Fat Pax
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Fat Pax
An article just published in the Sydney Morning Herald.
Your thoughts, vallued colleagues??
Overweight man sues Air France over seat row
Email Print Normal font Large font December 21, 2006 - 2:54PM
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AdvertisementAn overweight passenger has sued Air France after being told he was too fat and had to pay for a second seat to accommodate his bulk.
Jean-Jacques Jauffret, a French scriptwriter, told Reuters on Wednesday he had felt humiliated by Air France staff who had measured his waist in public at New Dehli airport in 2005 and decided he was too big for a single seat.
A lawyer representing Air France told a court on Tuesday the company had a clear policy of asking obese passengers to pay for two seats.
"Let's be objective. This man is fat," lawyer Fernand Gamault told the court in Bobigny, according to Le Parisien newspaper. "He barely fits on the courtroom chair. How could he sit in an airplane?"
Gamault was not available for comment but Jauffret confirmed the lawyer's comments and said he was denounced as "fat" and "enormous" on countless occasions during the hearing.
"I felt shocked and humiliated by what he said," Jauffret added.
Jauffret said he weighed more than 160 kilos (352.7 lb) and said he had flown numerous times, including on other Air France flights, without ever being asked to pay more.
Air France's website urges overweight passengers to reserve a second seat, adding that failure to do so might mean they are refused access to an aircraft if it is fully booked.
Jauffret has asked for 8,000 euros ($10,580) in damages and 500 euros reimbursement for the cost of the additional ticket. A verdict in the case is due on Feb. 20.
Reuters
Your thoughts, vallued colleagues??
Overweight man sues Air France over seat row
Email Print Normal font Large font December 21, 2006 - 2:54PM
Advertisement
AdvertisementAn overweight passenger has sued Air France after being told he was too fat and had to pay for a second seat to accommodate his bulk.
Jean-Jacques Jauffret, a French scriptwriter, told Reuters on Wednesday he had felt humiliated by Air France staff who had measured his waist in public at New Dehli airport in 2005 and decided he was too big for a single seat.
A lawyer representing Air France told a court on Tuesday the company had a clear policy of asking obese passengers to pay for two seats.
"Let's be objective. This man is fat," lawyer Fernand Gamault told the court in Bobigny, according to Le Parisien newspaper. "He barely fits on the courtroom chair. How could he sit in an airplane?"
Gamault was not available for comment but Jauffret confirmed the lawyer's comments and said he was denounced as "fat" and "enormous" on countless occasions during the hearing.
"I felt shocked and humiliated by what he said," Jauffret added.
Jauffret said he weighed more than 160 kilos (352.7 lb) and said he had flown numerous times, including on other Air France flights, without ever being asked to pay more.
Air France's website urges overweight passengers to reserve a second seat, adding that failure to do so might mean they are refused access to an aircraft if it is fully booked.
Jauffret has asked for 8,000 euros ($10,580) in damages and 500 euros reimbursement for the cost of the additional ticket. A verdict in the case is due on Feb. 20.
Reuters
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People dont gain massive amounts of weight between the time they book their ticket and the time it comes to fly... (unless its a 6 month in advance booking! 
). Whilst I have utmost sympathy and compassion for those of larger stature and their needs, its not fair on pax around them to have to deal with something that is not their fault (although I do acknowledge that wieght problems can be medically induced).
Southwest has a good policy regarding "Customers of Size" here http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html. This bit is a interesting definition:
From what I can tell pax are required to purchase an extra seat, and if the flight does not sell out they are entitled to a refund of that seat. I think thats a very fair policy and one I would like to see implemented at more airlines. I believe they only get charged a child fare for the 2nd seat?
There are times when you get "customers of size" who feel they have every right to demand an extra seat as they take up more room... sorry folks but you get what you pay for (and that includes those next to you - they pay for a seat so they are entitled to it).
By the way I am not lacking compassion or understanding here, but its something that needs to be proactively dealt with by both pax and airlines.
). Whilst I have utmost sympathy and compassion for those of larger stature and their needs, its not fair on pax around them to have to deal with something that is not their fault (although I do acknowledge that wieght problems can be medically induced).Southwest has a good policy regarding "Customers of Size" here http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html. This bit is a interesting definition:
What is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size?
