British Airways - Crew Discussions II
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Londonphilou,
I was going to go down the road of suggesting you get off that high horse of your's or at least something like that but it just wouldn't work would it? It just seems whatever any of we crew say to you is either not good enough or incorrect.
If you are that sensitive do you really think this is the job for you after all.....????
Also, surely your 'friend' within BA will have told you that we survive on supposition and gossip? It's the mainstay of any CC community.....
newbagr - please tell me, is it me or is it a waste of time advising some people?
xxxxxxxxx
I was going to go down the road of suggesting you get off that high horse of your's or at least something like that but it just wouldn't work would it? It just seems whatever any of we crew say to you is either not good enough or incorrect.
If you are that sensitive do you really think this is the job for you after all.....????
Also, surely your 'friend' within BA will have told you that we survive on supposition and gossip? It's the mainstay of any CC community.....newbagr - please tell me, is it me or is it a waste of time advising some people?
xxxxxxxxx
Last edited by lhrtolgw; 27th Sep 2007 at 03:48.
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Thanks LHRTOLGW for your explanation!
I hope you don't mind if I still dig in....
"..... however NSP brings with it a formal, binding agreement which is something that LGW people have been awaiting for many years. "
In what way the agreement will become binding? To my very limited understanding an agreement or else become binding when, if not honoured, it contravienes the low. If it deoesn't both parties could change their minds at any time whithout any "legal" consequences but only with a grat deal of disappointment etc.
Have the terms of this agreement been fully discussed and agreed yet?
If they have what are the outlines? If they havent't when will they be?
Sorry if I may sound pedantic in my questions but I rather form a picture from facts rather than opinions (which btw can also be welcome expecially if they are asked).
maybe if there was a Unionn Rep. on this forum could tell us some more...
Just a curiosity:
"BA are allowed to do this as they gained the agreement of the unions to do this when they first decided to introduce mixed flying. As a result, LGW has seen the introduction of an hourly rate as opposed to the more favourable allowance system in place at LHR."
Did LGW crew supported the unions at that time? In other words who did the unions reppresent at that time?
I hope you don't mind if I still dig in....
"..... however NSP brings with it a formal, binding agreement which is something that LGW people have been awaiting for many years. "
In what way the agreement will become binding? To my very limited understanding an agreement or else become binding when, if not honoured, it contravienes the low. If it deoesn't both parties could change their minds at any time whithout any "legal" consequences but only with a grat deal of disappointment etc.
Have the terms of this agreement been fully discussed and agreed yet?
If they have what are the outlines? If they havent't when will they be?
Sorry if I may sound pedantic in my questions but I rather form a picture from facts rather than opinions (which btw can also be welcome expecially if they are asked).
maybe if there was a Unionn Rep. on this forum could tell us some more...
Just a curiosity:
"BA are allowed to do this as they gained the agreement of the unions to do this when they first decided to introduce mixed flying. As a result, LGW has seen the introduction of an hourly rate as opposed to the more favourable allowance system in place at LHR."
Did LGW crew supported the unions at that time? In other words who did the unions reppresent at that time?
Last edited by kikko; 27th Sep 2007 at 08:34.
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xxxxx
I was not aiming only at you lhrtolgw...I was talking in general.
Thanks for all your advice. But to say we are already screwed is not what I would call an advice, more like an insult!
Best to leave it as it is and wait until the bosses make their decision. Good luck with your transfer.
Thanks for all your advice. But to say we are already screwed is not what I would call an advice, more like an insult!
Best to leave it as it is and wait until the bosses make their decision. Good luck with your transfer.
Last edited by Londonphilou; 27th Sep 2007 at 09:06.
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Hi Lhrtolgw!
Goddess - I really, really hope they get you fixed up asap. I had not idea you were one of those awaiting redeployment. I bet you're dying to get where you need to be! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Thanx for keeping your fingers crossed.
By the way the NSP info is very interesting. I hope that all at LGW finally get the equal opportunity they deserve to move between fleets. After all we all work for the same company.
As for external applicants in the LHREF hold pool, I still say hang in there and never give up hope. Think positive.
All the best to all.
DAWN
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Kikko, the actual ins and outs of the NSP are very difficult to explain in a public forum such as this. You are probably better off speaking to a union rep if you need absolute clarification. As far as I know it's an agreement that dates back to 1974, when BOAC was merged with BEA. Further mergers have since been taken into account, including those of British Caledonian and British Airtours.
I've spent some time in the BASSA office over the years. The NSP manuals are huge, thick volumes of legal writing which would take forever to explain. The NSP is still legally binding and you see plenty of evidence of this in the day to day runnings of the airline.
