Sitting next to disabled pax
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Sitting next to disabled pax
Would be interested in your thoughts.
I am a FQTV and earlier this week boarded a CRJ of a European carrier.
I was in the window seat and then a party of 3 filled the rest of the row.
in A + C it appeared to be the mother and father of a mentally retarded guy of about 25-30 yrs in D, I was in F.
I was unsure of the details, as our native languages were different and my second language didn't help.
The young guy could not even stow his hand luggage under the seat in front or fasten his seat belt without my assistance.
Under the circumstances, I asked to be reseated, because
1 - we spoke different languages, so I could not communicate easily with him
2 - I had no idea how he would react if we had a mod turb encounter or similar event and his parents were across the aisle - I would probably have had to intervene and I felt very uncomfortable about this
3 - I have a close relative with similar problems (not so severe) and am aware of how unpredictable the behaviour can be
The crew seemed quite surprised that I asked to be moved and a little upset.
If this had happened on you flight what would you think?
Does this kind of situation happen frequently?
Thanks for your input.
I am a FQTV and earlier this week boarded a CRJ of a European carrier.
I was in the window seat and then a party of 3 filled the rest of the row.
in A + C it appeared to be the mother and father of a mentally retarded guy of about 25-30 yrs in D, I was in F.
I was unsure of the details, as our native languages were different and my second language didn't help.
The young guy could not even stow his hand luggage under the seat in front or fasten his seat belt without my assistance.
Under the circumstances, I asked to be reseated, because
1 - we spoke different languages, so I could not communicate easily with him
2 - I had no idea how he would react if we had a mod turb encounter or similar event and his parents were across the aisle - I would probably have had to intervene and I felt very uncomfortable about this
3 - I have a close relative with similar problems (not so severe) and am aware of how unpredictable the behaviour can be
The crew seemed quite surprised that I asked to be moved and a little upset.
If this had happened on you flight what would you think?
Does this kind of situation happen frequently?
Thanks for your input.
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Where has humanity disappeared to?? I despair I really do! 
FWIW I would have thought you were a real T***r and did my best to upgrade them to the next cabin and leave you where you were, as well as adding more passengers next to your seat.
FWIW I would have thought you were a real T***r and did my best to upgrade them to the next cabin and leave you where you were, as well as adding more passengers next to your seat.
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My 2p, I think regardless of how I felt about any 'risk' there might seem to be, I hope I would weigh that against:-
a)the unlikelehood of any in flight problem.
b)that if there was the unlikely event anything needed to be handled I would just have to deal with it at the time.
c)the poor parents probably have to deal with this kind of reaction on a daily basis, which must be heartreaking enough for them to deal with, let alone coping with their son. I'm sorry, but I would feel too awful about myself for too long afterwards in asking to move, that even if I wanted to, I wouldn't. As above, humanity.
a)the unlikelehood of any in flight problem.
b)that if there was the unlikely event anything needed to be handled I would just have to deal with it at the time.
c)the poor parents probably have to deal with this kind of reaction on a daily basis, which must be heartreaking enough for them to deal with, let alone coping with their son. I'm sorry, but I would feel too awful about myself for too long afterwards in asking to move, that even if I wanted to, I wouldn't. As above, humanity.
That's exactly what I thought. Had it been me and my wife with a disabled kid, I would like to think one of us would sit with him/her for precisely the reason the original poster bought up. If there is any issue at all - ears popping due to pressure change, slight bit of turbulence, unless the kid's a frequent flyer it could easily distress him and maybe they were just across the aisle and maybe it's only a baby plane so not that far away but surely if you need to comfort or reassure any kid let alone one with a mental disability quicker is better??
Sad or what - very appropriate name. If you can't see where F3G is coming from I despair of your common sense. I would have asked to be reseated, but I don't like the window seats anyway
Incidentally what is a FQTV?
Sad or what - very appropriate name. If you can't see where F3G is coming from I despair of your common sense. I would have asked to be reseated, but I don't like the window seats anyway
Incidentally what is a FQTV?
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To those of you who are taking swipes at the original poster, I suggest a bit of common sense is applied. At no stage did F3G make disparaging comments about the Disabled pax - he was making what I consider to be quite astute observations.
