Virgin Blue
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 62
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From: At 40,000 ft
Oh NZ Girl I know that feeling oh too well
Its awful, especially to be rejected from such a wonderful company as Virgin Blue/Pacific blue. I wish I could come there and give you a hug, I know there isn't anything anyone can say or do to make it better but as long as you gave it your best. I must say though how old are you? It could simply be this, they seem to like the older age group recently.
Its awful, especially to be rejected from such a wonderful company as Virgin Blue/Pacific blue. I wish I could come there and give you a hug, I know there isn't anything anyone can say or do to make it better but as long as you gave it your best. I must say though how old are you? It could simply be this, they seem to like the older age group recently.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19
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From: Auckland, New Zealand
DJ
Thanks DJTibby... I did notice that they liked the older age group - that AND the more experienced of the applicants. I'm 35 so i seem to have been ok in that respect. I dunno. A little feedback woulda been nice, and i know they don't give that, but sometimes its nice to know where you went wrong huh... Maybe they just had to cull some of the best! lol! 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 394
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From: 38,000 ft
Still waiting to see EBA at roadshows at end of Oct hopefully.
Would imagine that LH will come under another EBA/AWA as there are too many differences between the two types of flying.
Also I would expect that a seperate company under the Virgin Blue banner will look after the LH side of things. Like the way PB is set up. It just means that each company is keeping there eyes on one part of the business.
Would imagine that LH will come under another EBA/AWA as there are too many differences between the two types of flying.
Also I would expect that a seperate company under the Virgin Blue banner will look after the LH side of things. Like the way PB is set up. It just means that each company is keeping there eyes on one part of the business.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 986
Likes: 0
From: all over the shop
Originally Posted by Wirgin Blew
Would imagine that LH will come under another EBA/AWA as there are too many differences between the two types of flying
Personally, I agree with you - LH and SH are so unbelievably different that they really do need to come under seperate agreements - however thats not the message pushed at the forums I attended.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 394
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From: 38,000 ft
Anyone have any news on whats happening with the EBA. The company and FAAA have been a bit quiet on this. I doubt they can get it all sorted before the end of the year. I wonder if they will bring in the new bidding system on the 1st of Jan 07 with an exception from the FAAA?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10
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From: southern earth
VB international
one of the main reasons that we have the "international" part to our EBA was due to Pac Blue Cabin crew going sick out port. We were for a short time allowed to be called up tp operate as CC for them. If the regional does get operated by us, i have a very big doubt that the international arm will be crewed by us also. rostering would just be a night mare. also can you imagine when it came time for EPs? 737/erj/A340 or 777... i really cant imagine it. The ammount of crew required for the start up will in no way justify the training of some 1700 + cabin crew.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 986
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From: all over the shop
EBA
Well the Pilots EBA is out, and at best its apparently useful as toilet paper and thats about it. The scary thing is ours is likely to be worse than theirs as their union is stronger than ours when it comes to negotiations 
Two interesting things particularly that have come up in their EBA: Firstly, paxing sectors are not included in your rostered maximum duty hours. So, for example, as according to this table (straight from CAP371)
they could operate a 2 sector duty signing on at 0800 that could go up to 13 1/4 hours, eg BNE-PER, sit around in PER for a few hours before operating PER-BNE - and then because paxing is apparently NOT included in the Duty Times allowed on that table, be able to then pax to anywhere in the network
(this is from what the Pilots have told me by the way, I have not been able to read their full EBA proposal as yet)
Secondly, the table above is whats called Flight Duty Period, and FDP was defined to us in the Cabin Crew forums as being Sign on to Chocks On at your final destination - ie it excludes your 1/2 hour sign off time - so really, you need to add half an hour onto the duty times listed above.
I cant see our duty periods being terribly different to theirs...
It will be important that when this document does come out, people make informed and self-educated decisions, rather than believing everythign we get told in the forums.
I had an interesting interaction with a MEL based Cabin Supervisor today who basically went mental at me when I told her that so far it appears most of BNE will not sign for it. From what she was saying (in between the ranting, yelling and raving
) was that most of MEL seem to like it , but there was no fact in what she was telling me - it was all emotional diatrabe...
The key here is for people to educate themselves independently - dont listen to what the company has to say (does anyone else wonder how much this glossy advertising campaign thats in the crew room cost them? And this dvd thats apparently coming out? Would that money not be better being put into our salaries?), dont listen to what the crew have to say - only believe whats written in black and white (because the worst case scenario is what we will be able to be rostered up to) so when the time comes you can make your own educated decision.