The armrest is the definitive gauge, as it serves as the boundary between seats. Customers who are unable to lower the armrests (the definitive boundary between seats) and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed during initial reservations.
The armrest is the definitive gauge, as it serves as the boundary between seats. Customers who are unable to lower the armrests (the definitive boundary between seats) and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed during initial reservations.
There are times when you get "customers of size" who feel they have every right to demand an extra seat as they take up more room... sorry folks but you get what you pay for (and that includes those next to you - they pay for a seat so they are entitled to it).
By the way I am not lacking compassion or understanding here, but its something that needs to be proactively dealt with by both pax and airlines.
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I have often thought that too - I pay for a square area of space which nobody else has the right to infringe, though they often do. Though, to be fair, those of 'excessive largeur' are often aware of their problem and will be deferential and anxious not to disaccommodate so far as they are able.
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I htink the SOuthwest policy is a fair one. WHile I feel for people who cannot help/control their size for medical reasons, it stands to logic that if I were not 'comfortable' on a plane, I could not say, put my feet over onto the next pax's lap to give myself more room (extreme but I'm sure you'll see my point) as it would not be fair as they have paid for, and are therefore entitled to, that space.
I think the same applies to my seat. I have paid for it, so I do not want some 'person of size' spilling over onto me/my seat while they sleep, thus depriving me of MY room and comfort. I do appreciate the ones who try not to take up more room than they can, but perhaps this would be the way to go for the airlines. Maybe for those who have medical conditions and are genuinely 'large' for that reason could have a card entitling them to some sort of rebate.. maybe then would encourage those who are big through poor lifestyle to either re-think travelling by air or makes some positive changes to their lifestyle...
I do agree though, that this matter should be dealt with tactfully by airline staff... measuring him at check in is probably a bit too much. Would have been nicer perhaps to have taken him to a private area and explain the situation... or have a 'test seat' for people to check whether they require to purchase another (reduced rate) seat??
I think the same applies to my seat. I have paid for it, so I do not want some 'person of size' spilling over onto me/my seat while they sleep, thus depriving me of MY room and comfort. I do appreciate the ones who try not to take up more room than they can, but perhaps this would be the way to go for the airlines. Maybe for those who have medical conditions and are genuinely 'large' for that reason could have a card entitling them to some sort of rebate.. maybe then would encourage those who are big through poor lifestyle to either re-think travelling by air or makes some positive changes to their lifestyle...
I do agree though, that this matter should be dealt with tactfully by airline staff... measuring him at check in is probably a bit too much. Would have been nicer perhaps to have taken him to a private area and explain the situation... or have a 'test seat' for people to check whether they require to purchase another (reduced rate) seat??
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Too true. Obesity, no doubt following the American model, is set to be the scourge of the NHS in the UK, and the rest of us (while grateful for our continued health) will end up paying. We all have our pet foibles and would no doubt all like to indulge in more food, drink, sex, drugs, gambling, etc etc than is good for us; while most of these will interfere with our jobs, families etc overeating is a relatively easy way of 'opting out' of a responsible lifestyle. Let the airlines take the lead in declaring that this really isn't good enough and that the unilateral umbrella of political correctness will NOt be extended on these occasions.
I notice there is no 9th Beatitude in the New Testament - "Blessed are the fat, for we really love the greedy sods deep down and think they're all cuddly and cute, even though they're a waste of space and drain all our resources needlessly ..."
I notice there is no 9th Beatitude in the New Testament - "Blessed are the fat, for we really love the greedy sods deep down and think they're all cuddly and cute, even though they're a waste of space and drain all our resources needlessly ..."
This is all fine and dandy, should the pax be a fatty, how about however, if they are just very tall or muscular? (larger than the norm)
Should these passengers be considered fatties...through a pure genetic fluke?
Should these passengers be considered fatties...through a pure genetic fluke?
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MonarchMan my understanding of the policy was that the Armrest is used as the definitive guide - its not often (ever? not that I have seen anyway) that a tall/muscular person would have difficulty lowering the armrest.
It does get a bit squishy if you have, for example, a footy team onboard and all the lads are fairly big guys. Same as with any "persons of size", we do what we can to help make them more comfortable, but I still don't believe that any one person is entitled to take up more space than what they have paid for.
