***WARNING; Women Empowering Women and other thieving pyramid scams!***
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***WARNING; Women Empowering Women and other thieving pyramid scams!***
Since the recent thread advertising a pyramid scheme appeared on here, much debate has gone on behind the scenes at PPRuNe. This problem is MUCH bigger than any of us imagined, so I'm restarting this topic to get some debate going on the subject, and to act as a warning to those tempted by the "get-rich-quick" promises.
One of the nastiest schemes in current circulation is the "Women Empowering Women" pyramid. I have heard this scam originated on the Isle of Wight, and rapidly spread over there and Hampshire, and warnings are being broadcast regularly on Hampshire radio. It has also surfaced in Scotland, so tracing the origins are difficult... the effects however are the same, the vast majority of people lose money. Lots of it.
Now it seems to have infiltrated our airlines, and is being targeted at new entrant female cabin crew. This scheme uses all the 'right" words, is very well presented and glossy with an information pack and a target market of young, independent women.
*****It is nothing more than a cynical rip-off, designed not to empower anyone, but to relieve people of their money. *****
I copy below some of the debate from the admin forum, and the original thread. Please feel free to contribute, I have heard stories of new-entrants maxing out their credit cards and going seriously into debt... the most worrying occurence is that these scams are apparently being spread about by Cabin Crew management in some airlines, people who should have the welfare of their crew at heart. Disgusting.
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Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 04 July 2001).]
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
One of the nastiest schemes in current circulation is the "Women Empowering Women" pyramid. I have heard this scam originated on the Isle of Wight, and rapidly spread over there and Hampshire, and warnings are being broadcast regularly on Hampshire radio. It has also surfaced in Scotland, so tracing the origins are difficult... the effects however are the same, the vast majority of people lose money. Lots of it.
Now it seems to have infiltrated our airlines, and is being targeted at new entrant female cabin crew. This scheme uses all the 'right" words, is very well presented and glossy with an information pack and a target market of young, independent women.
*****It is nothing more than a cynical rip-off, designed not to empower anyone, but to relieve people of their money. *****
I copy below some of the debate from the admin forum, and the original thread. Please feel free to contribute, I have heard stories of new-entrants maxing out their credit cards and going seriously into debt... the most worrying occurence is that these scams are apparently being spread about by Cabin Crew management in some airlines, people who should have the welfare of their crew at heart. Disgusting.
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Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 04 July 2001).]
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
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Here's some of the debate as it stands;
We'd like as much input as possible to this, please. By contributing to this thread and therefore increasing awareness of this problem in it's many disguises, you could be preventing a friend or colleague from being cynically fleeced.
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Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 04 July 2001).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">From Flying Clea;
This get rich quick scheme has been splashed across the tabloids in scottish papers.To be honest with you where is the money originally comming from to start these schemes.
If anyone can remember the government in albania told people to put their savings into a similar scheme in their country. The people lost their life saving and started a peoples revolution against the government.
This is also banned in four states in the USA as the money was being laundered.
Where and how was this scheme originating from in this country. Do people think that this was someone who said i'm honest and i will make alot of people rich with my money.
</font>
This get rich quick scheme has been splashed across the tabloids in scottish papers.To be honest with you where is the money originally comming from to start these schemes.
If anyone can remember the government in albania told people to put their savings into a similar scheme in their country. The people lost their life saving and started a peoples revolution against the government.
This is also banned in four states in the USA as the money was being laundered.
Where and how was this scheme originating from in this country. Do people think that this was someone who said i'm honest and i will make alot of people rich with my money.
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">From Minimum Rest;
Same thing has been going on at Britannia, only on a smaller scale. You put a hundred quid in then when you get to the top of the so called pyramid you get six times your money. The people who joined first were ok but as recruitment slows up it takes longer and longer to get your cash back. A bit risky! </font>
Same thing has been going on at Britannia, only on a smaller scale. You put a hundred quid in then when you get to the top of the so called pyramid you get six times your money. The people who joined first were ok but as recruitment slows up it takes longer and longer to get your cash back. A bit risky! </font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">From the Admin Forum;
Pyramid schemes do not produce a product or service for sale. The only money in the pot is the money the players themselves put in. So, the only way anyone can get more out than they put in is to take it away from someone else. The only way cash enters the scheme is from new recruits, the people at the bottom of the pyramid.
