FA's have it easier nowadays?

[Juud]

CHIVILCOI, there were two ways in which one could interpret your original posts. Flyblue and I both chose to understand that you were someone with a genuine question. Someone who was interested to know the difference between now and way-back-when.

Because we both care for our passengers and love the job we do, we spent considerable time giving you our views and the facts as we know them to be in our airlines. All that to give you, our honoured passenger, a better insight in what happens behindteh scenes, and the reasons WHY it happens.

And then, in post 16, you show your true colours.

gosh - they've never had it so good and they still have a bit of a moan.

You are not interested at all in what FAs have to say, you have come on here to let us know what YOU think are the facts, and to roll your eyes at 'us' moaning.
You Sir, have been a waste of everybody's time here.
Such is your privilige, and we'll still be polite to you.
But your duplicity does you little credit.

Rwy in Sight, roughly speaking, the more time zones you cross, the higher the fatigue. Consequently, North-South flights are easier on the mind and the body that East-West or vice versa.

Mandatory rest periods are subject both to national laws and to labour agreements. (see my first post) In my company for example, we do not have the right to rest horizontally if the flight is shorter than 11hrs 30 mins.
Between 8 hours and 11hrs 30 mins, the CC has to be given the opportunity to eat, but not to rest.
So we can easily go 15.30 hours with no break.

Not the kind of hours you normally find in ground based jobs.
As ozangel says, you gotta love this job!

[CHIVILCOY]

Judd,
Humble apologies, please forgive me but it was not meant to be taken seriously.I appreciate the work all you FA's do to make the PAX's journey enjoyable and safe.Your answers were all very informative and appreciated and when I fly again in a couple of weeks time I shall look upon the FA's job in a different light.

My tail is set firmly between my legs.

[roamingwolf]

Anyone who has flown 20 to 30 years will be able to tell you that todays flying is exponentially harder than it was back in the 70's and 80's.

[HoHum]

Harder or easier?

I would like to add my two cents worth to this forum, if I am permitted without being crucified for my input.

All previous posts ring true and have merit to all mentioned re: jeglag, rest periods and duty times.

Another aspect that needs to be included is that not every day is the same for crew. Some days with full flights, crew just don't get the chance to stop. I had a MAN - AUH flight where as CM , on the 6hours and 40 mins of the flight I did not take a 5 minute break, eat properly, do anything other than paperwork or even got to the toilet - literally!!
(I am sure my neighbours were worried about the groans of pleasure coming from my apartment once I finally got home and had a pee!!!!! )

The crew were similarly kept busy with a full flight with service drinks etc, and to add on top - IFE problems.
The passengers acknowledged this by stopping me through the flight and complimenting my crew for doing all that they could to help and make the journey as wonderful as they had - even going to say that they noticed the crew had not stopped once during the flight and were so friendly and helpful!!
So, for us crew, add wake-up call, trip to airport, briefing, boarding etc, the flight itself, the disembarkation and the sign off times and the day does become very long and tiring. And we always try and keep a smile on faces!

For those not in the know - I ask you (without malice)- can you go to your place of employment each day, and work for 8 hours without decent food or time to stop, no rest breaks, and put in a productive day?

Airlines these days, as mentioned, know how to work their crews' to the maximum allowed (to assist in keeping airfares low) . So the next duty a crew member might have a slightly lighter workload/ demand and may "relax a bit more." I am not saying that they sit with their feet up , but simply maintain the standard of service required. It's unfortunately a human nature thing which I am sure all persons would have to admit to.

Other issues are that with IFE these days, passengers don't want to be interrupted while watching their movies/ programs and are kept entertained. There is no point in crew continually walking up and down the aisle every minute disturbing passengers. But behind the scenes, the crew are preparing next meal services, completing bar paperwork, Customs requirements, trying to keep noise to a minimum so that guests are able to sleep and rest. And yes, we do get in a bit of "sit-down" time where we montior the cabin every few minutes with a walkthrough.

All said, though, we love our jobs and want to look after you (our passengers) to the best of our abilities. It is not that we don't want to work - we just try and consider what is in our passengers' best interests - annoy them with our constant presence - or let them be to enjoy their flight and entertainment.