Two interesting things particularly that have come up in their EBA: Firstly, paxing sectors are not included in your rostered maximum duty hours. So, for example, as according to this table (straight from CAP371)
they could operate a 2 sector duty signing on at 0800 that could go up to 13 1/4 hours, eg BNE-PER, sit around in PER for a few hours before operating PER-BNE - and then because paxing is apparently NOT included in the Duty Times allowed on that table, be able to then pax to anywhere in the network
(this is from what the Pilots have told me by the way, I have not been able to read their full EBA proposal as yet)Secondly, the table above is whats called Flight Duty Period, and FDP was defined to us in the Cabin Crew forums as being Sign on to Chocks On at your final destination - ie it excludes your 1/2 hour sign off time - so really, you need to add half an hour onto the duty times listed above.
I cant see our duty periods being terribly different to theirs...
It will be important that when this document does come out, people make informed and self-educated decisions, rather than believing everythign we get told in the forums.
I had an interesting interaction with a MEL based Cabin Supervisor today who basically went mental at me when I told her that so far it appears most of BNE will not sign for it. From what she was saying (in between the ranting, yelling and raving
) was that most of MEL seem to like it , but there was no fact in what she was telling me - it was all emotional diatrabe...The key here is for people to educate themselves independently - dont listen to what the company has to say (does anyone else wonder how much this glossy advertising campaign thats in the crew room cost them? And this dvd thats apparently coming out? Would that money not be better being put into our salaries?), dont listen to what the crew have to say - only believe whats written in black and white (because the worst case scenario is what we will be able to be rostered up to) so when the time comes you can make your own educated decision.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 35
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From: Melb, Oz.
Sinala, as someone who has now had time to read and digest the flight crew EBA document and who has/had a fairly moderate and open minded view of proceedings and negotiations to this point, I was shocked and dismayed with what was offered. It has more holes in it than James Reasons Swiss Cheese! I have not spoken to any pilot so far who will vote yes to this document (but I'm sure there will be some!). On VB's pilots website a straw poll has shown an overwhelming "No" vote so far from the pilot body (95%). If your document is anything like this be very sure as many CC read and understand it's implications as possible. Half way through the negotiations I was actually positive and encouraged by what we had been told would be in the document. When I actually read it, it was nothing like it. Int flying has been taken off the table as a guarantee. The glossy brochures and posters around the crew rooms are all very nice and touchy feely but did any cc stop and think "Why are the flight crew not getting these pretty posters to help them vote yes??" It takes a lot more than that and I hope that the word gets out to all of the relatively new cc to sit down read and know the document and it's implications for the next five (that's right FIVE ) years that you will have to work with this EBA if it is voted in. Hope to catch u for a beer round the traps and some discussion on this.
) years that you will have to work with this EBA if it is voted in. Hope to catch u for a beer round the traps and some discussion on this.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 986
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From: all over the shop
Yes Sked I agree with you on pretty much all your points there. If the company is willing to spend this much money on an advertising campaign to get the EBA voted In, then what is it going to save them by having the EBA in place?
From what I *have* read of your document, well its an insult to say the least. Effectively no payrise (3% per year for the first 3 years - 3% is currently less than CPI); a 5 year EBA thats *not* backdated - so effectively it will have been almost 7 years between the expiration of your current agreement and the expiry of this new one; restrictions on the amount of movement that will be allowed for you in the company (for those who don't know, effectively F/O's are allowed only 2 'moves' whilst they are with VB - their first 'move' MUST be an upgrade to Captain, and the second move (which could be across to the Embraer for example) is the final 'move' they are allowed until they have been with the company for 15 years). Captains are only allowed *one* move - so if they were to go from being a Captain on the 737 across to an F/O on the Embraer - too bad, thats where they stay forever more or less!
The sad thing is if you were promised a whole pile of things during negotiations ($15K and the international project both come to mind) just to have them taken away, well tell me where the level of trust lies?