I myself am quite tall and when I don't have a spare seat next to me it usually makes for a rather uncomfortable flight - but I get what I pay for. I generally try to get an aisle seat if I can, that way at least I have a smidgen of extra room.
It does get a bit squishy if you have, for example, a footy team onboard and all the lads are fairly big guys. Same as with any "persons of size", we do what we can to help make them more comfortable, but I still don't believe that any one person is entitled to take up more space than what they have paid for.
I myself am quite tall and when I don't have a spare seat next to me it usually makes for a rather uncomfortable flight - but I get what I pay for. I generally try to get an aisle seat if I can, that way at least I have a smidgen of extra room.
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Remember the days when anything went with regards to baggage? Then restrictions were brought in on the dimensions and weights of suitcases. In the last few years the allowable weights have been reduced and the excess baggage charges have gone through the roof. This is because it is the weight (and excess volume) that is driving cost to the airline.
How long before we start pricing tickets by pax weight?
"Excuse me sir, did you pack your suitcase yourself? Great! Could you just step on these scales here and we will get you checked in..... Uhmmm I see you are over the no-charge weight .... if you read the fine print on your ticket you will understand that I have to charge you an excess weight fee of $$$$$. Thank you for flying with ( ) Airlines. Have a nice day!"
Or maybe they will just have a size seat at check in: your cabin baggage has to fit in here - and you have to fit in here! Whoops - there is overflow; that'll cost you!
How long before we start pricing tickets by pax weight?
"Excuse me sir, did you pack your suitcase yourself? Great! Could you just step on these scales here and we will get you checked in..... Uhmmm I see you are over the no-charge weight .... if you read the fine print on your ticket you will understand that I have to charge you an excess weight fee of $$$$$. Thank you for flying with ( ) Airlines. Have a nice day!"
Or maybe they will just have a size seat at check in: your cabin baggage has to fit in here - and you have to fit in here! Whoops - there is overflow; that'll cost you!
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Excuse me sir, did you pack your suitcase yourself? Great! Could you just step on these scales here and we will get you checked in.....
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Body Builders
You don't have to be fat, to encroach on someone's personal space!
Earlier this year I was on a flight from BKK-SYD (9 hours), next to the biggest man i have ever seen in my life. He was not fat, but really well built, and he was about 7 foot tall. His bum was not that big, as with most body builders, so no problem in getting in and out of the seat, but his upper body was about twice the width of the seat. I had 9 hours of a bicep the size of a watermelon next to my face! He definately needed two seats! Or should perhaps save the money he spends on steroids
, and use it to buy a business class ticket!
Earlier this year I was on a flight from BKK-SYD (9 hours), next to the biggest man i have ever seen in my life. He was not fat, but really well built, and he was about 7 foot tall. His bum was not that big, as with most body builders, so no problem in getting in and out of the seat, but his upper body was about twice the width of the seat. I had 9 hours of a bicep the size of a watermelon next to my face! He definately needed two seats! Or should perhaps save the money he spends on steroids
, and use it to buy a business class ticket!
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Weight plays a very important factor. I recently came accross an article about Chinese airlines where they have had to increase the "estimated" weight of pax due to the increase of obesity in that country. I wish I could find the article, it was really interesting. Although we don't acually weigh pax, weight and balance is estimated on the amount of pax we carry. The odd larger person certainly wont make a difference but with many airlines you do now pay for space. Premium economy is an example, although the service may be the same, you pay for the luxury of the extra room without having to pay the price of a business class fare. But saying that the seats are the same just more leg room so that doesn't resolve the arm rest issue. This is a tricky one, and one I have never come accross. All of the larger pax I have dealt with have just accepted the fact or they have booked Business class. I can see cases of discrimination happening. I remember a guy who complained because although his life jacket was under the seat he could not reach it due to his size, he phyisically could not reach it. Where do we draw the line? Obviously without trying to discriminate we are going to have to adopt a policy for these people. Does any airline have one?
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People should buy an allowance with their seat, say 120kg. If you weigh 80kg you can take 40kg luggage. If you weigh 120kg, no luggage or pay excess, and if you weigh 130kg you pay excess baggage on your own weight. This would make it fairer for all and encourage fat pax to pay for business class, where they might get 200kg allowance, so no excess to pay for their own weight.
Passport could contain info on weight, or ID card when we get them.
Passport could contain info on weight, or ID card when we get them.