As long as the pyramid continues to grow, then the money continues to flow. But no pyramid can grow forever, and when it finally collapses, as it inevitably must, then the very large majority of people who at or near the bottom are left holding the bag, wondering where their money went. A few in the middle of the scheme get back their initial investment, and the very few at the top make a profit -- creating a few winners and many, many losers. That is precisely why pyramid schemes are illegal.
Whoever started the "buy a heart" scam is - to put it bluntly - stealing money from your cabin crew. And should go to gaol.</font>
Pyramid schemes do not produce a product or service for sale. The only money in the pot is the money the players themselves put in. So, the only way anyone can get more out than they put in is to take it away from someone else. The only way cash enters the scheme is from new recruits, the people at the bottom of the pyramid.
As long as the pyramid continues to grow, then the money continues to flow. But no pyramid can grow forever, and when it finally collapses, as it inevitably must, then the very large majority of people who at or near the bottom are left holding the bag, wondering where their money went. A few in the middle of the scheme get back their initial investment, and the very few at the top make a profit -- creating a few winners and many, many losers. That is precisely why pyramid schemes are illegal.
Whoever started the "buy a heart" scam is - to put it bluntly - stealing money from your cabin crew. And should go to gaol.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">From the Admin Forum;
I know for a fact that it was some middle management in our company that started it amongst the cabin crew. It is being marketed as a 'thing' run by women for women and that therefore the 'sisters' won't rip each other off. Not likely?</font>
I know for a fact that it was some middle management in our company that started it amongst the cabin crew. It is being marketed as a 'thing' run by women for women and that therefore the 'sisters' won't rip each other off. Not likely?</font>
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Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 04 July 2001).]
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Oooh. This could be nasty. This went round my airline ages ago. Have to say, despite negative comments form some people, I had a go at it and made a lot of money, then reinvested for my family and made plenty for them too. Good experience for all I knew in it. Thought it had died a death but apparently not as it would seem here. At the end of the day, as I understood it, yeah, it's a risk, but that was made pretty clear to me. Anyone with any common sense could see that. To put your life savings into anything slightly riskly is unwise to say the least isn't it? Let people make up their own minds. I would say that if there are any investors in it today, this kind of publicity is a sure way for them to lose out.
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That's the way it goes, B2P, some people make a profit, a few more break even, and an awful lot lose out. What to do, then, keep quiet so that more people can be sucked in just to support those already there?
I do appreciate your point however, and very well put. Pyramid schemes always end up in tears however; maybe it didn't for you, but it will have done for somone else in your scheme.
£6
I do appreciate your point however, and very well put. Pyramid schemes always end up in tears however; maybe it didn't for you, but it will have done for somone else in your scheme.
£6
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Well isn't that diplomatic! Mr 'sick' squid removed my posting re this subject the other day saying it is against guidelines to promote (be positive) about such a scheme. Now he has decided it is o.k. to talk about it - but I guess only if you are negative. Well the FACT is that many many people have made money out of this . I have met them, my own friends, and know this to be the truth. As an adult you have to make a decision on whether you feel it will work for you or not. Sure there is no guarantee of making lots of money, sure it is a calculated risk, but what investments are 100% ? And Sick Squid your moderation is , in my opinion, doubtful to say the least.
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For the first few weeks of the summer every time I went into the crewroom someone was pushing a bit of paper under my nose asking me to join. Knowing how dodgy it all sounded and knowing people outside work who had fallen for the scam and lost their money I steadfastly refused, and advised anyone else who was interested not to take part. Now a couple of months on the whole thing has dried up in the airline. A lot of crew have lost their money, and people have said they wished they had listened to me in the first place.
