Question from an outsider
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Fairview
Question from an outsider
Greetings. I would like to ask a question of this group as you possess the expertise to give the best answer.
I am in not in any way involved in the commercial airline industry, and am only here because I am seeking an answer to my question. If this reason is out of line with this board, please tell me and i will bow out and exit.
The question is related to the events of 9/11, but the way I wish to pose it does not concern those events specifically, but came out of a discussion of someone's hypothesis of what had happened with AA77, the Pentagon plane.
A little background here - there are some in this country who believe that the events of that day were contrived out of a USA government-led conspiracy. Personnally, I do not believe that, and this question is not to provoke a discussion of which side to blame.
The side that believes it was a USA government-led conspiracy have varying viewpoints among themselves. There is one belief that no plane ever hit the Pentagon at all, that it was a missile strike, and another belief holds that AA77 did crash into the Pentagon resulting in the loss of life of everyone on board, but that it was a pilotless drone.
This is where I wish to focus my question. In your experiences as cabin crew and in the security level of 2001, do any of you feel it is possible, even remotely possible, that even if such an airliner could have been rigged to fly pilotlessly, could it have become airborne without the knowledge of the other crew onboard?
That hypothesis implies that the government willingly sent the paying passengers to their deaths, but I cannot see how it accounts for the cabin crew.
1. No one is going to volunteer to die in a plane crash.
2. As a paying passenger, I would not know whether the cockpit was manned or not, but I would not be content to board and sit on a plane that had no visible cabin crew.
Surely within the normal procedure there must be some direct communication between the cockpit and the cabin crew at least to just make sure "everyone's on board and the door is closed" prior to actually taking off.
Of course there are many other factors that will pop into your mind about the scenario I have presented, such as the ATC's, and other airline personnel that assist in boarding, but ignore that for the moment - assume they have been "paid off" by the government to look the other way.
The question again is, also assuming that no cabin crew voluntarily went to their deaths that day, could an entire cabin crew have been duped like the paying passengers into flying off in a pilotless plane?
I am in not in any way involved in the commercial airline industry, and am only here because I am seeking an answer to my question. If this reason is out of line with this board, please tell me and i will bow out and exit.
The question is related to the events of 9/11, but the way I wish to pose it does not concern those events specifically, but came out of a discussion of someone's hypothesis of what had happened with AA77, the Pentagon plane.
A little background here - there are some in this country who believe that the events of that day were contrived out of a USA government-led conspiracy. Personnally, I do not believe that, and this question is not to provoke a discussion of which side to blame.
The side that believes it was a USA government-led conspiracy have varying viewpoints among themselves. There is one belief that no plane ever hit the Pentagon at all, that it was a missile strike, and another belief holds that AA77 did crash into the Pentagon resulting in the loss of life of everyone on board, but that it was a pilotless drone.
This is where I wish to focus my question. In your experiences as cabin crew and in the security level of 2001, do any of you feel it is possible, even remotely possible, that even if such an airliner could have been rigged to fly pilotlessly, could it have become airborne without the knowledge of the other crew onboard?
That hypothesis implies that the government willingly sent the paying passengers to their deaths, but I cannot see how it accounts for the cabin crew.
1. No one is going to volunteer to die in a plane crash.
2. As a paying passenger, I would not know whether the cockpit was manned or not, but I would not be content to board and sit on a plane that had no visible cabin crew.
Surely within the normal procedure there must be some direct communication between the cockpit and the cabin crew at least to just make sure "everyone's on board and the door is closed" prior to actually taking off.
Of course there are many other factors that will pop into your mind about the scenario I have presented, such as the ATC's, and other airline personnel that assist in boarding, but ignore that for the moment - assume they have been "paid off" by the government to look the other way.
The question again is, also assuming that no cabin crew voluntarily went to their deaths that day, could an entire cabin crew have been duped like the paying passengers into flying off in a pilotless plane?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
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From: Fairview
Thanks to both of you for your responses. Would I be pressing you to give me a brief example of procedure that involves cabin crew and cockpit communication/contact prior to takeoff? I am discussing this with someone who made the claim (actually he claims that all 4 planes that day were "drones") and it was immediately obvious that he had not checked out the procedure with any flight crew personnel.
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: LGW
We talk - that should be sufficient!
I am not going into any detail regarding communication procedures with the pilots prior to take off. The pilots are onboard the aircraft or it is going nowhere!
What a silly thread!
I am not going into any detail regarding communication procedures with the pilots prior to take off. The pilots are onboard the aircraft or it is going nowhere!