PS A beer sounds great ha ha
From what I *have* read of your document, well its an insult to say the least. Effectively no payrise (3% per year for the first 3 years - 3% is currently less than CPI); a 5 year EBA thats *not* backdated - so effectively it will have been almost 7 years between the expiration of your current agreement and the expiry of this new one; restrictions on the amount of movement that will be allowed for you in the company (for those who don't know, effectively F/O's are allowed only 2 'moves' whilst they are with VB - their first 'move' MUST be an upgrade to Captain, and the second move (which could be across to the Embraer for example) is the final 'move' they are allowed until they have been with the company for 15 years). Captains are only allowed *one* move - so if they were to go from being a Captain on the 737 across to an F/O on the Embraer - too bad, thats where they stay forever more or less!
The sad thing is if you were promised a whole pile of things during negotiations ($15K and the international project both come to mind) just to have them taken away, well tell me where the level of trust lies?
PS A beer sounds great ha ha
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Perth
Any good?
Is Virgin Blue any good to work for? I have my first flight with them on December 6 to Broome, so I spose I can ask the crew as much as I can, without being annoying 
. So yeh, with that being said, I've never been on VB before, what are they like to work for, and what is a rough salary (PM if you do not wish to post if you like..). Who knows, I could see you on December 6 or 13, OR, when i get a job with VB :P.
Aaron.
. So yeh, with that being said, I've never been on VB before, what are they like to work for, and what is a rough salary (PM if you do not wish to post if you like..). Who knows, I could see you on December 6 or 13, OR, when i get a job with VB :P.Aaron.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From: 38,000 ft
I am very concerned about CC voting on the EBA atm. DM's are telling people to read the EBA and don't listen to the rumour mill. I was also told that there is no back up EBA. If we dont vote yes for this then we will stay on the current EBA, which is effectively saying if you want the new bidding system to come in then you have to vote for this.
I am also worried that most of the crew dont plan on staying around for very long so they may not even vote at all. The CC dept seems to be turning staff over at a very rapid rate which may mean a lot of new staff will vote yes because they are happy to be here and arent worried about the impact this will have on future CC employees.
Also the FAAA have spent so much time on this with the company that they are going to be telling us to vote yes as they will be happy to see the end of it for 5 years.
Lastly BG at the last AGM was effectively issued with 650,000 shares at current $1.80 price being $1,117,000.
Read the EBA, watch the DVD, asks questions and just think you might be here for another 5 years and will you be happy with the conditions presented to you???
Hmmmmm
I am also worried that most of the crew dont plan on staying around for very long so they may not even vote at all. The CC dept seems to be turning staff over at a very rapid rate which may mean a lot of new staff will vote yes because they are happy to be here and arent worried about the impact this will have on future CC employees.
Also the FAAA have spent so much time on this with the company that they are going to be telling us to vote yes as they will be happy to see the end of it for 5 years.
Lastly BG at the last AGM was effectively issued with 650,000 shares at current $1.80 price being $1,117,000.
Read the EBA, watch the DVD, asks questions and just think you might be here for another 5 years and will you be happy with the conditions presented to you???
Hmmmmm
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Melb, Oz.
Wirgin, One thing we have been told in the company forums is regardless of the vote the Kronos PBS system is coming in. Who knows, even with a no vote it might improve our bidding anyway. Let's face it, it couldn't be worse!! Just get the word out amongst the troops to look at all the clauses in the proposal and vote accordingly. If you're going to be here a while it will be 5 years 'til you get to have another go!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Is this 'Kronos' system, the system where you swip your card to log in and log off?
..if so, we currently have this at my work, and if you're more then 7mins late, you get docked 15mins pay and have to report to the managers... three strikes, and you're out!
Having said this... rest assured, I've never been late
..if so, we currently have this at my work, and if you're more then 7mins late, you get docked 15mins pay and have to report to the managers... three strikes, and you're out!
Having said this... rest assured, I've never been late
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 986
Likes: 0
From: all over the shop
No, a readers digest version of what Kronos is would be to say effectively its a Rostering, Crewing and Bidding system. A company can implement the full Kronos package or just parts of it.
Oh and something else for the Vb EBA - its important that everyone does make the effort to vote, HOWEVER if you don't vote it IS NOT automatically counted as a YES vote - I repeat, it is NOT AUTOMATICALLY COUNTED AS A YES VOTE - many many crew online seem to think this is the case....
Oh and something else for the Vb EBA - its important that everyone does make the effort to vote, HOWEVER if you don't vote it IS NOT automatically counted as a YES vote - I repeat, it is NOT AUTOMATICALLY COUNTED AS A YES VOTE - many many crew online seem to think this is the case....