Bringing something like this into the workplace is in my opinion about the most stupid thing anyone could do. Regardless of whether anyone has given the hard sell, or whether people have handed money over of their own free will, in the end it will only cause bad feeling amongst the crew (it caused me bad feeling when I began losing it with people who would not take no for an answer!). I know I would not be happy with the person I handed my hard earned cash over to if weeks later I realised that I'd lost it for good. We all have to work together as a team and we should be looking out for our colleagues instead of ripping them off.
I'm very pleased to read this thread and find out that at last someone else sees this for what it really is. It's been lonely out there all this time!
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Well you can all have your opinions and that's fair enough but I got my money with no real problems. I think it is a personal decision and up to the individual to decide. Agree with wideaisle though. This subject could have been handled better by the mod. He/she should not show bias on a subject and it seems this was done here. Also if any of you do have friends who are in schemes then you are really helping to lose their money with the comments you make although I agree everyone has a right to their views.
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Sick Squid showed bias on this because it is nothing more than a cynical scheme by those who start it to defraud gullible, desperate or greedy folks. 
To reiterate something said earlier in this thread : The only money in the pot is the money the players themselves put in. So, the only way anyone can get more out than they put in is to take it away from someone else. The only way cash enters the scheme is from new recruits, the people at the bottom of the pyramid.
In other words, no money is generated. It is simply taken away from those who join later.
---PPRuNe Dispatcher
To reiterate something said earlier in this thread : The only money in the pot is the money the players themselves put in. So, the only way anyone can get more out than they put in is to take it away from someone else. The only way cash enters the scheme is from new recruits, the people at the bottom of the pyramid.
In other words, no money is generated. It is simply taken away from those who join later.
---PPRuNe Dispatcher
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Not Again,
I know you can make money and lose your money in this get rich scheme but look at the down side of it all.
What if you get your familly involved because they trust and believe that you have a very good chance of making a few quid after the info you gave them. They put in a lot of money and it all goes pear shape .They dont just lose their well earned cash but you could also lose them as well.
P.S this could go for your very close friends as well.
I know you can make money and lose your money in this get rich scheme but look at the down side of it all.
What if you get your familly involved because they trust and believe that you have a very good chance of making a few quid after the info you gave them. They put in a lot of money and it all goes pear shape .They dont just lose their well earned cash but you could also lose them as well.
P.S this could go for your very close friends as well.
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So Pants Off,
What your saying is we shouldn't do what we can prevent further layers of the pyramid being recruited to this scam so as to protect the ones already in it.
Forget it. We watched the entire enconomy of Albania fall to a similar scheme. Try a few simple sums to see the remarkably few layers of the pyramid it takes for half the nation to be paying each other. It's a sucker scheme that works for only the first few layers. It gets restarted repeatedly because only the first few players/layers ever get the return. The number of losers always exceed the winners. It's simple maths.
We will not stand idly by letting more be dragged in. Those already up to their necks realise they have to recruit more or lose everything. They will suggest they've already got their money even when they have not.
The policy decided was to return the thread to allow discussion. I happen to think the decision originally taken by the moderator was correct. Those already trapped in the scheme are desperate for publicity, any publicity to draw the mathematically required losers into the scam.
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Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 06 July 2001).]
What your saying is we shouldn't do what we can prevent further layers of the pyramid being recruited to this scam so as to protect the ones already in it.
Forget it. We watched the entire enconomy of Albania fall to a similar scheme. Try a few simple sums to see the remarkably few layers of the pyramid it takes for half the nation to be paying each other. It's a sucker scheme that works for only the first few layers. It gets restarted repeatedly because only the first few players/layers ever get the return. The number of losers always exceed the winners. It's simple maths.
We will not stand idly by letting more be dragged in. Those already up to their necks realise they have to recruit more or lose everything. They will suggest they've already got their money even when they have not.
The policy decided was to return the thread to allow discussion. I happen to think the decision originally taken by the moderator was correct. Those already trapped in the scheme are desperate for publicity, any publicity to draw the mathematically required losers into the scam.
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Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 06 July 2001).]