I have an aunt who has severe debilitating Cerbebral Palsy, and if I were to have her on an aircraft with me I would not even consider sitting her next to someone who was not part of our party.
Its unfortunate that in this case F3G was not able to understand what the nature of the disability was, as some conditions have far greater effects than others. For example I would never dream of seating a person with moderate or stronger Autism next to someone who was not part of the travelling party.
I daresay had there not been a language barrier this situation may not have progressed as far as it did - in any case from a safety point of view had the Disabled pax not been able to do his own seatbelt he should have been sat directly next to the carer anyway.
I have an aunt who has severe debilitating Cerbebral Palsy, and if I were to have her on an aircraft with me I would not even consider sitting her next to someone who was not part of our party.
Its unfortunate that in this case F3G was not able to understand what the nature of the disability was, as some conditions have far greater effects than others. For example I would never dream of seating a person with moderate or stronger Autism next to someone who was not part of the travelling party.
I daresay had there not been a language barrier this situation may not have progressed as far as it did - in any case from a safety point of view had the Disabled pax not been able to do his own seatbelt he should have been sat directly next to the carer anyway.
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in any case from a safety point of view had the Disabled pax not been able to do his own seatbelt he should have been sat directly next to the carer anyway.
Absolutely sinala
Absolutely sinala
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As someone with a disabled partner (physically in our case) I have to agree with F3G's sentiments.
Any incident would have involved him having to assist, with no communication available at all. It sounds harsh but it's not his problem, shouldn't be his problem, and could indeed have made matters worse. That's what the relatives are there for. One of them should have been sat with their disabled family member.
I was put in the reverse of this situation. I was asked to change seats during a long haul flight to accomodate a family with a young child, which would have meant abandoning my partner to sit with complete strangers. Bearing in mind she has a neurological condition which means her mobility is significantly impaired, plus the simple act of cutting food (especially in the confined space available in an aircraft seat) is near impossible due to weakness and muscle tremors, I refused.
The cabin crew weren't happy, but tough. This was one of those very rare occasions when passenger knew best.
Any incident would have involved him having to assist, with no communication available at all. It sounds harsh but it's not his problem, shouldn't be his problem, and could indeed have made matters worse. That's what the relatives are there for. One of them should have been sat with their disabled family member.
I was put in the reverse of this situation. I was asked to change seats during a long haul flight to accomodate a family with a young child, which would have meant abandoning my partner to sit with complete strangers. Bearing in mind she has a neurological condition which means her mobility is significantly impaired, plus the simple act of cutting food (especially in the confined space available in an aircraft seat) is near impossible due to weakness and muscle tremors, I refused.
The cabin crew weren't happy, but tough. This was one of those very rare occasions when passenger knew best.
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The part about not being able to do his own seat belt, for all he knew, that could just have been his mum or dad being over caring, like they may always have done...
No, I had to fasten his seat belt, as his carers could not reach across the aisle and he was trying to push the tongue into the wrong end of the receptacle (in fact where the belt goes in and folds under itself.)... and becoming frustrated when he couldn't manage.
He also tried to force fit his hand baggage under his own seat, and became disturbed when the life vest prevented this.
Thanks to those who made sensible comments, I do agree if we had spoken the same language I might have felt quite different.
I also don't understand why the carers sat together and left him alone - even only across an aisle. The width of an aisle can be a long way away in turbulence, with an upset person who needs close support.
And it isn't a lack of empathy, I have a close relative with mental problems and will do all to help those in the same boat, but this situation made me uncomfortable.
To those who talk glibly about upgrading to the next cabin, it was a single class aircraft and in any event I would have been in the C cabin, had there been one.
Finally FQTV = frequent traveller, relevant in this context as I spend a lot of time in airliner cabins and thus have a fair idea of what represents normal and non normal situations.
No, I had to fasten his seat belt, as his carers could not reach across the aisle and he was trying to push the tongue into the wrong end of the receptacle (in fact where the belt goes in and folds under itself.)... and becoming frustrated when he couldn't manage.
He also tried to force fit his hand baggage under his own seat, and became disturbed when the life vest prevented this.
Thanks to those who made sensible comments, I do agree if we had spoken the same language I might have felt quite different.
I also don't understand why the carers sat together and left him alone - even only across an aisle. The width of an aisle can be a long way away in turbulence, with an upset person who needs close support.