When mixed flying was introduced at LGW it was seen as a win-win situation for all. EFLGW crew were already on an hourly rate (inherited from the Dan Air merger) operating short haul routes. They had already become accustomed to a new bidding system and for them, mixed flying meant an opportunity to fly long haul routes. Having the bidding system, they were able to have control over their rosters. They were also told that the new "Single Fleet" would be incorporated into the NSP and they would be given the chance to tranfer fleets after two years.
WW LGW crews were all transfered to LHR, which is something that the majority of crew wanted. This is how Single Fleet was allowed to be created and arguably the fairest way to incorporate LGW into the NSP.
I've spent some time in the BASSA office over the years. The NSP manuals are huge, thick volumes of legal writing which would take forever to explain. The NSP is still legally binding and you see plenty of evidence of this in the day to day runnings of the airline.
When mixed flying was introduced at LGW it was seen as a win-win situation for all. EFLGW crew were already on an hourly rate (inherited from the Dan Air merger) operating short haul routes. They had already become accustomed to a new bidding system and for them, mixed flying meant an opportunity to fly long haul routes. Having the bidding system, they were able to have control over their rosters. They were also told that the new "Single Fleet" would be incorporated into the NSP and they would be given the chance to tranfer fleets after two years.
WW LGW crews were all transfered to LHR, which is something that the majority of crew wanted. This is how Single Fleet was allowed to be created and arguably the fairest way to incorporate LGW into the NSP.
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Thanks VS!
Now I understand why the unions agreed:
they offered all BA mainline LGW WW crew to go to LHR and to mantain their contracts (and as you said the majority did) whilst in the meantime they offered Eurogatwick the possibility of doing long haul and to be part of the NSP.
In that case the unions didn't have much more to negotiate obviously.
So would it be nearly true saying that LGW SF is a "glorified"Eurogatwick? And the fact that is now "mainline" it only applies to the possibility of easier (?) transfers whilst maintaining the seniority and rank?
When a purser transfers from LGW to LHR will he /she automatically receive same salary, contract and condiotions of LHR purser with same seniority?
Now I understand why the unions agreed:
they offered all BA mainline LGW WW crew to go to LHR and to mantain their contracts (and as you said the majority did) whilst in the meantime they offered Eurogatwick the possibility of doing long haul and to be part of the NSP.
In that case the unions didn't have much more to negotiate obviously.
So would it be nearly true saying that LGW SF is a "glorified"Eurogatwick? And the fact that is now "mainline" it only applies to the possibility of easier (?) transfers whilst maintaining the seniority and rank?
When a purser transfers from LGW to LHR will he /she automatically receive same salary, contract and condiotions of LHR purser with same seniority?
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That right, Kikko.
However....Purser vacancies at LHR (WW and EF) come up so rarely, Pursers at LGW who will have the RIGHT to transfer in rank, will realistically achieve a transfer after at least 10-15 years. Remember, there are a lot of very senior pursers at LGW who've been there since Dan Air and weren't affected by the 55 retirement age that was only recently abolished from mainline.
This will mean either LGW for life (so to speak) and working your way through the ranks OR transferring to LHR as main crew as soon as you can. One thing to note, under NSP, you CAN NOT downgrade to achieve a transfer, so the choices you make in the first few years at LGW will impact your career path.
Makes your head hurt, doesn't it.....lol
However....Purser vacancies at LHR (WW and EF) come up so rarely, Pursers at LGW who will have the RIGHT to transfer in rank, will realistically achieve a transfer after at least 10-15 years. Remember, there are a lot of very senior pursers at LGW who've been there since Dan Air and weren't affected by the 55 retirement age that was only recently abolished from mainline.
This will mean either LGW for life (so to speak) and working your way through the ranks OR transferring to LHR as main crew as soon as you can. One thing to note, under NSP, you CAN NOT downgrade to achieve a transfer, so the choices you make in the first few years at LGW will impact your career path.
Makes your head hurt, doesn't it.....lol
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VS you are far more eloquent and informed than I.
Goddess - I can appreciate the feeling of being in limbo but just try to look at this as the calm before the storm. You'll soon be rushing around FCO/ARN/GVA/IST and wherever else like crazy enjoying all those sights and sounds; new colleagues; having a laugh; shopping like never before....the list goes on. I am soooo excited for you - I'm sure it'll happen very, very soon!
Goddess - I can appreciate the feeling of being in limbo but just try to look at this as the calm before the storm. You'll soon be rushing around FCO/ARN/GVA/IST and wherever else like crazy enjoying all those sights and sounds; new colleagues; having a laugh; shopping like never before....the list goes on. I am soooo excited for you - I'm sure it'll happen very, very soon!
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Hallo everbody
After having well read what all of you have said (all very interesting)
I decided to call BA (as LHRTOLGW suggested).
I have asked about loosing the opportunity of EF course placement becouse of BA won't be recruiting externally for LHR anymore in the not too distant future.
I must say I have been much reassured that this is not going to happen.
Now who to believe?....Does recruitment knows better or not?....