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Pants off, wide aisle, and B2P - it is not good enough to say "I tried this and it was OK for me".
You might as well say "I tried loan sharking and it was okay for me".
Any scheme that aims to make money effectively by defrauding and conning others is, IMO, a disgrace.
I applaud £6 in removing these posts and making the above warning.
You might as well say "I tried loan sharking and it was okay for me".
Any scheme that aims to make money effectively by defrauding and conning others is, IMO, a disgrace.
I applaud £6 in removing these posts and making the above warning.
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I would have done what £6 did. I think these scams are evil. They are also ILLEGAL
But no matter, you chose to do what you did because it would, and has, given you some easy money. Fine! Now how about this? How do you feel that YOU HAVE KNOWINGLY TAKEN FROM ANOTHER PERSON HIS HARD EARNED CASH? Feels good does it? Well you enjoy it and I will briefly tell you what the END result is for the many who are not in the first layers of the pyramid scam. They go broke! They max out a credit card! They even re-mortgage their home. Or worse, they mortgage it after it was fully paid up!
I had a good friend ABZ, a good pilot and a nice guy with 2 daughters and a great wife. He got invited to one of these closed door meetings and was hooked. I couldn't dissaude him, the seed was sown. Without telling his wife, he mortgaged the house to raise £75,000 on the promise that he would get £150,000. But he never did - the pyramid collapsed. The 'investors', who are pivotal to anyone receiving THEIR chunk of the pot, dried up and the top layers lost all their money while the bottom layers got more money - from the likes of my friend.
Then this happened. He couldn't fly. He dare not. He became depressed. He went to see an FME who pulled his licence "because he was a danger to himself". He then told his wife. She left him. He started drinking. Then exactly 4 months after he made "the most important decision of his life" he killed himself! Great story eh?
That is what these scams do. They create widows and destroy lives.
Remember the first thing I mentioned won't you. How does it feel spending the likes of my friend's money? There are MANY people like my friend, and ALL the people who start these scams, and a few layers above them KNOWINGLY PLAN TO STEAL THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE ABOVE! When it dries up it's over! Finished! The pot's empty. What was the reason to start it in the first place? What was it's aim?
IF>>>>>>>>>>>>>that is NOT the case you tell me what it is. But I tell you, there is NO other answer. And don't forget is a criminal offence now - and judges do not like them! It's fraud.
They are a disgusting ruse and hurt many people. My advice is to steer clear of them and inform the police.
edited for a few typos while I was flaming!
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Pop (edited 06 July 2001).]
But no matter, you chose to do what you did because it would, and has, given you some easy money. Fine! Now how about this? How do you feel that YOU HAVE KNOWINGLY TAKEN FROM ANOTHER PERSON HIS HARD EARNED CASH? Feels good does it? Well you enjoy it and I will briefly tell you what the END result is for the many who are not in the first layers of the pyramid scam. They go broke! They max out a credit card! They even re-mortgage their home. Or worse, they mortgage it after it was fully paid up!
I had a good friend ABZ, a good pilot and a nice guy with 2 daughters and a great wife. He got invited to one of these closed door meetings and was hooked. I couldn't dissaude him, the seed was sown. Without telling his wife, he mortgaged the house to raise £75,000 on the promise that he would get £150,000. But he never did - the pyramid collapsed. The 'investors', who are pivotal to anyone receiving THEIR chunk of the pot, dried up and the top layers lost all their money while the bottom layers got more money - from the likes of my friend.
Then this happened. He couldn't fly. He dare not. He became depressed. He went to see an FME who pulled his licence "because he was a danger to himself". He then told his wife. She left him. He started drinking. Then exactly 4 months after he made "the most important decision of his life" he killed himself! Great story eh?
That is what these scams do. They create widows and destroy lives.
Remember the first thing I mentioned won't you. How does it feel spending the likes of my friend's money? There are MANY people like my friend, and ALL the people who start these scams, and a few layers above them KNOWINGLY PLAN TO STEAL THE MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE ABOVE! When it dries up it's over! Finished! The pot's empty. What was the reason to start it in the first place? What was it's aim?
