Economy Class Syndrome
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: (EWR) New Jersey, USA
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Economy Class Syndrome
In the article "A Law Firm in Australia Sues 3 Airlines Over an Illness" (see http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/business/18AUSS.html , registration required but free of cost or obligation), what is the proximate cause of deep-vein thrombosis? Is it poorly designed seat and seating? If so, just how wide are the economy class seats on QF, BA and KL, and how many of those seats make up a single row on a wide-body jet?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it is the seat pitch that is the supposed problem, ie, the amount of room between you and the seatback infront. In other words the lack of legroom. BA economy class have 7 seats across on the 767-300, not sure about the other jets. Hope this helps!
Anyone fu'coffee?
[ 21 July 2001: Message edited by: MinimumRest ]
Anyone fu'coffee?
[ 21 July 2001: Message edited by: MinimumRest ]
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think one of the major problems in all of these incidents is that the people who are affected simply do not leave their seats for the duration of the flt. Scary considering how long some of the flts are. Seats should be made bigger but this would considerably raise the cost of flying. How many people would be happy with that.
At Virgin our 747s have 10 seats across.
At Virgin our 747s have 10 seats across.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Economy Class Syndrome' is a complete misnomer in that it affects people subject to prolonged immobility be they in economy, business, first, on a bus or in a hospital bed. The problem has nothing to do with seat design and everything to do with people not leaving their seat for 12 hours. There are very simple ways of avoiding DVT on a flight such as taking a walk if possible, and if not then carrying out simple in-seat stretching exercises regularly.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: (EWR) New Jersey, USA
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without question, seat design is a major part of the problem, especially on long flights. It would be impossible for everyone on board to get up and walk around. There just isn't enough aisle room, especially on crowded flights. And even if there were aisle room, just imagine the injuries from an unexpected encounter with air turbulence.
Coach seats should have an inside width of at least 24 inches and plenty of leg room. At least a pax would be able to shift positions until he or she could get up to walk and stretch.
Coach seats should have an inside width of at least 24 inches and plenty of leg room. At least a pax would be able to shift positions until he or she could get up to walk and stretch.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: London
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't often post in this bit, but reading some of the comments thought I would throw in my thoughts on this. It has already been 'done to death' on other forums.
It is a corporate 'spin' to use the explanation that economy class syndrome is not confined to economy or even air travel, and that it could happen sitting on a train. It is of course correct that a person could theoretically suffer from DVT whilst watching telly at home, but their are some real differences involved with passengers flying. It is these differences that make DVT more likely in an aircraft, and more likely still in cramped seating.
Factors such as, dehydration, low air pressure, low oxygen tension, drinking alcohol, may all play a part. Most of these are not present whilst watching telly at home.(drinking maybe)
As for mobility, as some people have rightly pointed out, when in the middle of a row of four or five, it can be very difficult to 'just get up and walk about'. Equally, for those who are very tall, the notion of being able to do 'at the seat' exercising is a joke (and the airlines know it), when knees are pinned hard against the seat in front. Why economy? well if you are sitting for some time on a seat (with plenty of room) you naturally tend to move your position regularly, but if you have no room to move, it is less likely you will move, and even then the degree of movement may be restricted.
So, technically, it is incorrect to call DVT economy class syndrome, but from another perspective, all the evidence suggests that it is more likely in cramped conditions on an aircraft. The effect varies from person to person depending on medication (HRT, the pill) and also genetic factors, such as those who have a different version of one of the clotting factors in the blood (factor 5).
If you would like lots of legroom long haul, perhaps the best airline at present is American Airlines, with the largest seat pitch in regular (not premium) economy. Watch out for code shares though. Hope that helps, and I've offended no-one.
If anyone from American is on this site, it would be interesting to know if FA's find it easier to deal with passengers, with less complaints, fewer seat per overhead locker, easier access to rows, etc.. than on other aircraft with less passenger space. I ask that simply because that was the justification used by American for re-configuring their fleet. That is, they said it was one of the commonest complaints from passengers.