..or they just say things for the sake of it?...Who to trust? Could they say somtehing today and something completely different tomorrow?.......
Is BA truly like a flag in the wind?.....
After having well read what all of you have said (all very interesting)
I decided to call BA (as LHRTOLGW suggested).
I have asked about loosing the opportunity of EF course placement becouse of BA won't be recruiting externally for LHR anymore in the not too distant future.
I must say I have been much reassured that this is not going to happen.
Now who to believe?....Does recruitment knows better or not?....
..or they just say things for the sake of it?...Who to trust? Could they say somtehing today and something completely different tomorrow?.......Is BA truly like a flag in the wind?.....
Last edited by Melany; 27th Sep 2007 at 15:29.
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Melany
I know a couple of people who have rang too and being told the same thing. I was also being reassured but by email when I wrote to them but I have not called. Lets hope its true but we will never know until it happens.
Ams-lhr ----- Congratulations --------
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Enjoy your first flight as Air Cabin Crew AMS-LHR
Was there a reason why the person was asked to leave ?
SEP/FIRST AID EXAMS etc .. do please tell, As a warning to the rest of us.
Was there a reason why the person was asked to leave ?
SEP/FIRST AID EXAMS etc .. do please tell, As a warning to the rest of us.
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Melany,
It's not a question of whom to trust. It's more a question of there is alot of things going on in the background and NO ONE can or are able to give you a definitive answer.
Just a couple of months ago crew at LGW were told that there would be no more direct entry recruitment into LHR and right after that they recruited 154 direct into LHR. Crew on temp contracts were told that it would be a temp contract only and then they were given permanent contract at LGW.
At the end of the day people, recruitment, crew, wannabees can tell you what they want, you can believe what you want but until it's in writing in black and white it's not certain (and even then things can change)
As so many of our managers like too say you'll just have to wait and see.
It's not a question of whom to trust. It's more a question of there is alot of things going on in the background and NO ONE can or are able to give you a definitive answer.
Just a couple of months ago crew at LGW were told that there would be no more direct entry recruitment into LHR and right after that they recruited 154 direct into LHR. Crew on temp contracts were told that it would be a temp contract only and then they were given permanent contract at LGW.
At the end of the day people, recruitment, crew, wannabees can tell you what they want, you can believe what you want but until it's in writing in black and white it's not certain (and even then things can change)
As so many of our managers like too say you'll just have to wait and see.
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Hi
The figure of 154 sounds like the total redeployment figure from the Regions ? BA Staff who were redeployed were part of the Ground NSP, and also had certain rights which stem back to their orginal contracts, that may explain why they had permanent contracts.
BA LHR WW offered redeploys temp contracts, as to keep in line with NSP agreements. I am sure they will be offered permanency on LH, and if not Short Haul on Eurofleet at the end of their 11 month contracts. ( BA offered the secondments to resolve a serve shortage of crew in world wide.)
Eurofleet is a good fleet ! LHR - AMS you will be very happy xxx
Ta
Twrecks
The figure of 154 sounds like the total redeployment figure from the Regions ? BA Staff who were redeployed were part of the Ground NSP, and also had certain rights which stem back to their orginal contracts, that may explain why they had permanent contracts.
BA LHR WW offered redeploys temp contracts, as to keep in line with NSP agreements. I am sure they will be offered permanency on LH, and if not Short Haul on Eurofleet at the end of their 11 month contracts. ( BA offered the secondments to resolve a serve shortage of crew in world wide.)
Eurofleet is a good fleet ! LHR - AMS you will be very happy xxx
Ta
Twrecks
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Hi Twrecks!
I am one of the re-deployed BA staff not in the UK by the way and we were offered the LHRWW temp contracts or LHREF perm contracts at the assessment, however we were very clearly told that if we chose the LHRWW temp contract we could be terminated at the end of it with no guarantee of further employement with the company.
We were never offered this alternative as secondment. So when you say Ba offered the secondments to cover shortage of crew in world wide, could you please clarify where you get this info from?
If your info were correct it could cause a lot of anxiety for the BA re-deployed staff who have chosen LHREF permanent and are still in the hold pool.
Thanx.
DAWN
We were never offered this alternative as secondment. So when you say Ba offered the secondments to cover shortage of crew in world wide, could you please clarify where you get this info from?
If your info were correct it could cause a lot of anxiety for the BA re-deployed staff who have chosen LHREF permanent and are still in the hold pool.
Thanx.
DAWN
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Dawn
As you know I am re-deployed ground staff going LHRWW on temp 11 month contract,at the end of this I will be in the same boat I was before I decided to try for the temp contract......... either way BA have always said they will have a position for me if I want one (where that is could be/ aand what position is anyones guess) what I am trying to say is as current BA staff awaiting LHREF you will get there in the end its just a case of waiting......
I think that makes sense?????
I think that makes sense?????