IF>>>>>>>>>>>>>that is NOT the case you tell me what it is. But I tell you, there is NO other answer. And don't forget is a criminal offence now - and judges do not like them! It's fraud.
They are a disgusting ruse and hurt many people. My advice is to steer clear of them and inform the police.
edited for a few typos while I was flaming!
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Pop (edited 06 July 2001).]
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Ahh. A topic close to my heart. I'm not ashamed to say that I've been involved in WEW and have found it to be an extremely good investment, not only for myself, but for my friends and family.
At the end of the day, people are all adults and are able to judge for ourselves whether to invest or not to invest. Therefore, calling it a 'scam' is a bit unfair. If anyone saw GMTV this morning, there were lots of women phoning in to support it. One of the main contributing factors towards the failure of this type of thing is people giving it bad press.
And one more thing, wideaisle is correct in saying that the way this topic has been handled is unfair and biased. The moderators should not be inviting negative comments only. To do so, is not creating an open forum.
At the end of the day, people are all adults and are able to judge for ourselves whether to invest or not to invest. Therefore, calling it a 'scam' is a bit unfair. If anyone saw GMTV this morning, there were lots of women phoning in to support it. One of the main contributing factors towards the failure of this type of thing is people giving it bad press.
And one more thing, wideaisle is correct in saying that the way this topic has been handled is unfair and biased. The moderators should not be inviting negative comments only. To do so, is not creating an open forum.
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Two lovely descriptions of how to lose all your money!
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~btcarrol...c/pyramid.html
http://www.impulse.net/~thebob/Pyramid.html
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~btcarrol...c/pyramid.html
http://www.impulse.net/~thebob/Pyramid.html
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Want to know more?
Go to the www.google.com search engine.
Search for the words
Women Empowering Women Scam
Then browse through the 800+ websites which tell you how to lose your money.
Go to the www.google.com search engine.
Search for the words
Women Empowering Women Scam
Then browse through the 800+ websites which tell you how to lose your money.
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How open do you want the forum for God's sake?
Are you not missing the point here. As I see it, it has been explained that it is illegal. It has to be if there NO investment opportunity. Was there one? If there was it would be as well to say what it is. If there wasn't it's a scam!
Investment is where you are issued with shares in a bone fide company. Is this such a company? Have you got issued shares and what is the share capital? If none, it's a scam.
It's got scam written all over it, and it is more than a little naive to blame the press for any downfall. It save's more poor souls from losing there money to the scammers who started it.
Btw. I saw the GMTV thing yesterday and 'lots' of women called in. What was that 10, 20 or what? This thread is an endeavour to save 100's of people from being parted from their money - not for those who have already scammed theirs at the expense of others. If you haven't, and you can prove it, I will openly apologise - but you will have to show proof of investment, properly conducted within the terms required.
Nice big open forum this. You can open a strong debate that people can enter without fear.
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Just thought I'd add this story to the thread:
My cousin and his girlfriend, after just getting their first mortgage, went into one of these pyramid schemes recently. They paid £3k expecting to get £21k back.
They were cautious at first and were advised against it by myself and others but the real clincher was when a guy who was 'receiving' went round their house and dumped his £21k on their living room floor and said: "Do you wanna have this too?". They leaped into it with glee.
Anyway, the pyramid scheme collapsed around their deaf ears a couple of weeks after entering. They have got £1k of their £3k 'investment' back.
Good job it wasn't a hefty scheme like the one PPRuNe Pop described. Sorry to hear about your friend.
VFE.
[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 06 July 2001).]
My cousin and his girlfriend, after just getting their first mortgage, went into one of these pyramid schemes recently. They paid £3k expecting to get £21k back.
They were cautious at first and were advised against it by myself and others but the real clincher was when a guy who was 'receiving' went round their house and dumped his £21k on their living room floor and said: "Do you wanna have this too?". They leaped into it with glee.
Anyway, the pyramid scheme collapsed around their deaf ears a couple of weeks after entering. They have got £1k of their £3k 'investment' back.
