, I probably should have been clearer in the original post - I'm not so interested in acts of pure air rage, rather, the people who have already committed an offence (even as minor as overstaying a visa) and are being transported elsewhere. Thanks again to you both.
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There's an "FAA technical problem" in keeping a "baddy" in manacles during critical phases of flight, I believe, in the interests of his/her safety.
Also, certain countries where booze is not permitted will sometimes deport "booze" offenders and I have heard of these being escorted to the airport in manacles and handed over to the flight. Not sure at what stage the 'cuffs" come off, but I'm sure the authorities do not let the manacles go with the flight!
Of course, in these cases there's no need for the cops to meet the deportee at his destination!
Also, certain countries where booze is not permitted will sometimes deport "booze" offenders and I have heard of these being escorted to the airport in manacles and handed over to the flight. Not sure at what stage the 'cuffs" come off, but I'm sure the authorities do not let the manacles go with the flight!
Of course, in these cases there's no need for the cops to meet the deportee at his destination!
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OK Adamastor.
In our company we do it slightly different from what Flygirl describes. People whom the powers-that-be have decided are not wanted in country are accepted on the national carrier under certain conditions. They are graded as to the level of danger they supposedly pose. The first category, ranging from non violent illegal immigrants to prostitutes having outstayed their "tourist visa", travel unaccompanied. Chief FA gets handed their papers by the authorities who deliver these pax to the plane. As soon as we're in the air, we hand back the documents to the owners. This because we are NOT the authorities nor an extension of them. Never had any problems yet with this category. They are usually totally peacefull, get treated like any other pax by ourselves and are often allready planning their return trip!
Second category travels accompanied by 1 or more police officers. Police officers handle the papers and the pax. Danger here has been shown to lie in the other passengers. When the original criminal gets violent, often his countrymen decide to come to the rescue. And then there isn't a hell of a lot 2 police people and some FA's can do. Pretty scary in fact.
I've also been on flights were people were transported handcuffed all the way, again accompanied by law enforcement. Who then are supposedly responsible for O2 masks and evacuation in case of emergency.
If you want to know more, feel free to mail me.
In our company we do it slightly different from what Flygirl describes. People whom the powers-that-be have decided are not wanted in country are accepted on the national carrier under certain conditions. They are graded as to the level of danger they supposedly pose. The first category, ranging from non violent illegal immigrants to prostitutes having outstayed their "tourist visa", travel unaccompanied. Chief FA gets handed their papers by the authorities who deliver these pax to the plane. As soon as we're in the air, we hand back the documents to the owners. This because we are NOT the authorities nor an extension of them. Never had any problems yet with this category. They are usually totally peacefull, get treated like any other pax by ourselves and are often allready planning their return trip!
Second category travels accompanied by 1 or more police officers. Police officers handle the papers and the pax. Danger here has been shown to lie in the other passengers. When the original criminal gets violent, often his countrymen decide to come to the rescue. And then there isn't a hell of a lot 2 police people and some FA's can do. Pretty scary in fact.
I've also been on flights were people were transported handcuffed all the way, again accompanied by law enforcement. Who then are supposedly responsible for O2 masks and evacuation in case of emergency.
If you want to know more, feel free to mail me.
Guest
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Okay Adamastor you mean that kind of baddie!
If the person has just overstayed their welcome and have no criminal charges against them, they are left at the aircraft door and fly unescorted, getting their papers returned upon arrival. We as crew are not given many details about the person being deported. Although I'm not familiar with the screening done by the company, I'm satisfied that it is sufficient due to a lack of incidents. Was I nervous? Like most things you experience for the first time, it was admittedly unsettling (especially my first handcuffed prisoners), but these kind of transportees do not cause you to bat an eye eventually. Sometimes you do have to have a soothing word with the passengers seated around them though. Most of the ones I've had on board are harmless, polite and not in fear of being returned to Canada of the US (my flying field). I can't speak for overseas flight but I've never heard of any problem.
If the person being transported has been convicted or is on trial for any criminal charge they are always accompanied by a law officer. Depending on the seriousness of the offence, they can be in cuffs or not. Carrying a person accompanied by an officer(s) comes with strict inflight rules. These may vary from airline to airline but I suspect the logic behind them is recognized and practiced by most major carriers. Here's our policy.
Prisoners with escorts must be pre-boarded.
Capt must be advised of their presence or expected presence and seating location.
Should be seated in the rear of the aircraft and not adjacent to an emergency or normal exit.
The escort must seat himself/herself between the prisoner and the aisle. Any restraining devices (eg. handcuffs) must not be attached to any part of the aircraft or it's furnishing.
Crew are to check with the escort prior to offering hot beverages or utensils to the prisoner.
No alcohol is to be served to the escort or prisoner.
They will deplane the aircraft last.
ExSimGuy, I can't speak for FAA regs. but I know manacles are allowed in Canada as long as they are not fixed to the aircraft. Although some people of the prisoner's aquaintance might consider them a justifiable casuality in an air disaster, airlines can't abet this opinion by letting the prisoner "go down with the ship".
If the person has just overstayed their welcome and have no criminal charges against them, they are left at the aircraft door and fly unescorted, getting their papers returned upon arrival. We as crew are not given many details about the person being deported. Although I'm not familiar with the screening done by the company, I'm satisfied that it is sufficient due to a lack of incidents. Was I nervous? Like most things you experience for the first time, it was admittedly unsettling (especially my first handcuffed prisoners), but these kind of transportees do not cause you to bat an eye eventually. Sometimes you do have to have a soothing word with the passengers seated around them though. Most of the ones I've had on board are harmless, polite and not in fear of being returned to Canada of the US (my flying field). I can't speak for overseas flight but I've never heard of any problem.
If the person being transported has been convicted or is on trial for any criminal charge they are always accompanied by a law officer. Depending on the seriousness of the offence, they can be in cuffs or not. Carrying a person accompanied by an officer(s) comes with strict inflight rules. These may vary from airline to airline but I suspect the logic behind them is recognized and practiced by most major carriers. Here's our policy.
Prisoners with escorts must be pre-boarded.
Capt must be advised of their presence or expected presence and seating location.
Should be seated in the rear of the aircraft and not adjacent to an emergency or normal exit.
The escort must seat himself/herself between the prisoner and the aisle. Any restraining devices (eg. handcuffs) must not be attached to any part of the aircraft or it's furnishing.
Crew are to check with the escort prior to offering hot beverages or utensils to the prisoner.
No alcohol is to be served to the escort or prisoner.
They will deplane the aircraft last.
ExSimGuy, I can't speak for FAA regs. but I know manacles are allowed in Canada as long as they are not fixed to the aircraft. Although some people of the prisoner's aquaintance might consider them a justifiable casuality in an air disaster, airlines can't abet this opinion by letting the prisoner "go down with the ship".
Guest
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For those that are interested, here's a website with the US regulations:
http://cas.faa.gov/foia/circulars/carweap.html
Thanks again to all!
http://cas.faa.gov/foia/circulars/carweap.html
Thanks again to all!