And it isn't a lack of empathy, I have a close relative with mental problems and will do all to help those in the same boat, but this situation made me uncomfortable.
To those who talk glibly about upgrading to the next cabin, it was a single class aircraft and in any event I would have been in the C cabin, had there been one.
Finally FQTV = frequent traveller, relevant in this context as I spend a lot of time in airliner cabins and thus have a fair idea of what represents normal and non normal situations.
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Final 3 Greens
in the light of what you describe, I think you acted responsibly, and that in this case you acted as a stop to a possible slip through Reason's "Swiss Cheese Model"
Someone else should have done it for you before you had to bring the matter to the attention of the crew. We don't know enough about of all the process that brough that particular passenger sitting next to you, but luckily it was you and not some other passenger with not enough experience to realise. And surely it must have been an uncomfortable situation for you, having to be very careful on what you said in order to let the crew understand your motives.
If you have the time, I suggest that you write to the airline in question about it.
in the light of what you describe, I think you acted responsibly, and that in this case you acted as a stop to a possible slip through Reason's "Swiss Cheese Model"
Someone else should have done it for you before you had to bring the matter to the attention of the crew. We don't know enough about of all the process that brough that particular passenger sitting next to you, but luckily it was you and not some other passenger with not enough experience to realise. And surely it must have been an uncomfortable situation for you, having to be very careful on what you said in order to let the crew understand your motives.
If you have the time, I suggest that you write to the airline in question about it.
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Thank you Flyblue.
In the interests of safety I will write to the airline involved, in a positive manner.
Its interesting that you quote Reason, as I also use his work in my day job, to help people learn how to evaluate risk in the project environment.
In the interests of safety I will write to the airline involved, in a positive manner.
Its interesting that you quote Reason, as I also use his work in my day job, to help people learn how to evaluate risk in the project environment.
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Interesting post.
I personally would have had no problem reseating you if and where possible.
In Aer Lingus we had a rule that special needs (be it a wheelchair passenger or other) customers must always sit in a window seat with their carer beside. The main reason for this was actually so that no able bodied person could get blocked in in the event of an emergency. However my current airline is a little more PC (without reason in my opinion) and this rule does not exist.
I personally would have had no problem reseating you if and where possible.
In Aer Lingus we had a rule that special needs (be it a wheelchair passenger or other) customers must always sit in a window seat with their carer beside. The main reason for this was actually so that no able bodied person could get blocked in in the event of an emergency. However my current airline is a little more PC (without reason in my opinion) and this rule does not exist.
Just on this topic, may I pose another question.
You sign for an unaccompanied minor who clearly has a disability (travelling with brother and sister who are able but not old enough to care for him by definition), but not being an expert in this area, you give the benefit of the doubt and take them on board and commence your briefing to them, advising all the other crew of the situation.
The UM does not respond to your briefing, nor to your calm reassuring requests to fasten his belt, or pay attention to instructions relating what to do if the masks drop/where the exits are etc. You try your hardest to find a way to communicate, nothing works. Brother and sister dont want to be a part of it and pretend hes not even there.
You raise your concerns with crew and manager, and another crew member with a bit more experience with this particular disability takes over, and gets a better response from him.
Do you accept, with you name signed below his on the paperwork, or do you speak up and offload? (keeping in mind in an emergency, you may be his only chance of survival if other crew is incapacitated or unavailable).
I'm not going to say what happened, but would be keen to hear others 'professional opinions'.
(to add complication, your airline and other local airlines have been under fire recently due to poor handling of such situations by disability organisations and the media).
You sign for an unaccompanied minor who clearly has a disability (travelling with brother and sister who are able but not old enough to care for him by definition), but not being an expert in this area, you give the benefit of the doubt and take them on board and commence your briefing to them, advising all the other crew of the situation.
The UM does not respond to your briefing, nor to your calm reassuring requests to fasten his belt, or pay attention to instructions relating what to do if the masks drop/where the exits are etc. You try your hardest to find a way to communicate, nothing works. Brother and sister dont want to be a part of it and pretend hes not even there.
You raise your concerns with crew and manager, and another crew member with a bit more experience with this particular disability takes over, and gets a better response from him.