It is a corporate 'spin' to use the explanation that economy class syndrome is not confined to economy or even air travel, and that it could happen sitting on a train. It is of course correct that a person could theoretically suffer from DVT whilst watching telly at home, but their are some real differences involved with passengers flying. It is these differences that make DVT more likely in an aircraft, and more likely still in cramped seating.
Factors such as, dehydration, low air pressure, low oxygen tension, drinking alcohol, may all play a part. Most of these are not present whilst watching telly at home.(drinking maybe)
As for mobility, as some people have rightly pointed out, when in the middle of a row of four or five, it can be very difficult to 'just get up and walk about'. Equally, for those who are very tall, the notion of being able to do 'at the seat' exercising is a joke (and the airlines know it), when knees are pinned hard against the seat in front. Why economy? well if you are sitting for some time on a seat (with plenty of room) you naturally tend to move your position regularly, but if you have no room to move, it is less likely you will move, and even then the degree of movement may be restricted.
So, technically, it is incorrect to call DVT economy class syndrome, but from another perspective, all the evidence suggests that it is more likely in cramped conditions on an aircraft. The effect varies from person to person depending on medication (HRT, the pill) and also genetic factors, such as those who have a different version of one of the clotting factors in the blood (factor 5).
If you would like lots of legroom long haul, perhaps the best airline at present is American Airlines, with the largest seat pitch in regular (not premium) economy. Watch out for code shares though. Hope that helps, and I've offended no-one.
If anyone from American is on this site, it would be interesting to know if FA's find it easier to deal with passengers, with less complaints, fewer seat per overhead locker, easier access to rows, etc.. than on other aircraft with less passenger space. I ask that simply because that was the justification used by American for re-configuring their fleet. That is, they said it was one of the commonest complaints from passengers.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is a link to an article published by the Aerospace Medical Association...
"TRAVELLER’S THROMBOSIS
Review of Deep Vein Thrombosis associated with Travel
April 2001
Introduction
Deep vein (or venous) thrombosis is a condition in which a small blood clot (thrombus) or clots (thrombi) develop(s) in the deep veins usually of the leg. The condition itself is not dangerous, but the complication of pulmonary embolism (venous thromboembolism – VTE) can of course be life threatening.
There is increasing suspicion amongst the travelling public and the international media of an association between the occurrence of deep vein thrombosis (DVT) and air travel, but so far there is only circumstantial rather than epidemiological evidence in support of this (Ref 18). It has been reported (personal communication) that a number of international airlines are receiving writs from lawyers representing passengers who have suffered DVT in flight.
This paper by the Air Transport Medicine Committee of the Aerospace Medical Association provides an overview of current scientific evidence."
Full text:
Traveller's Thrombosis
"TRAVELLER’S THROMBOSIS
Review of Deep Vein Thrombosis associated with Travel
April 2001
Introduction
Deep vein (or venous) thrombosis is a condition in which a small blood clot (thrombus) or clots (thrombi) develop(s) in the deep veins usually of the leg. The condition itself is not dangerous, but the complication of pulmonary embolism (venous thromboembolism – VTE) can of course be life threatening.
There is increasing suspicion amongst the travelling public and the international media of an association between the occurrence of deep vein thrombosis (DVT) and air travel, but so far there is only circumstantial rather than epidemiological evidence in support of this (Ref 18). It has been reported (personal communication) that a number of international airlines are receiving writs from lawyers representing passengers who have suffered DVT in flight.
This paper by the Air Transport Medicine Committee of the Aerospace Medical Association provides an overview of current scientific evidence."
Full text:
Traveller's Thrombosis
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: London
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very interesting info. As any medic/scientist would tell you, the reason for a lack of scientific evidence showing a link is due to a lack of good studies, and the inability to get reliable results because of the number of factors involved.