[air doris]

My contract of employment states that CC are entitled to a 20min break after the first 6 hrs of "commencement of an operating flight" and another 20 mins every 4 hrs after that. However as much as we are entitled to that rest, sometimes, depending on pax loads, demands, flight times etc it is impossible to co-ordinate that unless the CSM is willing to adapt the service, cut corners or even delete some services altogether as most airlines now fly with minimum crew but are expected to provide a service that really requires more staff. My airline expects cabin service to be provided every 20 mins, even if it is only offering water, however due to the fact that toilets have to be cleaned and checked every 30 mins, paper work and order forms and bar tallying, customs forms, duty free selling, prep for next service, call lights (I can go on), sometimes there is more behind the scenes work to be done that in the end it is impossible for all crew to take that break (if we are to do everything they ask). Believe me I would rather be out in the cabin than in the galley counting bar stock and filling in forms but it must be done. When the flight is less full or not busy we can take advantage of the fact we can actually sit down and take a break. Many passengers see us going to crew rest on a 2 or 3 hr flight. Some think we only work that sector when in actual fact we have worked maybe a 6 or 7hr flight previous to that. I know very well that if ALL FA's took their rest as awarded the customers would suffer. Some FA's including myself only take my break if I feel I need to, thats why on quiet flights you may see us sitting down in the galley reading, of course we are going to take advantage of that.

Yes I do think FA's are working harder now, airlines are succumbing to passenger demands and providing a much better service which is a great thing but they are also operating with minimum crew to cut costs. Really most of us do the best we can given the conditions we have to work with.

I recently had a flight where the CSM closed all bars 1 1/2 hrs prior to landing. From a pax point of view I would be furious but don't blame us, the orders were coming in so fast and we still had all of the above work to complete before landing and if we had continued the service we would still be on the ground tallying.

We are given a task that on most flights is achievable but sometimes it is impossible (unless all crew forfeit their rest period that we are entitled to).

[CHIVILCOY]

Originally Posted by HoHum

)For those not in the know - I ask you (without malice)- can you go to your place of employment each day, and work for 8 hours without decent food or time to stop, no rest breaks, and put in a productive day? :

Well I just had to reply to this though probably unwise of me.

From leaving the house to when I get back in the evening can take nigh on twelve hours with probably 30 minutes of time to grab some lunch whilst I work at the same time.This goes on five days every week.

[sinala1]

CHIVILCOY Out of curiosity (nothing more), your profile says your are a Non-Aviation Training Advisor. Is that a field or desk based job?

The reason I ask is that a desk based job (from my experience) is far less physically tiring than a job that requires you to be standing all day (however I agree those jobs can be significantly more mentally draining!)... also alot of desk based jobs (not all) allow people to have coffee's/snacks at the ready throughout the course of the day etc

Your reference to a 12 hour day from departing home to arriving would equate to a possibly 18-20 hour day for cabin/tech crew (departure from home to arrival at hotel) for some long haul flights...

[CHIVILCOY]

Originally Posted by sinala1

CHIVILCOY Out of curiosity (nothing more), your profile says your are a Non-Aviation Training Advisor. Is that a field or desk based job?
The reason I ask is that a desk based job (from my experience) is far less physically tiring than a job that requires you to be standing all day (however I agree those jobs can be significantly more mentally draining!).

Well my job is both hands on and desk based,(teacher,mother,father,social worker,psycologist,nurse,financial advisor,mentor,outward bound instructor.....................) I work with socially excluded teenagers who tell me to F... off on a daily basis but hopefully I have some influence on them.
At least I am fortunate enough to have the choice of doing it or not and like FA's the most important part is to wear a smile. and not take life too seriously.

[flyblue]

Working in hypobaric environment (cabin altitude can be up to 800ft) is more tiring, especially on Long Haul flights, than working on the ground. This is due to the mild hypoxia (= lack of sufficient oxygen to meet the needs of body tissues, and especially the brain: the brain uses 20% of the total oxygen uptake and is very susceptible to reduction in oxygen partial pressure) caused by the decrease in pressure. The altitude higher than what is "normal" at sea level is necessary because mantaining the cabin at sea level pressure would require an exremely strong (= heavy) fuselage structure which would adversely affect weight and hence fuel economy. Aircaraft cabins are designed to maintain an altitude which gives a compromise between the physiological needs of the crew members and pax and the economy needs of the operators. The effects of hypoxia may vary between individuals, and there are factors that affect the individual's susceptibility to hypoxia in flight: time (the greater the time of exposure, the greater the effect), exercise (exercise increases the demand of oxygen), fatigue (fatigue lowers the threshold for hypoxia syntoms), smoking (smoking produces carbon monoxide wich binds to haemoglobin with a greater affinity than oxygen, thus reducing the amount of haemoglobin available for oxygen transport), and others like illness, cold and drugs/alcohol (alcohol and drugs can depress brain functions, thus reducing the tolerance of altitude) that are less of a concern for crew members (but sometimes they may be for pax).

Of course this is the very short version. The extensive one would require too long to write here, and there are a myriad of books on the subject if you are interested (CC already get the long version during their annual refresher )