Do you accept, with you name signed below his on the paperwork, or do you speak up and offload? (keeping in mind in an emergency, you may be his only chance of survival if other crew is incapacitated or unavailable).
I'm not going to say what happened, but would be keen to hear others 'professional opinions'.
(to add complication, your airline and other local airlines have been under fire recently due to poor handling of such situations by disability organisations and the media).
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Ozangel I would not be able to tell you exactly what I would do unless I was there on the day witnessing how it was unfolding - but a suggestion I would have as a starting point is finding out if the crewmember who had experience with this particular disability could advise the rest of the crew on effective communication methods, and trialling those communication methods? I would also suggest the cabin manager/supervisor has a chat with the child's parents/gaurdian to find out if there is anything they can suggest for effective communication and reasoning with the child.
At the end of the day though, if I were not 100% satisfied that the childs inflight comfort and safety could be effectively managed by the crew, well offloading would have to be taken into consideration - obviously as a last resort, but a consideration nonetheless.
At the end of the day though, if I were not 100% satisfied that the childs inflight comfort and safety could be effectively managed by the crew, well offloading would have to be taken into consideration - obviously as a last resort, but a consideration nonetheless.
sinala1, as always, your advice is much appreciated. as you can probably imagine, the pressure to get out ontime added to the stress of the situation - it all worked out ok in the end, but its something thats been playing on my mind for a while. All advice appreciated.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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I also don't understand why the carers sat together and left him alone - even only across an aisle. The width of an aisle can be a long way away in turbulence, with an upset person who needs close support.
My airline has a policy of seating WCHR/special needs pax in the window with their carer (if they have one). However this is becoming more and more difficult to enforce quietly and discreetly as more people yell discrimination. (Thread drift) Also finding more people shouting discrimination over not being able to sit in exit row seats if they are nor fully fit, able bodied, etc. I have had a lot of arguments unfortunately about this recently. The PC lot have a lot to answer for.
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As a disabled passenger I've been told on a number of occaisions by CC that in the event of an incident I should stay in my seat until everyone else is off the aircraft, something that I pointed out that I had no intention of doing as my disability only affects me for walking long distances, not crawling through smoke, climbing out of overwing exits and the like (having done both in connection with work). When travelling on business I get sick and tired of being asked where my 'carer' is and generally being treated with much less respect than everyone else who has paid just the same for their tickets.
People who require assistance during the flight should be located with those who can provide that asssiatance, but those of us that don't shouldn't have to jump through hoops to convice people that we have the ability to look after ourselves. At least I don't have to get a certificate from my doctor that I don't 'give offence' to other passengers anymore.
Flying from Amsterdam to Moscow with KLM I was allocated a seat by the overwing exit and (quite rightly) asked to relocate (politely for a change) by the CC. All well and good so far until I and my partner were replaced by an elderly Russian couple who spoke none of the languages spoken by any of the CC!
Interesting to note that rules regarding who can sit where aren't applied to other factors that would affect survivability such as bariatric flyers, the very tired, those who have been drinking but aren't drunk enough to offload etc. I have friends and colleagues who, although technically disabled, are some of the fittest people I've met and work day to day in high physicality, high risk environments including operational front-line firefighting and law enforcement and would much rather have them by an exit than a corpulent late-middle aged 'able-bodied' person. The one-size-fits-all approach belongs to the last century.
People who require assistance during the flight should be located with those who can provide that asssiatance, but those of us that don't shouldn't have to jump through hoops to convice people that we have the ability to look after ourselves. At least I don't have to get a certificate from my doctor that I don't 'give offence' to other passengers anymore.
Flying from Amsterdam to Moscow with KLM I was allocated a seat by the overwing exit and (quite rightly) asked to relocate (politely for a change) by the CC. All well and good so far until I and my partner were replaced by an elderly Russian couple who spoke none of the languages spoken by any of the CC!
Interesting to note that rules regarding who can sit where aren't applied to other factors that would affect survivability such as bariatric flyers, the very tired, those who have been drinking but aren't drunk enough to offload etc. I have friends and colleagues who, although technically disabled, are some of the fittest people I've met and work day to day in high physicality, high risk environments including operational front-line firefighting and law enforcement and would much rather have them by an exit than a corpulent late-middle aged 'able-bodied' person. The one-size-fits-all approach belongs to the last century.