The same is true of many areas of medicine where using the categories of evidence based medicine, sometimes a really critical medical question can only be addressed through one of the lower categories, that is expert opinion. I have a feeling that the ensuing court cases will hinge on a lot of 'expert opinion' due to the lack of good (type 1/2) evidence.
My question is : Who funds the Aerospace Medical Association? (rhetorical)
The same is true of many areas of medicine where using the categories of evidence based medicine, sometimes a really critical medical question can only be addressed through one of the lower categories, that is expert opinion. I have a feeling that the ensuing court cases will hinge on a lot of 'expert opinion' due to the lack of good (type 1/2) evidence.
My question is : Who funds the Aerospace Medical Association? (rhetorical)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My question is : Who funds the Aerospace Medical Association?
Since you asked the question...
"The Aerospace Medical Association (AsMA) was founded in 1929 under the guidance of Louis H. Bauer, M.D., the first medical director of the Aeronautics Branch of the Department of Commerce (which later became the FAA). Dr. Bauer and his associates dedicated themselves and the new Association to "dissemination of information as will enhance the accuracy of their specialized art...thereby affording a greater guarantee of safety to the public and the pilot, alike; and to cooperate... in furthering the progress of aeronautics in the United States." From the 1929 organizational meeting of 29 "aeromedical examiners," the Association has grown to its present strength of more than 3,500 members from about 76 countries.
The Aerospace Medical Association is the largest most-representative professional organization in the fields of aviation, space, and environmental medicine. AsMA's membership includes aerospace medicine specialists, scientists, flight nurses, physiologists, and researchers in this field. Most are with industry, the FAA, NASA, Department of Defense, and universities. Approximately 25% of the membership is international. The Association has provided its expertise to a multitude of Federal and international agencies on a broad range of issues including aviation and space medical standards, the aging pilot, and physiological stresses of flight. Through the efforts of the AsMA members, safety in flight and man's overall adaptation to adverse environments have been more nearly achieved.
The Aerospace Medical Association has kept pace with the advances in aerospace medicine by presenting scientific investigations and papers in the specialty. Through the years, a number of papers have been presented at the Annual Scientific Meeting. Papers are also published in the Association's official journal, Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine (formerly Aerospace Medicine)."
Aerospace Medical Association Homepage
Since you asked the question...
"The Aerospace Medical Association (AsMA) was founded in 1929 under the guidance of Louis H. Bauer, M.D., the first medical director of the Aeronautics Branch of the Department of Commerce (which later became the FAA). Dr. Bauer and his associates dedicated themselves and the new Association to "dissemination of information as will enhance the accuracy of their specialized art...thereby affording a greater guarantee of safety to the public and the pilot, alike; and to cooperate... in furthering the progress of aeronautics in the United States." From the 1929 organizational meeting of 29 "aeromedical examiners," the Association has grown to its present strength of more than 3,500 members from about 76 countries.
The Aerospace Medical Association is the largest most-representative professional organization in the fields of aviation, space, and environmental medicine. AsMA's membership includes aerospace medicine specialists, scientists, flight nurses, physiologists, and researchers in this field. Most are with industry, the FAA, NASA, Department of Defense, and universities. Approximately 25% of the membership is international. The Association has provided its expertise to a multitude of Federal and international agencies on a broad range of issues including aviation and space medical standards, the aging pilot, and physiological stresses of flight. Through the efforts of the AsMA members, safety in flight and man's overall adaptation to adverse environments have been more nearly achieved.
The Aerospace Medical Association has kept pace with the advances in aerospace medicine by presenting scientific investigations and papers in the specialty. Through the years, a number of papers have been presented at the Annual Scientific Meeting. Papers are also published in the Association's official journal, Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine (formerly Aerospace Medicine)."
Aerospace Medical Association Homepage
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No chance of DVT on some airlines. The pax we carry seem to spend most of their time strolling aimlessly around the cabin - particularly while the meal service is going on or the seat belt sign is illuminated!