What a silly thread!
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: UK
taters - i think we would quite possibly lose our jobs if we disclosed information such as that!! what you are asking actually sounds quite dodgy, so I think maybe you should just accept that your (or whoever's) 'theory' is totally and utterly unplausible, and leave it at that. you are kind of sounding a bit like a terrorist yourself!! although i am sure you are innocent enough!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
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From: Fairview
Sorry to have offended anyone here, and, no, it was not my theory. I was of the persuasion from the beginning that it was procedurally impossible to effect such an event, but unfortunately, there are many - too many - of our countrymen here in the USA and others abroad that do believe in such claims, and that percentage increases daily. These "truthers" tend to believe the first thing that tickles their ears and I did not want to be guilty of the same offense that they commit which is to not try to check out or verify those claims in a logical way. I realize that the premise of this thread sounded silly on the surface even to me, someone not in the industry, and obviously even more silly to those of you here who are. All of your responses have been helpful to confirm my position, and I will now bow out and exit as I promised, and should any mod feel moved to close the thread, my vote is with you. Goodnight all.
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Above 5L
Although some pilots do have personalities like drones, I can assure you that I would be able to tell the difference between a drone and the real thing.
I think it would be very hard for a robot to make it from the crew room, through security, onto the crew bus, onto the a/c and into the flight deck, all in full view of the rest of the crew. Now I will say I have flown with a few crew who not exactly what you would call the brightest people in the world, but have confidence in their robot spotting abilities.
I think it would be very hard for a robot to make it from the crew room, through security, onto the crew bus, onto the a/c and into the flight deck, all in full view of the rest of the crew. Now I will say I have flown with a few crew who not exactly what you would call the brightest people in the world, but have confidence in their robot spotting abilities.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Australia
most airline crews start the day and work the entire day as a 'crew' which includes everything from arriving at the aircraft to generally leaving the plane at the end of the day together. there is no way in hell i would even start boarding a flight without seeing if we even had pilots (crew always look for a good reason to cancel the flight and go home.. lack of tech crew is a big one haha)
tell your friend its impossible. this industry is not only highly regulated, but built on a big communication platform which is put in place to prevent accidents. perhaps on a train, crew could get on and not need to know there is a driver or not.. a plane is a different story. The tech crew are part of the crew and we do communicate alot. there is no way in hell this is remotely possible.
tell your friend its impossible. this industry is not only highly regulated, but built on a big communication platform which is put in place to prevent accidents. perhaps on a train, crew could get on and not need to know there is a driver or not.. a plane is a different story. The tech crew are part of the crew and we do communicate alot. there is no way in hell this is remotely possible.
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: over the rainbow
Taters,
Just reading your posts and the questions you are asking.....
I would have to agree with vodkaholic, the questions and the picture you are painting does sound rather dodgy. Why on earth would you ask such questions?? I would like to think that no one would be stupid enough to disclose company procedures on this forum.
Maybe your questions are innocent, but I would suggest move on from this topic.
It is a totally ridiculous to think that the aircraft could take off without pilots.
Just reading your posts and the questions you are asking.....
I would have to agree with vodkaholic, the questions and the picture you are painting does sound rather dodgy. Why on earth would you ask such questions?? I would like to think that no one would be stupid enough to disclose company procedures on this forum.
Maybe your questions are innocent, but I would suggest move on from this topic.
It is a totally ridiculous to think that the aircraft could take off without pilots.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: The Winchester
No, No, keep it (the thread) open, we are not MI5 or the SAS, nothing sensitive is being compromised here and if the thread is shut down the conspiracy nutters have won again (" see, they shut the thread down, something odd must have happened").
taters - this theory won't fly for all the reasons already given and more-I could start with the technical difficulties in just taxiing an unpiloted aircraft around a busy airport without anyone noticing the lack of folks up front but ShesGreatinTheGalley had the best counter in one: in the course of their work crew talk to each other, and even, on occasions, Cabin Crew talk to the pilots and vice versa. And as was said, lack of Tech crew would be strictly a "no go" item.
taters - this theory won't fly for all the reasons already given and more-I could start with the technical difficulties in just taxiing an unpiloted aircraft around a busy airport without anyone noticing the lack of folks up front but ShesGreatinTheGalley had the best counter in one: in the course of their work crew talk to each other, and even, on occasions, Cabin Crew talk to the pilots and vice versa. And as was said, lack of Tech crew would be strictly a "no go" item.
