Cabin Crew Pay - Time for a Change?
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Cabin Crew Pay - Time for a Change?
The present situation will allow many airlines to drastically realign their payscales for crew members.
Based on real life (ie the world outside airlines), I'd suggest the following:
1) Captains: pay equal to senior managers
2) First Officers: pay equal to junior managers
3) Pursers/CSDs: pay equal to or slightly higher than First Officers
4) Cabin Crew: substantially increased in current terms to encourage personnel to view flying as a viable career.
In addition, I'd suggest that the seniority system be abolished and that promotion be on the basis of ability and mutual agreement.
Comments/suggestions?
Based on real life (ie the world outside airlines), I'd suggest the following:
1) Captains: pay equal to senior managers
2) First Officers: pay equal to junior managers
3) Pursers/CSDs: pay equal to or slightly higher than First Officers
4) Cabin Crew: substantially increased in current terms to encourage personnel to view flying as a viable career.
In addition, I'd suggest that the seniority system be abolished and that promotion be on the basis of ability and mutual agreement.
Comments/suggestions?
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GUV,
I would agree with you that CSD/IFD need a pay increase..Those employed under the old BA pay scale do well, however in the charter sector pay is not even a sniff on what it should be.
Pay at my last company for an IFD was close to 16K basic + 3Pounds FDP + 10% Commission.
Average take home for them was 1500 per month, No 2's about 1350 and Juniors 1100.
(averaging 12 trips per month, short haul charter).
Hows about the likes of Licenced Load Controllers despatching 5 flights per shift 5 days per week (sometimes more), irattic shifts, DETR authorised for AAA security, and Loadsheet producing taking 700 - 800 pounds a month home. That is bad....I've been there.
Cheers,
starship
I would agree with you that CSD/IFD need a pay increase..Those employed under the old BA pay scale do well, however in the charter sector pay is not even a sniff on what it should be.
Pay at my last company for an IFD was close to 16K basic + 3Pounds FDP + 10% Commission.
Average take home for them was 1500 per month, No 2's about 1350 and Juniors 1100.
(averaging 12 trips per month, short haul charter).
Hows about the likes of Licenced Load Controllers despatching 5 flights per shift 5 days per week (sometimes more), irattic shifts, DETR authorised for AAA security, and Loadsheet producing taking 700 - 800 pounds a month home. That is bad....I've been there.
Cheers,
starship
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I think the basis of point 4 is a mistake. The airline does not want you to have aspirations for a career. It wants young fresh enthusiastic personalities to come and burn themselves out whilst thinking that there crap wages are a bonus for this great opportunity to see the world. Please dont turn into a crusty old career plateservers with ideas above your station!! Nice idea Guv but i think u must be a BA old boy, non?
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Nothing wrong with BA as a career... In fact if you want to make a career of flying, BA is probably your best option. The only problem is the brain washing..... It's a shame you all think you are above the charter crews who in my opinion work alot harder and dont get there noses wiped by there management. 
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I don't think I am above charter crews, I think they do a damn good job and they take a lot of c*** and work a lot more harder than we do. A lot of my friends and colleagues are ex-charter
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Having been in the BA group for many years I feel you are in the minority if thats the case. Most BA crew feel they are up on a pedestall and look down there noses at the rest.
Your comment about others being bitter at there rejection letters speaks volumes I'm afraid.......
Your comment about others being bitter at there rejection letters speaks volumes I'm afraid.......
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On this thread over in Rumours & News this same individ has tried to split up those of us who actually work in the airline business.
Happily, most of the paticipants have not fallen for his cheap ruse, apart from a few very sad cases who obviously don't know any better.
Let's see if we can do the same here and not rise to his bait? On that thread I forcefully tried to make the point that cabin crew are NOT
in fact a bunch of sad individuals blessed with minimun brain capacity and a very limited perspective.
Perhaps we can prove as much here?
Please?
Happily, most of the paticipants have not fallen for his cheap ruse, apart from a few very sad cases who obviously don't know any better.
Let's see if we can do the same here and not rise to his bait? On that thread I forcefully tried to make the point that cabin crew are NOT
in fact a bunch of sad individuals blessed with minimun brain capacity and a very limited perspective. Perhaps we can prove as much here?
Please?
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It is difficult to know what exactly the job descriptions such as junior manager etc entail. Salaries, rosters, working conditions etc all vary from company to company irrespective of the job title. It is not productive to have negative discussion on this issue as it will not increase anyone's salary! A split workforce who are disagreeing with one another will be easily controlled by the powers that be.