Good job it wasn't a hefty scheme like the one PPRuNe Pop described. Sorry to hear about your friend.
VFE.
[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 06 July 2001).]
Chief PPRuNe Pilot
I spoke to a #1 who has invested her 3k and now several weeks later she is still waiting to become rich. She believes in the 'scheme' (read scam) because the lower echelon cabin crew manager who started it in my company has made over 100k, allegedly!
It is being aimed at 'mathematically challenged' women who cannot see further than the glossy brochures. There is absolutely no investment or product being produced from this. Only money being put in and then being taken out again. The maths are basic... if more is being taken out than is put in then someone will lose out and history repeats itself again and again, the majority lose out.
Anyone who is happy at receiving a lot of money from this scam is obviously very selfish as they do not care about the people who they may not know several 'layers' beneath them! Yes they may belive in it and they may be lucky because they were in the scam early on but they have the morals of a common thief and are as welcome as one in the home of one of the people who lose out.
Whichever way you look at it, just because a few of you have made a lot of money from it there will be an exponentially larger number of individuals who will have lost out. I am sure that those who have some common sense will understand.
The cabin crew person who I was talking to looked at the article in the newspaper I was reading about the scam when I asked her if she knew about it and had invested in it and said to me "That's not the same as the scheme I'm in. In the one I'm in the pyramid is the other way round!" Duh!
Proves to me that there will always be enough gullible people to be taken for a ride by those clever and corrupt enough to get in quick. The people who are moaning about us having a go at this scam and crying foul are more than likely either the ones who are in at the beginning of this scheme or else losers living in hope that their payout will arrive eventually.
There is no way that I will allow this forum to be used to promote an illegal scam such as the WEW scheme. If you still pay into one then you must be too stupid to remain on this forum. If you don't like it then use your payout to buy your own forum and post there.
It is being aimed at 'mathematically challenged' women who cannot see further than the glossy brochures. There is absolutely no investment or product being produced from this. Only money being put in and then being taken out again. The maths are basic... if more is being taken out than is put in then someone will lose out and history repeats itself again and again, the majority lose out.
Anyone who is happy at receiving a lot of money from this scam is obviously very selfish as they do not care about the people who they may not know several 'layers' beneath them! Yes they may belive in it and they may be lucky because they were in the scam early on but they have the morals of a common thief and are as welcome as one in the home of one of the people who lose out.
Whichever way you look at it, just because a few of you have made a lot of money from it there will be an exponentially larger number of individuals who will have lost out. I am sure that those who have some common sense will understand.
The cabin crew person who I was talking to looked at the article in the newspaper I was reading about the scam when I asked her if she knew about it and had invested in it and said to me "That's not the same as the scheme I'm in. In the one I'm in the pyramid is the other way round!" Duh!
Proves to me that there will always be enough gullible people to be taken for a ride by those clever and corrupt enough to get in quick. The people who are moaning about us having a go at this scam and crying foul are more than likely either the ones who are in at the beginning of this scheme or else losers living in hope that their payout will arrive eventually.
There is no way that I will allow this forum to be used to promote an illegal scam such as the WEW scheme. If you still pay into one then you must be too stupid to remain on this forum. If you don't like it then use your payout to buy your own forum and post there.
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Danny, I'd like to make a comment which does not promote the scheme you talk about. In fact it's got nothing to do with that. I have to say, I'm SHOCKED at your sexist and nasty comments. There are only 3 or 4 old comments here putting their VIEWS forward (isn't that what a forum is for?) so it would suggest that forum users have got the message LOAD AND CLEAR! I've never heard of it. I haven't seen it on the news. I work for a LHR based airline and have lots friends in other airlines who've never heard of it either. You've made your point in the most HORRID way, insulting as many women as you possibly can, proving that you can't for one minute adapt other peoples views objectively without totally insulting them. Call yourself a moderator eh? 'DUH'
[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: The Black Baron ]
[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: The Black Baron ]
[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: The Black Baron ]
[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: The Black Baron ]