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Why on earth would you want to pay a biscuit chucker/ plate layer/ tucker f*cker as much or 'more' than an F/O. Sure they have a certain responsibility, but :
1.They train a fraction of a time of an F/O.
2.They do not spend close to 60k to lay plates.
3.There are only a small fraction of them that are any good, i.e. know where and how to use the equipment in an emergency.
4.Very few male c/c are sure of their sex, making the job even more difficult for the 'straight' male c/c who have their jobs constantly devalued by the formers antics.
and lastly, they have no idea of rank, i.e.
the majority think that the 'Purser' is
second in command.
Get Real Guv.
1.They train a fraction of a time of an F/O.
2.They do not spend close to 60k to lay plates.
3.There are only a small fraction of them that are any good, i.e. know where and how to use the equipment in an emergency.
4.Very few male c/c are sure of their sex, making the job even more difficult for the 'straight' male c/c who have their jobs constantly devalued by the formers antics.
and lastly, they have no idea of rank, i.e.
the majority think that the 'Purser' is
second in command.
Get Real Guv.
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I totally agree with Quidnunc regarding the Guvnor. What a sphincter! Have you seen some of the cr*p he puts into these forums. Tellme Guv, do you have any idea what both jobs (Cabin Crew and Flight Deck) involve, and the training to achieve these positions?
18months of hard graft and endless exams just achieve a CPL with no guarantee of a job. Oh yes, the odd £50/60k that's also required to fund this. The responsibilites are somewhat different me thinks, and no cabin crew member should be paid more than an F.O. I'm sure I could dish out coffees and teas and get people down those slides but I very much doubt that a CSD/Purser could get an airliner down on the tarmac in one piece......even on a CAVOK day with no wind (do you know what CAVOK means GUV?)
Crew should be paid the market rate according to their job positions. In BA the cabin crew with allowances do very nicely compared with likes of Virgin, BMI, JMC etc. However the flight crew in the above stated airline do not. I started on £20K which is a joke!
Obviously you spend too much time behind your PC making up threads like these and playing the odd game of flight sim. Get real!
18months of hard graft and endless exams just achieve a CPL with no guarantee of a job. Oh yes, the odd £50/60k that's also required to fund this. The responsibilites are somewhat different me thinks, and no cabin crew member should be paid more than an F.O. I'm sure I could dish out coffees and teas and get people down those slides but I very much doubt that a CSD/Purser could get an airliner down on the tarmac in one piece......even on a CAVOK day with no wind (do you know what CAVOK means GUV?)
Crew should be paid the market rate according to their job positions. In BA the cabin crew with allowances do very nicely compared with likes of Virgin, BMI, JMC etc. However the flight crew in the above stated airline do not. I started on £20K which is a joke!
Obviously you spend too much time behind your PC making up threads like these and playing the odd game of flight sim. Get real!
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(Going against the grain, I'll leave out the traditional insult to the Guvnor. But nothing personal mate.) W, I know you weren't saying BA CC are well-paid in absolute terms, but comments like the one you make help to reinforce the general myth that we do very nicely thankyou. My basic pay is £9660. Ah, you say, but you coin it in allowances. No, I don't. You can do OK if you get the good trips. But at Gatwick long-haul there is only one that brings a decent return. I've done that one precisely twice in four years. My take-home is usually well under £1200 pm.
I'm only a junior grunt, and of course we shouldn't be paid as much as an F/O. But even in BA, we are NOT well-paid. How the rest of you in the real world cope, I know not.
I'm only a junior grunt, and of course we shouldn't be paid as much as an F/O. But even in BA, we are NOT well-paid. How the rest of you in the real world cope, I know not.
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Evidently this must be a wind up.
CSD paid "the same as" or "HIGHER" than an FO. I have to agree with a number of other posts on this.....what a joke. If that becomes the case all F/O's in the airline should strike for a pay increase.
I feel F/O's are UNDERPAID considering the substantial financial outlay in the first place. Lets compare 2 yrs worth of training versus a 4 week course and they still come out with better pay.....NO WAY.
I am not putting down Cabin Crew after all we need someone to talk to or it gets a bit boring.
CSD paid "the same as" or "HIGHER" than an FO. I have to agree with a number of other posts on this.....what a joke. If that becomes the case all F/O's in the airline should strike for a pay increase.
I feel F/O's are UNDERPAID considering the substantial financial outlay in the first place. Lets compare 2 yrs worth of training versus a 4 week course and they still come out with better pay.....NO WAY.
I am not putting down Cabin Crew after all we need someone to talk to or it gets a bit boring.